Stephen Hawking says afterlife is a fairytale...

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

Wait, did Hawkings basically describe humans as the waste product of an infinitely more magnificent universe?

TommyWieseau81

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

Don't care, really.

no_more_fayth

Why should I care what he thinks?

[QUOTE="TommyWieseau81"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

Nibroc420

Just a general question is all, I respect the mans beliefs.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

Wait, did Hawkings basically describe humans as the waste product of an infinitely more magnificent universe?

TommyWieseau81

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

No.

[QUOTE="TommyWieseau81"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

GabuEx

No.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="TommyWieseau81"] Are you an atheist?Nibroc420

No.

I don't see how my personal religious beliefs are relevant to anything that's been said in this thread. :?

I hate when people try to prove there is no afterlife, why would you even want to try and do that?? I mean if there was no afterlife then why are we even here?? If there is no afterlife then we shouldn't be smart enough to question if there is an afterlife. I believe there is some sort of an afterlife, I just really hate when people try to make it seem like there isn't one "Yeah your here for 80 years but when you die you don't go anywhere" seems like such a waste to even do anything if theres no afterlife.

Im just pointing this out because everyone keeps saying theres no facts about death. Your consciousness comes from your brain. When you die, your brain dies with you. Meaning its off. None of the functions it was previously operating are running. The only rational assumption of what happens after you die would be nothing. Exactly like before you were born, things were happening but you didn't even have a thought. A dead brain is the same as a non-existent brain in that sense. ManifestoJoe

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

Wait, did Hawkings basically describe humans as the waste product of an infinitely more magnificent universe?

GabuEx

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

Im just pointing this out because everyone keeps saying theres no facts about death. Your consciousness comes from your brain. When you die, your brain dies with you. Meaning its off. None of the functions it was previously operating are running. The only rational assumption of what happens after you die would be nothing. Exactly like before you were born, things were happening but you didn't even have a thought. A dead brain is the same as a non-existent brain in that sense. ManifestoJoe

Does one's consciousness come from one's brain, or is one's brain simply a client accessed from something external to it, much as a computer terminal is a conduit to the computer's contents? What even is consciousness; what does it mean to be conscious? If one's consciousness is solely a product of one's brain, then what if an exact replica of one's brain were created and put into another human. Would one perceive oneself as being conscious in both bodies at the same time? If not, then how could it be said that the physical structure of the brain is the only thing that gives rise to consciousness?

There have been many times in reality where an incorrect conclusion was made based on an incomplete set of observations.

[QUOTE="ManifestoJoe"]Im just pointing this out because everyone keeps saying theres no facts about death. Your consciousness comes from your brain. When you die, your brain dies with you. Meaning its off. None of the functions it was previously operating are running. The only rational assumption of what happens after you die would be nothing. Exactly like before you were born, things were happening but you didn't even have a thought. A dead brain is the same as a non-existent brain in that sense. foxhound_fox

Reading Karen Armstrong's "A History of God" I find it kind of surprising how even after the Council of Nicaea, there is yet no mention of "heaven" or "hell" as literal places in either scripture or debate. What is most important to these early Christians is developing the theology surrounding the nature of God, and whether or not Jesus is OF divine essence, or caused by it, and what it means to be a Christian (at that early point, it was to imitate Christ perfectly, not gain favour and go to Heaven). It is kind of amazing how different Christianity of today is to that of the pre-Catholic Church and pre-Reformation forms.foxhound_fox

There are Church's out there who believe what you described (to imitate Jesus Christ or to live as Jesus Christ lived and be like Him). One is the Church is Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

Wait, did Hawkings basically describe humans as the waste product of an infinitely more magnificent universe?

brandontwb

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

Compared to the size of the universe, humans are tiny, insignificant specks. If an asteroid were to cause the extinction of humanity, the universe and the world would carry on as it always has, oblivious either to our existence or nonexistence - just as it did upon the extinction of the dinosaurs, and indeed upon the extinction of the 99% of species that have ever lived on this planet. I don't understand how anyone can not view the world in this way. That one does not like a conclusion is no reason to reject it.

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

GabuEx

Compared to the size of the universe, humans are tiny, insignificant specks. If an asteroid were to cause the extinction of humanity, the universe and the world would carry on as it always has, oblivious either to our existence or nonexistence - just as it did upon the extinction of the dinosaurs, and indeed upon the extinction of the 99% of species that have ever lived on this planet. I don't understand how anyone can not view the world in this way. That one does not like a conclusion is no reason to reject it.

Where is that one Video which shows Earth and then expands to show the many stars and sizes - it really shows the magnitude of the Universe and how small we really are.

Its pretty much well known that Stephen Hawking is an athiest, and pretty much most of the brightest minds are.

[QUOTE="ManifestoJoe"]Im just pointing this out because everyone keeps saying theres no facts about death. Your consciousness comes from your brain. When you die, your brain dies with you. Meaning its off. None of the functions it was previously operating are running. The only rational assumption of what happens after you die would be nothing. Exactly like before you were born, things were happening but you didn't even have a thought. A dead brain is the same as a non-existent brain in that sense. GabuEx

Does one's consciousness come from one's brain, or is one's brain simply a client accessed from something external to it, much as a computer terminal is a conduit to the computer's contents? What even is consciousness; what does it mean to be conscious? If one's consciousness is solely a product of one's brain, then what if an exact replica of one's brain were created and put into another human. Would one perceive oneself as being conscious in both bodies at the same time? If not, then how could it be said that the physical structure of the brain is the only thing that gives rise to consciousness?

There have been many times in reality where an incorrect conclusion was made based on an incomplete set of observations.

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Well one does have to admit that, given the scale and magnitude of the universe, humans do certainly seem certainly rather inconsequential.

GabuEx

Compared to the size of the universe, humans are tiny, insignificant specks. If an asteroid were to cause the extinction of humanity, the universe and the world would carry on as it always has, oblivious either to our existence or nonexistence - just as it did upon the extinction of the dinosaurs, and indeed upon the extinction of the 99% of species that have ever lived on this planet. I don't understand how anyone can not view the world in this way. That one does not like a conclusion is no reason to reject it.

I hate when people try to prove there is no afterlife, why would you even want to try and do that?? I mean if there was no afterlife then why are we even here?? If there is no afterlife then we shouldn't be smart enough to question if there is an afterlife. I believe there is some sort of an afterlife, I just really hate when people try to make it seem like there isn't one "Yeah your here for 80 years but when you die you don't go anywhere" seems like such a waste to even do anything if theres no afterlife.

joshrocks2245

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]I don't understand how anyone can view the world in this way... In what world would be all important? What is this perfect world of human importance people are referring to? We are only as consequential as your point of reference. Why can't we be amazing super-giants? To bacteria we are!brandontwb

Compared to the size of the universe, humans are tiny, insignificant specks. If an asteroid were to cause the extinction of humanity, the universe and the world would carry on as it always has, oblivious either to our existence or nonexistence - just as it did upon the extinction of the dinosaurs, and indeed upon the extinction of the 99% of species that have ever lived on this planet. I don't understand how anyone can not view the world in this way. That one does not like a conclusion is no reason to reject it.

Any world in which our impact on it is greater than the one in which we currently live. :P

This has no implied bearing on the way in which one ought to look at oneself or humanity. It's just stating a fact.

[QUOTE="ManifestoJoe"]Im just pointing this out because everyone keeps saying theres no facts about death. Your consciousness comes from your brain. When you die, your brain dies with you. Meaning its off. None of the functions it was previously operating are running. The only rational assumption of what happens after you die would be nothing. Exactly like before you were born, things were happening but you didn't even have a thought. A dead brain is the same as a non-existent brain in that sense. GabuEx

Does one's consciousness come from one's brain, or is one's brain simply a client accessed from something external to it, much as a computer terminal is a conduit to the computer's contents? What even is consciousness; what does it mean to be conscious? If one's consciousness is solely a product of one's brain, then what if an exact replica of one's brain were created and put into another human. Would one perceive oneself as being conscious in both bodies at the same time? If not, then how could it be said that the physical structure of the brain is the only thing that gives rise to consciousness?

There have been many times in reality where an incorrect conclusion was made based on an incomplete set of observations.

Definition of CONSCIOUSNESS

1 a : the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself b : the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact c : awareness; especially : concern for some social or political cause
2 : the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : mind

And what you're talking about is a clone I believe. And that type of clone is fiction but i'll answer it. It would be two seperate entites having their own experiences. Everything about the brain, and the person the brain in essense creates, is the same. It is now just two seperate individuals. They wouldn't share what the other percieves anymore then you percieving my experiences. Once you take the brain, and even if its and exact replica, it will change based on the experiences it percieves. It will not stay the same as brains change and develope.

To answer the original question, Stephen will find out one way or another when he dies. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but as for me I really don't put much weight on his babbling.:o

when it comes to questions like this, its all about perspective.

[QUOTE="CaveJohnson1"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Intelligence is basically at its heart a measure of one's ability to use knowledge to create real-world results or applications, or to discover new knowledge. Considering that there is effectively no knowledge surrounding the topic of an afterlife, one's intelligence is basically irrelevant when it comes to one's thoughts about that subject.

GabuEx

I don't see the logic of believing in something without any evidence though.

The logic is entirely philosophical in nature; there's no hard evidence that it's based on.

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Compared to the size of the universe, humans are tiny, insignificant specks. If an asteroid were to cause the extinction of humanity, the universe and the world would carry on as it always has, oblivious either to our existence or nonexistence - just as it did upon the extinction of the dinosaurs, and indeed upon the extinction of the 99% of species that have ever lived on this planet. I don't understand how anyone can not view the world in this way. That one does not like a conclusion is no reason to reject it.

GabuEx

Any world in which our impact on it is greater than the one in which we currently live. :P

This has no implied bearing on the way in which one ought to look at oneself or humanity. It's just stating a fact.

I would assume it comes from the brain as I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Definition of CONSCIOUSNESS

1 a : the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself b : the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact c : awareness; especially : concern for some social or political cause
2 : the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : mind

And what you're talking about is a clone I believe. And that type of clone is fiction but i'll answer it. It would be two seperate entites having their own experiences. Everything about the brain, and the person the brain in essense creates, is the same. It is now just two seperate individuals. They wouldn't share what the other percieves anymore then you percieving my experiences. Once you take the brain, and even if its and exact replica, it will change based on the experiences it percieves. It will not stay the same as brains change and develope.

ManifestoJoe

Yes, but that's just it. If one's consciousness is entirely determined by one's physical brain, then an identical physical brain should give rise to an identical consciousness. Of course the example is fiction. It's a thought experiment.

[QUOTE="joshrocks2245"]

I hate when people try to prove there is no afterlife, why would you even want to try and do that?? I mean if there was no afterlife then why are we even here?? If there is no afterlife then we shouldn't be smart enough to question if there is an afterlife. I believe there is some sort of an afterlife, I just really hate when people try to make it seem like there isn't one "Yeah your here for 80 years but when you die you don't go anywhere" seems like such a waste to even do anything if theres no afterlife.

foxhound_fox

It really doesn't make sense to me to do so much here if we don't go anywhere when we die. Helping people doesn't really matter to me if they are all just going to die anyways and not end up in an afterlife. I can't live life to the fullest if theres not an afterlife, whats the point?? Whats the point of even being healthy or caring about anything at all?? If theres no afterlife then every single thing that has happened on this earth has been a complete waste.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="CaveJohnson1"]there's logic, he explained his.

I don't see the logic of believing in something without any evidence though.

CaveJohnson1

The logic is entirely philosophical in nature; there's no hard evidence that it's based on.

When did I say it had no logic behind it?

The fact remains that there is no evidence that his conclusion is based on. It's based entirely on analogy and other philosophical tools.

[QUOTE="ManifestoJoe"]

I would assume it comes from the brain as I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Definition of CONSCIOUSNESS

1 a : the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself b : the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact c : awareness; especially : concern for some social or political cause
2 : the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : mind

And what you're talking about is a clone I believe. And that type of clone is fiction but i'll answer it. It would be two seperate entites having their own experiences. Everything about the brain, and the person the brain in essense creates, is the same. It is now just two seperate individuals. They wouldn't share what the other percieves anymore then you percieving my experiences. Once you take the brain, and even if its and exact replica, it will change based on the experiences it percieves. It will not stay the same as brains change and develope.

GabuEx

Yes, but that's just it. If one's consciousness is entirely determined by one's physical brain, then an identical physical brain should give rise to an identical consciousness. Of course the example is fiction. It's a thought experiment.

[QUOTE="CaveJohnson1"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

The logic is entirely philosophical in nature; there's no hard evidence that it's based on.

GabuEx

When did I say it had no logic behind it?

The fact remains that there is no evidence that his conclusion is based on. It's based entirely on analogy and other philosophical tools.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="ManifestoJoe"]

I would assume it comes from the brain as I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Definition of CONSCIOUSNESS

1 a : the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself b : the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact c : awareness; especially : concern for some social or political cause
2 : the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : mind

And what you're talking about is a clone I believe. And that type of clone is fiction but i'll answer it. It would be two seperate entites having their own experiences. Everything about the brain, and the person the brain in essense creates, is the same. It is now just two seperate individuals. They wouldn't share what the other percieves anymore then you percieving my experiences. Once you take the brain, and even if its and exact replica, it will change based on the experiences it percieves. It will not stay the same as brains change and develope.

ManifestoJoe

Yes, but that's just it. If one's consciousness is entirely determined by one's physical brain, then an identical physical brain should give rise to an identical consciousness. Of course the example is fiction. It's a thought experiment.

And if they didn't (again, a thought experiment), then would you perceive yourself as being conscious in both bodies? If not, why not? What would make you "you" and your clone a different entity?

I think steven hawkings is now the dumbest man alive because he has used the reasoning of a 10 year old and said that the afterlife is for people who fear death.

Do I fear death? No. Ya, I do think that there is a heaven but it's not because I fear death. It is because that is what I truly believe. And when there is doubt in my mind and I think that there is none, I really don't care, because I shoudln't be afraid of something that I wont even get to experience.

I'm afraid of meeting an angry wolf in the forest of night because I will have to experience it's attack. I'm afraid of falling because I will have to experience the fall. I am not afraid of death and no afterlife because I will simply not have a spirit/soul to care.

[QUOTE="ManifestoJoe"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Yes, but that's just it. If one's consciousness is entirely determined by one's physical brain, then an identical physical brain should give rise to an identical consciousness. Of course the example is fiction. It's a thought experiment.

GabuEx

And if they didn't (again, a thought experiment), then would you perceive yourself as being conscious in both bodies? If not, why not? What would make you "you" and your clone a different entity?

It really doesn't make sense to me to do so much here if we don't go anywhere when we die. Helping people doesn't really matter to me if they are all just going to die anyways and not end up in an afterlife. I can't live life to the fullest if theres not an afterlife, whats the point?? Whats the point of even being healthy or caring about anything at all?? If theres no afterlife then every single thing that has happened on this earth has been a complete waste.joshrocks2245

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]Whether or not there is an afterlife, what matters most is what we do here and now, since this is the only life we "know" we get. Hoping for an afterlife is as detrimental as hoping for non-existence after death... what we really should hope for is our ability to make the best of what we have and don't just throw it away or make other people suffer because of it.JJ_Productions

can you explain to me then why there are so many religions if only one is "true" and how did the greeks, romans etc came up with some "gods"

[QUOTE="joshrocks2245"]It really doesn't make sense to me to do so much here if we don't go anywhere when we die. Helping people doesn't really matter to me if they are all just going to die anyways and not end up in an afterlife. I can't live life to the fullest if theres not an afterlife, whats the point?? Whats the point of even being healthy or caring about anything at all?? If theres no afterlife then every single thing that has happened on this earth has been a complete waste.foxhound_fox

Well the only things that are keeping me here is my enjoyment for things like video games or hanging out with friends, I don't care about having people remember me or things like that, I don't really care about going to college or waste my time working 8 hours a day for everyday of my life. I mean if theres no afterlife then why should I bother doing anything that is boring?? People might think it's stupid but seriously whats the point of wasting your time doing these things and trying to be such a great person if none of this matters when we die, pointless.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="joshrocks2245"]It really doesn't make sense to me to do so much here if we don't go anywhere when we die. Helping people doesn't really matter to me if they are all just going to die anyways and not end up in an afterlife. I can't live life to the fullest if theres not an afterlife, whats the point?? Whats the point of even being healthy or caring about anything at all?? If theres no afterlife then every single thing that has happened on this earth has been a complete waste.joshrocks2245

Well the only things that are keeping me here is my enjoyment for things like video games or hanging out with friends, I don't care about having people remember me or things like that, I don't really care about going to college or waste my time working 8 hours a day for everyday of my life. I mean if theres no afterlife then why should I bother doing anything that is boring?? People might think it's stupid but seriously whats the point of wasting your time doing these things and trying to be such a great person if none of this matters when we die, pointless.

Why would it matter if there were an afterlife?

Stephen Hawking is the most brilliant mind of our generation, but I don't see what makes his thoughts on the afterlife bear any more weight than anyone else's. This kind of reminds me of this comic strip.

GabuEx

Gabu stole my next question.foxhound_fox

Sorry. :oops:

I can tell you all exactly what awaits us after death. think of what you remember before you were born. think of what you experieinced before you were born. that is what death will be akin to.

I can tell you all exactly what awaits us after death. think of what you remember before you were born. think of what you experieinced before you were born. that is what death will be akin to.

arbitor365

Okay then...

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

I can tell you all exactly what awaits us after death. think of what you remember before you were born. think of what you experieinced before you were born. that is what death will be akin to.

Necrifer

Okay then...

the answer is nothing. total lack of consciousness.

He says a lot of things I don't understand.KiIIyou

Like the pic in your sig. How does a person bend like that?

[QUOTE="KiIIyou"]He says a lot of things I don't understand.Hatiko

Like the pic in your sig. How does a person bend like that?

[QUOTE="joshrocks2245"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] Your logic is that life is meaningless without an afterlife, correct? Then wouldn't it be also logical that you are just wasting your time here, so expediting the process of going to this afterlife would beneficial, no? What is keeping you alive here on Earth if nothing of it is any meaning? What is motivating you to do anything at all if all of what you do amounts to nothing anyways? This idea had never made sense to me. I find the life-denying attitude as a whole to be completely irrational. Even if there is a God, and a Heaven... why would that God not want you to live the life he gifted you to its fullest, and do the same for all others? GabuEx

Well the only things that are keeping me here is my enjoyment for things like video games or hanging out with friends, I don't care about having people remember me or things like that, I don't really care about going to college or waste my time working 8 hours a day for everyday of my life. I mean if theres no afterlife then why should I bother doing anything that is boring?? People might think it's stupid but seriously whats the point of wasting your time doing these things and trying to be such a great person if none of this matters when we die, pointless.

Why would it matter if there were an afterlife?

Because if there was one I could do all that stuff, like go to college and have a family and then I could celebrate what I did here in the afterlife, and I would celebrate the good things I did and that would pay off in the afterlife. Thats why it matters, I could do all the boring stuff on this life and then have a great afterlife.