The Evils of Religion

I was saying the bible, like pretty much all religious texts, preaches the superiority of it's followers. three words: god's chosen people. Exodus and Deuteronomy both preach of the superiority of Israelites. Half the old testatement is about god's preference to his own. People still use it today to claim rights to land most of them have no historic or ethnic belonging. It's called application to suit your needs. I never claimed the bible said msulims were baby eaters (mostly because islam was not invented during it's penning.)shivaskunk9mm

I'm sorry, but you have a very poor idea of what it means to be "God's chosen." Do you know why Jesus was crucified, instead of waging war on all of the infidels or whatever? Because of humility, a very important feeling that is stressed again and again by Jesus, the Apostles, Paul, and other founders of Christianity.

You said that Christians said that Muslims were baby-eaters, and you said that the Bible is the source of Christian violence, so where does the Bible say that?

By the way, you failed to address those little quotes I provided that completely contradict your idea of what the Bible says.

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread

comp_atkins

Somebody needs to retake history. . .

Religion: An insurance policy against death that disappears up in smoke the moment you try and claim on it.

There is nothing "after" death. You die. End of. PullTheTricker

and you know this... how?

[QUOTE="smcg69"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="smcg69"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="smcg69"]Nice topic man. It backs up a lot of arguments that have been made about the downsides of religionDracargen

What do you mean by this?

Basically that the article doesn't do any damage to the belief that religion causes war. Nobody actually thinks religion causes all wars. I think 7 percent is still pretty high for what I would consider an unnecessary cause.

Yes, people do think religion causes all wars (people have stated this belief several times on this very site) and seven percent, last I checked, was an incredibly low amount. Your opinion on whether or not it is unnecessary is absolutely irrelevant.

Ok.. well that's just blantant stupidity. Seven percent may be a small proportion, but when it equates to 123 wars in total it is hardly insignificant.

I never said it was insignificant (it is in the grand scheme of things), but the belief I'm going at is the belief that religion is responsible for most of the world's problems, a belief that is shown to be absolutely false, and that all religion combined has contributed less than ten percent to all wars and conflicts in history.

I agree with you that religion isn't the cause of most of the world's problems. I'm not trying to say that it is. The fact that it leads to some problems is what I have an issue with. That's simply down to my non-religious stance though. As you already said, this is irrelivant. From my perspective, it seems that the negative aspects of religion outweigh the positive. From a religious person's point of view, the opposite will probably be the case. I'm not going to try to change your opinion. There is no point. Ill let you believe what you want and Ill believe what I want.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread

Dracargen

Somebody needs to retake history. . .

enlighten me, oh wise one...

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread

comp_atkins

Somebody needs to retake history. . .

enlighten me, oh wise one...

The hundreds of thousands of priests, monks, baptists, and other theists killed by Stalin ring a bell?

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread

Dracargen

Somebody needs to retake history. . .

enlighten me, oh wise one...

The hundreds of thousands of priests, monks, baptists, and other theists killed by Stalin ring a bell?

killing for socialist / poilital reason != killing justified by atheism.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread

comp_atkins

Somebody needs to retake history. . .

enlighten me, oh wise one...

The hundreds of thousands of priests, monks, baptists, and other theists killed by Stalin ring a bell?

killing for socialist / poilital reason != killing justified by atheism.

Killing for socialist/political reason =/= justified by religion.;)

I myself find Dracargen's logic to be odd at times, but do you really think that he somehow came to the conclusion that

'religion isn't responsible for most wars in history = God exists'?

Zagrius

did he say that? no.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

wars started over no belief in god: 0

/thread

Dracargen

Somebody needs to retake history. . .

enlighten me, oh wise one...

The hundreds of thousands of priests, monks, baptists, and other theists killed by Stalin ring a bell?

killing for socialist / poilital reason != killing justified by atheism.

Killing for socialist/political reason =/= justified by religion.;)

this is true. :) but it is not valid to say that a war not caused by religion is therefore caused due to no belief. obvioulsy there are many different causes of wars and justifications for killing...

My my my. I can't believe some of the posts here, trying to change the intended subject to prove the TC wrong. Man, this reminds me of last December, where people bashing religion were either:

1. Misinterpreting to make religion look bad,
2. Make statements that were misguided,
3. Or just flame religion period.

All the TC was trying to say is that, compared to nonreligious wars, religious wars seem small, yet you guys are trying to make the religion wars seem more evil. Sorry, but in my eyes, Hitler is the Antichrist that was never mentioned in the Bible. No one will ever beat Hitler for pure evil.

My my my. I can't believe some of the posts here, trying to change the intended subject to prove the TC wrong. Man, this reminds me of last December, where people bashing religion were either:

1. Misinterpreting to make religion look bad,
2. Make statements that were misguided,
3. Or just flame religion period.

All the TC was trying to say is that, compared to nonreligious wars, religious wars seem small, yet you guys are trying to make the religion wars seem more evil. Sorry, but in my eyes, Hitler is the Antichrist that was never mentioned in the Bible. No one will ever beat Hitler for pure evil.

Fireball2500

You just summed up every religion topic here.

BTW, I think Nero Ceasar was far worse, and his name actually fits the 666 prediction.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

I myself find Dracargen's logic to be odd at times, but do you really think that he somehow came to the conclusion that

'religion isn't responsible for most wars in history = God exists'?

jlh47

did he say that? no.

What?

[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"] I was saying the bible, like pretty much all religious texts, preaches the superiority of it's followers. three words: god's chosen people. Exodus and Deuteronomy both preach of the superiority of Israelites. Half the old testatement is about god's preference to his own. People still use it today to claim rights to land most of them have no historic or ethnic belonging. It's called application to suit your needs. I never claimed the bible said msulims were baby eaters (mostly because islam was not invented during it's penning.)Dracargen

I'm sorry, but you have a very poor idea of what it means to be "God's chosen." Do you know why Jesus was crucified, instead of waging war on all of the infidels or whatever? Because of humility, a very important feeling that is stressed again and again by Jesus, the Apostles, Paul, and other founders of Christianity.

You said that Christians said that Muslims were baby-eaters, and you said that the Bible is the source of Christian violence, so where does the Bible say that?

By the way, you failed to address those little quotes I provided that completely contradict your idea of what the Bible says.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Too bad you didn't do an "amount of people killed" percentage. I'd be curious.Dracargen

I would estimate that the combined total of all those wars, based on Wikipedia estimations and simple educated guesstimating, would probably be slightly above the Holocaust.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Too bad you didn't do an "amount of people killed" percentage. I'd be curious.Jandurin

I would estimate that the combined total of all those wars, based on Wikipedia estimations and simple educated guesstimating, would probably be slightly above the Holocaust.

I'm comparing their combined casualities--don't get them mixed.

[QUOTE="Fireball2500"]

My my my. I can't believe some of the posts here, trying to change the intended subject to prove the TC wrong. Man, this reminds me of last December, where people bashing religion were either:

1. Misinterpreting to make religion look bad,
2. Make statements that were misguided,
3. Or just flame religion period.

All the TC was trying to say is that, compared to nonreligious wars, religious wars seem small, yet you guys are trying to make the religion wars seem more evil. Sorry, but in my eyes, Hitler is the Antichrist that was never mentioned in the Bible. No one will ever beat Hitler for pure evil.

Dracargen

You just summed up every religion topic here.

BTW, I think Nero Ceasar was far worse, and his name actually fits the 666 prediction.

many ppl attribute the refercences in revelation not to predictions but to refernces directly to nero. specifically due to his persecution of christians.. they were not predicting future doom. they were simply referrring to the present

I'm comparing their combined casualities--don't get them mixed.Dracargen

I really don't follow history, though.

Also, I read your "read this first". Doesn't seem very compassionate of you.

You mean the evils of man,not religion,religion doesn't promote war,at least Christianity doesn't.

And to say all those wars are solely based on religion is a bit of a stretch,power and wealth surround religion.

The evils of non-religion/aethiesm:

Ignorance/stupidity as seen in American & Israeli wars and your post!

Thanks for proving that!

Arab_2008

:P

The argument is: If religion wasn't used to justify the Crusades, skin color would have been , and so on.Dracargen

I am sorry, sir, but that is simply not true. If there was no religion, those wars would not even have happened.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]The argument is: If religion wasn't used to justify the Crusades, skin color would have been , and so on.luke1889

I am sorry, sir, but that is simply not true. If there was no religion, those wars would not even have happened.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]I'm comparing their combined casualities--don't get them mixed.Jandurin

I really don't follow history, though.

Also, I read your "read this first". Doesn't seem very compassionate of you.

[QUOTE="jlh47"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

I myself find Dracargen's logic to be odd at times, but do you really think that he somehow came to the conclusion that

'religion isn't responsible for most wars in history = God exists'?

Zagrius

did he say that? no.

What?

you heard what i said son.... jk

he didn't say that because religion hasn't caused most wars than that means God exists.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]I'm comparing their combined casualities--don't get them mixed.Jandurin

I really don't follow history, though.

Also, I read your "read this first". Doesn't seem very compassionate of you.

I know. And I think that's correct. I was only comparing all the casualties of the religious wars to the casualities of the Holocaust.

And I'm not compassionate to everyone.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]The argument is: If religion wasn't used to justify the Crusades, skin color would have been , and so on.luke1889

I am sorry, sir, but that is simply not true. If there was no religion, those wars would not even have happened.

Yes, they would have, in another form. Or do you deny that people in power tend to have a way of getting what they want?

Great post and I think you got you made the point you wanted to make even though some peopel chose to ignore it.rudyroundhead

BTW, Marvel vs. Capcom 2 could be the greatest fighting game ever.

If I were you, Dracargen, I would be trying to prove that without religion, there would be more wars.Jandurin

That's

1. Not possible, since that would require a different reality--in this world, in this history, we have religion, and while we may or may not be able to tell if something would happen anyway, all we know for sure is that it happened.

2. Another topic. That would require a discussion on the morality of religion and atheism.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="jlh47"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

I myself find Dracargen's logic to be odd at times, but do you really think that he somehow came to the conclusion that

'religion isn't responsible for most wars in history = God exists'?

jlh47

did he say that? no.

What?

you heard what i said son.... jk

he didn't say that because religion hasn't caused most wars than that means God exists.

Okay. So we agree. Thanks for bringing that up?

The only thing I think that is evil about religion, well Christianity/Catholicism anyway is that if you're a different religion or you don't believe in God, then you go to hell. That's such BS.

Wait, do you have to believe in Jesus to not go to hell also?

Intersting 19 pages of reading. Good read good read. Ravirr

This topic was actually kind of short, as far as most of my religion topics go. . .

The only thing I think that is evil about religion, well Christianity/Catholicism anyway is that if you're a different religion or you don't believe in God, then you go to hell. That's such BS.

Wait, do you have to believe in Jesus to not go to hell also?

Jandurin

"Nobody comes to the Father except through Me." --Jesus.

Why do you think that's BS? Jesus comes to Earth, sacrifices Himself, and then people go "Bah, Jesus didn't exist" or "Jesus was just a normal guy" and expect to be let by Him into Heaven?

Why do you think that's BS? Jesus comes to Earth, sacrifices Himself, and then people go "Bah, Jesus didn't exist" or "Jesus was just a normal guy" and expect to be let by Him into Heaven?Dracargen

I mean, I'm not a "bad" person by any means.

What about those who follow morally decent lives believing in a different religion?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]Why do you think that's BS? Jesus comes to Earth, sacrifices Himself, and then people go "Bah, Jesus didn't exist" or "Jesus was just a normal guy" and expect to be let by Him into Heaven?Jandurin

I mean, I'm not a "bad" person by any means.

What about those who follow morally decent lives believing in a different religion?

Good and bad are irrelevant.

What would happen if you were in Japan, and offered by somebody in an honored position something valuable (a house, a car, something big and nice), but you rejected it?

What would happen if you were in Japan, and offered by somebody in an honored position something valuable (a house, a car, something big and nice), but you rejected it?Dracargen

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]What would happen if you were in Japan, and offered by somebody in an honored position something valuable (a house, a car, something big and nice), but you rejected it?Jandurin

No. They would feel offended and ashamed, and then you, the one to bring about that shame, would have to compensate.

Apply that to Jesus, and there you go.

No. They would feel offended and ashamed, and then you, the one to bring about that shame, would have to compensate.

Apply that to Jesus, and there you go.

Dracargen

[QUOTE="Dracargen"] No. They would feel offended and ashamed, and then you, the one to bring about that shame, would have to compensate.

Apply that to Jesus, and there you go.

Jandurin

No, He's Jewish. And the Jews had a culture very similar to the Japanese back then.

No, He's Jewish. And the Jews had a culture very similar to the Japanese back then.Dracargen

Still, seems awfully snobbish. You don't want what I have? Fine, let me kick you in the balls instead.

I think a more likely parable is what if you were given an E-mail by someone claiming to be a Japanese in an honored position who is supposedly offering you something for free as long as you give him your personal details and pay up front for shipping & handling.Zagrius

:o

Indeed.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]Why do you think that's BS? Jesus comes to Earth, sacrifices Himself, and then people go "Bah, Jesus didn't exist" or "Jesus was just a normal guy" and expect to be let by Him into Heaven?Dracargen

I mean, I'm not a "bad" person by any means.

What about those who follow morally decent lives believing in a different religion?

Good and bad are irrelevant.

What would happen if you were in Japan, and offered by somebody in an honored position something valuable (a house, a car, something big and nice), but you rejected it?

I think you just answered your own question on why the idea of hell is b.s. It has nothing to do with morality. And your japan comparison doesn't fit. If you modified that to being offered a job that you can't even be sure exists, offered to you by a man who is not actually in position to give you the job, but claims to know the guy that can give you the job, and that you can get the job by reading a book and going through rituals every sunday what would happen? And all this time, the guy that can give you the job is watching from above and could step in at any time to tell you himself but instead decides to have some dude in a robe tell you about the job to make sure that you have "faith"

If you believe that all those wars were purely religous in nature, then you are naive. For instance, the crusades had huge economical reasons for their cause as well.

Besides, you can list hundreds of wars that didn't have religous causes. What's your point?

OMG - Jandurin in OT!!!!sonicare

Run for the hills! :lol:

How many times can I use song before it stops being funny to me?