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[QUOTE="Sgt_Homonculus"]Simple. In the abscense of an omipotent deity, the law is the next best thing. Sure, it is an imperfect, limited creation, but it's the best we've got, and in most cases does the job. And humans can divine far more diabolical punishments than any Hell could invent...LJS9502_basicWhich varies by country and culture.
Indeed. The Codes of Hammarubi are...somewhat harsh now...
[QUOTE="sheridan891"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]No...that is law. Law and common sense are not the same.who dictates what common sense is? In the middle east, millions of women are required to cover up almost their entired bodies in public. That is common sense there.
LJS9502_basic
Alright, well 150 years ago, it was common sense in most of the western world that black people were meant to be slaves. That was common sense. And a few thousands years ago its was common sense to cut off someone's hands when they stole something. common sense changes. just because YOU think something is common sense doesn't make it so for everyone. Are you trying to say that YOU should be the moral guideline for all of humanity?
No...that is not common sense. It was culture. I don't think you understand the term common sense.so what? no one had common sense back then? because all those people thought they what they were doing was completely sensible at the time.
you cant state that "absolutely" either. You dont have to try and use big words to impress me btw. and perhaps a few laws are based on religion because the majority of people are a certain religion- but that doesnt change the fact that people can be good without be religious or have religious influences. as i said before religion has made the biggest atrocities in history, and im not necissarily talking about anything involved with politics what about the inquisitions, when christians killed anyone who wouldnt convert into christianityhormagaunt
Big words.:lol: I'm sorry if they were too big for you....that is how I speak. I'm not trying to impress anyone. As I said if you read history you will see how society is shaped. Religion was important and DID influence the laws that were put in place by society. Whether or not you believe in religion does not change how society forms what they think is important.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]No...that is not common sense. It was culture. I don't think you understand the term common sense.Alright, well 150 years ago, it was common sense in most of the western world that black people were meant to be slaves. That was common sense. And a few thousands years ago its was common sense to cut off someone's hands when they stole something. common sense changes. just because YOU think something is common sense doesn't make it so for everyone. Are you trying to say that YOU should be the moral guideline for all of humanity?
sheridan891
so what? no one had common sense back then? because all those people thought they what they were doing was completely sensible at the time.
I'm not aware that I have expressed a moral guideline.....nor do I wish to do so. I'm simply pointing out that you use the term common sense incorrectly.[QUOTE="sheridan891"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]No...that is not common sense. It was culture. I don't think you understand the term common sense.Alright, well 150 years ago, it was common sense in most of the western world that black people were meant to be slaves. That was common sense. And a few thousands years ago its was common sense to cut off someone's hands when they stole something. common sense changes. just because YOU think something is common sense doesn't make it so for everyone. Are you trying to say that YOU should be the moral guideline for all of humanity?
LJS9502_basic
so what? no one had common sense back then? because all those people thought they what they were doing was completely sensible at the time.
I'm not aware that I have expressed a moral guideline.....nor do I wish to do so. I'm simply pointing out that you use the term common sense incorrectly.oh no, i used it correctly. Common sense bascially what an average person deems sensible in a culture. It was common sense that black people were slaves for a very long time. It is common sense in the middle east for women to cover it. Ask someone who has lived there.
No...that is not common sense. That is culture and law. They are not the same. Common sense would tell someone it's wise to go along with the law....but the law is not common sense. Get it yet?:roll:oh no, i used it correctly. Common sense bascially what an average person deems sensible in a culture. It was common sense that black people were slaves for a very long time. It is common sense in the middle east for women to cover it. Ask someone who has lived there.
sheridan891
[QUOTE="sheridan891"]No...that is not common sense. That is culture and law. They are not the same. Common sense would tell someone it's wise to go along with the law....but the law is not common sense. Get it yet?:roll:oh no, i used it correctly. Common sense bascially what an average person deems sensible in a culture. It was common sense that black people were slaves for a very long time. It is common sense in the middle east for women to cover it. Ask someone who has lived there.
LJS9502_basic
if common sense is following the law, and those are the laws, then those things are common sense. that is what you just said. common sense is not limited to the law, but the public sets the laws, thus the laws most times a reflection of what the people consider "common sense". For example: the speed limit is set because common sense says you shouldn't go faster than that.... so if the law is women should cover up, that law reflects what those people consider to be common sense...... get it yet
That is not what I said. Read a little slower. Such a pain breaking in the new ones.if common sense is following the law, and those are the laws, then those things are common sense. that is what you just said.
sheridan891
Speed limit is set by the whims of government.;)if common sense is following the law, and those are the laws, then those things are common sense. that is what you just said. common sense is not limited to the law, but the public sets the laws, thus the laws most times a reflection of what the people consider "common sense". For example: the speed limit is set because common sense says you shouldn't go faster than that.
sheridan891
[QUOTE="sheridan891"]Speed limit is set by the whims of government.;)if common sense is following the law, and those are the laws, then those things are common sense. that is what you just said. common sense is not limited to the law, but the public sets the laws, thus the laws most times a reflection of what the people consider "common sense". For example: the speed limit is set because common sense says you shouldn't go faster than that.
LJS9502_basic
Nice dodge there.
I am impressed. I read every single post and I have no answer. No logical, philosophical or witty response. Just emptiness. It may be that I just woke up, or perhaps the TC is so creative that he has stumbled on something that I cannot actually answer. Well done TC.
*thinks further on the subject*
foxhound_fox
thanks dude
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]Speed limit is set by the whims of government.;)if common sense is following the law, and those are the laws, then those things are common sense. that is what you just said. common sense is not limited to the law, but the public sets the laws, thus the laws most times a reflection of what the people consider "common sense". For example: the speed limit is set because common sense says you shouldn't go faster than that.
sheridan891
Nice dodge there.
It's not a dodge. When the speed limit was lowered to 55 the highway hadn't changed....the government wanted it lower. Now it's 65 and in some cases 70. Still no change in highway. If anything there are more cars on the road and more potential for accident. Just because I logically answer your question and you have no response does not make it a dodge. /thread. It's over.[QUOTE="sheridan891"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]Speed limit is set by the whims of government.;)if common sense is following the law, and those are the laws, then those things are common sense. that is what you just said. common sense is not limited to the law, but the public sets the laws, thus the laws most times a reflection of what the people consider "common sense". For example: the speed limit is set because common sense says you shouldn't go faster than that.
LJS9502_basic
Nice dodge there.
It's not a dodge. When the speed limit was lowered to 55 the highway hadn't changed....the government wanted it lower. Now it's 65 and in some cases 70. Still no change in highway. If anything there are more cars on the road and more potential for accident. Just because I logically answer your question and you have no response does not make it a dodge. /thread. It's over.haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its over
haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its over
sheridan891
:lol::lol:Indeed now it is over.:lol: Don't worry you will learn.
haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its oversheridan891
[QUOTE="sheridan891"]haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its over
LJS9502_basic
:lol::lol:Indeed now it is over.:lol: Don't worry you will learn.
oh i'm sorry, you dont have the COMMON SENSE to realize i meant "shouldn't". hahaha
[QUOTE="sheridan891"]haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its overfoxhound_fox
yeah i messed up. mean to say shouldn't. it should make sense then. I haven's slept in a while, so you'll have to forgive. Either way, the whole discussion is so tedious. common sense of a culture is reflected in law. that is all im trying to say, and have been trying to say from the beginning.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its over
sheridan891
:lol::lol:Indeed now it is over.:lol: Don't worry you will learn.
oh i'm sorry, you dont have the COMMON SENSE to realize i meant "shouldn't". hahaha
Dude....you need to understand what the phrase common sense means....because you clearly don't. Give up before you embarass yourself further.
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its oversheridan891
yeah i messed up. mean to say shouldn't. it should make sense then. I haven's slept in a while, so you'll have to forgive. Either way, the whole discussion is so tedious. common sense of a culture is reflected in law. that is all im trying to say, and have been trying to say from the beginning.
Uh common sense is not reflected in law. Law is about keeping society from utter chaos.[QUOTE="sheridan891"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its over
LJS9502_basic
:lol::lol:Indeed now it is over.:lol: Don't worry you will learn.
oh i'm sorry, you dont have the COMMON SENSE to realize i meant "shouldn't". hahaha
Dude....you need to understand what the phrase common sense means....because you clearly don't. Give up before you embarass yourself further.what in gods name are you talking about? i mistyped and said "should" instead of "shouldn't". But here i'll fix it for you so you can get it. Common Sense says you should not drive at an unsafe rate of speed. In order to try and make sure people do this, laws governing speed are inacted. Law reflecting common sense. The same could be applied to murder. Common sense says you cant go around killing people, so murder is made illegal. What part of that is wrong? Educate me.
[QUOTE="sheridan891"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]haha, what because you say so? the exact number may be a whim, but the fact that there is a speed limit at all proves my point. Common sense says you should drive 120, so they make a speed limit. Law reflecting common sense. exactly what i said... now its overGodly_Cure
yeah i messed up. mean to say shouldn't. it should make sense then. I haven's slept in a while, so you'll have to forgive. Either way, the whole discussion is so tedious. common sense of a culture is reflected in law. that is all im trying to say, and have been trying to say from the beginning.
Uh common sense is not reflected in law. Law is about keeping society from utter chaos.maybe i'm way off base here. You're saying common sense is NOT reflected in law? so laws are made, contradictory to common sense?
what in gods name are you talking about? i mistyped and said "should" instead of "shouldn't". But here i'll fix it for you so you can get it. Common Sense says you should not drive at an unsafe rate of speed. In order to try and make sure people do this, laws governing speed are inacted. Law reflecting common sense. The same could be applied to murder. Common sense says you cant go around killing people, so murder is made illegal. What part of that is wrong? Educate me.
sheridan891
1...Common Senses would dictate that you reread your post before hitting submit to catch any errors. Otherwise, I only have YOUR words to go on.
2...I've already submitted evidence as proof that the government's reason for speed limits is not directly what you state.
3...Murder has absolutely nothing to do with common sense. It is neither common sense nor a lack of it. Murder is illegal due to morality, ethics and value of human life....none of which are common sense.
You fail on so many levels yet you keep arguing. Dude, quit while you are......nevermind....You're already behind.
I'm saying that law is not based on maintaining common sense but on society's idea of right and wrong. Common sense is an entirely different subject that you have confused.maybe i'm way off base here. You're saying common sense is NOT reflected in law? so laws are made, contradictory to common sense?
sheridan891
That does not mean common sense is contradictory to law but that it's not why laws are made.
[QUOTE="sheridan891"]what in gods name are you talking about? i mistyped and said "should" instead of "shouldn't". But here i'll fix it for you so you can get it. Common Sense says you should not drive at an unsafe rate of speed. In order to try and make sure people do this, laws governing speed are inacted. Law reflecting common sense. The same could be applied to murder. Common sense says you cant go around killing people, so murder is made illegal. What part of that is wrong? Educate me.
LJS9502_basic
1...Common Senses would dictate that you reread your post before hitting submit to catch any errors. Otherwise, I only have YOUR words to go on.
2...I've already submitted evidence as proof that the government's reason for speed limits is not directly what you state.
3...Murder has absolutely nothing to do with common sense. It is neither common sense nor a lack of it. Murder is illegal due to morality, ethics and value of human life....none of which are common sense.
You fail on so many levels yet you keep arguing. Dude, quit while you are......nevermind....You're already behind.
alright alright. i want to here you define common sense for me. like i said, i haven't slept in almost 2 days now, so i you'll have to bear with, but i'll admit that i must be wrong here because 2 people are point it out. So just define common sense because the way i see it, common sense i like this: common sense is the average persons ability to judge the "sensibility" of a situation. going back to the prior example. Going too fast = dangerous. rather than allow for a dangerous situation, common sense says you enact a law to limit speed in order to aviod the danger. So if my definition is wrong, i dont want to continue in this line of thinking. I apologize for arguing this long.
i can understand your point being a catholic myself and all but the bottom line is that you cant force people to believe in what you believe in. periodI'm just curious, since plenty of people here like to redicule belief in a god, what is the alternative? If we exist for no purpose, and there is no afterlife to speak of, then why do we help each other. Why shouldn't everyone just do all the most selfish things they can think of? Out of money? Just rob someone. As long as you dont get caught, who cares? There's no repercussion. We should all be sleeping with whoever we can, getting annialated on whatever drugs we can get our hands on, stealing whatever we can get away with, and doing whatever the hell else we feel like doing. I haven't figured out exactly what i believe yet, but i'll tell you this much. There is no point in wasting your life doing "good" things for anyone but yourself if this life is all there is. Its much to short to waste helping others if when we die, that's the end. Some people might find that offensive, but they can all have waste lives not having fun, because i'll be having as much as i can if this is it.
sheridan891
The majority of people hold a certain morality because we are social animals who care about the well being of others. For example when is the last time you watched the news and heard about something terrible, like a rape, and not felt sorry for the victim and angry towards the perpetrator? Do you feel that way because god says you should be angry or is it because you instinctivly know its a disgusting crime to commit? If its because thats the way god wants you to think then i think you need to re-evaluate your morals.Loonie
Yet again.....*sigh*. If you wish to respond to me please take the time to read my posts. I'm not advocating ANY belief system. I'm stating the truth. Laws come from society. Society is people. People are affected by their belief systems. Value is placed on particular things due to these belief systems. If you grew up in a culture that accepted such things then....no, you wouldn't feel bad to hear about it as it would be normal to you.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Karayan-"] Well, there are obviously laws.... When you take away religion, and you take human psychology and the variety of people in to account and you follow the laws (bar the ban on homosexuality and lolicon) , it is not that hard to be good.LoonieLaws exist because the majority of people believe in a certain morality. If there is no accepted morality the laws will no longer exist. Now you have each individual deciding. The majority of people hold a certain morality because we are social animals who care about the well being of others. For example when is the last time you watched the news and heard about something terrible, like a rape, and not felt sorry for the victim and angry towards the perpetrator? Do you feel that way because god says you should be angry or is it because you instinctivly know its a disgusting crime to commit? If its because thats the way god wants you to think then i think you need to re-evaluate your morals.
but judging others morals is crazy. Whose morals are right? you're saying your morals are better than someone elses? why are they better? because you say so? Morals are made up by the individual. Remember that people used to do terrible things to each other all the time and still do with no remorse. Crazy stuff like the when the japanese army raped all those chinese women during WWII (sorry i forget what it was called the moment). People dont automatically feel bad for the victims either. That is a learned response.
[QUOTE="Loonie"]The majority of people hold a certain morality because we are social animals who care about the well being of others. For example when is the last time you watched the news and heard about something terrible, like a rape, and not felt sorry for the victim and angry towards the perpetrator? Do you feel that way because god says you should be angry or is it because you instinctivly know its a disgusting crime to commit? If its because thats the way god wants you to think then i think you need to re-evaluate your morals.LJS9502_basic
Yet again.....*sigh*. If you wish to respond to me please take the time to read my posts. I'm not advocating ANY belief system. I'm stating the truth. Laws come from society. Society is people. People are affected by their belief systems. Value is placed on particular things due to these belief systems. If you grew up in a culture that accepted such things then....no, you wouldn't feel bad to hear about it as it would be normal to you.
And i wasn't attacking you (if thats what you thought, I don't know). Laws do come from society (at least in most democratic countries) and people are affected by the beliefs, that much we can agree on. However morals do not come from religion, they come from people. It is part of human nature to empathise with other people, chances are most people don't like seeing other people upset, regardless of their beliefs. I believe this is where morals come from, people are social creatures who enjoy the company of others and like to make them happy. Religion and government take these insticts and enforce them.Laws exist because the majority of people believe in a certain morality. If there is no accepted morality the laws will no longer exist. Now you have each individual deciding. The majority of people hold a certain morality because we are social animals who care about the well being of others. For example when is the last time you watched the news and heard about something terrible, like a rape, and not felt sorry for the victim and angry towards the perpetrator? Do you feel that way because god says you should be angry or is it because you instinctivly know its a disgusting crime to commit? If its because thats the way god wants you to think then i think you need to re-evaluate your morals.[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Karayan-"] Well, there are obviously laws.... When you take away religion, and you take human psychology and the variety of people in to account and you follow the laws (bar the ban on homosexuality and lolicon) , it is not that hard to be good.sheridan891
but judging others morals is crazy. Whose morals are right? you're saying your morals are better than someone elses? why are they better? because you say so? Morals are made up by the individual. Remember that people used to do terrible things to each other all the time and still do with no remorse. Crazy stuff like the when the japanese army raped all those chinese women during WWII (sorry i forget what it was called the moment). People dont automatically feel bad for the victims either. That is a learned response.
It is not a learned response, children don't have a "learn to empathise" class at school. Pack mentality can also change peoples emotions and reactions, especially if they are in a war or are given absolute power over people, look at the abu ghraib US soldiers instance, chances are those soldiers were christians. In my mind religion is just a primitive form of government, used to organise people, there are still people who commit crime regardless of their beliefs.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Loonie"]The majority of people hold a certain morality because we are social animals who care about the well being of others. For example when is the last time you watched the news and heard about something terrible, like a rape, and not felt sorry for the victim and angry towards the perpetrator? Do you feel that way because god says you should be angry or is it because you instinctivly know its a disgusting crime to commit? If its because thats the way god wants you to think then i think you need to re-evaluate your morals.Loonie
Yet again.....*sigh*. If you wish to respond to me please take the time to read my posts. I'm not advocating ANY belief system. I'm stating the truth. Laws come from society. Society is people. People are affected by their belief systems. Value is placed on particular things due to these belief systems. If you grew up in a culture that accepted such things then....no, you wouldn't feel bad to hear about it as it would be normal to you.
And i wasn't attacking you (if thats what you thought, I don't know). Laws do come from society (at least in most democratic countries) and people are affected by the beliefs, that much we can agree on. However morals do not come from religion, they come from people. It is part of human nature to empathise with other people, chances are most people don't like seeing other people upset, regardless of their beliefs. I believe this is where morals come from, people are social creatures who enjoy the company of others and like to make them happy. Religion and government take these insticts and enforce them. Morals are not innate however.[QUOTE="Loonie"]The majority of people hold a certain morality because we are social animals who care about the well being of others. For example when is the last time you watched the news and heard about something terrible, like a rape, and not felt sorry for the victim and angry towards the perpetrator? Do you feel that way because god says you should be angry or is it because you instinctivly know its a disgusting crime to commit? If its because thats the way god wants you to think then i think you need to re-evaluate your morals.LJS9502_basic
Yet again.....*sigh*. If you wish to respond to me please take the time to read my posts. I'm not advocating ANY belief system. I'm stating the truth. Laws come from society. Society is people. People are affected by their belief systems. Value is placed on particular things due to these belief systems. If you grew up in a culture that accepted such things then....no, you wouldn't feel bad to hear about it as it would be normal to you.
So therefore your argument is that, stripped of the trappings of civilisation, or even better, born into barbarous isolation, humans are essentially lawless, amoral and selfish? If so, I'd be only too happy to agree...
/p>Pretty much....So therefore your argument is that, stripped of the trappings of civilisation, or even better, born into barbarous isolation, humans are essentially lawless, amoral and selfish? If so, I'd be only too happy to agree...
Sgt_Homonculus
Morals are not innate however.LJS9502_basicI disagree. It is Human nature to feel compassion, affection, empathy and all the other emotions you feel. These things are independant of religion and are where morals come from.
but judging others morals is crazy. sheridan891It seems to me that what have done in the very first post is to judge people who don't believe in god as having no morals. You automatically assume because they have no fear of hell they will rape, murder, steal and generally be an ass any chance they get.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Morals are not innate however.LoonieI disagree. It is Human nature to feel compassion, affection, empathy and all the other emotions you feel. These things are independant of religion and are where morals come from. . No it's not and if laws were different your feelings would be different. There is a whole world of cultures out there that have different morals and laws. It's all in what you are taught. Have you ever watched very young children play? They have to be taught not to steal from each other....they have to be taught to share. Human nature is selfish. Period.
[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Morals are not innate however.LJS9502_basicI disagree. It is Human nature to feel compassion, affection, empathy and all the other emotions you feel. These things are independant of religion and are where morals come from. . No it's not and if laws were different your feelings would be different. There is a whole world of cultures out there that have different morals and laws. It's all in what you are taught. Have you ever watched very young children play? They have to be taught not to steal from each other....they have to be taught to share. Human nature is selfish. Period. I have seen a very young child try to console someone who was crying.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Morals are not innate however.LoonieI disagree. It is Human nature to feel compassion, affection, empathy and all the other emotions you feel. These things are independant of religion and are where morals come from. . No it's not and if laws were different your feelings would be different. There is a whole world of cultures out there that have different morals and laws. It's all in what you are taught. Have you ever watched very young children play? They have to be taught not to steal from each other....they have to be taught to share. Human nature is selfish. Period. I have seen a very young child try to console someone who was crying. And? It's still taught. It's how parenting goes. Do you believe everyone is taught to respect others and their property? Because there would be no need for laws if such was the case. The fact that laws exist belies your argument.
[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Morals are not innate however.LJS9502_basicI disagree. It is Human nature to feel compassion, affection, empathy and all the other emotions you feel. These things are independant of religion and are where morals come from. . No it's not and if laws were different your feelings would be different. There is a whole world of cultures out there that have different morals and laws. It's all in what you are taught. Have you ever watched very young children play? They have to be taught not to steal from each other....they have to be taught to share. Human nature is selfish. Period. I have seen a very young child try to console someone who was crying. And? It's still taught. It's how parenting goes. Do you believe everyone is taught to respect others and their property? Because there would be no need for laws if such was the case. The fact that laws exist belies your argument. No, only people with psychoses can commit truly horrific crimes.
no, sorry, but the only reason to waste your time caring about others is because you want to improve their lives. But at the same time, if there is no point to life, why should i care about that?sheridan891
The reason you waste your time caring about others is because you must work together with others in order to be appreciated and loved - the human being is a social being. If you cheat and lie to other people, if you hurt them, steal from them, kill their babies, etc. then you are clearly not going to be accepted. Even without god there are morals - men have always developed morals in other to function together in a society. Although those morals can change as human beings are flexible and can adapt to change. Now, caring about others doesn't have to mean devoting yourself to everyone elses life, and forgetting about your own. If that's what you think it's about, you misunderstand. It's better if people stand up for themselves - and I don't mean standing up for themselves against everyone else ...
gotta go. bbl
No, only people with psychoses can commit truly horrific crimes.-Karayan-And how did horrific come into this?
And? It's still taught. It's how parenting goes. Do you believe everyone is taught to respect others and their property? Because there would be no need for laws if such was the case. The fact that laws exist belies your argument.LJS9502_basicI am basing my arguments on the emotions of people. I gave a bad example as a response to your point about children needing to be taught the difference between right and wrong, that hitting people causes harm and its generally a good idea to share. Children do learn these things from their parents, but no-one teaches them emotions (teach them about emotions; but not teach them how to feel). A child is too young to understand the impact of their actions, it is only when they fully realise the consequences that they can empathise. One of the reasons the law exists is because people need to feel that justice has been done if they, or their friends and family etc are wronged. The law is an attempt to make people feel as if justice has been done. True, there are people who take advantage of others to satisfy their own desires and it is not necessarily always the result of being raised incorrectly, or abuse. Simply put somewhere along the line that person decided their desires are much more important than being fair, or harming others. I wouldn't say its the result of any of their religious beliefs. I believe the majority of people though would like to help others, not because they are told to by anyone, but because it makes them happy.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And? It's still taught. It's how parenting goes. Do you believe everyone is taught to respect others and their property? Because there would be no need for laws if such was the case. The fact that laws exist belies your argument.LoonieI am basing my arguments on the emotions of people. I gave a bad example as a response to your point about children needing to be taught the difference between right and wrong, that hitting people causes harm and its generally a good idea to share. Children do learn these things from their parents, but no-one teaches them emotions (teach them about emotions; but not teach them how to feel). A child is too young to understand the impact of their actions, it is only when they fully realise the consequences that they can empathise. One of the reasons the law exists is because people need to feel that justice has been done if they, or their friends and family etc are wronged. The law is an attempt to make people feel as if justice has been done. True, there are people who take advantage of others to satisfy their own desires and it is not necessarily always the result of being raised incorrectly, or abuse. Simply put somewhere along the line that person decided their desires are much more important than being fair, or harming others. I wouldn't say its the result of any of their religious beliefs. I believe the majority of people though would like to help others, not because they are told to by anyone, but because it makes them happy. Ok...let's try this then.... a child that is not comforted will not comfort. That is taught as well. There are many peope that do not fell justice has been served...what keeps them from acting out? Certainly not the law that let them down. You are a product of your environment.
[QUOTE="sheridan891"]no, sorry, but the only reason to waste your time caring about others is because you want to improve their lives. But at the same time, if there is no point to life, why should i care about that?doubutsuteki
The reason you waste your time caring about others is because you must work together with others in order to be appreciated and loved - the human being is a social being. If you cheat and lie to other people, if you hurt them, steal from them, kill their babies, etc. then you are clearly not going to be accepted. Even without god there are morals - men have always developed morals in other to function together in a society. Although those morals can change as human beings are flexible and can adapt to change. Now, caring about others doesn't have to mean devoting yourself to everyone elses life, and forgetting about your own. If that's what you think it's about, you misunderstand. It's better if people stand up for themselves - and I don't mean standing up for themselves against everyone else ...
gotta go. bbl
Almost what I have been trying to say, only he said it much better than I.[QUOTE="doubutsuteki"][QUOTE="sheridan891"]no, sorry, but the only reason to waste your time caring about others is because you want to improve their lives. But at the same time, if there is no point to life, why should i care about that?Loonie
The reason you waste your time caring about others is because you must work together with others in order to be appreciated and loved - the human being is a social being. If you cheat and lie to other people, if you hurt them, steal from them, kill their babies, etc. then you are clearly not going to be accepted. Even without god there are morals - men have always developed morals in other to function together in a society. Although those morals can change as human beings are flexible and can adapt to change. Now, caring about others doesn't have to mean devoting yourself to everyone elses life, and forgetting about your own. If that's what you think it's about, you misunderstand. It's better if people stand up for themselves - and I don't mean standing up for themselves against everyone else ...
gotta go. bbl
Almost what I have been trying to say, only he said it much better than I. Except that is not always true.....Please Log In to post.
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