The majority of people in the US Pro-Life for the first time in 15 years.

I didnt even read past the second post but I lol'd at the "pro-abortion" thing.

Dude...youre either prochoice, or prolife. Sorry, there are many grey areas in the world and outside it, but to be "pro-abortion" means you are for the slaying of unborn babies simply for the hell of it, and Obama is not like that.

He aint not saint, he aint the savior, but he aint the damn antichrist either.

As for the topic itself, I cannot say I am suprised. The US is full of caring, compassionate people and it is very easy to take advantage of their sympathies and emotion. Add to that a "pro-abortion" (lol again at description...) president and you create an opposing force, because as physics tells us for every force there is an equal, opposite force.

Hey Jacob you still havn't gotten to my claim that McCain is gay with that photo..

sSubZerOo

"Let me ask you, what would you do if there was a law that said that people were allowed to kill anyone which they took care of becuase that person couldn't live on thier own? This is what you are doing with an abortion."

Your nano's are misfiring again dude. We are talking about abortion but now you are talking about killing people that need assistance to live. PEOPLE =/= FETUS, ok? Get that through your skull, no matter how heinous or despicable you think it is for a woman to get an abortion within the first-trimester, it is NOT, by any legal and binding definition of the word, MURDER, PERIOD. You guys can't even discuss the topic at hand without going on some non-sequitur about legalizing murder. You don't add anything to the discussion, just yammerings on about murder and whatnot. Let me guess, you probably believe that if gay marriage is legalized then ZOMG men can marry dogs and pedophilia will be decriminalized right? Slippery slope of FAIL.

ScorpionBeeBee

I love how you compeltely leave out half of my argument which you can't rebuke.

Most who get abortions are children and teenagers. They'd have this child and most willhave no: stable family life, no father around, neglect, foster homes, ending up in a microwave or dumpster, or they'll grow up and have a trailer park baby of their own.

Abortion has become too convenient, but sometimes it's just better not to exist.

People that wave signs depicting dead babies are no better.

Most who get abortions are children and teenagers. They'd have this child and most willhave no: stable family life, no father around, neglect, foster homes, ending up in a microwave or dumpster, or they'll grow up and have a trailer park baby of their own.

Abortion has become too convenient, but sometimes it's just better not to exist.

People that wave signs depicting dead babies are no better.

MedicMike66

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] Yeah, he may try to limit them but he still supports them in some situations. Jacobistheman

Man, you are saying some looney stuff in this thread, but I think you know it.

What people are trying to say to you, if you don't know, is this:

You cannot say there are times when he thinks a woman should have an abortion. You nor anyone else knows if that is true. You can't read his mind, and that is not exactle idle conversation. "Yeah, I think THAT woman should have had an abortion!". WTF?!?

You CAN say that there are times when he thinks a woman should be free to choose to have one if she wants. Say a woman is raped. If she wants an abortion, I can understand that. If she decides to have the baby, she is a saint and that is great. But it is not my (or Obama's) decision to make.

You cannot say there are times when he thinks a woman should have an abortion. You nor anyone else knows if that is true. You can't read his mind, and that is not exactle idle conversation. "Yeah, I think THAT woman should have had an abortion!". WTF?!?

TBoogy

[QUOTE="MedicMike66"]

Most who get abortions are children and teenagers. They'd have this child and most willhave no: stable family life, no father around, neglect, foster homes, ending up in a microwave or dumpster, or they'll grow up and have a trailer park baby of their own.

Abortion has become too convenient, but sometimes it's just better not to exist.

People that wave signs depicting dead babies are no better.

Jacobistheman

Hmmm do I think guilting people into making a poor decision is as bad/worse as making a morally-questionable but practically-right decision?

Yes...yes, I do.

People need to think about the present and the future, not the ever-debatable "what if". God is full of forgiveness, is he not? So if abortion is indeed a sin, cant he forgive that? After all, He forgives regular murder, coke addicition, prostitution...not to mention original sin (something infants are born with!)

"Hey, dont kill your baby! Look at this picture!"
"But...but if I dont I'm dooming myself, my boyfriend, and my child to a life of poverty!"
"So?! If you do this youre going to hell!"
"I dont believe in hell!"
"It doesnt matter...hell believes in you!"
"Oh, I better not risk it! Im keeping the baby!"

Ya...thats totally moral, rightious, and upstanding.

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

"Let me ask you, what would you do if there was a law that said that people were allowed to kill anyone which they took care of becuase that person couldn't live on thier own? This is what you are doing with an abortion."

Your nano's are misfiring again dude. We are talking about abortion but now you are talking about killing people that need assistance to live. PEOPLE =/= FETUS, ok? Get that through your skull, no matter how heinous or despicable you think it is for a woman to get an abortion within the first-trimester, it is NOT, by any legal and binding definition of the word, MURDER, PERIOD. You guys can't even discuss the topic at hand without going on some non-sequitur about legalizing murder. You don't add anything to the discussion, just yammerings on about murder and whatnot. Let me guess, you probably believe that if gay marriage is legalized then ZOMG men can marry dogs and pedophilia will be decriminalized right? Slippery slope of FAIL.

Jacobistheman

I love how you compeltely leave out half of my argument which you can't rebuke.

Im in favor of Abortion as long as 2 lifetime ended pregnancys result in steralizationredbaron3

[QUOTE="redbaron3"]Im in favor of Abortion as long as 2 lifetime ended pregnancys result in steralizationbean-with-bacon

both

theyre obviously too stupid to take matters into their own hands

*this is assuming the two-aborton limit has been reached with the same two people. Then again if the girl gets an abortion two times within a 2-month period with two different guys she should be spayed lol

Bob Barker TO THE RESCUE!

[QUOTE="MedicMike66"]

Most who get abortions are children and teenagers. They'd have this child and most willhave no: stable family life, no father around, neglect, foster homes, ending up in a microwave or dumpster, or they'll grow up and have a trailer park baby of their own.

Abortion has become too convenient, but sometimes it's just better not to exist.

People that wave signs depicting dead babies are no better.

Jacobistheman

The people who wave those signs and throw baby dolls drenched in blood act as if they're morally unscathed and have no clue of the circumstances of some abortions. It's really no one's business what anyone does with their body. People who judge others for such things need to take a good look at their own lives.

Some people just don't need to have children. It's as simple as that.

I find it hard to believe we still argue such things.

I'm pro-life so this makes me happy :)

Well, first of all you know what I am saying is true, and yes sarah is pro abortion if she thinks a woman should get an abortion, nuff said. Well some one who is pro choice is more likely to have an abortion, you know how it equates so that is good enough. You have yet to denu my claim that obama doesn't support poeple having abortions, and untill that happens I assume that you agree with me because I have asked you directly to deny it and you haven't.Jacobistheman

Im in favor of Abortion as long as 2 lifetime ended pregnancys result in steralizationredbaron3

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] Well, first of all you know what I am saying is true, and yes sarah is pro abortion if she thinks a woman should get an abortion, nuff said. Well some one who is pro choice is more likely to have an abortion, you know how it equates so that is good enough. You have yet to denu my claim that obama doesn't support poeple having abortions, and untill that happens I assume that you agree with me because I have asked you directly to deny it and you haven't.-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] Well, first of all you know what I am saying is true, and yes sarah is pro abortion if she thinks a woman should get an abortion, nuff said. Well some one who is pro choice is more likely to have an abortion, you know how it equates so that is good enough. You have yet to denu my claim that obama doesn't support poeple having abortions, and untill that happens I assume that you agree with me because I have asked you directly to deny it and you haven't.Jacobistheman

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] If Sarah Palin is pro-abortion then that means that no one is pro-life and everyone is pro-abortion, because virtually everyone believes that it is appropriate for a woman to get an abortion when the life of the mother is at risk, thus this thread is pointless because no one is pro-life according to you. And what you are saying is not true - your argument is based on weak inductions and syllogistic fallacies.

-Sun_Tzu-

You guys are so far behind, we legalised abortion in 1967, I think, but I can't remember the year of the Act of Parliament.

I'm pro-choice, you deny rights and freedom to the women who don't want the unborn child that way, isn't that what your country absolutely loves? Freedom to choose? And to be serious, who is it hurting?

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] Well, first of all you know what I am saying is true, and yes sarah is pro abortion if she thinks a woman should get an abortion, nuff said. Well some one who is pro choice is more likely to have an abortion, you know how it equates so that is good enough. You have yet to denu my claim that obama doesn't support poeple having abortions, and untill that happens I assume that you agree with me because I have asked you directly to deny it and you haven't.Jacobistheman

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Jacobistheman"] I don't think it is right for one person to be murdered in order to save another person, and I know a lot of people who belive the same as I do, so you are wrong. Jacobistheman

[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]

Good. I see no reason for abortion in cases as birth control. This is not something that you should simply be able to go out and do.

ScorpionBeeBee

2. Maybe its not a big a deal as y'all make it out to be. Life and death, part and parcel of the world we live in, and those at the very bottom of the totem pole of life (the non-sentient clumps of first trimester legal abortions) are at the mercy of the womb's owner, and that is how we roll, and it works! It has been working since the 70s! Abortion is as American as apple pie. Go find another sentimental crusade to get all huffy over. Freedom of choice forever!

1. 50 million people being suddenly killed wouldn't affect me either, does that justify it?

2. These "non-sentient clumps" are human, and by killing a fetus, you are ending a human's life (bottom of the totem pole of life).
People said the same things to justify slavery..

Most who get abortions are children and teenagers. They'd have this child and most willhave no: stable family life, no father around, neglect, foster homes, ending up in a microwave or dumpster, or they'll grow up and have a trailer park baby of their own.

Abortion has become too convenient, but sometimes it's just better not to exist.

People that wave signs depicting dead babies are no better.

MedicMike66

Who are you to say that a fetus will grow up to have a horrible life?
He or She deserves just as much of a chance as anyone else.

This is one of the worst arguments that I see. If you believe that this is a reason to kill a fetus, then you should also support killing any born baby, since they may have a bad life.
The odds don't suddenly increase once you are born.

If you don't support killing born children, you can't use this as an argument.

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]

Good. I see no reason for abortion in cases as birth control. This is not something that you should simply be able to go out and do.

McJugga

2. Maybe its not a big a deal as y'all make it out to be. Life and death, part and parcel of the world we live in, and those at the very bottom of the totem pole of life (the non-sentient clumps of first trimester legal abortions) are at the mercy of the womb's owner, and that is how we roll, and it works! It has been working since the 70s! Abortion is as American as apple pie. Go find another sentimental crusade to get all huffy over. Freedom of choice forever!

1. 50 million people being suddenly killed wouldn't affect me either, does that justify it?

2. These "non-sentient clumps" are human, and by killing a fetus, you are ending a human's life (bottom of the totem pole of life).
People said the same things to justify slavery..

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]
1. Why the hell not??? Tell me how a woman terminating a pregnancy she does not want affects you. There are over 1million abortions per year in the USA. That's a lot of dead babies right? Imagine a large industrial water tank full of the remains of those pure, precious babies! Does it not just drive you mad??? And some how the sun still rises in the east, sets in the west, San Fransisco hasn't been turned into a pillar of salt and life goes on, all inspite of the dead baby massacre.

2. Maybe its not a big a deal as y'all make it out to be. Life and death, part and parcel of the world we live in, and those at the very bottom of the totem pole of life (the non-sentient clumps of first trimester legal abortions) are at the mercy of the womb's owner, and that is how we roll, and it works! It has been working since the 70s! Abortion is as American as apple pie. Go find another sentimental crusade to get all huffy over. Freedom of choice forever!

STAR_Admiral

1. 50 million people being suddenly killed wouldn't affect me either, does that justify it?

2. These "non-sentient clumps" are human, and by killing a fetus, you are ending a human's life (bottom of the totem pole of life).
People said the same things to justify slavery..

What? So it is a separate being, then all of a sudden after three months the individual cells come together and choose to form a baby?

Hey Jacob you still havn't gotten to my claim that McCain is gay with that photo..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Yes I do and its a poor comparison for abortion.. The fetus can't be taken out and given to some one else to live, a new born baby CAN.. The baby is outside the womb and its classified as a human being.. There is no way around specifically.. As I said earlier the closest thing that you can compare it to would be like the alochol act during the 1920s.. Your making ridiculous comparisons that are quite frankly ludicrious to even suggest being remotely similar to compare one another.. Because they arn't both legalizing the euthnization of new borns and murder is completely different..

This analogy is the exact same:

If cheating were allowed in online video games, you wouldn't be forced to use cheats. Therefore it is OK to allow cheats.

I really don't think you are getting the proper message from my analogies.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Hey Jacob you still havn't gotten to my claim that McCain is gay with that photo..

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="STAR_Admiral"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

1. 50 million people being suddenly killed wouldn't affect me either, does that justify it?

2. These "non-sentient clumps" are human, and by killing a fetus, you are ending a human's life (bottom of the totem pole of life).
People said the same things to justify slavery..

McJugga

What? So it is a separate being, then all of a sudden after three months the individual cells come together and choose to form a baby?

You are in a way correct. The life of the human cells began and when abortion is done the lives of all those human cells is taken away. however sentience has not begun, so it is not taken away.

Hey Jacob you still havn't gotten to my claim that McCain is gay with that photo..

[QUOTE="T_P_O"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]John McCain married a super hot chick, nuff said. sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Yes I do and its a poor comparison for abortion.. The fetus can't be taken out and given to some one else to live, a new born baby CAN.. The baby is outside the womb and its classified as a human being.. There is no way around specifically.. As I said earlier the closest thing that you can compare it to would be like the alochol act during the 1920s.. Your making ridiculous comparisons that are quite frankly ludicrious to even suggest being remotely similar to compare one another.. Because they arn't both legalizing the euthnization of new borns and murder is completely different..sSubZerOo

This analogy is the exact same:

If cheating were allowed in online video games, you wouldn't be forced to use cheats. Therefore it is OK to allow cheats.

I really don't think you are getting the proper message from my analogies.

But when a baby that is born is killed, it doesn't affect you either.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="McJugga"]

This analogy is the exact same:

If cheating were allowed in online video games, you wouldn't be forced to use cheats. Therefore it is OK to allow cheats.

I really don't think you are getting the proper message from my analogies.

But when a baby that is born is killed, it doesn't affect you either.

Yes but I pointed out YET again that the baby is OUTSIDE the persons body meaning it can be taken care by ANY ONE.. We consider that a real person now by law... While the featus inside the woman can not survive outside of her nor can it be transplanted into some one else.sSubZerOo

So, if we developed the technology to transport a fetus to either a new woman, or a machine where it could survive, you would then cl.assify it as a human?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Yes but I pointed out YET again that the baby is OUTSIDE the persons body meaning it can be taken care by ANY ONE.. We consider that a real person now by law... While the featus inside the woman can not survive outside of her nor can it be transplanted into some one else.McJugga

So, if we developed the technology to transport a fetus to either a new woman, or a machine where it could survive, you would then cl.assify it as a human?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Yes but I pointed out YET again that the baby is OUTSIDE the persons body meaning it can be taken care by ANY ONE.. We consider that a real person now by law... While the featus inside the woman can not survive outside of her nor can it be transplanted into some one else.sSubZerOo

So, if we developed the technology to transport a fetus to either a new woman, or a machine where it could survive, you would then cl.assify it as a human?

Would it be a human? Yes or no.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="McJugga"]

So, if we developed the technology to transport a fetus to either a new woman, or a machine where it could survive, you would then cl.assify it as a human?

McJugga

Would it be a human? Yes or no.

Would it have all the vital organs and brain functions to survive on its own?T_P_O

A baby wouldn't be able to survive on its own, it still needs a mother.

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]Would it have all the vital organs and brain functions to survive on its own?McJugga

A baby wouldn't be able to survive on its own, it still needs a mother.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]Would it have all the vital organs and brain functions to survive on its own?Famiking

A baby wouldn't be able to survive on its own, it still needs a mother.

You're point being? A fetus is biologically alive too.

Subzero said that a born baby is human since it can live outside the mother's body, and be taken care of by anyone. A fetus can't survive outside of the mother's stomach and be taken care of by anyone, therefore it is not human.

Do you agree with this?

What bugs me the most is that most "pro-life" people are also anti-welfare people. So don't allow a woman to choose not to bring a baby into the world when she knows she cant support it, and then don't provide her with any help raising said child. Cool plan.

What bugs me the most is that most "pro-life" people are also anti-welfare people. So don't allow a woman to choose not to bring a baby into the world when she knows she cant support it, and then don't provide her with any help raising said child. Cool plan.

MCPresident

[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="McJugga"]

A baby wouldn't be able to survive on its own, it still needs a mother.

McJugga

You're point being? A fetus is biologically alive too.

Subzero said that a born baby is human since it can live outside the mother's body, and be taken care of by anyone. A fetus can't survive outside of the mother's stomach and be taken care of by anyone, therefore it is not human.

Do you agree with this?

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="Famiking"] It's biologically alive.Famiking

You're point being? A fetus is biologically alive too.

Subzero said that a born baby is human since it can live outside the mother's body, and be taken care of by anyone. A fetus can't survive outside of the mother's stomach and be taken care of by anyone, therefore it is not human.

Do you agree with this?

OK.
If the fetus could be transplanted from the mother to a machine or different parent to take care of it, would you then consider it human?

OK.
If the fetus could be transplanted from the mother to a machine or different parent to take care of it, would you then consider it human?

McJugga

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

OK.
If the fetus could be transplanted from the mother to a machine or different parent to take care of it, would you then consider it human?

Famiking

You believe that a need for a host determines whether one is human or not?

If abortion is murder, then masterbation is mass genocide. Watch out, next those pro lifers will be coming after your masterbation privaleges.

If abortion is murder, then masterbation is mass genocide. Watch out, next those pro lifers will be coming after your masterbation privaleges.

LostProphetFLCL

A human is created at conception, not before, not after.