The majority of people in the US Pro-Life for the first time in 15 years.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

If abortion is murder, then masterbation is mass genocide. Watch out, next those pro lifers will be coming after your masterbation privaleges.

McJugga

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

If abortion is murder, then masterbation is mass genocide. Watch out, next those pro lifers will be coming after your masterbation privaleges.

McJugga

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.

Therefore they are human

(Your logic not mine)

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

If abortion is murder, then masterbation is mass genocide. Watch out, next those pro lifers will be coming after your masterbation privaleges.

LostProphetFLCL

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.

Then when is a human created?

After three months? Is a fetus just a clump of cells, then bam! After three months it is suddenly a human?

Please, tell me, when is a human created?

You believe that a need for a host determines whether one is human or not?

McJugga

Whether something needs a host cell or not is how biology can differentiate between living things and non-living things that can do all the things living things can do but need a host cell.

It is why viruses are not regarded as living things, because they need a host cell to live. Why does the baby being human allow it to be an exception?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

You believe that a need for a host determines whether one is human or not?

Famiking

Whether something needs a host cell or not is how biology can differentiate between living things and non-living things that can do all the things living things can do but need a host cell.

It is why viruses are not regarded as living things, because they need a host cell to live. Why does the baby being human allow it to be an exception?

A fetus is alive, and meets all the requirements to be living, as I pointed out a few pages back.

Someone in a coma might need a machine to keep him or her alive.
Some people born with certain disease might also need a machine to stay alive.

They are still human.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.

McJugga

Then when is a human created?

After three months? Is a fetus just a clump of cells, then bam! After three months it is suddenly a human?

Please, tell me, when is a human created?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

If abortion is murder, then masterbation is mass genocide. Watch out, next those pro lifers will be coming after your masterbation privaleges.

htekemerald

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.

Therefore they are human

(Your logic not mine)

Sperm is not human life, a fertilized egg is.

At what point do you believe a fetus magically turns into a human?

The opinion is going to vary from person to person. Why don't pro-choices just try to understand that some people are going to have different opinions than them, and allow them to do what they want with their body. (Ironically, I have noticed that alot of people who don't believe in a woman's rights are the same people who whine about the government staying out of peoples lives)

LostProphetFLCL

If the opinion of when a fetus is made varies from person to person, then that means humans are going to be killed through abortion.

It isn't just about what a woman does with her body, there is also that person inside of her.

A fetus is alive, and meets all the requirements to be living, as I pointed out a few pages back.

Someone in a coma might need a machine to keep him or her alive.
Some people born with certain disease might also need a machine to stay alive.

They are still human.

McJugga

Like I said, anything that needs a host to live is not regarded a living thing by scientist. I also agreed with the fact that babies are humans.

People who need machines... it would not contradict abortion for countries where euthanasia is legal, on the other hand, there body is entirely self-sustaining but to a point. The same can not be said for a foetus in its first trimester.

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

You believe that a need for a host determines whether one is human or not?

McJugga

Whether something needs a host cell or not is how biology can differentiate between living things and non-living things that can do all the things living things can do but need a host cell.

It is why viruses are not regarded as living things, because they need a host cell to live. Why does the baby being human allow it to be an exception?

A fetus is alive, and meets all the requirements to be living, as I pointed out a few pages back.

Someone in a coma might need a machine to keep him or her alive.
Some people born with certain disease might also need a machine to stay alive.

They are still human.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

The opinion is going to vary from person to person. Why don't pro-choices just try to understand that some people are going to have different opinions than them, and allow them to do what they want with their body. (Ironically, I have noticed that alot of people who don't believe in a woman's rights are the same people who whine about the government staying out of peoples lives)

McJugga

If the opinion of when a fetus is made varies from person to person, then that means humans are going to be killed through abortion.

It isn't just about what a woman does with her body, there is also that person inside of her.

take them out of the whom, and they lack homeostasis, they also lack the ability to reproduce...

LostProphetFLCL

So once you kill a fetus, it is no longer alive?

I never knew that!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/

did you know that abortion rates remain the same or even increase if banned? The difference is that women use more back door methods after that, like clothshangers, which just lead to higher rates of woman dying from internal bleeding, and why would anybody support that.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

take them out of the whom, and they lack homeostasis, they also lack the ability to reproduce...

McJugga

So once you kill a fetus, it is no longer alive?

I never knew that!

I wish more people would learn to respect the privacy of others.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.

McJugga

Therefore they are human

(Your logic not mine)

Sperm is not human life, a fertilized egg is.

At what point do you believe a fetus magically turns into a human?

A sperm is the haploid part of the diplontic human alteration of generation, that means it belongs to the group homo sapien just as much as you do.

by your logic it is human, therefore killing it is murder.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

A fetus is alive, and meets all the requirements to be living, as I pointed out a few pages back.

Someone in a coma might need a machine to keep him or her alive.
Some people born with certain disease might also need a machine to stay alive.

They are still human.

Famiking

Like I said, anything that needs a host to live is not regarded a living thing by scientist. I also agreed with the fact that babies are humans.

People who need machines... it would not contradict abortion for countries where euthanasia is legal, on the other hand, there body is entirely self-sustaining but to a point. The same can not be said for a foetus in its first trimester.

So you believe it is a human, but you still think it is OK to kill the fetus.

There bodies are not entirely self sustaining. Without the machines they would die.

At what point is there life, according to you?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Sperm are memebers of the Genus Homo Species Sapien

Therefore they are human

(Your logic not mine)

htekemerald

Sperm is not human life, a fertilized egg is.

At what point do you believe a fetus magically turns into a human?

A sperm is the haploid part of the diplontic human alteration of generation, that means it belongs to the group homo sapien just as much as you do.

Nope.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Sperm are memebers of the Genus Homo Species Sapien

Therefore they are human

(Your logic not mine)

htekemerald

Sperm is not human life, a fertilized egg is.

At what point do you believe a fetus magically turns into a human?

A sperm is the haploid part of the diplontic human alteration of generation, that means it belongs to the group homo sapien just as much as you do.

by your logic it is human, therefore killing it is murder.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

Sperm is not human life, a fertilized egg is.

At what point do you believe a fetus magically turns into a human?

McJugga

A sperm is the haploid part of the diplontic human alteration of generation, that means it belongs to the group homo sapien just as much as you do.

Nope.

Gez, who knew that the key to debating was mindlessly giving no real opinion or thought in response to something?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/

did you know that abortion rates remain the same or even increase if banned? The difference is that women use more back door methods after that, like clothshangers, which just lead to higher rates of woman dying from internal bleeding, and why would anybody support that.

LostProphetFLCL

Notice the increase at the beginning of legalization.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

Sperm is not human life, a fertilized egg is.

At what point do you believe a fetus magically turns into a human?

McJugga

A sperm is the haploid part of the diplontic human alteration of generation, that means it belongs to the group homo sapien just as much as you do.

Nope.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/

did you know that abortion rates remain the same or even increase if banned? The difference is that women use more back door methods after that, like clothshangers, which just lead to higher rates of woman dying from internal bleeding, and why would anybody support that.

McJugga

Notice the increase at the beginning of legalization.

Well 70000 women die every year die because of unproffesional abortions, and who would honestly support that? It's like 14 9/11s every year because of people who oppose abortion.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Uhh what?

A sperm is the haploid part of the diplontic human alteration of generation, that means it belongs to the group homo sapien just as much as you do.

htekemerald

Nope.

Chocolate chips =/= a chocolate chip cookie.

If not at the moment of conception, when is a human created?

doesn't change my statistic, abortions have a 50% higher rate in brazil despite being illegal. When abortion was legalized in East Germany decreased when made legal, and keep in mind those numbers may be wrong due to people lying, remember it was illegal, who knows, it could have been closer to 35.

Well 70000 women die every year die because of unproffesional abortions, and who would honestly support that? It's like 14 9/11s every year because of people who oppose abortion.

LostProphetFLCL

Why would people get less abortions because it is legal. "Oh, I am going to raise a child now. Getting an abortion is no longer cool"

I don't think that is how people think.

To think that the number of abortions will not decrease if it was made illegal is ridiculous.

So you believe it is a human, but you still think it is OK to kill the fetus.

There bodies are not entirely self sustaining. Without the machines they would die.

At what point is there life, according to you?

McJugga

Yes, exactly.

And people with machines in their bodies are self sustaining - only for a while. Just like a baby after the first trimester who was ejected from the mother during pregnancy, but not killed, it lasts for a couple of minutes and then dies.

Life starts after the first trimester. I only think abortion is the acceptable thing to do if there are health risks, if you were raped, or if you are of low socioeconomic status. I think abortion is "wrong" if you are of high socioeconomic status but I don't think the right should be taken away from you - but taxed to discourage away from abortion. All abortions should be before the second trimester begins.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

doesn't change my statistic, abortions have a 50% higher rate in brazil despite being illegal. When abortion was legalized in East Germany decreased when made legal, and keep in mind those numbers may be wrong due to people lying, remember it was illegal, who knows, it could have been closer to 35.

Well 70000 women die every year die because of unproffesional abortions, and who would honestly support that? It's like 14 9/11s every year because of people who oppose abortion.

McJugga

Why would people get less abortions because it is legal. "Oh, I am going to raise a child now. Getting an abortion is no longer cool"

I don't think that is how people think.

To think that the number of abortions will not decrease if it was made illegal is ridiculous.

I just think it's incredibly rude for a man to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body....

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

So you believe it is a human, but you still think it is OK to kill the fetus.

There bodies are not entirely self sustaining. Without the machines they would die.

At what point is there life, according to you?

Famiking

Yes, exactly.

And people with machines in their bodies are self sustaining - only for a while. Just like a baby after the first trimester who was ejected from the mother during pregnancy, but not killed, it lasts for a couple of minutes and then dies.

Are you suggesting that the human is not alive at one moment, then all of a sudden it is alive after three months? If you took a fetus out of the mother's body, it would live for a few seconds. How long does a human have to live outside of the mother's uterus in order to be human?

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

Nope.

McJugga

Chocolate chips =/= a chocolate chip cookie.

If not at the moment of conception, when is a human created?

Also please get an argument that is not riddled with double standards.

people would just start doing it themselves or with backally doctors, to deny that is to ignore the studies....

I just think it's incredibly rude for a man to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body....

LostProphetFLCL

You honestly believe that everyone who was going to get an abortion AND more people who were not going to get one in the first place will get them illegally, knowing the health risks, and knowing that they could go to jail if abortion were made illegal?

It isn't just her body, it is the human inside of her.

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

So you believe it is a human, but you still think it is OK to kill the fetus.

There bodies are not entirely self sustaining. Without the machines they would die.

At what point is there life, according to you?

McJugga

Yes, exactly.

And people with machines in their bodies are self sustaining - only for a while. Just like a baby after the first trimester who was ejected from the mother during pregnancy, but not killed, it lasts for a couple of minutes and then dies.

Are you suggesting that the human is not alive at one moment, then all of a sudden it is alive after three months? If you took a fetus out of the mother's body, it would live for a few seconds. How long does a human have to live outside of the mother's stomach in order to be human?

Please learn the basics about biology before you continue. Im sure your local library has several books that can help you.

Also please get an argument that is not riddled with double standards.htekemerald

If you are so knowledgeble about biology, when is the fetus considered a human?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

Yes, exactly.

And people with machines in their bodies are self sustaining - only for a while. Just like a baby after the first trimester who was ejected from the mother during pregnancy, but not killed, it lasts for a couple of minutes and then dies.

LostProphetFLCL

Are you suggesting that the human is not alive at one moment, then all of a sudden it is alive after three months? If you took a fetus out of the mother's body, it would live for a few seconds. How long does a human have to live outside of the mother's stomach in order to be human?

Fine, uterus...

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

people would just start doing it themselves or with backally doctors, to deny that is to ignore the studies....

I just think it's incredibly rude for a man to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body....

McJugga

You honestly believe that everyone who was going to get an abortion AND more people who were not going to get one in the first place will get them illegally, knowing the health risks, and knowing that they could go to jail if abortion were made illegal?

It isn't just her body, it is the human inside of her.

and if it's human or not is just opinion, why do people feel the need to force their views on others and take away their right to own their own body.....

interesting facts

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Please learn the basics about biology before you continue. Im sure your local library has several books that can help you.

Also please get an argument that is not riddled with double standards.McJugga

If you are so knowledgeble about biology, when is the fetus considered a human?

Lets say for arguments sake the fetus is both alive and human. The end of the first trimester is important because that is what was determined to be a state of development that shouldn't be passed for abortions unless there are severe circumstances. I know people don't agree that a line like that should be decided on but it's the best we have to work with. It is before this point that I would still fully consider the fetus to be a part of the womans body and not some separate entity. Because this is part of her body other people should have no say in what she does with it.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Notice the qualifier "virtually".-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Please learn the basics about biology before you continue. Im sure your local library has several books that can help you.

Also please get an argument that is not riddled with double standards.McJugga

If you are so knowledgeble about biology, when is the fetus considered a human?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

people would just start doing it themselves or with backally doctors, to deny that is to ignore the studies....

I just think it's incredibly rude for a man to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body....

LostProphetFLCL

You honestly believe that everyone who was going to get an abortion AND more people who were not going to get one in the first place will get them illegally, knowing the health risks, and knowing that they could go to jail if abortion were made illegal?

It isn't just her body, it is the human inside of her.

and if it's human or not is just opinion, why do people feel the need to force their views on others and take away their right to own their own body.....

interesting facts

The first line of the Romania article A"The number of abortions in Romania is declining"

The second link is extremely biased...

"why do people feel the need to force their views on others" You are right! Who are you to tell me who I can and who I can't kill!

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/

did you know that abortion rates remain the same or even increase if banned? The difference is that women use more back door methods after that, like clothshangers, which just lead to higher rates of woman dying from internal bleeding, and why would anybody support that.

LostProphetFLCL

Notice the increase at the beginning of legalization.

Well 70000 women die every year die because of unproffesional abortions, and who would honestly support that? It's like 14 9/11s every year because of people who oppose abortion.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Please learn the basics about biology before you continue. Im sure your local library has several books that can help you.

Also please get an argument that is not riddled with double standards.htekemerald

If you are so knowledgeble about biology, when is the fetus considered a human?

OK... At what point do you think it is not OK for someone to be killed.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

You honestly believe that everyone who was going to get an abortion AND more people who were not going to get one in the first place will get them illegally, knowing the health risks, and knowing that they could go to jail if abortion were made illegal?

It isn't just her body, it is the human inside of her.

McJugga

and if it's human or not is just opinion, why do people feel the need to force their views on others and take away their right to own their own body.....

interesting facts

The first line of the Romania article A"The number of abortions in Romania is declining"

The second link is extremely biased...

"why do people feel the need to force their views on others" You are right! Who are you to tell me who I can and who I can't kill!

"Did you even read the title of the artical. Also, this is not following my logic, there is a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion. You can be pro-choice without being pro-abortion. You really need to read what I say."

The problem with your "distinction" between pro-choice and pro-abortion is that you say supporting an abortion under any circumstances means pro-abortion. So what would you say if for example there were a pregnant woman who would likely die in child-birth due to complications but the child already had a very low probability of survival even if she did have it.. would you think she should have an abortion or should both die "naturally" instead?

you don't have to get an abortion if you don't want to. You're telling woman what they can and can't do, I feel like we're moving back to the time before sufferage sometimes...

LostProphetFLCL

Do you believe abortion should be illegal after the first trimester?

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

Notice the increase at the beginning of legalization.

Jacobistheman

Well 70000 women die every year die because of unproffesional abortions, and who would honestly support that? It's like 14 9/11s every year because of people who oppose abortion.

"Did you even read the title of the artical. Also, this is not following my logic, there is a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion. You can be pro-choice without being pro-abortion. You really need to read what I say."

The problem with your "distinction" between pro-choice and pro-abortion is that you say supporting an abortion under any circumstances means pro-abortion. So what would you say if for example there were a pregnant woman who would likely die in child-birth due to complications but the child already had a very low probability of survival even if she did have it.. would you think she should have an abortion or should both die "naturally" instead?

piratedrunk

Fetus isn't a person though, those women are. You're advocating the death of adults rather then terminations of clumps of cells....

LostProphetFLCL

Clump of cells?

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]you don't have to get an abortion if you don't want to. You're telling woman what they can and can't do, I feel like we're moving back to the time before sufferage sometimes...

McJugga

Do you believe abortion should be illegal after the first trimester?

[QUOTE="piratedrunk"]

"Did you even read the title of the artical. Also, this is not following my logic, there is a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion. You can be pro-choice without being pro-abortion. You really need to read what I say."

The problem with your "distinction" between pro-choice and pro-abortion is that you say supporting an abortion under any circumstances means pro-abortion. So what would you say if for example there were a pregnant woman who would likely die in child-birth due to complications but the child already had a very low probability of survival even if she did have it.. would you think she should have an abortion or should both die "naturally" instead?

Jacobistheman

Ok then for arguments sake lets say both would definitely die if the woman did not have an abortion. what then?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]you don't have to get an abortion if you don't want to. You're telling woman what they can and can't do, I feel like we're moving back to the time before sufferage sometimes...

LostProphetFLCL

Do you believe abortion should be illegal after the first trimester?

So you think abortion should be legal at any stage, even a day before birth?