Should guns be banned in the United States?

And you just made one massive assumption, from one story, for 300 million people. Domestic (I use that term loosely) gun deaths are 2 HUNDREDTHS of a percent (.02%) per capita.

LukeAF24

What massive assumption did i make? :| I simply used an example of a person who would have been murdered not being murdered, and a guy who would have thrown his life away and ended up in prison, instead going to continue his life as a law abiding citizen.

You seem to quite happy to allow people to die when something could easily be done to prevent it, so long as the number is only a couple hundred. :| I think there's something inherently wrong in valuing your ability to shoot dear more than human life.

A month ago or so there were four gun-murders in US schools in just one week. They weren't hardcore criminals who obtained their guns illegally. They were people who were simply angry/upset/whatever who took their parents gun to school with them and ended up using it.

But if the number of people dying isn't high enough for us to care, then sure, do nothing.

[QUOTE="MythofSisyphus"]Well... places where guns are banned seem to have much much lower homicide rates... so I'm going to go with yes.Hickamie14

You're telling me the UK, France, Germany, Australia or any other developed nation for that matter isn't free? :| Do you honestly think the average american is any more "free" than anyone else living in developed countries?

Guns should be banned everywhere.

Yes, criminals will still get hold of them, but it would be much harder.

Countries that have banned guns have lower crime rates than the ones that allow guns.

I can't believe people disagree with this.

mentalabc123

[QUOTE="mentalabc123"]

I can't believe people disagree with this.

LukeAF24

Why not just light the entire Constitution and subsequent Bill of Rights on fire, and start from scratch?

There's a word for going to extremes to belittle and debase an arguement. I just cant remember what it is....

[QUOTE="mentalabc123"]

Guns should be banned everywhere.

Yes, criminals will still get hold of them, but it would be much harder.

Countries that have banned guns have lower crime rates than the ones that allow guns.

I can't believe people disagree with this.

Hickamie14

How can a democratically elected government with separate executive, legislative and judiciary as well as invidividual state governments possibly "go corrupt"? :|

Guns should be banned everywhere.

Yes, criminals will still get hold of them, but it would be much harder.

Countries that have banned guns have lower crime rates than the ones that allow guns.

I can't believe people disagree with this.

mentalabc123

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"][QUOTE="MythofSisyphus"]Well... places where guns are banned seem to have much much lower homicide rates... so I'm going to go with yes.Ninja-Hippo

You're telling me the UK, France, Germany, Australia or any other developed nation for that matter isn't free? :| Do you honestly think the average american is any more "free" than anyone else living in developed countries?

Okay meybe I went to far with the 'free' thing. But, those countries do not have the bill of rights. Like the other guy said why don't we just get rid of the bill of rights, and just have a dictatorship? The bill of rights is very important, and one like that should not be tampered with. They are there for a reason. Hickamie14

They all have their own laws outlying citizens rights. :| The UK, for example, has the Human Rights Act. I really cant stand the notion that the united states is somehow "more free" than anywhere else. I have no idea where that belief comes from but it's completely incorrect.

"In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.""

link

Okay meybe I went to far with the 'free' thing. But, those countries do not have the bill of rights. Like the other guy said why don't we just get rid of the bill of rights, and just have a dictatorship? The bill of rights is very important, and one like that should not be tampered with. They are there for a reason. Hickamie14

Also:

"Hey i think gun crime is out of control. We need to do something to control guns in this country and cut down on the number of people being murdered by these weapons."

vs

"Fine then why dont we just get rid of the bill of rights all together and live under a dictatorship!"

Do you really think that's a logical counter arguement?

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"][QUOTE="mentalabc123"]

Guns should be banned everywhere.

Yes, criminals will still get hold of them, but it would be much harder.

Countries that have banned guns have lower crime rates than the ones that allow guns.

I can't believe people disagree with this.

Ninja-Hippo

How can a democratically elected government with separate executive, legislative and judiciary as well as invidividual state governments possibly "go corrupt"? :|

Their are ways. Such as controling the media (which you could do), doing what J Edgar Hoover did and create the dossiers on most powerful people. All you need is have a few radical friend willing to put you in power. And trust me that is possible. And in any case, if it does happen-notice how I say IF- then I would like to be able to rebel.Hickamie14

That sure is likely to happen.

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Okay meybe I went to far with the 'free' thing. But, those countries do not have the bill of rights. Like the other guy said why don't we just get rid of the bill of rights, and just have a dictatorship? The bill of rights is very important, and one like that should not be tampered with. They are there for a reason. Ninja-Hippo

Also:

"Hey i think gun crime is out of control. We need to do something to control guns in this country and cut down on the number of people being murdered by these weapons."

vs

"Fine then why dont we just get rid of the bill of rights all together and live under a dictatorship!"

Do you really think that's a logical counter arguement?

"In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.""

link

Sgt_Randall

a). Owner of random pro-gun blog is not a political scientist.

b). Owner of random pro-gun blog says there is no correlation between gun control and gun crime; false. Again, look at the UK. The gun amnesty cut gun crime successfully.

c). Switzerland's standard of living is above that of the USA; and crime all-round is lower there than in the USA. It makes no sense to compare the two.

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Their are ways. Such as controling the media (which you could do), doing what J Edgar Hoover did and create the dossiers on most powerful people. All you need is have a few radical friend willing to put you in power. And trust me that is possible. And in any case, if it does happen-notice how I say IF- then I would like to be able to rebel.RK-Mara

That sure is likely to happen.

Yes I do, because it is so important that we keep the bill of rights in-tact. Hickamie14

That's not what you're saying at all. You're just going to extremes and saying "Well we should just go live under a dictatorship!"

That's not an arguement at all. That's just epic exaggeration. How is suggesting that something needs to be done to stop gun crime any where near saying we should scrap the bill of rights and regress into dictatorship? How is that a reasonable arguement?

[QUOTE="Sgt_Randall"]

"In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.""

link

Ninja-Hippo

a). Owner of random pro-gun blog is not a political scientist.

b). Owner of random pro-gun blog says there is no correlation between gun control and gun crime; false. Again, look at the UK. The gun amnesty cut gun crime successfully.

c). Switzerland's standard of living is above that of the USA; and crime all-round is lower there than in the USA. It makes no sense to compare the two.

[QUOTE="MythofSisyphus"]Well... places where guns are banned seem to have much much lower homicide rates... so I'm going to go with yes.wemhim

criminals can and will get them... it's very easy to get a mac-10...

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Their are ways. Such as controling the media (which you could do), doing what J Edgar Hoover did and create the dossiers on most powerful people. All you need is have a few radical friend willing to put you in power. And trust me that is possible. And in any case, if it does happen-notice how I say IF- then I would like to be able to rebel.RK-Mara

That sure is likely to happen.

Lololol but seriously if your country is soo prone to corruption that you yourself are soo afraid that youuu neeed a gun then whyyy do u continue to live there? your respnse is most likely to be "Teh bill of ritezz FTWW!"

Their are ways. Such as controling the media (which you could do), doing what J Edgar Hoover did and create the dossiers on most powerful people. All you need is have a few radical friend willing to put you in power. And trust me that is possible. And in any case, if it does happen-notice how I say IF- then I would like to be able to rebel.Hickamie14

Would this evil government which has suddently taken over the nation not just declare martial law, send the armed forces into cities and sweep your home making sure you dont have firearms? I mean like you said they managed to take a democratic country with a three-branch government designed specifically to make it impossible for this to happen, and did it any way; but they cant stop people picking up a hand gun?

And how exactly are you and your hand gun going to bring down this evil dictatorship anyway? :|

[QUOTE="wemhim"][QUOTE="MythofSisyphus"]Well... places where guns are banned seem to have much much lower homicide rates... so I'm going to go with yes.jlh47

criminals can and will get them... it's very easy to get a mac-10...

yeah you see when your every day joe gets a gun and has a problem and then decides to go shoot it out with his brand spankin new mac 10 that he got he kind of becomes a criminal too..

yeah you see when your every day joe gets a gun and has a problem and then decides to go shoot it out with his brand spankin new mac 10 that he got he kind of becomes a criminal too..

hurley_house

But apparently this only kills a couple thousand people a year. That number is apparently not big enough to care about, and thus we should just accept things as they are.

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Yes I do, because it is so important that we keep the bill of rights in-tact. Ninja-Hippo

That's not what you're saying at all. You're just going to extremes and saying "Well we should just go live under a dictatorship!"

That's not an arguement at all. That's just epic exaggeration. How is suggesting that something needs to be done to stop gun crime any where near saying we should scrap the bill of rights and regress into dictatorship? How is that a reasonable arguement?

Yes, I think so.

DOnt get me wrong, I love guns and shooting them is a lot of fun.

But frankly, its not the gun crime that wories me...its the accidental shootings. That, and the young gun crime. Like that gay kid that was shot in class at an Oxnard school a few days ago.

I used to be completely against banning guns, but as I see it now it is the only solution since lawmakers are too stupid to make any reasonable compromises.

You just need to way the pros against the cons of banning guns:

Pros:
-Thousands of people wont be shot accidentally
-Little kids with no concept of life-or-death wont be able to shoot up schools. I know that the effects from these shootings is "negligable" in a sense, but it is horrible for our society's image

Cons:
-People wont be able to go hunting or target shooting
-On very rare occasions, you wont be able to defend yourself.

[QUOTE="hurley_house"]

yeah you see when your every day joe gets a gun and has a problem and then decides to go shoot it out with his brand spankin new mac 10 that he got he kind of becomes a criminal too..

Ninja-Hippo

But apparently this only kills a couple thousand people a year. That number is apparently not big enough to care about, and thus we should just accept things as they are.

then i guess we should just go gang bang some hoes? fo reals dawg ;)

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Yes I do, because it is so important that we keep the bill of rights in-tact. Hickamie14

That's not what you're saying at all. You're just going to extremes and saying "Well we should just go live under a dictatorship!"

That's not an arguement at all. That's just epic exaggeration. How is suggesting that something needs to be done to stop gun crime any where near saying we should scrap the bill of rights and regress into dictatorship? How is that a reasonable arguement?

how is possesing a lethal weppon that is able to kill another life your freedom?

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"]Cocaine is illegal. Does that stop people from buying cocaine? Hell no. If you make guns illegal, you're only taking them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Criminals will still have guns.The_Game21x

That's an excellent point.

No it's not... A lot of legal gun owners end up committing crimes of rage, or the guns get into their kid's hands and cause school shootings and all kinds of street crime.

Even if the "hardcore" criminals won't be stopped, a lot of preventable crimes will be prevented (duh). I mean a lot of gun crimes are spur of the moment, unplanned things by otherwise good citizens.

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Their are ways. Such as controling the media (which you could do), doing what J Edgar Hoover did and create the dossiers on most powerful people. All you need is have a few radical friend willing to put you in power. And trust me that is possible. And in any case, if it does happen-notice how I say IF- then I would like to be able to rebel.Ninja-Hippo

Would this evil government which has suddently taken over the nation not just declare martial law, send the armed forces into cities and sweep your home making sure you dont have firearms? I mean like you said they managed to take a democratic country with a three-branch government designed specifically to make it impossible for this to happen, and did it any way; but they cant stop people picking up a hand gun?

And how exactly are you and your hand gun going to bring down this evil dictatorship anyway? :|

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="Hickamie14"]Yes I do, because it is so important that we keep the bill of rights in-tact. hurley_house

That's not what you're saying at all. You're just going to extremes and saying "Well we should just go live under a dictatorship!"

That's not an arguement at all. That's just epic exaggeration. How is suggesting that something needs to be done to stop gun crime any where near saying we should scrap the bill of rights and regress into dictatorship? How is that a reasonable arguement?

how is possesing a lethal weppon that is able to kill another life your freedom?

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"]Cocaine is illegal. Does that stop people from buying cocaine? Hell no. If you make guns illegal, you're only taking them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Criminals will still have guns.TallicaFan2005

That's an excellent point.

No it's not... A lot of legal gun owners end up committing crimes of rage, or the guns get into their kid's hands and cause school shootings and all kinds of street crime.

Even if the "hardcore" criminals won't be stopped, a lot of preventable crimes will be prevented (duh). I mean a lot of gun crimes are spur of the moment, unplanned things by otherwise good citizens.

lol if cocaine was legal alot more people would use it. simple logic ftw.

[QUOTE="TallicaFan2005"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"]Cocaine is illegal. Does that stop people from buying cocaine? Hell no. If you make guns illegal, you're only taking them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Criminals will still have guns.hurley_house

That's an excellent point.

No it's not... A lot of legal gun owners end up committing crimes of rage, or the guns get into their kid's hands and cause school shootings and all kinds of street crime.

Even if the "hardcore" criminals won't be stopped, a lot of preventable crimes will be prevented (duh). I mean a lot of gun crimes are spur of the moment, unplanned things by otherwise good citizens.

lol if cocaine was legal alot more people would use it. simple logic ftw.

umm, you pretty much just proved his point.

"If cocaine was legal, more people would use it".

If guns were illegal, less people would use them.

The less people using guns/cocaine, the less fatalities will occur as a result.

Like you said...simple logic ftw :D

I understand this whole fear of the government thing but seriously...if we did want to rebel, couldnt we just raid the nearest army base for guns? I mean not enough people have guns to call every town in the US a potential-militia, right? So it wont make that much of a difference. Not to mention that a some angry civies with scoped remington 700s would just get napalmed by the government from 2000 feet in the air.

I guess what I am saying is that the difference between 1-out-of-10 people with guns vs US Government compared to 0-out-of-10 people with guns vs US Governemnt is negligable.

Guns shouldn't be completely banned. At least hunting rifles should be still allowed and maybe hand guns with much stricter laws.RK-Mara

I agree. Although I do think handguns should be banned. Anything that is easily concealed should be hidden. But hunting rifles and shotguns should still be legal, albeit with strict regulation.

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

The_Mac_Daddy

But people with guns do it very effectively.

I wouldn't care if guns get banned.. I'll still have my fav. toy :twisted::

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

Mr_sprinkles

But people with guns do it very effectively.

and not every gun crime is due to a criminal thus when your every day joe gets a gun and decides to go shoot sumfin up he becomes a criminal too. the best option would be to make sure your every day joe coud not get a gun because quite frankly he dosent need 1 as the chances of you running into a criminal isnt like it is in Grand theft auto

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

hurley_house

But people with guns do it very effectively.

and not every gun crime is due to a criminal thus when your every day joe gets a gun and decides to go shoot sumfin up he becomes a criminal too. the best option would be to make sure your every day joe coud not get a gun because quite frankly he dosent need 1 as the chances of you running into a criminal isnt like it is in Grand theft auto

having a gun on hand has the potential to turn a drunken brawl from a broken nose and a black eye into 2nd degree murder.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

hurley_house

But people with guns do it very effectively.

and not every gun crime is due to a criminal thus when your every day joe gets a gun and decides to go shoot sumfin up he becomes a criminal too. the best option would be to make sure your every day joe coud not get a gun because quite frankly he dosent need 1 as the chances of you running into a criminal isnt like it is in Grand theft auto

That's stupid. You cannot prevent EVERYTHING. The majority of gun crime.. actually, the overwhelming majority is done by existing criminals. A very very small percentage of gun crime is first time offenders.

And not having to use your gun isn't the point. It's having the freedom to be able to protect yourself INCASE something happens. Also, it acts as a great deterant to would be criminals. People think twice before committing a crime, because they never know who is armed.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

The_Mac_Daddy

That's stupid. You cannot prevent EVERYTHING. The majority of gun crime.. actually, the overwhelming majority is done by existing criminals. A very very small percentage of gun crime is first time offenders.

And not having to use your gun isn't the point. It's having the freedom to be able to protect yourself INCASE something happens. Also, it acts as a great deterant to would be criminals. People think twice before committing a crime, because they never know who is armed.

it's obviously not a very effective deterant...

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

Mr_sprinkles

That's stupid. You cannot prevent EVERYTHING. The majority of gun crime.. actually, the overwhelming majority is done by existing criminals. A very very small percentage of gun crime is first time offenders.

And not having to use your gun isn't the point. It's having the freedom to be able to protect yourself INCASE something happens. Also, it acts as a great deterant to would be criminals. People think twice before committing a crime, because they never know who is armed.

it's obviously not a very effective deterant...

How many murders do you hear of happen to everyday citizens on the street? not many. It's usually done in retaliation, drug deals, domestic disputes, etc.

Other gun crime such as armed robbery will still happen with a ban.. perhaps even more because they see a lower risk. Citizens will be unarmed, business owners will be unarmed.

I often hear of people protecting their property with their firearms. Not to mention, people who own a gun have a better sense of security in their own homes.. because they feel if someone does try to break in or harm them, they will have a way to defend themselves.

I do hear of nightclub shootings every so often. I'm not against tighting gun laws. In some places, guns should not be allowed at all.

But, in any case, 9 times out of 10, the person who was a shooter at a night club was not a first timer to break the law. Chances are, that person already had an extensive criminal record.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

The_Mac_Daddy

That's stupid. You cannot prevent EVERYTHING. The majority of gun crime.. actually, the overwhelming majority is done by existing criminals. A very very small percentage of gun crime is first time offenders.

And not having to use your gun isn't the point. It's having the freedom to be able to protect yourself INCASE something happens. Also, it acts as a great deterant to would be criminals. People think twice before committing a crime, because they never know who is armed.

it's obviously not a very effective deterant...

How many murders do you hear of happen to everyday citizens on the street? not many. It's usually done in retaliation, drug deals, domestic disputes, etc.

Other gun crime such as armed robbery will still happen with a ban.. perhaps even more because they see a lower risk. Citizens will be unarmed, business owners will be unarmed.

I often hear of people protecting their property with their firearms. Not to mention, people who own a gun have a better sense of security in their own homes.. because they feel if someone does try to break in or harm them, they will have a way to defend themselves.

If people need a gun under their bed to feel safe in their own home its a rather poor reflection of your society, don't you think?

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

Mr_sprinkles

That's stupid. You cannot prevent EVERYTHING. The majority of gun crime.. actually, the overwhelming majority is done by existing criminals. A very very small percentage of gun crime is first time offenders.

And not having to use your gun isn't the point. It's having the freedom to be able to protect yourself INCASE something happens. Also, it acts as a great deterant to would be criminals. People think twice before committing a crime, because they never know who is armed.

it's obviously not a very effective deterant...

How many murders do you hear of happen to everyday citizens on the street? not many. It's usually done in retaliation, drug deals, domestic disputes, etc.

Other gun crime such as armed robbery will still happen with a ban.. perhaps even more because they see a lower risk. Citizens will be unarmed, business owners will be unarmed.

I often hear of people protecting their property with their firearms. Not to mention, people who own a gun have a better sense of security in their own homes.. because they feel if someone does try to break in or harm them, they will have a way to defend themselves.

If people need a gun under their bed to feel safe in their own home its a rather poor reflection of your society, don't you think?

I know a guy who's dad is a farmer in the Central Valley. There is a lot of crime in that area, specifically Modesto, At-water, etc.. due to illegal immigrants. The guy has had his home broken into on three separate occasions and it was done all by mexican immigrants he has employed.

Now he keeps a shotgun in his house for that reason alone. Its sort of ironic, however...his house hasnt been broken into once since then. He makes a point of somehow casually mentioning that he keeps a gun in the house when he is out working with his employees. The fact that a person can have a gun is deterrant enough to prevent people from robbing him.

The debate over gun control is like the debate over the atom bombs dropped on Japan...its too late to go back and see what would happen if we did the opposite, and the arguments over the controversy are 95% hyptothetical.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

You can't ruin the rights and privlages of law abiding citizens because a small number of dumb ***** act irresponsible. The LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITH FIREARMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the criminals who get guns, and if they are banned, the will get them illegally anyway. So now what you have done is absoluetly nothing at all.. the bad guys are still getting their guns. But, what you have done is taken guns out of the hands of the people WHO ARE NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If guns are banned, look for an increase of rape and all violent crime, muggings, burglaries, etc. Burglars and rapists won't be as hesitant to attack because they know a normal citizen will most likely not have a gun. Also look for an increase in illegal arms dealing on the black market.

Also, if you look at the statistics, the UK has an upward trend of firearm offenses. Yet guns are still illegal there. The ban there is not really stopping people who want to get a gun. The problem in the U.S. isn't that our nation is trigger happy, we are just more violent than other nations of similar status. The U.S. has one of the highest violent crime rate against persons.. with guns taken out of the equation. It's not the guns, it's the citizens. Ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill, people do"?

Mr_sprinkles

That's stupid. You cannot prevent EVERYTHING. The majority of gun crime.. actually, the overwhelming majority is done by existing criminals. A very very small percentage of gun crime is first time offenders.

And not having to use your gun isn't the point. It's having the freedom to be able to protect yourself INCASE something happens. Also, it acts as a great deterant to would be criminals. People think twice before committing a crime, because they never know who is armed.

it's obviously not a very effective deterant...

How many murders do you hear of happen to everyday citizens on the street? not many. It's usually done in retaliation, drug deals, domestic disputes, etc.

Other gun crime such as armed robbery will still happen with a ban.. perhaps even more because they see a lower risk. Citizens will be unarmed, business owners will be unarmed.

I often hear of people protecting their property with their firearms. Not to mention, people who own a gun have a better sense of security in their own homes.. because they feel if someone does try to break in or harm them, they will have a way to defend themselves.

If people need a gun under their bed to feel safe in their own home its a rather poor reflection of your society, don't you think?

I believe shooting an unarmed guy in the back while running away is murder here also.

People don't need a gun under their bed to feel safe.. they have one to be prepared. You can't control what other people do, but you can be prepared for anything that might happen.