The "T" should be removed from LGBT

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="jeremiah06"] That is actually very awesome...frannkzappa

The symbol of all relationships among such men, the moral symbol of respect for human beings, is the trader.John Galt

With the sign of the dollar as our symbol-the sign of free trade and free minds-we will move to reclaim this country once more from the impotent savages who never discovered its nature, its meaning, its splendor.John Galt

i wasn't just talking about symbols...

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] I have never understood why that quote was so well received (I recall someone siging it on a different site). Anyways Frank Zappa, you are demonstrating an ignorance of Objectivism. Ayn Rand never said that symbols do not exist. The word "symbol" and its derivatives (symbolic, symbolize, etc.) occur 26 times in The Fountainhead, and 38 times in Atlas Shrugged. That includes 5 times within Galt's speech. [quote="John Galt"]The symbol of all relationships among such men, the moral symbol of respect for human beings, is the trader.Laihendi

With the sign of the dollar as our symbol-the sign of free trade and free minds-we will move to reclaim this country once more from the impotent savages who never discovered its nature, its meaning, its splendor.John Galt

i wasn't just talking about symbols...

in your talk about mans body, you admit to the existence of forms.

And worlock, I have ebooks of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, so it is easy to look up and count specific words.Laihendi

So that's a "yes" then.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

i wasn't just talking about symbols...

frannkzappa

in your talk about mans body, you admit to the existence of forms.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] What were you talking about? An object can be representative of a concept. I have never claimed otherwise. And worlock, I have ebooks of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, so it is easy to look up and count specific words.Laihendi

in your talk about mans body, you admit to the existence of forms.

ok first off LOL.

second. i may have misread your statement...but my assertion that A=A is meaningless stands.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="jeremiah06"] That is actually very awesome...worlock77

Are you so enamored with that book that you actually sit down and count out how many times individual words are used in it?

Trangender = Mental Problem not sexual orientationhippiesanta

I am gay and I don't think the T should be included. Its a WHOLE different issue, so I don't know why its being added to us. Being attracted to the same sex is a whole lot different issue than thinking you are a member the opposite sex. We dont choose to be gay. Nobody can prove we chose to either. However, we can prove that you were born a man or woman, so that is a choice to have a sex change. Its a fact.

 

I think the T is setting us back from progress because a whole different issue is being lumped in with us for no reason. . Our issue is a whole different matter, and not all gay people think having operations removing the gentilia you were born with is ok. 

TidusIsBest

While proceeding with a sx change certainly is a choice, so is proceding with a same sex relationship.

Gender is based around personality and self identity. Smokescreened84

Which is learned.

If you grow up learning that dolls are for girls, and that boys play cowboys and indians, that wouldn't make you a trans-sexual if you're simply a girl who likes playing cowboys and indians, simply because you're doing "boy things".

It's like how people say Gays are always neat and tidy, can draw perfectly etc; Those are stereotypes, simply because you fit them doesn't mean you're a homosexual. Yet some people question if they're gay or not because they're comparing themselves with these learned stereotypes and it's making them unsure of themselves.
You're saying that because of learned behaviors, and socially accepted stereotypes, some humans decide post-conception, that they "should" be a different sex than they currently are. Which is really no different.

We dont need to convince every Tom-boy that because they're doing "boy things" that they're a trans-sexual who should have a penis because the people who have the same likes/dislikes also have a penis.
What kind of non-sense are you being taught?

[QUOTE="Smokescreened84"]Gender is based around personality and self identity. Nibroc420

Which is learned.

If you grow up learning that dolls are for girls, and that boys play cowboys and indians, that wouldn't make you a trans-sexual if you're simply a girl who likes playing cowboys and indians, simply because you're doing "boy things".

It's like how people say Gays are always neat and tidy, can draw perfectly etc; Those are stereotypes, simply because you fit them doesn't mean you're a homosexual. Yet some people question if they're gay or not because they're comparing themselves with these learned stereotypes and it's making them unsure of themselves.
You're saying that because of learned behaviors, and socially accepted stereotypes, some humans decide post-conception, that they "should" be a different sex than they currently are. Which is really no different.

We dont need to convince every Tom-boy that because they're doing "boy things" that they're a trans-sexual who should have a penis because the people who have the same likes/dislikes also have a penis.
What kind of non-sense are you being taught?

As has been said - gender identity is a BORN aspect.Smokescreened84

You keep stating this as though it is fact, and i should blindly believe everything you state.
I'm awaiting (and googling to try to find) a legitimate study that proves this, so far it's been hard to find an un-biased source.

What we learn only adds to the developing born personality and helps that personality develop more than it would the education and assistance as we become self aware at a young. Smokescreened84

Point being, kids grow up and see these accepted stereotypes, where Girls do X, and Boys do Y.
Thus, when they're growing up and still unsure about their sexualities etc, there's a chance there may be a boy who likes girl things, and a girl who likes boy things. I do not support this "If you indentify more with the male sex, but are female, it's possible you're transgendered" Because that simply encourages the girls who like boy things, or the boys who like girl things, to beleve that maybe they were born with the "wrong gender".

There's nothing wrong with being the girl who enjoys dirtbiking, playing video games, and paintballing.
Not all girls are into make-up, going to the mall every weekend, or other stupid stereotypical things.
Just because a girl likes to do boy things, doesnt make her a transsexual, And I'm still waiting on good reason to believe the non-sense you're going off about.

You've proved it, you're an idiot, you have completely dismissed and ignored what's been said. Someone who's trans-gender knows that something is wrong with their body, but you're too thick headed to listen, so piss off.Smokescreened84

That isn't hard to understand if you actually listen instead of continuing to be a dim witted moron like every other ignorant fool.Smokescreened84

I'm sure this is a great way to convince others you're right.

Ever hear of science?

Ever hear of science?

Nibroc420

Science once labeled homesexuality as a mental disorder. Science does not anymore.

Its a strange argument to make.

Someone. Who. Is. Transgender. Is. Not. Mentally. Unwell. They. Are. Simply. Born. In. The. Wrong. Physical. Sex. If that is still too complex for you then nothing's going to explain it to you.Smokescreened84

I never stated that.
I'd appreciate if you actually read my posts, seems you're just repeating the same non-sense over and over.

Just because someone a girl has more in common with her male peers than her female peers (in the sense of interests hobbies etc) doesn't mean she "has the mind of a boy" and thus "was meant to be a boy".
You consistantly repeating such stupid things doesn't make it truth.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

Ever hear of science?

XaosII

Science once labeled homesexuality as a mental disorder. Science does not anymore.

Its a strange argument to make.

WhEvery single person has an unique born identity, it's part of being an individual, not some mindless drone like you're proving yourself to be with your refusal to actually consider what's been said.Smokescreened84

Identities change throughout life.
People view everything differently, and if you're going to try and convince effeminate men they should be women, because it suits your goals, that's a pretty disgusting thing to do.

Being forced to be male has left a fair bit of disgust towards the ideals of masculinity and the male lifestyle, making me completely unable to pretend to be male any longer and making it impossible for me to play as male in video games.Smokescreened84

[quote="Smokescreened84"]Being forced to be male has left a fair bit of disgust towards the ideals of masculinity and the male lifestyle, making me completely unable to pretend to be male any longer and making it impossible for me to play as male in video games.mmwmwmmwmwmm

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][quote="Smokescreened84"]Being forced to be male has left a fair bit of disgust towards the ideals of masculinity and the male lifestyle, making me completely unable to pretend to be male any longer and making it impossible for me to play as male in video games.Smokescreened84

[QUOTE="Smokescreened84"]Someone. Who. Is. Transgender. Is. Not. Mentally. Unwell. They. Are. Simply. Born. In. The. Wrong. Physical. Sex. If that is still too complex for you then nothing's going to explain it to you.Nibroc420

I never stated that.
I'd appreciate if you actually read my posts, seems you're just repeating the same non-sense over and over.

Just because someone a girl has more in common with her male peers than her female peers (in the sense of interests hobbies etc) doesn't mean she "has the mind of a boy" and thus "was meant to be a boy".
You consistantly repeating such stupid things doesn't make it truth.

I don't give a flying monkey about what others think of me, I just speak up about the ignorance there is towards all of the natural difference in the world.Smokescreened84

Because ignorance is no excuse.Smokescreened84

Hell, if the TC thinks it is bad now, wait until the Furries decide to use their own brand of mental illness to justify operations to fix their supposed 'inborn defects'.

Yep, going to have to tack another 'T' onto the end of LGBT for the trans-species. After all, little Jimmy has realised that he wasn't meant to be born as a human, but should have been born as a golden retriever. So, after a few operations, he's got himself a nice coat of fur implants, a bit of facial reconstruction, and is now just a little happier with his species-identity.

Of course, he eventually ends up being discriminated against. After all, the others at the park just aren't understanding of his desire to run around the park on all fours, completely naked save for the collar, and sniffing the ass and/or humping the leg of everyone he comes across.

I, for one, look forward to a future where Jimmy's mental inllness would be treated, rather than catered to. 

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="Smokescreened84"]Someone. Who. Is. Transgender. Is. Not. Mentally. Unwell. They. Are. Simply. Born. In. The. Wrong. Physical. Sex. If that is still too complex for you then nothing's going to explain it to you.ShadowsDemon

I never stated that.
I'd appreciate if you actually read my posts, seems you're just repeating the same non-sense over and over.

Just because someone a girl has more in common with her male peers than her female peers (in the sense of interests hobbies etc) doesn't mean she "has the mind of a boy" and thus "was meant to be a boy".
You consistantly repeating such stupid things doesn't make it truth.

Hell, if the TC thinks it is bad now, wait until the Furries decide to use their own brand of mental illness to justify operations to fix their supposed 'inborn defects'.

Yep, going to have to tack another 'T' onto the end of LGBT for the trans-species. After all, little Jimmy has realised that he wasn't meant to be born as a human, but should have been born as a golden retriever. So, after a few operations, he's got himself a nice coat of fur implants, a bit of facial reconstruction, and is now just a little happier with his species-identity.

Of course, he eventually ends up being discriminated against. After all, the others at the park just aren't understanding of his desire to run around the park on all fours, completely naked save for the collar, and sniffing the ass and/or humping the leg of everyone he comes across.

I, for one, look forward to a future where Jimmy's mental inllness would be treated, rather than catered to.

cablemodemx2

Whats wrong with furries? it's just a harmless fetish.

[QUOTE="cablemodemx2"]

Hell, if the TC thinks it is bad now, wait until the Furries decide to use their own brand of mental illness to justify operations to fix their supposed 'inborn defects'.

Yep, going to have to tack another 'T' onto the end of LGBT for the trans-species. After all, little Jimmy has realised that he wasn't meant to be born as a human, but should have been born as a golden retriever. So, after a few operations, he's got himself a nice coat of fur implants, a bit of facial reconstruction, and is now just a little happier with his species-identity.

Of course, he eventually ends up being discriminated against. After all, the others at the park just aren't understanding of his desire to run around the park on all fours, completely naked save for the collar, and sniffing the ass and/or humping the leg of everyone he comes across.

I, for one, look forward to a future where Jimmy's mental inllness would be treated, rather than catered to.

frannkzappa

Whats wrong with furries? it's just a harmless fetish.

Honestly, not as much as it would seem that I've stated. I should have re-read this a few times before posting. The original notation of mental illness was out of place, as it should have pertained to Jimmy, the imaginary subject, and not simply all Furries in general. It's Jimmy, the one who believes that he should have been born as a canine, who is obviously suffering from some sort of mental illness.

Apologies to any Furries who may have been offended by this.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="cablemodemx2"]

Hell, if the TC thinks it is bad now, wait until the Furries decide to use their own brand of mental illness to justify operations to fix their supposed 'inborn defects'.

Yep, going to have to tack another 'T' onto the end of LGBT for the trans-species. After all, little Jimmy has realised that he wasn't meant to be born as a human, but should have been born as a golden retriever. So, after a few operations, he's got himself a nice coat of fur implants, a bit of facial reconstruction, and is now just a little happier with his species-identity.

Of course, he eventually ends up being discriminated against. After all, the others at the park just aren't understanding of his desire to run around the park on all fours, completely naked save for the collar, and sniffing the ass and/or humping the leg of everyone he comes across.

I, for one, look forward to a future where Jimmy's mental inllness would be treated, rather than catered to.

cablemodemx2

Whats wrong with furries? it's just a harmless fetish.

Honestly, not as much as it would seem that I've stated. I should have re-read this a few times before posting. The original notation of mental illness was out of place, as it should have pertained to Jimmy, the imaginary subject, and not simply all Furries in general. It's Jimmy, the one who believes that he should have been born as a canine, who is obviously suffering from some sort of mental illness.

Apologies to any Furries who may have been offended by this.

Identifying with the opposite sex is not even close to identifying with another species Terrible analogy all round reallychaoscougar1

Perhaps not the best analogy, as I could have gone into something a little less far reaching to begin with. Trans-Race, perhaps, rather than Trans-Species.

As someone on the outside, looking in, it's easy enough to say that identifying with the opposite sex isn't in the same ballpark as identifying with another species. In the head of the person experiencing it, though, even if simply hypothetical in the Jimmy case, the thought could seem altogther natural that they should have been born another species.

I would imagine mental illness can lead to irrational thought patterns, after all. 

I care about seeing an end to all of the ignorance and hate that many trans-genders suffer from in their lives. It's revolting how much discrimination we have to deal with.Smokescreened84