rock vs rap..

These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applessupermetroidfan

Not really.  You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another.  Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance.  These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads.  And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

Check The poll results , Rap FTL XDAgentA-Mi6

More like the opinions expressed on this one forum cannot dictate which genre is better because quality on this matter is entirely subjective.

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applespianist

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

Rock. Just sounds better, and actual instruments are used:roll:DJ-PRIME90

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0lt5HTzRbIk

;)

[QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applesGreatgone12

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

:lol:

That's pretty much what you can expect... just replace 'polka' with 'rap' or 'rock.' 

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applespianist

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

:lol:

That's pretty much what you can expect... just replace 'polka' with 'rap' or 'rock.'

And so in conclusion, rock is musically superior, because my boomstick and I say so. >_>

And so in conclusion, rap is musically superior, because my boomstick and I say so. >_>

----

You're right. No difference. :> 

[QUOTE="DJ-PRIME90"]Rock. Just sounds better, and actual instruments are used:roll:nickyb628

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0lt5HTzRbIk

;)

Lol.  Easiest money those string players ever made, right there. 

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applespianist

Not really.  You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another.  Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance.  These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads.  And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

Well that's your opinion music man, I'll stick to mine:P

music is the ocean, rock sinks to the bottom,eightball88

*insert generic rap-bashing comment here* 

music is the ocean, rock sinks to the bottom,eightball88

[QUOTE="eightball88"]music is the ocean, rock sinks to the bottom,Greatgone12

But the ocean has waves and sound is waves. Two differnet waves but waves nonetheless.:|

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applespianist

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

:lol:

That's pretty much what you can expect... just replace 'polka' with 'rap' or 'rock.'

Equal, end of story. Rap is music, as much as you hate it to be. Why cant we all be friends? Anyway theres couple of rappers collaberating with rock artists and making a combination of genres. 

And for all you bashing rap,  Heres a live preformance with live insturments,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0JqLj-QRAzs

Heres some other rap songs, if you say it takes no skill to make these type of skills or talents, then your just a hater

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0aL_awH7vog
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lUoUDuAPCZA

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applesquiglythegreat

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

:lol:

That's pretty much what you can expect... just replace 'polka' with 'rap' or 'rock.'

Oh snapz, did I do that? 

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

[QUOTE="eightball88"]music is the ocean, rock sinks to the bottom,supermetroidfan

But the ocean has waves and sound is waves. Two differnet waves but waves nonetheless.:|

[QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applessupermetroidfan

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

Well that's your opinion music man, I'll stick to mine:P

It's not an opinion... unless you want to make the claim that we aren't capable of distinguishing a grade 1 piece from a grade 10 piece, that is. :P

Seriously, the claim that one can't compare rap and rock just isn't true. From rhythm to harmony to form, they both employ the same musical materials that all Western music uses. Each genre has certain contextual strengths (rap music is generally better for dancing, for instance, on account of its steady and predictable beat patterns), but with respect to sophistication, the best that rock has to offer is better than the best rap has to offer. The forms are more complex, the harmony and rhythmic patterns are more diverse, and the melodies are better developed. That's not to say rock does any of these things especially well - but rock musicians do tend to use more musical devices in their compositions by comparison to rap artists. You can hear the difference quite easily - rap is much more repetitive than rock, and the repetition is caused by the limitation of the musical devices. Sometimes, you could make the argument that the music has been intentionally over-simlified, but most of the time, it's just simplistic because that's the best the composers could do with what they know about music.

So that's the Reader's Digest justification for my 'opinion.' You're welcome to try to justify yours...

The only real reason that i 'hate' rap is because theres no true skill behind rhyming words, with a beat in the background. I mean in rock theres alot of skill needed to play a guitar, a bass or drums. I mean being a guitar player my self it took me a good three years to be good enough to actually want to show people. If I really wanted to I could probably go out somwhere tommorow and rap. Again this is just my opinion.... be niceferret837

Lets see you try to duplicate the first verse in Thug Luv, rhyme, flow and everything

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7sv-nL8Vkw4 

Some rappers have no skill, yes I agree, but your giving a bad name for those who have real nice flows and talent. Listen to the whole first verse. 

Whoa, whoa, I hear you saying that classical is superior quite a few times.
quiglythegreat

Yep. But when I do, I don't argue it's superior because my boomstick and I believe it is. I provide sound rationale for the superiority of clas sical music with respect to sophistication. It's a far more creative and diverse genre than rap or rock with respect to harmony and rhythm (especially with respect to metre). Its melodies are longer and benefit from the support of the much larger harmonic palette. It is VASTLY superior with respect to the development of motives and the use of counterpoint. It is far more successful than rap or rock in employing dynamic shading and rubato to intensify emotion. And because of its complexity, and the incredible virtuosity and control of sound that has been demanded by composers for hundreds of years, it is far more difficult music to perform.

Clas sical music is far superior to rock and rap with respect to sophistication. But it's not 'better' than either of those genres unless you believe it is.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]Whoa, whoa, I hear you saying that classical is superior quite a few times.
pianist

Yep. But when I do, I don't argue it's superior because my boomstick and I believe it is. I provide sound rationale for the superiority of clas sical music with respect to sophistication. It's a far more creative and diverse genre than rap or rock with respect to harmony and rhythm (especially with respect to metre). Its melodies are longer and benefit from the support of the much larger harmonic palette. It is VASTLY superior with respect to the development of motives and the use of counterpoint. It is far more successful than rap or rock in employing dynamic shading and rubato to intensify emotion. And because of its complexity, and the incredible virtuosity and control of sound that has been demanded by composers for hundreds of years, it is far more difficult music to perform.

clas sical music is far superior to rock and rap with respect to sophistication. But it's not 'better' than either of those genres unless you believe it is.

...add in "J-Rock" to the poll options and you got my vote.

anyways, never was a fan of rap. it has naturally come to me that I don't like it. is rock any better? well, yeah. But I listen to a lot of Japanese rock, so I don't listen to much American rock. and I live in America. strange, isn't it? bottom line is that J-rock>J-pop>J-music>rock>some other stuff>rap

DEJA VU!!! THIS IS LIKE EVERY THREAD IN OT!

I mean dammit I've provided people so many links and insightful opinions and you guys stay the same. I even had the same argument with pianist which I'm not gonna go after again. All I have to say is that, again, both artists respectively have their good and bad artists, songs, and albums. Some are terrible. Some are incredible. It has nothing to do with the grade of music. And believe that, coming from a musician and music lover. 

DEJA VU!!! THIS IS LIKE EVERY THREAD IN OT!

I mean dammit I've provided people so many links and insightful opinions and you guys stay the same. I even had the same argument with pianist which I'm not gonna go after again. All I have to say is that, again, both artists respectively have their good and bad artists, songs, and albums. Some are terrible. Some are incredible. It has nothing to do with the grade of music. And believe that, coming from a musician and music lover. 

ak618

But having good artists is not important if the genre itself is not appealing to the listener. 

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"][QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]These threads are idiotic. Two very different things. Only an idiot would try to say which is better than the other. BTW oranges > applespianist

Not really. You can argue the merits of one genre in relation to another. Rap in general is inarguably more simplistic than rock in general, for instance. These threads only end up being idiotic because there are only a few of people on Gamespot with even a rudimentary understanding of music theory, and most of them don't frequent these threads. And so, they just degenerate into a collection of mindless, unsupported opinion statements.

Well that's your opinion music man, I'll stick to mine:P

It's not an opinion... unless you want to make the claim that we aren't capable of distinguishing a grade 1 piece from a grade 10 piece, that is. :P

Seriously, the claim that one can't compare rap and rock just isn't true. From rhythm to harmony to form, they both employ the same musical materials that all Western music uses. Each genre has certain contextual strengths (rap music is generally better for dancing, for instance, on account of its steady and predictable beat patterns), but with respect to sophistication, the best that rock has to offer is better than the best rap has to offer. The forms are more complex, the harmony and rhythmic patterns are more diverse, and the melodies are better developed. That's not to say rock does any of these things especially well - but rock musicians do tend to use more musical devices in their compositions by comparison to rap artists. You can hear the difference quite easily - rap is a much more repetitive than rock, and the repetition is caused by the limitation of the musical devices. Sometimes, you could make the argument that the music has been intentionally over-simlified, but most of the time, it's just simplistic because that's the best the composers could do with what they know about music.

So that's the Reader's Digest justification for my 'opinion.' You're welcome to try to justify yours...

Well anyone can compare something if they want to:P

I see what you mean when you're talking about the aspects of the music but when I say that I mean how the music is produced differntly and has an overall different sound and feel. And also the fact that the "good" rap has a lot of focus on the rappers flow and all that stuff. It just doesn't seem right to me to compare those things. Guess I should have explained what I meant from the beginning. Well that's my opinion in a nut shell.

WHat? Rap have the best clips!

I mean dammit I've provided  insightful opinions.  ak618

oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL" ....Def_Jef88

[QUOTE="Def_Jef88"]oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL" ....MattUD1

oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL"  ....Def_Jef88

Well it is the truth;)

This is what I expected to hear. And everything you say is unquestionably true. But modern lyrics make modern music interesting in ways that clasi cal music is not. Plus, the complexity is pretty intimidating to the casual listener (as in, that's why I don't listen to much clasi cal).
quiglythegreat

Lyrics are indeed what makes modern music relevant to modern listeners, but don't confuse lyrics with music. Music does not depend on lyrics to exist, nor does poetry depend on music to exist. Whether or a passage is sung with lyrics or played by an instrument, I can still analyze the use of harmony, rhythm, and so forth independently. Contemporary or relevant lyrics do nothing at all to improve the quality of music that accompanies them. An art song from the middle of the 19th century is still vastly superior musical accompaniment to text by comparison to a modern rock or rap song, whether or not you care about what the lyrics say.

Clas sical music isn't always complex. There's plenty of simple, easily understandable music in the clas sical genre. People just don't put much effort into finding it. They hear one or two pieces by Mozart, don't like the sound, and come to the erroneous conclusion that all clas sical music sounds like that. This view is understandable. For all the sub-genres of popular music that have come into existence, the music under the umbrella of these genres is still mostly similar. But clas sical music isn't like that. It's a much older genre, and has employed a wider variety of distinct cultural influences. French clas sical music sounds very different from German clas sical music, for instance. German clas sical music from the 1600s sounds very different from German clas sical music of from the 1900s. Anybody can hear that if provided with samples.

Frankly, I don't care what people listen to. I only get on their cases when they make false, baseless claims about the music they happen to like, while at the same time making false, baseless claims about the music they don't like.

[QUOTE="Def_Jef88"]oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL" ....supermetroidfan

Well it is the truth;)

Fact =/= opinion.  ;) 

[QUOTE="Def_Jef88"]oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL" ....supermetroidfan

Well it is the truth;)

[QUOTE="MattUD1"][QUOTE="Def_Jef88"]oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL" ....Def_Jef88

Because you can't stand to be away from me?  :oops: 

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]

This is what I expected to hear. And everything you say is unquestionably true. But modern lyrics make modern music interesting in ways that clasi cal music is not. Plus, the complexity is pretty intimidating to the casual listener (as in, that's why I don't listen to much clasi cal).
pianist

Lyrics are indeed what makes modern music relevant to modern listeners, but don't confuse lyrics with music. Music does not depend on lyrics to exist, nor does poetry depend on music to exist. Whether or a passage is sung with lyrics or played by an instrument, I can still analyze the use of harmony, rhythm, and so forth independently. Contemporary or relevant lyrics do nothing at all to improve the quality of music that accompanies them. An art song from the middle of the 19th century is still vastly superior musical accompaniment to text by comparison to a modern rock or rap song, whether or not you care about what the lyrics say.

Clas sical music isn't always complex. There's plenty of simple, easily understandable music in the ****cal genre. People just don't put much effort into finding it. They hear one or two pieces by Mozart, don't like the sound, and come to the erroneous conclusion that all ****cal music sounds like that. This view is understandable. For all the sub-genres of popular music that have come into existence, the music under the umbrella of these genres is still mostly similar. But ****cal music isn't like that. It's a much older genre, and has employed a wider variety of distinct cultural influences. French ****cal music sounds very different from German ****cal music, for instance. German ****cal music from the 1600s sounds very different from German clas sical music of from the 1900s. Anybody can hear that if provided with samples.

Frankly, I don't care what people listen to. I only get on their cases when they make false, baseless claims about the music they happen to like, while at the same time making false, baseless claims about the music they don't like.

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]

This is what I expected to hear. And everything you say is unquestionably true. But modern lyrics make modern music interesting in ways that clasi cal music is not. Plus, the complexity is pretty intimidating to the casual listener (as in, that's why I don't listen to much clasi cal).
quiglythegreat

Lyrics are indeed what makes modern music relevant to modern listeners, but don't confuse lyrics with music. Music does not depend on lyrics to exist, nor does poetry depend on music to exist. Whether or a passage is sung with lyrics or played by an instrument, I can still analyze the use of harmony, rhythm, and so forth independently. Contemporary or relevant lyrics do nothing at all to improve the quality of music that accompanies them. An art song from the middle of the 19th century is still vastly superior musical accompaniment to text by comparison to a modern rock or rap song, whether or not you care about what the lyrics say.

Clas sical music isn't always complex. There's plenty of simple, easily understandable music in the ****cal genre. People just don't put much effort into finding it. They hear one or two pieces by Mozart, don't like the sound, and come to the erroneous conclusion that all ****cal music sounds like that. This view is understandable. For all the sub-genres of popular music that have come into existence, the music under the umbrella of these genres is still mostly similar. But ****cal music isn't like that. It's a much older genre, and has employed a wider variety of distinct cultural influences. French ****cal music sounds very different from German ****cal music, for instance. German ****cal music from the 1600s sounds very different from German clas sical music of from the 1900s. Anybody can hear that if provided with samples.

Frankly, I don't care what people listen to. I only get on their cases when they make false, baseless claims about the music they happen to like, while at the same time making false, baseless claims about the music they don't like.

[QUOTE="ak618"]

DEJA VU!!! THIS IS LIKE EVERY THREAD IN OT!

I mean dammit I've provided people so many links and insightful opinions and you guys stay the same. I even had the same argument with pianist which I'm not gonna go after again. All I have to say is that, again, both artists respectively have their good and bad artists, songs, and albums. Some are terrible. Some are incredible. It has nothing to do with the grade of music. And believe that, coming from a musician and music lover.

LJS9502_basic

But having good artists is not important if the genre itself is not appealing to the listener.

touche, but usually these threads mean 10% say "I just like ___ better" and the other 90% go "Rock is so much better than rap, rap is crap" or vice versa. 

DEJA VU!!! THIS IS LIKE EVERY THREAD IN OT!

I mean dammit I've provided people so many links and insightful opinions and you guys stay the same. I even had the same argument with pianist which I'm not gonna go after again. All I have to say is that, again, both artists respectively have their good and bad artists, songs, and albums. Some are terrible. Some are incredible. It has nothing to do with the grade of music. And believe that, coming from a musician and music lover.

ak618

Specifically mentioning me isn't a very good way to avoid another debate.

People aren't arguing about the merits of the musicians, but about the merits of the music itself. The reason they 'stay the same' is that you are incorrect in your belief that it is impossible to compare genres, and that if you appreciate proficient rock music, you should also be able to appreciate proficient rap music. Not everyone can put their finger on why they despise certain music, but that won't stop them from despising the genre. If they had a musical vocabulary they could tell you why.

Your own arguments are not especially compelling, usually because you're trying to argue impossible positions, like that rap and rock are incomparable.

[QUOTE="supermetroidfan"]

[QUOTE="Def_Jef88"]oh boy, another topic full of idiots going "u cant spel crap without rap LOLOL" ....Def_Jef88

Well it is the truth;)

:oThen I must be seeing things differently. I take a look at rap then I take a look and crap and I clearly see r-a-p which is what spells rap. I don't know what to believe anymore:?

Of course, but it's not a crappy poem if there is no music to it. But (to me) music doesn't have to be a "musical instrument", guitar, piano, keyboard, etc. Music can include your way of speech. How you say something can be musical, to anyone. If you can nail how it sounds, it can be better than any musical piece with "musical instruments".
MattUD1