Thanks to Trump, It's Safe to Say "Merry Christmas" Again

The problem with libertarianism... like anything is when it becomes dogmatic. "The Government is the cause of all our problems", "less government is the panacea"... I have seen these arguments from libertarians quite often.

Some libertarian ideas do carry merit. Others are of course, complete nonsense. The Austrian School of economics is by large, garbage. The government should be involved in areas where it makes sense, in ways it makes sense.

My favorite thing is when you have a few tools like Rand Paul who base their entire worldview on Jesus Christ and Ayn Rand... two completely contradictory viewpoints.

That's what I never got, the worship in the libertarian and many folks on the right mythologizing Ayn Rand. She was a callous, racist piece of shit who made unreadable books about assholes who dont know why the world does not praise them. She hated the poor and social services of any kind, yet died on social security. Still, the spell is not broken.

Not to mention, she was insanely out of touch. Those things she shunned, empathy, altruism, ect. Were selected via natural selection (granted, her views on evolution were questionable, seemingly having some difficulties accepting that man is an animal).

There is a reason those traits exist within every single social species. Because we need those traits to function as a social species. Had humanity followed her ideas, we would still be in the neolithic era.

The spell lives on via rationalization. Try bringing it up next time you meet a randroid. Their excuses are golden.

If her way was the maxim for all, I doubt humans would be around for very long. The cross pollination in which societies interbred, innovated, and shared knowledge would be impossible. We would fight and disease each other into extinction.

Ayn Rand knew that her ideas obviously conflicted with Jesus' teachings. I suspect Paul does as well.

Considering the words Ayn rand said about Christianity. Very likely.

Rand Paul... not so much.

@toast_burner: Im not opposed to those calling out those on the right. I just thought it was funny he used the term "Snowflake" because its usually a term the right used to describe the left. Then he started talking about beta males and geeks and thats when hypocrisy hit an all time high.

Look theres no question people get offended on both sides but I find the left seems to get offended far more often and also seem far less tolerant. Look at the simple reaction i got when i talked about Marvels obvious pandering. Im not even against diversity in comics just the changing of race/gender and sexuality of existing heroes. Even Stan lee had an issue with it. And i get told im a crying, alt right , racist! Lol.... its like arguing with children. Theres virtually no dialogue just "you're wrong and im going to insult you".

It was always safe. Despite what Christian right wingers think, Christmas at large is mostly celebrated as a secular holiday in the US.

Again how is it hypocritical unless you can show that he fits that criteria too? Saying that some people on the left are like that means nothing, the left is not a hive mind. Stop with your pathetic us vs them bullshit.

People called out out on your Marvel example because you blatantly lied. you claimed they changed the sex or race of the majority of their characters when in reality only a very small amount were changed.

Assuming he reads both as he claims, how can he not? It doesn't require much reading between the lines - Rand all but explicitly calls it out herself.

At large? I doubt that. It's both.

The same reason you have some Christians think that Jesus was a hardcore capitalist.

@toast_burner: A large portion of the left are like that and it fits the stereotype. It be about the equivalent of a black man calling a white man a poor thug over the internet without even knowing the person. Hes simply projecting his steriotype onto someone else.

And no I didn't lie. I said they changed the majority of the race/gender "OF THEIR MOST RELEVANT CHARACTERS" when i mean relevant i mean most popular. Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man all fit that criteria as they are Marvels most recognized characters. What do they all have in common? They were white men who have all been swapped out. Then the ridiculous argument of (its only a small %)is absolutely horrendous. That's like saying Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Arron Rodgers, JJwatt, Eli Manning and Ben Rothilberger all left the NFL in one year. And someone arguing it's no big deal because its only 6 players.

But you weren't just randomly called something. You perfectly fit the description of hypocritical, thin skinned, safe space seeking, sjw. It's not projection you've proven yourself in this thread to be all those things.

Even if you just go by their most popular it still makes up a small portion. Also not a single one of those characters had a change of race or sex. There's been different characters use those heroes alias, but that's it. The Flash has been four different white guys, so why would having a black guy use the costume be a bad thing? You're putting an unusual emphasis on the characters race. Thats another criteria of being an SJW pretending to care. You clearly don't read comics, so why are you so angry about this?

@toast_burner: I fit the description because i debated one issue? Am i standing outside with picket signs demanding they change them back? A little dramatic much? It doesn't offend me it annoys me and thats the thing you weak sjws cant grasp. There's a difference.

And if its no big deal then why aren't they doing it to any of the black heroes or female heroes? Since theres no agenda being pushed and there just mixing things up why is it only one demographic they always change?

Well since you specified that they have to be popular characters and that they also have to be originals (i.e black captain america being replaced with a white guy won't count) then who exactly is left to be replaced? Luke Cage? This may come as a shock to you, but most of the famous superheroes are white guys.

The Onion: Nation’s Oppressed Christians Huddle Underground To Light Single Shriveled Christmas Shrub

@toast_burner: Yet they will never touch Luke Cage, Blade or Black Panther. Not saying they should either. They should leave the originals alone and make NEW heroes.

So why aren't you angry about them changing the flash?

Why is it only when the new character is black that it becomes an issue?

Im still waiting for you to explain why anyone should be concerned and/or against any of this and how its not perfectly in line with the issues Marvel has been tackling for decades and the tactics they've taken to address these issues for decades. I did notice that after i quoted Stan Lee on this subject and he basically said you're full of shit, you avoided responding.

I still dont get why as a comic collector and someone who has been reading comics for decades, this is an issue i should be concerned with. This is one of the funny things that people who always say "all you want to do is say someone is racist!"... im giving you every possible chance to explain to me why i should be concerned with this. Why it should be an issue at all. And you or no one else, has been able to give me something beyond "because someone is turning black" but then you wonder why people make the claims again you that they do...... Vocalize something more important than this, something that actually changes the character in a negative way, and i have no problems actually considering it and hey, maybe ill agree! But right now, as it stands, this is the only thing youve handed us and then some how you're surprised when we reach the obvious conclusion.

And no I didn't lie. I said they changed the majority of the race/gender "OF THEIR MOST RELEVANT CHARACTERS" when i mean relevant i mean most popular. Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man all fit that criteria as they are Marvels most recognized characters.

You changed this tune after it was demonstrated to you that these changes happened in less than 20 of 7000 characters. Before this, for 3 pages, you never made this distinction.

That's like saying Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Arron Rodgers, JJwatt, Eli Manning and Ben Rothilberger all left the NFL in one year. And someone arguing it's no big deal because its only 6 players.

No its not and honestly i dont even know where to go with this.....

It doesn't offend me it annoys me and thats the thing you weak sjws cant grasp. There's a difference.

That's a pretty thin line yes? At this point you're simply rationalizing these things. Fact is you still cannot grasp that these are fictional characters who are regularly altered in many different ways and you have yet to explain why anyone should be concerned.

Since theres no agenda being pushed and there just mixing things up why is it only one demographic they always change?

There is an agenda being pushed... Stan Lee outlined it for you and its the agenda he implemented day one of Marvel comics.

@toast_burner: Flash isnt Marvel hes DC comics. And DC hasn't changed there most popular super heroes race/gender all at once.

You're splitting hairs, but if you insist why is it only the black captain America you have a problem with and not the multiple white ones?

And why when you clearly don't read comics are you so upset about them?

Ah yes because we can't objectively point out that Clinton and Obama are objectively horrible people based upon documented policies they have done through out their careers (and basically any politician for that matter).. And this is coming from a liberal who is an agnostic atheist. This identity politics on both sides is absolutely nauseating.

You know its possible to lie about and slander horrible people?

You and I both know when used in such a way it's basically to insinuate that what ever criticism, real or other wise, is being blanketed as such.. We see this shit on both sides all the time regardless if its fictitious or factual..

And therefore you should assume all criticism is real? Obama is a Kenyan communist, Hilary is dying, the democrat party is run by Satan, and theres currently a war on Christmas? Sorry but I'm not following your logic, why don't we just call out lies and point out the truth regardless who it's about?

I agree completely, still waiting for that though.. It hasn't happened yet, we still have people putting their horrible people on pedestals on both sides.

@toast_burner: Its not just the black captain America. Honestly i wouldn't have a problem with him if they did it for a limited time and moved on. But to do it to all your most popular heroes ALL AT ONCE ? Thats the problem, the whole avengers roster screams pander express.

And whats hillarious is the double standard. You say its no big deal.. but we all know if Powerman, Blade, Black Panther were turned white and Captain Marvel , Storm and Phoenix were all turned into men it would be a HUGE deal.

Why does it matter if they make the new version of a hero black or white? How does it negatively effect anything?

@toast_burner: Outside of shitty writing and making no sense id say look at the psychology behind it all. White Captain America is actually supposed to be a undercover Hydra agent the whole time. Not only does that make no sense but it says hey... white Captain America is actually a evil douche.

You do realise that they're different people, right? Black captain america is called Isiah Bradley his backstory does not involve being undercover. He was experimented on by the Nazi's along with several other African Americans. He steals Captain Americas uniform to help him fight the Nazi's and becomes a civil rights figure.

Again why are you getting upset about comics when you clearly don't read them?

It's also worth noting that Dr. Xavier and Magneto were based on Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, respectively. In fact, X-Men as a whole was based on the civil rights movement, with white mutants taking the place of black people.

@toast_burner: Except again you talk about something that im not even talking about. The black Captain America is Sam Wilson formerly known as Falcon. And ive read for comics for years but not anymore.. why would I?

So you're angry about already established character taking the title more so than a character made to take the title?

What point are you even trying to make? You are yet to establish how any of this negatively impacts anything.

@toast_burner: Im angry they will find whatever pandering pitiful excuse to make their current (white male) heroes no longer exist.

The negative impact is relative to your belief system.

So im assuming this list is the reasons why these things are a negative....

Except this is not really the case is it?

And you know its not really the case because you regularly read comics right?

And you're not just plucking out a story someone else told you about this scenario (that was left open ended at the end of a comic and then continued later on... which... someone seems to not want to mention) and then repeating it without actually reading the story and events.

.....maybe you don't actually read Captain America and maybe you're not in a good position at all to determine what makes sense in the story or what even happened.

I call bullshit.

I dont doubt youve read some comics in your lifetime and have probably read a few on a regular basis when you were younger. But you dont care about these characters, you dont care about the books and you dont collect or read them. I have no problems saying this because youve been as wrong as anyone can be every single time you attempt to talk specifics about these comics.

Of course the most telling part of this is your complete avoidance of responding to myself or someone else, when they correct you (and its correcting, not an opinioned response, correcting information youre getting wrong) on these instances.

15 of 7000.

What percentage of 7000 do you think are white? 95? Maybe a bit higher? 97?

How about female? What percentage do you think are females? 15? 20?

This is why its hard to anyone seriously when dealing with this topic, let alone yourself who has proven at every turn you dont pay attention to comics or care about them at all, while attempting to tell other people whats going on. Youre not even willing to apply the fact that most of these characters, are not altered, they are new characters taking over an established role. .... again, much like the altering, is something that if you read comics at all, you'd know is a regular practice and you'd have a nice long list of issues you bring up before "this guys now black".

Id also like to point out that you said you have not read comics for years, so why are you such an angry little boy over something that you dont even participate in? I find this rather funny dont you? People like yourself who claim to have once read comics but seem to know nothing about them, say you take issue with this and are angry about it, yet those who regularly buy and read comics, dont. Funny how that works out.

Exactly. We have 3 positions here, "3 belief systems" at work.

1. The people who believe that race is something to take issue with and "for some reason" think that a character swapping races actually matters. Which almost always seems to come from people who have some kind of race issues. This is the category you seem to fall in.

2. The people who want other races to be more represented in these stories. Because for some reason they think that race swapping actually matters. Which tends to comes from people who simply want to see races better represented to help break down stereotypes and potentially racist ideas... This list includes STAN FUCKING LEE and in comics it originates with STAN FUCKING LEE.

3. Then there is everyone else who does not care because its not an issue either way. Because what matters is the characters overall story arc and how they are written. These are the people who will take issues with rewriting characters, but wont do so for a reason like race. It will be because the character is dramatically changed to the point where it makes no sense.

This is the category i seem to fall in. Of the new characters the only one i take issue with is Wolverine and that is simply because i dislike the direction they have taken her.... which btw, could very easily be changed without changing the gender. But the other characters, they are all relatively the exact same.

It had already been established that the heroes get constantly replaced in the marvel universe. And The New Cast of heroes was supposedly quite well recieved with Female Thor recieving a boost in popularity, outselling the male thor by quite a bit. The decision to make a female Thor, was done on the author's own accord, and his reasoning had nothing to do with SJWs.

As someone whose ancestors worshipped Thor, I take no offense to a female Thor. It is a seperate character, and even if it wasn't, it is an artistic license.

Thor still exists in the universe, and he is still a superhero. If you had bothered to read the comics or even look it up you would know this. The new Thor has been in the marvel universe for decades now.

The community here is just cool like that.

You base your doubt on what exactly?

Slap boobs on a norse god?

1. They didnt slap boobs on an established character or retconned someone's sex. The new Thor was an established character in the Marvel Universe since the 60s, who got her powers after she managed to obtain Mjölnir, both before and after she obtained the hammer, she interacted with Thor. So no, what happened is that an old supporting member of the cast got promoted, whereas the old Thor now goes by as Odinson (of course his old name was Thor Odinson)
2. The Thor in Marvel Universe, while based on the norse god, was not the actual norse god. Hence all the artistic liberties the artists and writers took when making the character. These changes are both in the narrative and the visualization. For starters... Loki is NOT Thor's brother in Norse mythology.

Just proves they and YOU don't think a female character can stand on her own unless it was a man first. Take a good look in the mirror, your sexism is showing.

What is with these baseless assertions and ridiculous conclusions?

What makes you assert I was angry?

My reaction to your post was that of a "Wut?", not anger.

Its also worth mentioning that even if they simply "slap boobs on a norse god", its not sexist, it would simply be extremely lazy.... it could be considered progress but not really the way we would want to go about it. The way we'd want to go about it is by doing exactly what they did.... But im not quite sure how one confuses sexism with laziness.

Just proves they and YOU don't think a female character can stand on her own unless it was a man first. Take a good look in the mirror, your sexism is showing.

Ive always generally found that the people who attempt to make "reverse" claims as a response to a claim, are in the wrong. We see the same thing from people who want to claim that affirmative action is racist, when maybe on paper and in a perfect world without the real world issues we face, (kind of like how trickle down economics works in theory but has never worked in practice) it might actually be. But we dont live in this theoretically perfect world. We live in the real world and in the real world there are very good reasons as to why we've needed to implement these ideas and are still having issues. Its something you might want to step back and take a look at.

No, not both. Christians take up a majority of the US citizenry, so it stands to reason that the 80% or so majority would not celebrate it in a secular manner. Why christians celebrate christmas at all in december is super odd to me, considering the Bible says when Jesus was born, farmers were tilling their fields, and shepherds were roaming their flocks. Flocks are not tended, and crops not tilled, in winter.

I don't really have anything more to say. I don't read comic books, so I have to leave this discussion to the cool kids in the room.

Yup, it seems often to be rooted in the phenomenon known as psychological projection.

But yeah, simply slapping on boobs on a norse god would have been lazy. Thank Odin that they didnt do that. And actually planned through this transition spanning through several comics over a period of time.

@kod: Did you read the Stan Lee quote i posted earlier? Stan lee is all for diversity in comics but really opposed to changing race/gender of existing characters. I posted his exact quote in responce to your other posts so he feels the same way I do. You can spin it all you want but he also sees no point in rewriting existing character that have been established . I have no problem with them introducing NEW characters. But simply doing race and gender swaps is lazy as hell and and always has been.

And i read X-Men comics regularly for over a decade. I love these characters and although id prefer to enjoy them in other mediums ( like games or movies) as opposed to comics.. it certainly doest mean i dont care about them. If you have no interest in seeing Logan return as Wolverine id say its you who cares nothing about these characters.