There is one little simple question atheism can't answer...

I'm not seeing how answering a question like that becomes the responsibility of atheists.....? What does not believing in God have to do with knowing where 'it all' came from?

And that would be : How was the very first essence, ( or the thing that started it all ) was created? It's a scientific fact that every material, every substance needs a source, cause, something to be made from it. Sign-Number-Two

Please, no. Not another debate.

[QUOTE="Sign-Number-Two"]And that would be : How was the very first essence, ( or the thing that started it all ) was created? It's a scientific fact that every material, every substance needs a source, cause, something to be made from it. xaos

Please, no. Not another debate.

dgwutka

Oh right, because obviously religion uses the most obvious logical answers to the creation of the universe /sarcasm

And that would be : How was the very first essence, ( or the thing that started it all ) was created? It's a scientific fact that every material, every substance needs a source, cause, something to be made from it. seriously all of this can't be made from nothingness, that's not logical and not scientifical either. ( Before you mention it, God himself as theists know him ( it ) , doesn't need cause , because he ( it ) is not made of substance. ) I personally believe in Big Bang Theory . But that theory explains how the universe was expanded, not how it was originally created. And also there's still this question remained : where all the material that makes up the universe came from? even if we find an answer for this, we can still ask the same question about that answer and so on. Sign-Number-Two

This is one of the reasons why religion holds back progress. Science looks for explanations for the world and universe around us, religion does not. If certain religious people had their way we would stop looking for answers because all we ever need to know is contained in an ancient text. I would prefer that we continue to look for answers rather then give up and say a magic being did it all.

The something from nothing argument also applies to god, you claim that god has no substance, I agree with you on this and so would most athiests.

Whoever said atheism concerned itself with answering such questions?

Enough religious debates, seriously.

So many stupid problems would be solved if people followed the MYODB rule. Athiests are athiests (like me) because we simply see far too much evidence against religion than in favor of it. Since when did we become the answerer of all questions? And in that case shouldn't you be calling us prophets and/or saints?

That's not atheism, that's bog-standard science. When science has advanced further, maybe we (well, the people with the PhDs) can answer that question.

Where did God come from and, if the universe was created by some all-powerful being, which one did it? The Pagan ones? The Judaeo-Christian one? the Hindu ones? (which then begs the question, are there a whole bunch of religions who should be panicking?)

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Sign-Number-Two"]And that would be : How was the very first essence, ( or the thing that started it all ) was created? It's a scientific fact that every material, every substance needs a source, cause, something to be made from it. Sign-Number-Two

Every belief has to answer this question...or ignore it. That's why neither side can effectively use it as an argument. We just have to admit that no matter what you believe in regards to the creation of the universe, we have to disregard that which is beyond our knowledge to conceive.

Most religions don't answer that question either you know. Where did God come from? Ace6301

He didn't come from anywhere, God is.

Before anything , I have to say I don't like religion's approach to idea of God too. ( I sometimes go to church , but it's because of the serenity it gives to me, not because I consider myself a Christian. ) So please don't mention religions. I am solely talking about God here without any religious view. Sign-Number-Two

Answering the question of why existence exists with God does not answer the question; all it does is move the question up a level and make it about God instead. Then most religious people will say, "Well, God doesn't need a cause," to which atheists will respond, "Then why does the universe need a cause?" It's more or less a complete non-answer.

You're right. We don't know exactly how it all began. We might not ever know. But we will have a bloody good go at trying to find out. And until that day comes, our answer will simply be "we don't know".

Whereas religious types just go "we don't know the answer, so God did it".

This is one of the reasons why religion holds back progress. Science looks for explanations for the world and universe around us, religion does not. If certain religious people had their way we would stop looking for answers because all we ever need to know is contained in an ancient text. I would prefer that we continue to look for answers rather then give up and say a magic being did it all.

The something from nothing argument also applies to god, you claim that god has no substance, I agree with you on this and so would most athiests.

tenaka2

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

You're right. We don't know exactly how it all began. We might not ever know. But we will have a bloody good go at trying to find out. And until that day comes, our answer will simply be "we don't know".

Whereas religious types just go "we don't know the answer, so God did it".

broken_bass_bin

Why is that always the assumption? Is it impossible in everyone else's mind for someone to be both religious and a critical thinker?

Are all God-worshippers of all kinds simply mindless zombies in every respect? It would sure seem that way from a good number of the posts found in OT.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

This is one of the reasons why religion holds back progress. Science looks for explanations for the world and universe around us, religion does not. If certain religious people had their way we would stop looking for answers because all we ever need to know is contained in an ancient text. I would prefer that we continue to look for answers rather then give up and say a magic being did it all.

The something from nothing argument also applies to god, you claim that god has no substance, I agree with you on this and so would most athiests.

LJS9502_basic

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

This is one of the reasons why religion holds back progress. Science looks for explanations for the world and universe around us, religion does not. If certain religious people had their way we would stop looking for answers because all we ever need to know is contained in an ancient text. I would prefer that we continue to look for answers rather then give up and say a magic being did it all.

The something from nothing argument also applies to god, you claim that god has no substance, I agree with you on this and so would most athiests.

LJS9502_basic

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

Exactly. Aside from young world creationists, who still don't really "hold back" anything, I don't see what God or religion have to do with scientific progress.

Atheism unlike religion doesn't try to answer anything.. Its the absence of faith period.. You failed the moment that you tried to liken it with religion.. Furthermore your targeting the scientific explaination of the matter.. In which science has never suggested how matter was created, not once.. Furthermore there is as much merit logically in suggesting that the universe is infinite and always has existed.. Needing no creator because in it self is the creator.sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Atheism unlike religion doesn't try to answer anything.. Its the absence of faith period.. You failed the moment that you tried to liken it with religion.. Furthermore your targeting the scientific explaination of the matter.. In which science has never suggested how matter was created, not once.. Furthermore there is as much merit logically in suggesting that the universe is infinite and always has existed.. Needing no creator because in it self is the creator.Darkman2007

.... Your logic is based around there being proof of god, there is no solid proof of god.. Hence why in religion there is faith to believe in god.. Having a lack of faith does not mean you believe what so ever.

Why do religious people treat Aethism as some kind of organized belief. Do they not understand how the scientific method works?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

This is one of the reasons why religion holds back progress. Science looks for explanations for the world and universe around us, religion does not. If certain religious people had their way we would stop looking for answers because all we ever need to know is contained in an ancient text. I would prefer that we continue to look for answers rather then give up and say a magic being did it all.

The something from nothing argument also applies to god, you claim that god has no substance, I agree with you on this and so would most athiests.

Assassin_87

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

Exactly. Aside from young world creationists, who still don't really "hold back" anything, I don't see what God or religion have to do with scientific progress.

Why do religious people treat Aethism as some kind of organized belief. Do they not understand how the scientific method works?

Blue-Sky

One does not need to accept/understand/acknowledgein the scientific method or science for that matter to be an atheist.

[QUOTE="Assassin_87"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Uh...religion does not do anything in regard to science. Scientists are free to experiment. Using your criteria anything not involved in the field of science would hold back science.

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

dkdk999

Exactly. Aside from young world creationists, who still don't really "hold back" anything, I don't see what God or religion have to do with scientific progress.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Atheism unlike religion doesn't try to answer anything.. Its the absence of faith period.. You failed the moment that you tried to liken it with religion.. Furthermore your targeting the scientific explaination of the matter.. In which science has never suggested how matter was created, not once.. Furthermore there is as much merit logically in suggesting that the universe is infinite and always has existed.. Needing no creator because in it self is the creator.Darkman2007

The important thing to remember here is that atheism exists without "beliefs" because it's based entirely on what we can observe. I think it's safe to say that from this perspective there is no remarkable motivation for believing that any sort of deity exists, as we have no concrete proof. Atheism is not a belief system so much as it is an absence of belief.

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

Why do religious people treat Aethism as some kind of organized belief. Do they not understand how the scientific method works?

sSubZerOo

One does not need to accept/understand/acknowledgein the scientific method or science for that matter to be an atheist.

I'm pretty sure the basis for Aethism's rejection of deities is the lack of empirical evidence.

[QUOTE="dkdk999"][QUOTE="Assassin_87"]

Exactly. Aside from young world creationists, who still don't really "hold back" anything, I don't see what God or religion have to do with scientific progress.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

This is one of the reasons why religion holds back progress. Science looks for explanations for the world and universe around us, religion does not. If certain religious people had their way we would stop looking for answers because all we ever need to know is contained in an ancient text. I would prefer that we continue to look for answers rather then give up and say a magic being did it all.

The something from nothing argument also applies to god, you claim that god has no substance, I agree with you on this and so would most athiests.

LJS9502_basic

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

Christian groups attempt to get creationism into the classroom all the time, they deny evolution and teach young people that scientists that study evolution and biology are wrong. How is this not holding back science?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

Why do religious people treat Aethism as some kind of organized belief. Do they not understand how the scientific method works?

Blue-Sky

One does not need to accept/understand/acknowledgein the scientific method or science for that matter to be an atheist.

I'm pretty sure the basis for Aethism's rejection of deities is the lack of empirical evidence.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Atheism unlike religion doesn't try to answer anything.. Its the absence of faith period.. You failed the moment that you tried to liken it with religion.. Furthermore your targeting the scientific explaination of the matter.. In which science has never suggested how matter was created, not once.. Furthermore there is as much merit logically in suggesting that the universe is infinite and always has existed.. Needing no creator because in it self is the creator.sSubZerOo

.... Your logic is based around there being proof of god, there is no solid proof of god.. Hence why in religion there is faith to believe in god.. Having a lack of faith does not mean you believe what so ever.

Apply that same logic to god and what answer do you have? If god is not a substance, than what is he..... nothing?

So either way all of this came from nothing

[QUOTE="Assassin_87"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Uh...religion does not do anything in regard to science. Scientists are free to experiment. Using your criteria anything not involved in the field of science would hold back science.

For instance fiction literature is not seeking to progress science so you are saying it's holding back science. Hockey is holding back science. Etc. That does not logically follow. Only thing that can hold back scientific progression is something impedeing it. Not something that evolves outside the field.

dkdk999

Exactly. Aside from young world creationists, who still don't really "hold back" anything, I don't see what God or religion have to do with scientific progress.

This is hardly the nature of religion but plain human nature in general.. Where humans anniliate threats to their standing.. Though religious based organizations just happen to be at the top of list of exampels.. this mainly has to do with how easily religious organizaitons have controlled peopel.

And that would be : How was the very first essence, ( or the thing that started it all ) was created? It's a scientific fact that every material, every substance needs a source, cause, something to be made from it. seriously all of this can't be made from nothingness, that's not logical and not scientifical either. ( Before you mention it, God himself as theists know him ( it ) , doesn't need cause , because he ( it ) is not made of substance. ) I personally believe in Big Bang Theory . But that theory explains how the universe was expanded, not how it was originally created. And also there's still this question remained : where all the material that makes up the universe came from? even if we find an answer for this, we can still ask the same question about that answer and so on. Sign-Number-Two

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="dkdk999"] religous people making and laws against it and killing scientists can really slow scientific progress.xaos