The Evils of Religion

[QUOTE="l34052"]I hate dogmatic self righteous religious nuts like the TC, the world would be a safer more harmonious place if religion dint exist.Dracargen

Dogmatic? Self-righteous? Nut?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and all of history disagrees with your hypothesis.

Well look at the guy that said that. His sig has some guy with desert eagles, grenades, rpgs, and el caminos....sarcasm but really, look at his sig.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="l34052"]I hate dogmatic self righteous religious nuts like the TC, the world would be a safer more harmonious place if religion dint exist.Dracargen

Dogmatic? Self-righteous? Nut?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and all of history disagrees with your hypothesis.

if there was no religion, take that total war number and times it by 5 and thats how many ars you would have...

That makes no sense whatsoever. Could you elaborate?

forgot the "w" on wars... my bad :P

[QUOTE="effthat"]

I love the way that the title of this topic is not at all what's in the original post. I also love the way there are 3 different arguements going on about things that the TC didn't write, imply, or otherwise include in his attempt to spread knowledge. Unfortunately, the same principles that the's telling the community about are springing forth to muddy the waters and destroy the beneficial elements of the discussion.

We like to fight. It's in our nature. If we weren't fighting, we'd be finding ways to be pissed off so we could fight! Religion may have been a contributing factor in a small amount of wars over documented history, but that was just the convenient excuse at the time. Thank you contributing posters to proving that we'll do anything to bring about conflict regardless of it's results.

Dracargen

I can't tell: Are you commending me or condemning me?

I'm commending, agreeing, and supporting. Incidently, so is everyone else, they just haven't realized it yet. Everyone is coming back and picking fights and it's not over a particular religious belief so isn't caused by religion. It's about the belief that religion causes wars.

Religion is an idea. An arbitrary sound to convey the acceptance of a particular set of beliefs. Religion cannot start any wars, only people. So what really is the source of evil here? An idea?

So there is no way he believes that? He is either a confused teenager or sarcastic? WTF?MrKittle

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="effthat"]

I love the way that the title of this topic is not at all what's in the original post. I also love the way there are 3 different arguements going on about things that the TC didn't write, imply, or otherwise include in his attempt to spread knowledge. Unfortunately, the same principles that the's telling the community about are springing forth to muddy the waters and destroy the beneficial elements of the discussion.

We like to fight. It's in our nature. If we weren't fighting, we'd be finding ways to be pissed off so we could fight! Religion may have been a contributing factor in a small amount of wars over documented history, but that was just the convenient excuse at the time. Thank you contributing posters to proving that we'll do anything to bring about conflict regardless of it's results.

effthat

I can't tell: Are you commending me or condemning me?

I'm commending, agreeing, and supporting. Incidently, so is everyone else, they just haven't realized it yet. Everyone is coming back and picking fights and it's not over a particular religious belief so isn't caused by religion. It's about the belief that religion causes wars.

Religion is an idea. An arbitrary sound to convey the acceptance of a particular set of beliefs. Religion cannot start any wars, only people. So what really is the source of evil here? An idea?

That's a good theory, but it can be responded to with: If the idea didn't exist, niether would the war.

What do you have to say to that?

[QUOTE="MrKittle"]So there is no way he believes that? He is either a confused teenager or sarcastic? WTF?foxhound_fox

It was not Dustman, and it was not sarcasm. The person was quite sure of his beliefs.

[QUOTE="MrKittle"]So there is no way he believes that? He is either a confused teenager or sarcastic? WTF?foxhound_fox

I know you are bashing me but seriously, that was good.

[QUOTE="MrKittle"]So there is no way he believes that? He is either a confused teenager or sarcastic? WTF?foxhound_fox

No, i dont believe he was quoting me.Was he?

My guess is that religion doesn't really have an impact on the amount of wars. It would be the same without religion, just for different reasons, like 'they have different-colored skin!' or 'their language uses that annoying throaty 'cchhh' sound!' or whatever.Zagrius

I would say the same.

My guess is that religion doesn't really have an impact on the amount of wars. It would be the same without religion, just for different reasons, like 'they have different-colored skin!' or 'their language uses that annoying throaty 'cchhh' sound!' or whatever.Zagrius

This would be my response...

We would just find a different reason to fight. A different idea that we feel passionately enough about to take others lives and potentially die in the process.

It was not Dustman, and it was not sarcasm. The person was quite sure of his beliefs.Dracargen

I know you are bashing me but seriously, that was good.MrKittle

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]It was not Dustman, and it was not sarcasm. The person was quite sure of his beliefs.foxhound_fox

I know you are bashing me but seriously, that was good.MrKittle

I just thought the picture was funny, it made me laugh.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]It was not Dustman, and it was not sarcasm. The person was quite sure of his beliefs.foxhound_fox

Are you sure?

In fact, I believe the cause of problems for humanity is AMERICA!

Just the other day, they said China's increase in military budget will cause world "instability" when they themselves account for nearly 100% of all modern wars, the largest military spending BY FAR, AND the only use of nuclear weapons in the history of humanity!

Arab_2008

dude, i truly believe you need to go sit down and have a glass of water. maybe some shut eye, too. really. everybody here can understand TC's post perfectly, even those who don't believe in any sort of belief, but you can't seem to, which makes me wonder. :S

dude, religion causes problems too since it's still a man-made organization. and that's a fact. dismissing such facts would be blindness+ignorance.

Are you sure?Dracargen

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]Are you sure?foxhound_fox

:lol: The irony makes it fun.

To the creator, you have already started a war of words on a gaming community!

Religion did not cause this, your bashing of religion did. This will continue as long as humans seek the truth and attempt to be on good terms with our creator, ignorant pathetic excuses for a human such as yourself will start wars, simple as that.

Arab_2008

He is right and you are wrong so deal with it.

[QUOTE="Arab_2008"]It makes sense that you guys can't read because I clearly wrote MODERN wars!!!Dracargen

Is America the cause of the wars going on in Ireland?

No wars in Ireland these days, unless they're doing it very quietly :P

We've managed to put aside the differences in our society and are currently building towards a better future. That sounds far to much like political nonsense but in this case its actually true.

Anyway, good topic, couldn't agree more. People who blame wars on religion are not only doing themselves a disservice but also other rational atheists who realise that humans are the causes of war not religion

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Congratulations you've just proven the existence of god!Hurray!!!

Oh, wait no you didnt.Then why is this important?

Dracargen

Do all religion topics have to be about the existence of God?

ummmm

YEAAAAAAAAAA

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Do all religion topics have to be about the existence of God? SentryGunner411

ummmm

YEAAAAAAAAAA

What if it's a discussion about Scientology, or Buddhism, or the Greek/Roman/Egyptian/Norse religions?

[QUOTE="Big_player"]O goody, it was only responsible for 123 wars:roll:Dracargen

Out of hundreds of thousands.:|

How many of those wars involved the soldiers being motivated by religion. I see you don't have World War 2 on there, but a major part of that war was discrimination against a certain religious group. And how can you possibly say that the "War on Terror" isn't religious. Even if religion isn't really at the root of everything, it's what motivated the bombers.

It's preposterous to say that if religion weren't around those wars still would have happened. Look at the Crusades, almost all of them were because the Bible reveres Jerusalem and says it's the holy city, almost all of them were about taking Jerusalem from the "heathens". It wasn't about politics or conquest, the goal was Jerusalem or some holy place revered in the Bible. Even if the people who started the Crusades had other motives (there is nothing to indicate they did) there is absolutely no chance that they would have ever gotten even a fraction of the support they had if it hadn't been for religion because the Bible clearly has no problem with murder if it's for a supposedly just cause and what's more just in its eyes than reclaiming the holiest place in the world from the unholy heathens?

The same can be said for the hundreds of bad things religion has caused and many of the wars. A religion is defined by its followers and if they've been regularly murdering, starting wars and torturing people for thousands of years then there's something wrong with that religion.

[QUOTE="SentryGunner411"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Do all religion topics have to be about the existence of God? Zagrius

ummmm

YEAAAAAAAAAA

What if it's a discussion about Scientology, or Buddhism, or the Greek/Roman/Egyptian/Norse religions?

What about them?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Big_player"]O goody, it was only responsible for 123 wars:roll:Tylendal

Out of hundreds of thousands.:|

How many of those wars involved the soldiers being motivated by religion. I see you don't have World War 2 on there, but a major part of that war was discrimination against a certain religious group. And how can you possibly say that the "War on Terror" isn't religious. Even if religion isn't really at the root of everything, it's what motivated the bombers.

With WW2, the Jews did not start it, Hitler did. This was not religions fault. I do agree that War on Terror should be in their though, there may be more factors but thats what pushed it over the edge, radical islams jacked a plane and hit our buildings.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

What if it's a discussion about Scientology, or Buddhism, or the Greek/Roman/Egyptian/Norse religions?

SentryGunner411

What about them?

Those would be religious discussion, but they don't have to deal with the existence of God at all.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Congratulations you've just proven the existence of god!Hurray!!!

Oh, wait no you didnt.Then why is this important?

SentryGunner411

Do all religion topics have to be about the existence of God?

ummmm

YEAAAAAAAAAA

Ummmmmmm

NUUUUUUUHHHHHHH :|

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Big_player"]O goody, it was only responsible for 123 wars:roll:Tylendal

Out of hundreds of thousands.:|

How many of those wars involved the soldiers being motivated by religion. I see you don't have World War 2 on there, but a major part of that war was discrimination against a certain religious group. And how can you possibly say that the "War on Terror" isn't religious. Even if religion isn't really at the root of everything, it's what motivated the bombers.

WW2 wasn't even remotely religious, and I said that the War on Terror can be debated as to whether or not it is religious.

O goody, it was only responsible for 123 wars:roll:Big_player

and the award for the least amount of wars caused goes to..................

RELIGION!!!....WOOHOO....let's have a religious partttyyy!!

It's preposterous to say that if religion weren't around those wars still would have happened. Look at the Crusades, almost all of them were because the Bible reveres Jerusalem and says it's the holy city, almost all of them were about taking Jerusalem from the "heathens". It wasn't about politics or conquest, the goal was Jerusalem or some holy place revered in the Bible. Even if the people who started the Crusades had other motives (there is nothing to indicate they did) there is absolutely no chance that they would have ever gotten even a fraction of the support they had if it hadn't been for religion because the Bible clearly has no problem with murder if it's for a supposedly just cause and what's more just in its eyes than reclaiming the holiest place in the world from the unholy heathens?

The same can be said for the hundreds of bad things religion has caused and many of the wars. A religion is defined by its followers and if they've been regularly murdering, starting wars and torturing people for thousands of years then there's something wrong with that religion.

WhiteWorld

By your logic, science is the single worst thing to ever happen to humanity and thus should be gotten rid of.

Ever hear of the A-bomb?

By the way, in the Bible, then ends do not justify the means, and murder is among them. A religion is defined by its text and Christians have not been killing for thousands of years--with that logic, America should be the most violent nation on Earth.:roll:

looks like you only counted islam/christian wars.. Religion served as a motivation for war even before the invention of Christianity.. Ever read the old testament. there are some really stellar justified atrocities in there, maintained as just because the opposition were godless heathens. the idea of religions influence of mans brutality is not merely wars motivated by religion, but the sence of superiority and "divine right" it has imprinted on it's believers. The Western powers conquest of other nations has almost always been wholly or partly motivated by either religion, or the sence that the religiously just had the duty to convert the savage and be their shepard, and lord over their 'lesser' humans. The colonization of the americas, south east Asia and Africa we're all at least partly influenced by religious motivation and the sence of moral and spiritual superiority it inspired. Social-darwinism was simply an attempt to explain what we already believed to be true with the use of "science". If it was genuinely believed or simply used an excuse is entirely beside the point. shivaskunk9mm

No. . .there are several other wars of religions up there.:|

Some of the "atrocities" in the Old Testament were justified by the fact that many of these heathens were sacrificing children to statues, not by the fact that they were godless (very few of them were, actually).

Moral superiority is bad, especially in the Bible, so what's your point? If it was used as an excuse then why do people blame religion for something that it had no part in, other than somebody's excuse?

Nice topic man. It backs up a lot of arguments that have been made about the downsides of religionsmcg69

What do you mean by this?

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]looks like you only counted islam/christian wars.. Religion served as a motivation for war even before the invention of Christianity.. Ever read the old testament. there are some really stellar justified atrocities in there, maintained as just because the opposition were godless heathens. the idea of religions influence of mans brutality is not merely wars motivated by religion, but the sence of superiority and "divine right" it has imprinted on it's believers. The Western powers conquest of other nations has almost always been wholly or partly motivated by either religion, or the sence that the religiously just had the duty to convert the savage and be their shepard, and lord over their 'lesser' humans. The colonization of the americas, south east Asia and Africa we're all at least partly influenced by religious motivation and the sence of moral and spiritual superiority it inspired. Social-darwinism was simply an attempt to explain what we already believed to be true with the use of "science". If it was genuinely believed or simply used an excuse is entirely beside the point. Dracargen

No. . .there are several other wars of religions up there.:|

Some of the "atrocities" in the Old Testament were justified by the fact that many of these heathens were sacrificing children to statues, not by the fact that they were godless (very few of them were, actually).

Moral superiority is bad, especially in the Bible, so what's your point? If it was used as an excuse then why do people blame religion for something that it had no part in, other than somebody's excuse?

[QUOTE="WhiteWorld"]

It's preposterous to say that if religion weren't around those wars still would have happened. Look at the Crusades, almost all of them were because the Bible reveres Jerusalem and says it's the holy city, almost all of them were about taking Jerusalem from the "heathens". It wasn't about politics or conquest, the goal was Jerusalem or some holy place revered in the Bible. Even if the people who started the Crusades had other motives (there is nothing to indicate they did) there is absolutely no chance that they would have ever gotten even a fraction of the support they had if it hadn't been for religion because the Bible clearly has no problem with murder if it's for a supposedly just cause and what's more just in its eyes than reclaiming the holiest place in the world from the unholy heathens?

The same can be said for the hundreds of bad things religion has caused and many of the wars. A religion is defined by its followers and if they've been regularly murdering, starting wars and torturing people for thousands of years then there's something wrong with that religion.

Dracargen

By your logic, science is the single worst thing to ever happen to humanity and thus should be gotten rid of.

Ever hear of the A-bomb?

By the way, in the Bible, then ends do not justify the means, and murder is among them. A religion is defined by its text and Christians have not been killing for thousands of years--with that logic, America should be the most violent nation on Earth.:roll:

I'm not religeous but I do agree that with religeous wars, religeon is only the justification, not the real motivation. Hateful people will find justification to do crazy **** reguardless of what they believe in.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]looks like you only counted islam/christian wars.. Religion served as a motivation for war even before the invention of Christianity.. Ever read the old testament. there are some really stellar justified atrocities in there, maintained as just because the opposition were godless heathens. the idea of religions influence of mans brutality is not merely wars motivated by religion, but the sence of superiority and "divine right" it has imprinted on it's believers. The Western powers conquest of other nations has almost always been wholly or partly motivated by either religion, or the sence that the religiously just had the duty to convert the savage and be their shepard, and lord over their 'lesser' humans. The colonization of the americas, south east Asia and Africa we're all at least partly influenced by religious motivation and the sence of moral and spiritual superiority it inspired. Social-darwinism was simply an attempt to explain what we already believed to be true with the use of "science". If it was genuinely believed or simply used an excuse is entirely beside the point. shivaskunk9mm

No. . .there are several other wars of religions up there.:|

Some of the "atrocities" in the Old Testament were justified by the fact that many of these heathens were sacrificing children to statues, not by the fact that they were godless (very few of them were, actually).

Moral superiority is bad, especially in the Bible, so what's your point? If it was used as an excuse then why do people blame religion for something that it had no part in, other than somebody's excuse?

"All are equal in God's sight." --The Bible.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."--The Bible.

"No one is without sin, not one."--The Bible.

You were saying?

By the way, when did Christians claim this of Muslims, and where in the Bible does it say that?

The funny thing is, most of those religious wars were for power or money too.

[QUOTE="smcg69"]Nice topic man. It backs up a lot of arguments that have been made about the downsides of religionDracargen

What do you mean by this?

Basically that the article doesn't do any damage to the belief that religion causes war. Nobody actually thinks religion causes all wars. I think 7 percent is still pretty high for what I would consider an unnecessary cause.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="smcg69"]Nice topic man. It backs up a lot of arguments that have been made about the downsides of religionsmcg69

What do you mean by this?

Basically that the article doesn't do any damage to the belief that religion causes war. Nobody actually thinks religion causes all wars. I think 7 percent is still pretty high for what I would consider an unnecessary cause.

Yes, people do think religion causes all wars (people have stated this belief several times on this very site) and seven percent, last I checked, was an incredibly low amount. Your opinion on whether or not it is unnecessary is absolutely irrelevant.

Too bad you didn't do an "amount of people killed" percentage. I'd be curious.Jandurin

I would estimate that the combined total of all those wars, based on Wikipedia estimations and simple educated guesstimating, would probably be slightly above the Holocaust.

[QUOTE="smcg69"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="smcg69"]Nice topic man. It backs up a lot of arguments that have been made about the downsides of religionDracargen

What do you mean by this?

Basically that the article doesn't do any damage to the belief that religion causes war. Nobody actually thinks religion causes all wars. I think 7 percent is still pretty high for what I would consider an unnecessary cause.

Yes, people do think religion causes all wars (people have stated this belief several times on this very site) and seven percent, last I checked, was an incredibly low amount. Your opinion on whether or not it is unnecessary is absolutely irrelevant.

Ok.. well that's just blantant stupidity. Seven percent may be a small proportion, but when it equates to 123 wars in total it is hardly insignificant.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="smcg69"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="smcg69"]Nice topic man. It backs up a lot of arguments that have been made about the downsides of religionsmcg69

What do you mean by this?

Basically that the article doesn't do any damage to the belief that religion causes war. Nobody actually thinks religion causes all wars. I think 7 percent is still pretty high for what I would consider an unnecessary cause.

Yes, people do think religion causes all wars (people have stated this belief several times on this very site) and seven percent, last I checked, was an incredibly low amount. Your opinion on whether or not it is unnecessary is absolutely irrelevant.

Ok.. well that's just blantant stupidity. Seven percent may be a small proportion, but when it equates to 123 wars in total it is hardly insignificant.

I never said it was insignificant (it is in the grand scheme of things), but the belief I'm going at is the belief that religion is responsible for most of the world's problems, a belief that is shown to be absolutely false, and that all religion combined has contributed less than ten percent to all wars and conflicts in history.

Long Post.Dracargen

Nice post TC! A refreshing point of view compared to the normal "Religion = teh evil!!11!one!" normally seen on OT.

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"]looks like you only counted islam/christian wars.. Religion served as a motivation for war even before the invention of Christianity.. Ever read the old testament. there are some really stellar justified atrocities in there, maintained as just because the opposition were godless heathens. the idea of religions influence of mans brutality is not merely wars motivated by religion, but the sence of superiority and "divine right" it has imprinted on it's believers. The Western powers conquest of other nations has almost always been wholly or partly motivated by either religion, or the sence that the religiously just had the duty to convert the savage and be their shepard, and lord over their 'lesser' humans. The colonization of the americas, south east Asia and Africa we're all at least partly influenced by religious motivation and the sence of moral and spiritual superiority it inspired. Social-darwinism was simply an attempt to explain what we already believed to be true with the use of "science". If it was genuinely believed or simply used an excuse is entirely beside the point. Dracargen

No. . .there are several other wars of religions up there.:|

Some of the "atrocities" in the Old Testament were justified by the fact that many of these heathens were sacrificing children to statues, not by the fact that they were godless (very few of them were, actually).

Moral superiority is bad, especially in the Bible, so what's your point? If it was used as an excuse then why do people blame religion for something that it had no part in, other than somebody's excuse?

"All are equal in God's sight." --The Bible.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."--The Bible.

"No one is without sin, not one."--The Bible.

You were saying?

By the way, when did Christians claim this of Muslims, and where in the Bible does it say that?

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread