Religion AND Evolution say WHAT?!?!

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] Your right, people can be Christian and believe in whatever they want. But where do we draw the line?? Being christian merely means the belief that Jesus is God and has risen from the dead. But if you were really christian, shouldn't you want to believe what Jesus believed? As in, obey him as means of showing him the love that was given to you that no other person has? Here is an EXAMPLE to help clarify: Maybe I'm a christian who wants to believe there is nothing immoral or sinful about homosexuality. Sure I could do that. But the bible specifically states in both the old testament and new testament that God finds homosexuality a disgusting sin. So am I really a christian who loves God/Jesus? Or am I Just saying I'm a christian to fool people or even worse, fool God? Get where I am going with this?imetamonster

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

No I did not mean that, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. the implication was that the amount of human suffering caused by homosexuality was actually nothing.

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] Your right, people can be Christian and believe in whatever they want. But where do we draw the line?? Being christian merely means the belief that Jesus is God and has risen from the dead. But if you were really christian, shouldn't you want to believe what Jesus believed? As in, obey him as means of showing him the love that was given to you that no other person has? Here is an EXAMPLE to help clarify: Maybe I'm a christian who wants to believe there is nothing immoral or sinful about homosexuality. Sure I could do that. But the bible specifically states in both the old testament and new testament that God finds homosexuality a disgusting sin. So am I really a christian who loves God/Jesus? Or am I Just saying I'm a christian to fool people or even worse, fool God? Get where I am going with this?imetamonster

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

Mordred19

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

No I did not mean that, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. the implication was that the amount of human suffering caused by homosexuality was actually nothing.

Oh.. Thanks for clearifying

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] EVERYONE GIVE HIM A ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!! You claim that that economy bounces back as it always done. I think its a fair to say that the reason the conomy got better was because of WW2. yup because of the world war (not sure if 1 or 2) Many historians will agree with me on that. My constant sarcastic are due to my extreme lack of sleep and just crankyness, sorry lolTheStarM4n

My basis for all of this is that without God. Crisis(s) in this world are going to get worse. If we don't look towards God's first and instead we look towards ourselves, then we start to lose. I don't remember how but we somehow got to the whole. I gave proof of this by showing many disasters that have happened to show the worlds unpleasant condition. One of them was the economy and you said the economy has hiccups. Well that doesn't disprove my hypothesis either. I'm going to go now from this debate but if you have any other questions feel free to pm me.

:lol: Wut?! That had no relevance or evidence about the economy at all, great final post, bye! ^.^

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

TheStarM4n

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

TheStarM4n

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

You just wont stop. You really know nothing on Sexuality do You?

Have you not seen studies showing how a gay persons brain is actually different then a heterosexuals?

Noone chooses to be gay.

Do youthink people want to be rejected by society? Bullied, beat up, or get killed?

yeah that sounds like a blast, doesnt it?

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"]

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

Mordred19

sorry. I mean, the word of the bible comes first, and you can't use personal observation of homosexuality in real life to judge whether or not it is immoral? have I got that right? the words of the bible trump what you see about gays it in the world?

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"] Wait i do not understand.

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

imetamonster

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] I have no idea what you just said. Could you rephrase or explain?

TheStarM4n

sorry. I mean, the word of the bible comes first, and you can't use personal observation of homosexuality in real life to judge whether or not it is immoral? have I got that right? the words of the bible trump what you see about gays it in the world?

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] I have no idea what you just said. Could you rephrase or explain?

TheStarM4n

sorry. I mean, the word of the bible comes first, and you can't use personal observation of homosexuality in real life to judge whether or not it is immoral? have I got that right? the words of the bible trump what you see about gays it in the world?

Gays also have a stereo-type of being very sweet people.

Alot of girls love to be with gay men because how caring they are.

I could say some christian stereotypes but im not here to fight I will defend homosexuals. Always

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] Well like you mentioned before, the multiple tragedies that happen like homosexual suicides. You could argue that if the person did not decide to become homosexual in the first place then these tragedies in those certain peoples' lives could have been avoided. I do understand that some people are homosexual because of things like rape but it still doesn't justify itTheStarM4n

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"] Wait i do not understand.

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

imetamonster

You just wont stop. You really know nothing on Sexuality do You?

Have you not seen studies showing how a gay persons brain is actually different then a heterosexuals?

Noone chooses to be gay.

Do youthink people want to be rejected by society? Bullied, beat up, or get killed?

yeah that sounds like a blast, doesnt it?

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] Well like you mentioned before, the multiple tragedies that happen like homosexual suicides. You could argue that if the person did not decide to become homosexual in the first place then these tragedies in those certain peoples' lives could have been avoided. I do understand that some people are homosexual because of things like rape but it still doesn't justify itTheStarM4n

You just wont stop. You really know nothing on Sexuality do You?

Have you not seen studies showing how a gay persons brain is actually different then a heterosexuals?

Noone chooses to be gay.

Do youthink people want to be rejected by society? Bullied, beat up, or get killed?

yeah that sounds like a blast, doesnt it?

I'm a Christian who believes evolution is the process that God used to create life on this Earth.

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"]

You just wont stop. You really know nothing on Sexuality do You?

Have you not seen studies showing how a gay persons brain is actually different then a heterosexuals?

Noone chooses to be gay.

Do youthink people want to be rejected by society? Bullied, beat up, or get killed?

yeah that sounds like a blast, doesnt it?

chaoscougar1

Guess we have something in common lmao

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] Well like you mentioned before, the multiple tragedies that happen like homosexual suicides. You could argue that if the person did not decide to become homosexual in the first place then these tragedies in those certain peoples' lives could have been avoided. I do understand that some people are homosexual because of things like rape but it still doesn't justify itTheStarM4n

You just wont stop. You really know nothing on Sexuality do You?

Have you not seen studies showing how a gay persons brain is actually different then a heterosexuals?

Noone chooses to be gay.

Do youthink people want to be rejected by society? Bullied, beat up, or get killed?

yeah that sounds like a blast, doesnt it?

I knew i was gay long before i even knew what being gay meant.

I also remember always trying to like girls. Waaaay before i even witnessed any information on sexuality.

Its who i am.

And ya know what? I love who i am.

Also, why do some Atheists seem to be annoyed that Christians leave out the barbaric parts? Shouldn't they be happy that Christian Churches generally try and stick to the parts that make them a better member of society? (Charity, love for thy neighbour, forgiveness etc.) It's feels like sometimes they are annoyed we don't have witchhunts and crusades anymore

chaoscougar1

Because for the most part, Christians believe their religion to be pure and holy. Yet for hundreds if not thousands of years, Christians would wage wars on nations with other religions, killing all those who refused to convert.

Then there's those who quote the bible when it fits, however if there's 10-15 other verses that contradict their point, those verses are simply "misunderstood."

Most religions dont fit with evolution. And anyone who claims that the Christian/Catholic bibles can be true, while still believing in evolution...Well they've never read the bible.

No matter how many times people refute this argument, it keeps coming back. I mean come on, it's even address in the bible.

limpbizkit818

The Bible doesn't specifically state it was six Earth days.

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"]

You just wont stop. You really know nothing on Sexuality do You?

Have you not seen studies showing how a gay persons brain is actually different then a heterosexuals?

Noone chooses to be gay.

Do youthink people want to be rejected by society? Bullied, beat up, or get killed?

yeah that sounds like a blast, doesnt it?

imetamonster

I knew i was gay long before i even knew what being gay meant.

I also remember always trying to like girls. Waaaay before i even witnessed any information on sexuality.

Its who i am.

And ya know what? I love who i am.

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

No matter how many times people refute this argument, it keeps coming back. I mean come on, it's even address in the bible.

Vesica_Prime

The Bible doesn't specifically state it was six Earth days.

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"]

Also, why do some Atheists seem to be annoyed that Christians leave out the barbaric parts? Shouldn't they be happy that Christian Churches generally try and stick to the parts that make them a better member of society? (Charity, love for thy neighbour, forgiveness etc.) It's feels like sometimes they are annoyed we don't have witchhunts and crusades anymore

Nibroc420

Because for the most part, Christians believe their religion to be pure and holy. Yet for hundreds if not thousands of years, Christians would wage wars on nations with other religions, killing all those who refused to convert.

Then there's those who quote the bible when it fits, however if there's 10-15 other verses that contradict their point, those verses are simply "misunderstood."

Most religions dont fit with evolution. And anyone who claims that the Christian/Catholic bibles can be true, while still believing in evolution...Well they've never read the bible.

Also rememberreading astudy last year that showed Athiest knew more about the bible than christians did. Thought that was funny. Its so true though

I remember my first athiest friend was a wiz on every religion pretty much

I would always try to argue with him but he just knew the bible word for word.

I got mad at him much at this time becaus i was pretty christian. I carried around a book called For jesus freaks or something...

I never read the bible though at that time haha. Yet i was so willing to defend it

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

No matter how many times people refute this argument, it keeps coming back. I mean come on, it's even address in the bible.

Nibroc420

The Bible doesn't specifically state it was six Earth days.

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"]

Also, why do some Atheists seem to be annoyed that Christians leave out the barbaric parts? Shouldn't they be happy that Christian Churches generally try and stick to the parts that make them a better member of society? (Charity, love for thy neighbour, forgiveness etc.) It's feels like sometimes they are annoyed we don't have witchhunts and crusades anymore

imetamonster

Because for the most part, Christians believe their religion to be pure and holy. Yet for hundreds if not thousands of years, Christians would wage wars on nations with other religions, killing all those who refused to convert.

Then there's those who quote the bible when it fits, however if there's 10-15 other verses that contradict their point, those verses are simply "misunderstood."

Most religions dont fit with evolution. And anyone who claims that the Christian/Catholic bibles can be true, while still believing in evolution...Well they've never read the bible.

Also remember a study last year that showed Athiest knew more about the bible then christians did. Thought tht was funny. Its s true though

my first athiest friend was a wiz on every religion pretty much

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

The Bible doesn't specifically state it was six Earth days.

Vesica_Prime

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

so the bible says, and you agree, correct? forget what anyone has observed about actual human suffering related to homosexuality?

TheStarM4n

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

homosexuality doesn't lead to suicide. it is hatred and pyschological abuse from people in society that cause the emotional turmoil in the individual that leads to depression and hoplessness. now ask WHY the people that hate homosexuals and ostracize them do that IN THE FIRST PLACE. what is is the rational justification to be against homosexuality, and to especially beat them down mentally and tell them it's their fault?

I'm trying to help people break out of this circular cycle of "it's their fault because it's their fault because it's their fault and I'm right". I talked to a street preacher who tried this same arguement and it was pathetic.

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] The bible was written by people who viewed a "day" as the same day you and i do. 24 hours. So yes, the people who wrote the bible did mean "Six Earth days"Nibroc420

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

Different planets' days could take a much longer time than the Earth for a solar day.

[QUOTE="imetamonster"]

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"] I GOT AN IDEA I think that they think that its impossible to not be homosexual because: A: they think they were born with it and its integrated and B: they try to do it without the assistance of God. They do say if you think its impossible, it becomes impossible.TheStarM4n

I knew i was gay long before i even knew what being gay meant.

I also remember always trying to like girls. Waaaay before i even witnessed any information on sexuality.

Its who i am.

And ya know what? I love who i am.

but there's no way man could be putting himself on a pedestal when saying he's the sacred creation of yahweh, made in his image.

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"] Wait i do not understand.

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

Mordred19

homosexuality doesn't lead to suicide. it is hatred and pyschological abuse from people in society that cause the emotional turmoil in the individual that leads to depression and hoplessness. now ask WHY the people that hate homosexuals and ostracize them do that IN THE FIRST PLACE. what is is the rational justification to be against homosexuality, and to especially beat them down mentally and tell them it's their fault?

I'm trying to help people break out of this circular cycle of "it's their fault because it's their fault because it's their fault and I'm right". I talked to a street preacher who tried this same arguement and it was pathetic.

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"] Wait i do not understand.

If your saying Homosexuality has caused human suffering...

Not cool dude

Mordred19

homosexuality doesn't lead to suicide. it is hatred and pyschological abuse from people in society that cause the emotional turmoil in the individual that leads to depression and hoplessness. now ask WHY the people that hate homosexuals and ostracize them do that IN THE FIRST PLACE. what is is the rational justification to be against homosexuality, and to especially beat them down mentally and tell them it's their fault?

I'm trying to help people break out of this circular cycle of "it's their fault because it's their fault because it's their fault and I'm right". I talked to a street preacher who tried this same arguement and it was pathetic.

Thank you Mordred

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"][QUOTE="imetamonster"]

I knew i was gay long before i even knew what being gay meant.

I also remember always trying to like girls. Waaaay before i even witnessed any information on sexuality.

Its who i am.

And ya know what? I love who i am.

Mordred19

but there's no way man could be putting himself on a pedestal when saying he's the sacred creation of yahweh, made in his image.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

Vesica_Prime

Different planets' days could take a much longer time than the Earth for a solar day.

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] The bible was written by people who viewed a "day" as the same day you and i do. 24 hours. So yes, the people who wrote the bible did mean "Six Earth days"Nibroc420

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

chaoscougar1

Well when God says he created light, isn't that the sun? Then he created the earth?

I swore it was you. Its 2:27 AM here. Guess i've lost it lolTheStarM4n

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Please come up with a scenario that explains how the definition of a "Day" would change? Because that's the only logical excuse you seem to be inferring.Nibroc420

Different planets' days could take a much longer time than the Earth for a solar day.

So are you suggesting that who-ever wrote genesis (a human earthling) Either 1.) Wasn't from earth. 2.) For some reason kept time based off another planet's day/night cycle? I've yet to hear anyone mean anything other than an Earth day when they say "a day" in reference to time. But you're saying that someone over 4000 years ago, knew how long another planet's day is?Nibroc420

The Torah/Bible in accordance to Judaism/Christianity is written by man through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, so God who created the universe would know about these planets.

And you know that many high ranking Jews and Christians vouch not for the literal reading of the Torah or Bible but rather interpretation?

[QUOTE="TheStarM4n"]I swore it was you. Its 2:27 AM here. Guess i've lost it lolSunsha

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Please come up with a scenario that explains how the definition of a "Day" would change? Because that's the only logical excuse you seem to be inferring.TheStarM4n

Well when God says he created light, isn't that the sun? Then he created the earth?

• Day 1 - God created light and separated the light from the darkness, calling light "day" and darkness "night."
• Day 2 - God created an expanse to separate the waters and called it "sky."
• Day 3 - God created the dry ground and gathered the waters, calling the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters "seas." On day three, God also created vegetation (plants and trees).
• Day 4 - God created the sun, moon, and the stars to give light to the earth and to govern and separate the day and the night. These would also serve as signs to mark seasons, days, and years.

• Day 5 - God created every living creature of the seas and every winged bird, blessing them to multiply and fill the waters and the sky with life.
• Day 6 - God created the animals to fill the earth. On day six, God also created man and woman (Adam and Eve) in his own image to commune with him. He blessed them and gave them every creature and the whole earth to rule over, care for, and cultivate.
• Day 7 - God had finished his work of creation and so he rested on the seventh day, blessing it and making it holy

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

Please present the verse that specifically state it was six Earth days.

chaoscougar1

When humans say "a day" or "two days" 99.99% of the time they're mentioning an earth day, not a day on saturn. If someone would like to claim that the bible's 7 day creation (or 6, depending on if you include the day of rest) is referring to any other "day" than an earth day. They're welcome to prove their far fetched theories.

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Please come up with a scenario that explains how the definition of a "Day" would change? Because that's the only logical excuse you seem to be inferring.Nibroc420

When humans say "a day" or "two days" 99.99% of the time they're mentioning an earth day, not a day on saturn. If someone would like to claim that the bible's 7 day creation (or 6, depending on if you include the day of rest) is referring to any other "day" than an earth day. They're welcome to prove their far fetched theories.

Other than the one about God creating the earth and every star in 7 days you mean? How can a world exist without an energy source such as the sun? You are essentially saying someone was sitting in the exact spot in the vacuum of space as God created a planet and sun and he just happened to have a pad and pen with him so he could jot everything down as it was occurring...yah, that seems realistic

And read my post above, Genesis is not a journal :lol:

If there was no light on earth, there would be no method of determining what is night, and what is day, it would simply be dark. Meaning no "day."

Nibroc420

Thus it can also be interpreted as a scale of time.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] Well the story of creation sort of infers that the planet earth was there before the sun. A "day" is signified the one full revolution of the earth in relation to the sun. The gravity of the sun causes the planet to rotate on its axis at a certain speed, without the sun who knows what the planet earth was rotating around (Black hole at the centre of the Milky Way maybe) which would have drastically changed the definition of a "day" due to the varying gravitational forces acting on itchaoscougar1

When humans say "a day" or "two days" 99.99% of the time they're mentioning an earth day, not a day on saturn. If someone would like to claim that the bible's 7 day creation (or 6, depending on if you include the day of rest) is referring to any other "day" than an earth day. They're welcome to prove their far fetched theories.

Other than the one about God creating the earth and every star in 7 days you mean? And read my post above, Genesis is not a journal :lol:

If you'd like to somehow prove that whoever wrote it actually meant something besides 7 earth days, you're welcome to submit proof to your claim. However until then, there's no logical reason to think otherwise.

And heck, if all we need is "faith and interpretation" than the Bible isn't referring to earth, but Xenu, and the bible was simply brought aboard in numerous different languages that all spread out into different(yet similar) religions. :roll:

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] If there was no light on earth, there would be no method of determining what is night, and what is day, it would simply be dark. Meaning no "day."

When humans say "a day" or "two days" 99.99% of the time they're mentioning an earth day, not a day on saturn. If someone would like to claim that the bible's 7 day creation (or 6, depending on if you include the day of rest) is referring to any other "day" than an earth day. They're welcome to prove their far fetched theories.

Nibroc420

Other than the one about God creating the earth and every star in 7 days you mean? And read my post above, Genesis is not a journal :lol:

If you'd like to somehow prove that whoever wrote it actually meant something besides 7 earth days, you're welcome to submit proof to your claim. However until then, there's no logical reason to think otherwise.

And heck, if all we need is "faith and interpretation" than the Bible isn't referring to earth, but Xenu, and the bible was simply brought aboard in numerous different languages that all spread out into different(yet similar) religions. :roll:

Here is my logic.

-Bible is written by humans
-In OT times, no-one would know how long a day on saturn was.
-When people say "a day" they mean "an earth day"
Because who-ever wrote genesis wasn't educated enough to understand any other day except those on earth, there's no way they'd mean anything but "an earth day" by "a day."

Thus it could also considered/interpreted as a metaphor, as you yourself said man at the time was not intelligent

If you'd like to somehow prove that whoever wrote it actually meant something besides 7 earth days, you're welcome to submit proof to your claim. However until then, there's no logical reason to think otherwise.

Again can be interpreted as metaphors.

And heck, if all we need is "faith and interpretation" than the Bible isn't referring to earth, but Xenu, and the bible was simply brought aboard in numerous different languages that all spread out into different(yet similar) religions. :roll:

I'm not saying your interpretations of the Bible is wrong, you're free to interpret it that way if you wish. If anything you're shouting down other people's interpretations and imposing that everyone should take the literal meaning of the Bible.

You know the sort of people you campaign against? You know the ones that imposed the literal meaning of the Bible on others?

Nibroc420