So...When did you stoped believe in God, in case you did?

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

[QUOTE="adv_tr00per"]

have you ever seen the pictures of the universe? earth is pretty much irrelevant and why would god make all that room for some puny humans living in the corner of the universe? and i actually used to be really really faithful, and thought that people who didn't believe in god were idiots. but you just learn and realize things......

blackacidevil96

space is not infinite. the bredth of out own universe is an empirically measureable number (of cousres these are all best estimates given current technology.). and time in the most general sense (meaning the most non scientific way possible) is only a means of task managemnt created by humans. saying that your watch even measures time is a crude and inaccurate answer to a complex question (the question being how do you measure time.)

AND currently weve discovered over 400 exoplanets (planets orbiting a star other than our own.) we not even scratched the surface of whats out there. just because we have not found life outside of earths grasp. doesnt mean its not there. id hardly expect to make contact with another advanced race or even a micro organism considering humans havent even had a presence beyond our atmosphere of even 100years.

How do you know that space isnt infinite? And time can be measured by humans, but it isnt controlled by us.

Well for me it went something like this, up to the age of 9 i didn't believe in god, then for the next year and a half or so i started believing, saw how much of a load of crap it was and then i became the proud atheist i am today 6 years later :D

Never did. Maybe once or twice entertained the notion. At least no-where near the idea of a christian god.

A higher power on the other hand, Is not out of the question.

Many times I will be out in the wilderness, witnessing natural beauty indescribable, and I will be reminded of these lyrics;

Here at the edge of this world
Here I gaze at a pantheon of oak, a citadel of stone
If this grand panorama before me is what you call God. . .
Then God is not dead

I stopped believing around the time I was handed Rick Warren's: The Purpose Driven Life.

Mostly it was the prosletizing I had been subjected to, and it appeared to me that with so many religions trying to get higher scores, I should just wait till I see who wins.

Mind you, this was early elementary school. Trust me I've refined my arguments significantly since then.

Well for me it went something like this, up to the age of 9 i didn't believe in god, then for the next year and a half or so i started believing, saw how much of a load of crap it was and then i became the proud atheist i am today 6 years later :D

29121994

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] That actually sounds very ignorant, seeing that we are the only living life forms that we know of. And everything is infinite (space and time) so I have no idea why you said that.

gamerlifegrace

space is not infinite. the bredth of out own universe is an empirically measureable number (of cousres these are all best estimates given current technology.). and time in the most general sense (meaning the most non scientific way possible) is only a means of task managemnt created by humans. saying that your watch even measures time is a crude and inaccurate answer to a complex question (the question being how do you measure time.)

AND currently weve discovered over 400 exoplanets (planets orbiting a star other than our own.) we not even scratched the surface of whats out there. just because we have not found life outside of earths grasp. doesnt mean its not there. id hardly expect to make contact with another advanced race or even a micro organism considering humans havent even had a presence beyond our atmosphere of even 100years.

How do you know that space isnt infinite? And time can be measured by humans, but it isnt controlled by us.

how do i know? i never know anything with 100% conviction as is demanded by faith. i know that the size of the universe in around 93billion light years(diameter). that means the space in which our laws of physics can be applied with any sort of relevance is 93billion light years of space. (space being the area that contains all matter.) and time cannot be measured in any meaningfull sense by humans at this point. (there is only one physical law that acknowledges that 'time' has a direction). we simply have clever ways of managing what we do between one sunrise and sunset.

time as far as we know is also effected by gravity. so given that we can and do move mass around. we can and do mess with how time runs in any finite location.

Wow, that was a great answer!

Bravo sir.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

space is not infinite. the bredth of out own universe is an empirically measureable number (of cousres these are all best estimates given current technology.). and time in the most general sense (meaning the most non scientific way possible) is only a means of task managemnt created by humans. saying that your watch even measures time is a crude and inaccurate answer to a complex question (the question being how do you measure time.)

AND currently weve discovered over 400 exoplanets (planets orbiting a star other than our own.) we not even scratched the surface of whats out there. just because we have not found life outside of earths grasp. doesnt mean its not there. id hardly expect to make contact with another advanced race or even a micro organism considering humans havent even had a presence beyond our atmosphere of even 100years.

How do you know that space isnt infinite? And time can be measured by humans, but it isnt controlled by us.

how do i know? i never know anything with 100% conviction as is demanded by faith. i know that the size of the universe in around 93billion light years(diameter). that means the space in which our laws of physics can be applied with any sort of relevance is 93billion light years of space. (space being the area that contains all matter.) and time cannot be measured in any meaningfull sense by humans at this point. (there is only one physical law that acknowledges that 'time' has a direction). we simply have clever ways of managing what we do between one sunrise and sunset.

time as far as we know is also effected by gravity. so given that we can and do move mass around. we can and do mess with how time runs in any finite location.

I was born Catholic, my views on God have changed a bit, but I definitely still believe it's out there somewhere.

Gravity doesn't affect time. It affects the experience of time by an object with mass because gravity affects the mass. Gravity actually affects time-space. gamerlifegrace

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] Gravity doesn't affect time. It affects the experience of time by an object with mass because gravity affects the mass. Gravity actually affects time-space. BumFluff122

I meant the amount of time it takes in space.

You cant fix the title of the thread?

Anyways, I have no clue.
But it probably had to do with reason and not liking what they were telling me because it sounded ridiculous.
From there it was downhill and I really dont see the bible as anything more than tall-tales in most cases.
Though I do believe there was a Jesus, I cant say he was the son of god, a prophet, or god himself because to me the existence of god is questionable but possible.
So I now stand as an Agnostic.
I guess I never really "Stopped Believing" but I have my doubts more like.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] Gravity doesn't affect time. It affects the experience of time by an object with mass because gravity affects the mass. Gravity actually affects time-space. gamerlifegrace

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Time and space are one in the same. Hence the term you used... time-space.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] Gravity doesn't affect time. It affects the experience of time by an object with mass because gravity affects the mass. Gravity actually affects time-space. BumFluff122

and currently we only know of time as an experience. i aslo included "at a finite point" to clarify this distortion of time being purely local. time as we know it doesnt not exisit in a singularity, time 'stops' and as the user has stated. we exist withing space time. we CANNOT talk about one with out the inclusion of the other in a physical sense.

and the statement of gravity affecting mass is a little ambiguous as we dont even know what causes a particle to have mass. what property gives a particle mass. and how does that relate to our definition of gravity. gravity currently is the interaction of massive particles in the macroscopic environment.

and lets just point out once again. as far as i know we have no real way of measuring time. cause as you hinted (by choice or otherwise) time is an experience. and experience created by the human mind. (which is entirely plausible as 'time' is possibly one of the most difficult concepts to truely grasp)

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] I meant the amount of time in space. gamerlifegrace

youre right. time slows down if you drop a ball.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]And how do you know it doesn't effect time? How exactly do you know time is linear?

youre right. time slows down if you drop a ball.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] I meant the amount of time in space. gamerlifegrace

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]And how do you know it doesn't effect time? How exactly do you know time is linear?

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] Because when I drop a ball, time doesnt friggin speed up!!!!! gamerlifegrace

youre right. time slows down if you drop a ball.

nope. this is real life. it is an extremely important observation at that. gps systems as well as all sattelite navigations would mean nothing without this realization.

as the velocity increase time decrease(thats worded strangly, mostly due to my lack of verbal articulation.). time will pass slower for an observer traveling at a high velocity wrt to an inertial reference fram that it will for an observer travelling at a low velocity wrt an inertial reference frame.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] Because when I drop a ball, time doesnt friggin speed up!!!!! gamerlifegrace

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

youre right. time slows down if you drop a ball.

blackacidevil96

nope. this is real life. it is an extremely important observation at that. gps systems as well as all sattelite navigations would mean nothing without this realization.

as the velocity increase time decrease(thats worded strangly, mostly due to my lack of verbal articulation.). time will pass slower for an observer traveling at a high velocity wrt to an inertial reference fram that it will for an observer travelling at a low velocity wrt an inertial reference frame.

Around 13. Started questioning my belief due to the complete lack of conclusive evidence to support it, and reading about the Church's actions throughout history did not help me retain my faith. By the next year, I was an Agnostic.

I was confirmed Catholic at age 16.

I stopped believing in God 3 years later.

Boy I feel better nowadays :D

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] whoa, I just went into the matrix!!!!!!!!!! lol BumFluff122

nope. this is real life. it is an extremely important observation at that. gps systems as well as all sattelite navigations would mean nothing without this realization.

as the velocity increase time decrease(thats worded strangly, mostly due to my lack of verbal articulation.). time will pass slower for an observer traveling at a high velocity wrt to an inertial reference fram that it will for an observer travelling at a low velocity wrt an inertial reference frame.

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer, time wasnt controlled or halted since that person did not go into the future. I want you to really think about what I just said.

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer time wasnt controlled or halted, since that person did not go into the future, I want you to really think about what I just said.

gamerlifegrace

Around 13. Started questioning my belief due to the complete lack of conclusive evidence to support it, and reading about the Church's actions throughout history did not help me retain my faith. By the next year, I was an Agnostic.

Barbariser

some of the Church's actions in history that you are referring to, doesnt reflect on what the word of God teaches us.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer time wasnt controlled or halted, since that person did not go into the future, I want you to really think about what I just said.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

nope. this is real life. it is an extremely important observation at that. gps systems as well as all sattelite navigations would mean nothing without this realization.

as the velocity increase time decrease(thats worded strangly, mostly due to my lack of verbal articulation.). time will pass slower for an observer traveling at a high velocity wrt to an inertial reference fram that it will for an observer travelling at a low velocity wrt an inertial reference frame.

gamerlifegrace

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer, time wasnt controlled or halted since that person did not go into the future. I want you to really think about what I just said.

but it was changed for that observer as viewed by any other externall observer. ive mentioned nothing of time travel.

think of it like this. picture space-time as an xy coordinate system. time being along the x axis speed on the y axis. at a very low speed as we experience on a day to day basis. out travel functions normal through time (a near horizontal line in the space-time graphing.) if that observer can accelerate themselves to the speed of light 'c'. that observes is devoting all of their energy to moving through space. none expends 0 energy moving through time. so they would NOT EXPERIENCE ANY TIME PROGRESSION.

by controlling our speed and local mass we define how the individual will observe time. it is based on perspective. so my statement still stands. time HALTS when the speed of light is achieved.

brian green states it very well in his book "the fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality". a brief history of time also does a good job at this.

the whole point i was making is that time is not a constant.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]The area of the object when travelling at high speed also changes. It becomes shorter.

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer, time wasnt controlled or halted since that person did not go into the future. I want you to really think about what I just said.

but it was changed for that observer as viewed by any other externall observer. ive mentioned nothing of time travel.

think of it like this. picture space-time as an xy coordinate system. time being along the x axis speed on the y axis. at a very low speed as we experience on a day to day basis. out travel functions normal through time (a near horizontal line in the space-time graphing.) if that observer can accelerate themselves to the speed of light 'c'. that observes is devoting all of their energy to moving through space. none expends 0 energy moving through time. so they would NOT EXPERIENCE ANY TIME PROGRESSION.

by controlling our speed and local mass we define how the individual will observe time. it is based on perspective. so my statement still stands. time HALTS when the speed of light is achieved.

brian green states it very well in his book "the fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality". a brief history of time also does a good job at this.

the whole point i was making is that time is not a constant.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer, time wasnt controlled or halted since that person did not go into the future. I want you to really think about what I just said.

but it was changed for that observer as viewed by any other externall observer. ive mentioned nothing of time travel.

think of it like this. picture space-time as an xy coordinate system. time being along the x axis speed on the y axis. at a very low speed as we experience on a day to day basis. out travel functions normal through time (a near horizontal line in the space-time graphing.) if that observer can accelerate themselves to the speed of light 'c'. that observes is devoting all of their energy to moving through space. none expends 0 energy moving through time. so they would NOT EXPERIENCE ANY TIME PROGRESSION.

by controlling our speed and local mass we define how the individual will observe time. it is based on perspective. so my statement still stands. time HALTS when the speed of light is achieved.

brian green states it very well in his book "the fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality". a brief history of time also does a good job at this.

the whole point i was making is that time is not a constant.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

but it was changed for that observer as viewed by any other externall observer. ive mentioned nothing of time travel.

think of it like this. picture space-time as an xy coordinate system. time being along the x axis speed on the y axis. at a very low speed as we experience on a day to day basis. out travel functions normal through time (a near horizontal line in the space-time graphing.) if that observer can accelerate themselves to the speed of light 'c'. that observes is devoting all of their energy to moving through space. none expends 0 energy moving through time. so they would NOT EXPERIENCE ANY TIME PROGRESSION.

by controlling our speed and local mass we define how the individual will observe time. it is based on perspective. so my statement still stands. time HALTS when the speed of light is achieved.

brian green states it very well in his book "the fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality". a brief history of time also does a good job at this.

the whole point i was making is that time is not a constant.

MuddVader

we are talking about time. And if it can be controlled or managed.

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer, time wasnt controlled or halted since that person did not go into the future. I want you to really think about what I just said.

gamerlifegrace

but it was changed for that observer as viewed by any other externall observer. ive mentioned nothing of time travel.

think of it like this. picture space-time as an xy coordinate system. time being along the x axis speed on the y axis. at a very low speed as we experience on a day to day basis. out travel functions normal through time (a near horizontal line in the space-time graphing.) if that observer can accelerate themselves to the speed of light 'c'. that observes is devoting all of their energy to moving through space. none expends 0 energy moving through time. so they would NOT EXPERIENCE ANY TIME PROGRESSION.

by controlling our speed and local mass we define how the individual will observe time. it is based on perspective. so my statement still stands. time HALTS when the speed of light is achieved.

brian green states it very well in his book "the fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality". a brief history of time also does a good job at this.

the whole point i was making is that time is not a constant.

none of these are theories that ive personally developed. only theroies ive studied in university. whether you buy it or not is an irrelevent refusal of observable phenomena.

and the gps comment youve made clearly shows your lack of understanding of ANYTHING ive just said.

so let me make a futile attempt to explain how this works.

ok GPS global positoning systesm and ANY SATELLITE. we communicate with them based on where we expect them to be. now these satellites, are traveling at 24,000 miles per hour. at this high velocity their clocks run slow. and become out of sync with the clocks we use on earth. if we do not account for this we can have no idea where our satelites are located with respected to us, and can also not calculate how the satelite is oriented with respect to an inertial reference frame.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN COMPUTATIONAL SPEED CAPABILITIES.

(again my description is lacking in numerical detail but the concept remains the same.) case closed.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

But there is still nothing that changes time!!!!! and @blackacidevil96, for the observer time wasnt controlled or halted, since that person did not go into the future, I want you to really think about what I just said.

gamerlifegrace

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

but it was changed for that observer as viewed by any other externall observer. ive mentioned nothing of time travel.

think of it like this. picture space-time as an xy coordinate system. time being along the x axis speed on the y axis. at a very low speed as we experience on a day to day basis. out travel functions normal through time (a near horizontal line in the space-time graphing.) if that observer can accelerate themselves to the speed of light 'c'. that observes is devoting all of their energy to moving through space. none expends 0 energy moving through time. so they would NOT EXPERIENCE ANY TIME PROGRESSION.

by controlling our speed and local mass we define how the individual will observe time. it is based on perspective. so my statement still stands. time HALTS when the speed of light is achieved.

brian green states it very well in his book "the fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality". a brief history of time also does a good job at this.

the whole point i was making is that time is not a constant.

none of these are theories that ive personally developed. only theroies ive studied in university. whether you buy it or not is an irrelevent refusal of observable phenomena.

and the gps comment youve made clearly shows your lack of understanding of ANYTHING ive just said.

so let me make a futile attempt to explain how this works.

ok GPS global positoning systesm and ANY SATELLITE. we communicate with them based on where we expect them to be. now these satellites, are traveling at 24,000 miles per hour. at this high velocity their clocks run slow. and become out of sync with the clocks we use on earth. if we do not account for this we can have no idea where our satelites are located with respected to us, and can also not calculate how the satelite is oriented with respect to an inertial reference frame.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN COMPUTATIONAL SPEED CAPABILITIES.

(again my description is lacking in numerical detail but the concept remains the same.) case closed.

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] That sounds like "back to the future". Im sorry, but Im not buying it. Time has not been stopped, of controlled. You seemed to have made a whole bunch of logic out of somethig that really doesnt add up to controlling time. And btw, gps systems work faster than what humans can, case closed. gamerlifegrace

none of these are theories that ive personally developed. only theroies ive studied in university. whether you buy it or not is an irrelevent refusal of observable phenomena.

and the gps comment youve made clearly shows your lack of understanding of ANYTHING ive just said.

so let me make a futile attempt to explain how this works.

ok GPS global positoning systesm and ANY SATELLITE. we communicate with them based on where we expect them to be. now these satellites, are traveling at 24,000 miles per hour. at this high velocity their clocks run slow. and become out of sync with the clocks we use on earth. if we do not account for this we can have no idea where our satelites are located with respected to us, and can also not calculate how the satelite is oriented with respect to an inertial reference frame.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN COMPUTATIONAL SPEED CAPABILITIES.

(again my description is lacking in numerical detail but the concept remains the same.) case closed.

again. youre missing the point. time on a local level can be changed with respect to that local level. i can change my time by simply running faster. whether that is a significant change or not is irrelevent.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

none of these are theories that ive personally developed. only theroies ive studied in university. whether you buy it or not is an irrelevent refusal of observable phenomena.

and the gps comment youve made clearly shows your lack of understanding of ANYTHING ive just said.

so let me make a futile attempt to explain how this works.

ok GPS global positoning systesm and ANY SATELLITE. we communicate with them based on where we expect them to be. now these satellites, are traveling at 24,000 miles per hour. at this high velocity their clocks run slow. and become out of sync with the clocks we use on earth. if we do not account for this we can have no idea where our satelites are located with respected to us, and can also not calculate how the satelite is oriented with respect to an inertial reference frame.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN COMPUTATIONAL SPEED CAPABILITIES.

(again my description is lacking in numerical detail but the concept remains the same.) case closed.

blackacidevil96

again. youre missing the point. time on a local level can be changed with respect to that local level. i can change my time by simply running faster. whether that is a significant change or not is irrelevent.

no you cant. you still cant change it. You can change how you view it, but you cant go anywhere sort to say.

I never really believed in God, but I do respect the existence ofhim (or her).

My family's mainly Buddhist (especially from my dad's side of the family) but we're not that religious.

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] I learned that in the sixth grade. But that doesnt make time something that you can control!!!!!gamerlifegrace

again. youre missing the point. time on a local level can be changed with respect to that local level. i can change my time by simply running faster. whether that is a significant change or not is irrelevent.

no you cant. you still cant change it. You can change how you view it, but you cant go anywhere sort to say.

you have this idea in my head that i am trying to prove time travel and im not. if i was traveling at the speed of light. or if i had an infinite mass density then time for me woul STOP i would not translate through time in any way shape or form.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

again. youre missing the point. time on a local level can be changed with respect to that local level. i can change my time by simply running faster. whether that is a significant change or not is irrelevent.

blackacidevil96

no you cant. you still cant change it. You can change how you view it, but you cant go anywhere sort to say.

you have this idea in my head that i am trying to prove time travel and im not. if i was traveling at the speed of light. or if i had an infinite mass density then time for me woul STOP i would not translate through time in any way shape or form.

what you said is ridiculous. everything moves dude and nothing ever stops. its late. good night, and good luck lol.

[QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]

no you cant. you still cant change it. You can change how you view it, but you cant go anywhere sort to say.

gamerlifegrace

you have this idea in my head that i am trying to prove time travel and im not. if i was traveling at the speed of light. or if i had an infinite mass density then time for me woul STOP i would not translate through time in any way shape or form.

what you said is ridiculous. everything moves dude and nothing ever stops. its late. good night, and good luck lol.

but NOTHING moves at the same speed. so again. my statement remains. the things youre neglecting are rediculous. good night fellow late night OTers

Don't say this is a good quote when you don't stand by it. Giving someone your address and enticing him to meet you so you can kill him for his religion (and nothing else I might add) is not morality. In fact it is straight dreadful to think that people still have attitudes like this. Its fine if you don't believe in the same thing that another might believe in - But I think we all have a general standard of what morality is - and "And never said I was good." is quite pathetic. I've never met anyone in my life that strove to be a bad person. RedDraco66

[QUOTE="MuddVader"][QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] That sounds like "back to the future". Im sorry, but Im not buying it. Time has not been stopped, of controlled. You seemed to have made a whole bunch of logic out of somethig that really doesnt add up to controlling time. And btw, gps systems work faster than what humans can, case closed. gamerlifegrace

we are talking about time. And if it can be controlled or managed.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="blackacidevil96"]

youre right. time slows down if you drop a ball.

blackacidevil96

nope. this is real life. it is an extremely important observation at that. gps systems as well as all sattelite navigations would mean nothing without this realization.

as the velocity increase time decrease(thats worded strangly, mostly due to my lack of verbal articulation.). time will pass slower for an observer traveling at a high velocity wrt to an inertial reference fram that it will for an observer travelling at a low velocity wrt an inertial reference frame.

EDIT: But I do not see how this has anything to do with what is being talked about.

[QUOTE="RedDraco66"] Don't say this is a good quote when you don't stand by it. Giving someone your address and enticing him to meet you so you can kill him for his religion (and nothing else I might add) is not morality. In fact it is straight dreadful to think that people still have attitudes like this. Its fine if you don't believe in the same thing that another might believe in - But I think we all have a general standard of what morality is - and "And never said I was good." is quite pathetic. I've never met anyone in my life that strove to be a bad person. VanHelsingBoA64

[QUOTE="VanHelsingBoA64"]

[QUOTE="RedDraco66"] Don't say this is a good quote when you don't stand by it. Giving someone your address and enticing him to meet you so you can kill him for his religion (and nothing else I might add) is not morality. In fact it is straight dreadful to think that people still have attitudes like this. Its fine if you don't believe in the same thing that another might believe in - But I think we all have a general standard of what morality is - and "And never said I was good." is quite pathetic. I've never met anyone in my life that strove to be a bad person. RedDraco66