The Morality of Piracy

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but what about when you cannot get the product legally in your area/country?

For example, TV shows can be broadcast in the US 6 months before they are shown here. Why should I have to wait the 6 months just because a network doesn't want to show it yet?

So basically, nobody has gained any insight in piracy, and we have only grown hatred. Maybe it's best never to have this topic again on GS, at least not until we have more information.
I'm not married to my stance but the arguments here are very silly and miss the points.
It's like we are talking in foreign languages. What an abysmal thread You have created :P like a bottomless pit of missunderstandings.

KungfuKitten

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but what about when you cannot get the product legally in your area/country?

For example, TV shows can be broadcast in the US 6 months before they are shown here. Why should I have to wait the 6 months just because a network doesn't want to show it yet?

daqua_99

Also shows like million dollar listing just don't get shown in the UK

Piracy is justified if you cant afford to buy something legally.

Sorry but there realy is absolutely no point in sacrificing something which wont cause anyone any harm if you dont sacrifice.

Now why should you pay if you can afford it? Well because if everyone started pirating whatever the hell they could than the digital entertainment industry will prolly die.

My stand on piracy is pretty simple, it's not theft no mater how you cut it. It all really depends on how much you care about something and your willingness to support it. People are free to make as many anti-piracy measures as they want but they have no right to tell me that I cant copy my friends's dvd into my PC!

Piracy is justified if you cant afford to buy something legally.

Sorry but there realy is absolutely no point in sacrificing something which wont cause anyone any harm if you dont sacrifice.

Now why should you pay if you can afford it? Well because if everyone started pirating whatever the hell they could than the digital entertainment industry will prolly die.

My stand on piracy is pretty simple, it's not theft no mater how you cut it. It all really depends on how much you care about something and your willingness to support it. People are free to make as many anti-piracy measures as they want but they have no right to tell me that I cant copy my friends's dvd into my PC!

Gambler_3

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Piracy is justified if you cant afford to buy something legally.

Sorry but there realy is absolutely no point in sacrificing something which wont cause anyone any harm if you dont sacrifice.

Now why should you pay if you can afford it? Well because if everyone started pirating whatever the hell they could than the digital entertainment industry will prolly die.

My stand on piracy is pretty simple, it's not theft no mater how you cut it. It all really depends on how much you care about something and your willingness to support it. People are free to make as many anti-piracy measures as they want but they have no right to tell me that I cant copy my friends's dvd into my PC!

LJS9502_basic

Uhh no its not illegal in most of the civilized world.

Oh also I hope you have the cure's permmision to use their name and faces in your signiture.

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

So basically, nobody has gained any insight in piracy, and we have only grown hatred. Maybe it's best never to have this topic again on GS, at least not until we have more information.
I'm not married to my stance but the arguments here are very silly and miss the points.
It's like we are talking in foreign languages. What an abysmal thread You have created :P like a bottomless pit of missunderstandings.

LJS9502_basic

No, just because something is illegal does not necessarily mean it is immoral

Neither does if something damages someone else, it is detrimental? yeah. Does that mean everyone will find it immoral? no.

it depends on the subject to find something to be "immoral"

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Piracy is justified if you cant afford to buy something legally.

Sorry but there realy is absolutely no point in sacrificing something which wont cause anyone any harm if you dont sacrifice.

Now why should you pay if you can afford it? Well because if everyone started pirating whatever the hell they could than the digital entertainment industry will prolly die.

My stand on piracy is pretty simple, it's not theft no mater how you cut it. It all really depends on how much you care about something and your willingness to support it. People are free to make as many anti-piracy measures as they want but they have no right to tell me that I cant copy my friends's dvd into my PC!

LJS9502_basic

lol no it doesnt advocate that cuz stealing something results in someone bearing a loss but with piracy, no one is bearing a loss.:shock: WOW shocking? I know...

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Piracy is justified if you cant afford to buy something legally.

Sorry but there realy is absolutely no point in sacrificing something which wont cause anyone any harm if you dont sacrifice.

Now why should you pay if you can afford it? Well because if everyone started pirating whatever the hell they could than the digital entertainment industry will prolly die.

My stand on piracy is pretty simple, it's not theft no mater how you cut it. It all really depends on how much you care about something and your willingness to support it. People are free to make as many anti-piracy measures as they want but they have no right to tell me that I cant copy my friends's dvd into my PC!

htekemerald

Uhh no its not illegal in most of the civilized world.

Oh also I hope you have the cure's permmision to use their name and faces in your signiture.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

So basically, nobody has gained any insight in piracy, and we have only grown hatred. Maybe it's best never to have this topic again on GS, at least not until we have more information.
I'm not married to my stance but the arguments here are very silly and miss the points.
It's like we are talking in foreign languages. What an abysmal thread You have created :P like a bottomless pit of missunderstandings.

T_P_O

No, just because something is illegal does not necessarily mean it is immoral

Neither does if something damages someone else, it is detrimental? yeah. Does that mean everyone will find it immoral? no.

it depends on the subject to find something to be "immoral"

The only people who are really hurt by piracy are some greedy fat cat corporate scumbags at the MPAA and RIAA.

Oh no, they might have to fly on a G3 instead of a G4. They might have to live in the squalor of super luxury rather than ultra luxury. Cry me a river.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

So basically, nobody has gained any insight in piracy, and we have only grown hatred. Maybe it's best never to have this topic again on GS, at least not until we have more information.
I'm not married to my stance but the arguments here are very silly and miss the points.
It's like we are talking in foreign languages. What an abysmal thread You have created :P like a bottomless pit of missunderstandings.

T_P_O

No, just because something is illegal does not necessarily mean it is immoral

Neither does if something damages someone else, it is detrimental? yeah. Does that mean everyone will find it immoral? no.

it depends on the subject to find something to be "immoral"

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Piracy is justified if you cant afford to buy something legally.

Sorry but there realy is absolutely no point in sacrificing something which wont cause anyone any harm if you dont sacrifice.

Now why should you pay if you can afford it? Well because if everyone started pirating whatever the hell they could than the digital entertainment industry will prolly die.

My stand on piracy is pretty simple, it's not theft no mater how you cut it. It all really depends on how much you care about something and your willingness to support it. People are free to make as many anti-piracy measures as they want but they have no right to tell me that I cant copy my friends's dvd into my PC!

Gambler_3

lol no it doesnt advocate that cuz stealing something results in someone bearing a loss but with piracy, no one is bearing a loss.:shock: WOW shocking? I know...

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm not sure what insight you want. Piracy is illegal. It's immoral. And just because it's justified by individuals doing it does not make it okay. Assume you have a job that does not involve creating a physical object. You'd still want paid for your time and effort would you not? Same thing.

LJS9502_basic

No, just because something is illegal does not necessarily mean it is immoral

Neither does if something damages someone else, it is detrimental? yeah. Does that mean everyone will find it immoral? no.

it depends on the subject to find something to be "immoral"

Wow, I was just about to create a thread like this... But here is my opinion.

I think that it is not Biblically "stealing" (one of the ten commandments), but it is still Bibically wrong since it is illegal. When you steal, doesnt it have to be concrete since you cant steal sound??? But it is still somehow wrong since someone put the effort of making that song.

Wow, I was just about to create a thread like this... But here is my opinion.

I think that it is not Biblically "stealing" (one of the ten commandments), but it is still Bibically wrong since it is illegal. When you steal, doesnt it have to be concrete since you cant steal sound??? But it is still somehow wrong since someone put the effort of making that song.

peaceoutmedusa

It's not even legally considered theft. It's copyright infringement.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]

Wow, I was just about to create a thread like this... But here is my opinion.

I think that it is not Biblically "stealing" (one of the ten commandments), but it is still Bibically wrong since it is illegal. When you steal, doesnt it have to be concrete since you cant steal sound??? But it is still somehow wrong since someone put the effort of making that song.

It's not even legally considered theft. It's copyright infringement.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Sure they can. It's illegal. And taking your first sentence at face value....it seems to advocate theft of anything that one can't afford. Wow...LJS9502_basic

Uhh no its not illegal in most of the civilized world.

Oh also I hope you have the cure's permmision to use their name and faces in your signiture.

As we all know the USA is the center of good criminal laws and morality.

/sarcasm. This isn't a debate about piracy in America, just piracy in general.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="htekemerald"]

Uhh no its not illegal in most of the civilized world.

Oh also I hope you have the cure's permmision to use their name and faces in your signiture.

htekemerald

As we all know the USA is the center of good criminal laws and morality.

/sarcasm. This isn't a debate about piracy in America, just piracy in general.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]

Wow, I was just about to create a thread like this... But here is my opinion.

I think that it is not Biblically "stealing" (one of the ten commandments), but it is still Bibically wrong since it is illegal. When you steal, doesnt it have to be concrete since you cant steal sound??? But it is still somehow wrong since someone put the effort of making that song.

peaceoutmedusa

It's not even legally considered theft. It's copyright infringement.

Yes but it doesn't carry the same legal ramifications as theft/stealing.

If that were the case, police officers would show up at your door and take you away in cuffs.

When you violate copyright, you may get a nasty letter from your ISP, or in the worst case scenario be summoned by some corporate attornies who will try to get you to settle out of court. It's a civil matter, and if it does go to court, many people don't even bother showing up. In fact, you're better off not showing because usually the rulings for no shows are more favorable than those who try to fight and get handed 6 or 7 figure rulings.

But in the vast majority of cases, the offenders are never prosecuted at all.

The only people who are really hurt by piracy are some greedy fat cat corporate scumbags at the MPAA and RIAA.

Oh no, they might have to fly on a G3 instead of a G4. They might have to live in the squalor of super luxury rather than ultra luxury. Cry me a river.

bigfootstew

What about the people who actually create the specific piece of work, like the artist creating the music? How would you like to work and not get paid?

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]This is a US website...and it's illegal to pirate in the US. And yes...I do.LJS9502_basic

As we all know the USA is the center of good criminal laws and morality.

/sarcasm. This isn't a debate about piracy in America, just piracy in general.

Gamespots policies are not a concern in this debate... Please stop trying to divert the debate to hide the weaknesses in your argument.

The debate is wether copying something is immoral. Most sane people realise that it is not. Some however think that using someone elses idea is imoral and theft.

Say for instance I cured Cancer, then someone else copied my method to cure someones elses cancer. Most person would call that progress. people against copying others ideas would call that immoral theft.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

The only people who are really hurt by piracy are some greedy fat cat corporate scumbags at the MPAA and RIAA.

Oh no, they might have to fly on a G3 instead of a G4. They might have to live in the squalor of super luxury rather than ultra luxury. Cry me a river.

daqua_99

What about the people who actually create the specific piece of work, like the artist creating the music? How would you like to work and not get paid?

Most of their money comes from touring. They get almost nothing from record sales.

It must suck for them to work for those fatcats and barely get paid.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

It's not even legally considered theft. It's copyright infringement.

Yes but it doesn't carry the same legal ramifications as theft/stealing.

If that were the case, police officers would show up at your door and take you away in cuffs.

When you violate copyright, you may get a nasty letter from your ISP, or in the worst case scenario be summoned by some corporate attornies who will try to get you to settle out of court. It's a civil matter, and if it does go to court, many people don't even bother showing up. In fact, you're better off not showing because usually the rulings for no shows are more favorable than those who try to fight and get handed 6 or 7 figure rulings.

But in the vast majority of cases, the offenders are never prosecuted at all.

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

The only people who are really hurt by piracy are some greedy fat cat corporate scumbags at the MPAA and RIAA.

Oh no, they might have to fly on a G3 instead of a G4. They might have to live in the squalor of super luxury rather than ultra luxury. Cry me a river.

What about the people who actually create the specific piece of work, like the artist creating the music? How would you like to work and not get paid?

Most of their money comes from touring. They get almost nothing from record sales.

It must suck for them to work for those fatcats and barely get paid.

Gamespots policies are not a concern in this debate... Please stop trying to divert the debate to hide the weaknesses in your argument.

The debate is wether copying something is immoral. Most sane people realise that it is not. Some however think that using someone elses idea is imoral and theft.

Say for instance I cured Cancer, then someone else copied my method to cure someones elses cancer. Most person would call that progress. people against copying others ideas would call that immoral theft.

htekemerald

No most people period do consider it immoral. It is taking something that doesn't belong to oneself with remuneration. I don't care what justification you attempt...but the person that created the intellectual property deserves to get paid for his work. The company that makes it physical deserves to get back the cost of production. The employees of the company deserve to get paid for their work as does the rest of the world. Why should employees in an industry not be paid...or lose their job because people feel they are entitled to take what they want?

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

The only people who are really hurt by piracy are some greedy fat cat corporate scumbags at the MPAA and RIAA.

Oh no, they might have to fly on a G3 instead of a G4. They might have to live in the squalor of super luxury rather than ultra luxury. Cry me a river.

bigfootstew

What about the people who actually create the specific piece of work, like the artist creating the music? How would you like to work and not get paid?

Most of their money comes from touring. They get almost nothing from record sales.

It must suck for them to work for those fatcats and barely get paid.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

Gamespots policies are not a concern in this debate... Please stop trying to divert the debate to hide the weaknesses in your argument.

The debate is wether copying something is immoral. Most sane people realise that it is not. Some however think that using someone elses idea is imoral and theft.

Say for instance I cured Cancer, then someone else copied my method to cure someones elses cancer. Most person would call that progress. people against copying others ideas would call that immoral theft.

LJS9502_basic

No most people period do consider it immoral. It is taking something that doesn't belong to oneself with remuneration. I don't care what justification you attempt...but the person that created the intellectual property deserves to get paid for his work. The company that makes it physical deserves to get back the cost of production. The employees of the company deserve to get paid for their work as does the rest of the world. Why should employees in an industry not be paid...or lose their job because people feel they are entitled to take what they want?

The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA = the world. Oh wait no it doesn't. Period. Just because something is illegal in the usa does not mean its wrong or immoral as you have been suggesting.

And simply making a product does not entitle you to anything. Hey I made this I DESERVE to have people give me money for it, regardless of what it is or does, or if there are better products on the market ect ect ect.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Sure they can. It's illegal. And taking your first sentence at face value....it seems to advocate theft of anything that one can't afford. Wow...LJS9502_basic

lol no it doesnt advocate that cuz stealing something results in someone bearing a loss but with piracy, no one is bearing a loss.:shock: WOW shocking? I know...

The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA = the world. Oh wait no it doesn't. Period. Just because something is illegal in the usa does not mean its wrong or immoral as you have been suggesting.

And simply making a product does not entitle you to anything. Hey I made this I DESERVE to have people give me money for it, regardless of what it is or does, or if there are better products on the market ect ect ect.

htekemerald

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]

What about the people who actually create the specific piece of work, like the artist creating the music? How would you like to work and not get paid?

LJS9502_basic

Most of their money comes from touring. They get almost nothing from record sales.

It must suck for them to work for those fatcats and barely get paid.

Blame the greedy fatcats who are resisting technological change rather than adapting to it.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]This thread is not about the legality of it but the morality. Breaking law is not necessarily ammoral you know.

lol no it doesnt advocate that cuz stealing something results in someone bearing a loss but with piracy, no one is bearing a loss.:shock: WOW shocking? I know...

Gambler_3

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Most of their money comes from touring. They get almost nothing from record sales.

It must suck for them to work for those fatcats and barely get paid.

bigfootstew

Blame the greedy fatcats who are resisting technological change rather than adapting to it.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]This thread is not about the legality of it but the morality. Breaking law is not necessarily ammoral you know.

lol no it doesnt advocate that cuz stealing something results in someone bearing a loss but with piracy, no one is bearing a loss.:shock: WOW shocking? I know...

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Dude your post justified theft.:|Travo_basic

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Are you aware that if a band doesn't get decent sales the recording company won't want to underwrite a tour? They can also lose their contract due to sluggish sales. Second...not everyone that works in said company is a musician that tours. Should they not get paid so greedy people can illegally download music?LJS9502_basic

Blame the greedy fatcats who are resisting technological change rather than adapting to it.

I don't pay for songs I listen to on the radio. I don't pay for books I read in the library. I don't pay directly for movies I watch on TV. Intellectual property is a pretty intangible thing.

I'm just waiting for the day the artists realize they don't need the fatcats at all and just start distributing their stuff themselves directly through P2P/torrents. Smaller bands are already doing this.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

Gamespots policies are not a concern in this debate... Please stop trying to divert the debate to hide the weaknesses in your argument.

The debate is wether copying something is immoral. Most sane people realise that it is not. Some however think that using someone elses idea is imoral and theft.

Say for instance I cured Cancer, then someone else copied my method to cure someones elses cancer. Most person would call that progress. people against copying others ideas would call that immoral theft.

LJS9502_basic

No most people period do consider it immoral. It is taking something that doesn't belong to oneself with remuneration. I don't care what justification you attempt...but the person that created the intellectual property deserves to get paid for his work. The company that makes it physical deserves to get back the cost of production. The employees of the company deserve to get paid for their work as does the rest of the world. Why should employees in an industry not be paid...or lose their job because people feel they are entitled to take what they want?

All these losses arising from piracy are pure estimates. What do you want? People pay for somethin they dont feel worth paying for cuz someone is going to lose their job? lol life's not fair dude, get used to it!

As much as I love digital entertainment, I donot move away from rationality and declare piracy as theft cuz it quite simply isnt.

[QUOTE="Travo_basic"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]No my post justified piracy and piracy is not theft.:|

T_P_O

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

Gamespots policies are not a concern in this debate... Please stop trying to divert the debate to hide the weaknesses in your argument.

The debate is wether copying something is immoral. Most sane people realise that it is not. Some however think that using someone elses idea is imoral and theft.

Say for instance I cured Cancer, then someone else copied my method to cure someones elses cancer. Most person would call that progress. people against copying others ideas would call that immoral theft.

Gambler_3

No most people period do consider it immoral. It is taking something that doesn't belong to oneself with remuneration. I don't care what justification you attempt...but the person that created the intellectual property deserves to get paid for his work. The company that makes it physical deserves to get back the cost of production. The employees of the company deserve to get paid for their work as does the rest of the world. Why should employees in an industry not be paid...or lose their job because people feel they are entitled to take what they want?

All these losses arising from piracy are pure estimates. What do you want? People pay for somethin they dont feel worth paying for cuz someone is going to lose their job? lol life's not fair dude, get used to it!

As much as I love digital entertainment, I donot move away from rationality and declare piracy as theft cuz it quite simply isnt.

Exactly. And before the internet, people were recording songs off the radio instead of buying CDs, and recording things off the TV with VHS.

[QUOTE="T_P_O"][QUOTE="Travo_basic"] It's the very definition of stealing.Travo_basic

do enlightenT_P_O

Exactly. And before the internet, people were recording songs off the radio instead of buying CDs, and recording things off the TV with VHS.

bigfootstew

Music piracy is the illegal copying of copyrighted music......stealing.

Travo_basic

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]Exactly. And before the internet, people were recording songs off the radio instead of buying CDs, and recording things off the TV with VHS.

MrGeezer

But the copies people made of them on casettes and VHS weren't so legal. Back in the 80s the movie industry thought VCRs would lead to the downfall of Hollywood.

Our copyright laws and the huge fines associated with them are very outdated anyway. They're leftovers from when organized crime used to distribute bootlegs.

[QUOTE="T_P_O"][QUOTE="Travo_basic"] Music piracy is the illegal copying of copyrighted music......stealing.

Travo_basic

No, they are completely separate and different types of offenses even. Pirating is downloading data files to make a mimic of the original file, stealing is taking a physical object legallly owned by another person.

[QUOTE="Travo_basic"][QUOTE="T_P_O"] Yes, it is copyright infringement, but it is not stealing someone elses' property (theft). _en1gma_

But dude, the book is now in your brain. Your brain now belongs to the publishing company!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Blame the greedy fatcats who are resisting technological change rather than adapting to it.

bigfootstew

I don't pay for songs I listen to on the radio. I don't pay for books I read in the library. I don't pay directly for movies I watch on TV. Intellectual property is a pretty intangible thing.

I'm just waiting for the day the artists realize they don't need the fatcats at all and just start distributing their stuff themselves directly through P2P/torrents. Smaller bands are already doing this.

Artists do need the business end of the equation if they are going to go anywhere with their music. Or they can just play local clubs all their life. Nonetheless, they sign the contract with the recording company and the recording company is entitled to their employees just as any other business. Or are going to volunteer your time since you don't want the fat cats in your profession getting richer? Because if you talk the talk you need to walk the walk with your own bank account and not someone else's.