Sphephen Fry debate against catholicism

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

It was the farthest thing from a wise decision and because of that, the church leaders deserve every bit of disgust and critism aimed at them. Instead of dealing with hit, he swept it under the carpet.

Dark_Knight6

We are talking about molestation in general or specifically in regards to Rev. Alvin Campbell..?

About it in general. The "he" was referring to the Pope.

Oh, well..as i said..it wasn't the wisest decision on his part...i don't really have much more to say in regards to that..

[QUOTE="clayron"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]]

The leaders are human..can't expect them to be perfect..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

A large number?..talk about exaggeration..and yes, they have a small margin for error..they make mistakes..they can't help it they aren't mortal gods..

Exaggeration! You jest?

According to the John Jay report, (link to actual report), between the years of 1950 and 2002 4000+ priests were accused of sexual molestation of a child. Now, that represents only 4% of total priests, but I do not think you can make an argument that 4000+ priests is not a large number.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="clayron"] That's not a valid excuse. The people that run the catholic church all take a ridiculous number of vows and oaths that say that they will uphold the original principles that the church was supposedly founded on. That makes them accountable to the people of the church and those that criticize catholicism. Its not about being perfect but when you have a large number of priest engaging in child molestation, a pope whose word can influence the lives of hundreds of millions, and a hierarchal system destined to keep power in the hands of a few you have a small margin of error before people start to openly criticize what your true intentions are. You have to do your best to see that you contribute to the world you are meant to serve. And with the centuries of corruption/deceit/violence that has been a part of the catholic church it makes itself a target for criticism, because it is not doing exactly what it is telling people it supposed to do.

clayron

A large number?..talk about exaggeration..and yes, they have a small margin for error..they make mistakes..they can't help it they aren't mortal gods..

Exaggeration! You jest?

According to the John Jay report, (link to actual report), between the years of 1950 and 2002 4000+ priests were accused of sexual molestation of a child. Now, that represents only 4% of total priests, but I do not think you can make an argument that 4000+ priests is not a large number.

4% is not a large percentage...besides..who's to say molesters aren't specifically seeking out priesthood to get near children..and that's over more then 5 decades..i wouldn't call that large...

4% is not a large percentage...besides..who's to say molesters aren't specifically seeking out priesthood to get near children..and that's over more then 5 decades..i wouldn't call that large...Xx_Hopeless_xX

[QUOTE="cybrcatter"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Like a large portion of them have hand in that..;)

Xx_Hopeless_xX

"Our criminal justice system broken because procedures are complex, or because they are designed to ensure that an innocent person is not wrongly convicted? Any mature criminal justice system -- including the canonical system -- has two duties: to punish the guilty and, of no less importance, to protect the innocent from mistaken prosecution. Sometimes, in a rush to judgment, people forget about the latter".it takes time to investigate these matters...and necessary action and such is now being taken...

Why do people relentlessly attack catholicism..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

Well because its an institution saying they are an absolute power of good in the world except they endlessly spread lies and rape children is why. If you watch the video hes not attacking catholics or what they believe hes attacking the church its self which he should

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Why do people relentlessly attack catholicism..

VendettaRed07

Well because its an institution saying they are an absolute power of good in the world except they endlessly spread lies and rape children is why. If you watch the video hes not attacking catholics or what they believe hes attacking the church its self which he should

[QUOTE="VendettaRed07"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Why do people relentlessly attack catholicism..

Snipes_2

Well because its an institution saying they are an absolute power of good in the world except they endlessly spread lies and rape children is why. If you watch the video hes not attacking catholics or what they believe hes attacking the church its self which he should

"condoms spreads aid" - the pope

:I

And it makes perfect sense because they practically endorse it... The pope covered up alot of priests who molested children by moving them to different churches or paying off the kids and their families. Instead of them you know... being sent to jail or brought up on charges etc they get away with it because of all the cover ups >_>

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

Richymisiak

[QUOTE="Richymisiak"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="VendettaRed07"]

Well because its an institution saying they are an absolute power of good in the world except they endlessly spread lies and rape children is why. If you watch the video hes not attacking catholics or what they believe hes attacking the church its self which he should

VendettaRed07

"condoms spreads aid" - the pope

:I

And it makes perfect sense because they practically endorse it... The pope covered up alot of priests who molested children by moving them to different churches or paying off the kids and their families. Instead of them you know... being sent to jail or brought up on charges etc they get away with it because of all the cover ups >_>

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Richymisiak"] sounds like someone is a little insecure is you ask meTeenaged

[QUOTE="Richymisiak"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Yeah, Sphephen(?) Fry. Snipes_2

Although you still ignored one of the points he made.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]First answer to what vendettasomething told you after you responded to him before talking about people being insecure about their beliefs, a thing which some times entails avoiding to adress certain points being made.........

Teenaged

Although you still ignored one of the points he made.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] What?Snipes_2

Although you still ignored one of the points he made.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Nvm, you answered afterwards. :P

Although you still ignored one of the points he made.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] What point?Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] What point?Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]About the spreading of lies not being only a matter of opinion (about what is a lie and what isnt).

Richymisiak

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]About the spreading of lies not being only a matter of opinion (about what is a lie and what isnt).

Richymisiak

[QUOTE="Richymisiak"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Yeah, Sphephen(?) Fry. Snipes_2

that shouldnt matter. If anything its the catholics that should be the ones angry about this but they aren't. Because they either deny that its going on or that they are making it out to be much less of a problem than it really is. Just like the church and thats why there are all these cover ups because they dont want to accept whats going on is an issue and that there is nothing wrong with the way the church operates.

Turned it off as soon as his rant started since he's talking about things that happened so long ago. Lame argument.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] What point?Snipes_2

"Condoms spread AIDS".

So I suppose only atheists see that as a lie.........? I dont know how you create the correlation....

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]About the spreading of lies not being only a matter of opinion (about what is a lie and what isnt).

Teenaged

"Condoms spread AIDS".

So I suppose only atheists see that as a lie.........? I dont know how you create the correlation....

[QUOTE="Richymisiak"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Oh, I didn't see that. If you're an Atheist, of course you're going to think the church is "Spreading Lies". It depends on your Religious Perspective. Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Richymisiak"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Oh, I didn't see that. If you're an Atheist, of course you're going to think the church is "Spreading Lies". It depends on your Religious Perspective. Snipes_2

Thats what propaganda does: it speak in absolutes, appeals to emotion (in this case fear) through exaggeration in this case.

Considering the Pope speaks to a variety of people, some of which will believe his words to the letter, and some others who wont try to interpret the reasonable advice behind those words (although I dont believe there is anything behind his words), it is justified to call it a lie, considering his responsibility towards the body of believers and his responsibility about the missions in Africa as well, where people are not in the least educated about AIDS and what is the main cause of it (not the condoms), and I doubt the Pope is either.

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Oh, I didn't see that. If you're an Atheist, of course you're going to think the church is "Spreading Lies". It depends on your Religious Perspective. LJS9502_basic

"Condoms spread AIDS".

So I suppose only atheists see that as a lie.........? I dont know how you create the correlation....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]And I repeat what vendettasomething showed as an example:

"Condoms spread AIDS".

So I suppose only atheists see that as a lie.........? I dont know how you create the correlation....

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] On a superficial level I suppose that could be the impression..but what condoms allow for is promiscuity which can spread AIDS. Plus, while they help considerably...there are not 100%.

LJS9502_basic

And yes of course it can create violence but that doesnt justify "my" unclarified and misinformative (through its many implications) statement.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Lol, People who feel insecure about their beliefs REALLY need to Shut Up about Catholicsm. After reading up on this guy, I know exactly why he attacks the Church, what an Imbecile.

ganon92

Being the genius that he is, comedic and otherwise, I too feel weird. It's just one of those things that you never. Ever.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Oh well then I guess the statement "alcohol consumption spreads violence" is also true, right?

Teenaged

And yes of course it can create violence but that doesnt justify "my" unclarified and misinformative (through its many implications) statement.

Am I the only one who has no idea who Stephen Fry is?

And there goes the thread. Well, at least there were some legitimate points being made for both sides for at least a few pages.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Link where the pope made that statment? Because I haven't seen that statement.. And alcohol can increase violence by the way.....LJS9502_basic

And yes of course it can create violence but that doesnt justify "my" unclarified and misinformative (through its many implications) statement.

Yes his wording is different than what I just said but I dont know if what the users who speak about that quote I mentioned refer to that speech, or some other speech irrelevant to missions in Africa.

So I guess lets await for clarification from someone else who may have a link, if they do.

I'd say the archbishop during his final statement won the debate by pointing out how they did not make a single argument for how the Catholic Church is not a force of good in the world, all they did was prove how the Catholic Church was bad for the world. Silenthps

...... Well.. You cant exactly be a force of good in the world and be bad for the world at the same time..

Why do people relentlessly attack catholicism..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

They don't.. its called being critical... No organization, idea or institution should be above rationale and well thought out critical analysis.

Am I the only one who has no idea who Stephen Fry is?

Niff_T

Yes. :evil: Look him up and be enlightened. :P

[QUOTE="bobbetybob"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Why do people relentlessly attack catholicism..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

I was speaking in general...even then..why debate it...some people follow it some don't...catholics aren't hurting anyone..

Why debate anything, then?

The truth is the Catholic Church is an amalgamation of religious practices, very few of them Christian in any way. Prayer candles and keeping body parts of 'Saints' as well as 'Mother of God' are all from the Church of Baal. Christmas is of Germanic pagan origin, Easter didn't even get it's name changed from the Goddess Ēostre whom it celebrates, hell the Bible even warns against following those who are 'forbidden to marry' (1 Timothy 4:1-3).

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

When you call yourself 'The One True Church' and then deviate from scripture in so many ways, why shouldn't believers attack them?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Oh, I didn't see that. If you're an Atheist, of course you're going to think the church is "Spreading Lies". It depends on your Religious Perspective. LJS9502_basic

"Condoms spread AIDS".

So I suppose only atheists see that as a lie.........? I dont know how you create the correlation....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]No I dont have a link.

And yes of course it can create violence but that doesnt justify "my" unclarified and misinformative (through its many implications) statement.

Teenaged

Yes his wording is different than what I just said but I dont know if what the users who speak about that quote I mentioned refer to that speech, or some other speech irrelevant to missions in Africa.

So I guess lets await for clarification from someone else who may have a link, if they do.

Am I the only one who has no idea who Stephen Fry is?

Niff_T

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]No I dont have a link.

And yes of course it can create violence but that doesnt justify "my" unclarified and misinformative (through its many implications) statement.

Teenaged

Yes his wording is different than what I just said but I dont know if what the users who speak about that quote I mentioned refer to that speech, or some other speech irrelevant to missions in Africa.

So I guess lets await for clarification from someone else who may have a link, if they do.

So I'm going with....what was said actually isn't true but has been twisted around to suit an agenda.