There is one little simple question atheism can't answer...

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Evolution is foundational to the entire field of modern biology; without evolution biology would have gotten nowhere. Nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution.

GabuEx

It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. Superbugs are a good example: without the theory of evolution, we would have no hope of understanding how they arise and what to do about them.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="dreDREb13"]Yes, I understand that. You can say God created us, but through evolution. That, I understand. I'm just saying that when people are arguing that creationism be kept out of schools, they mean that intelligent design--at least the definition we know today--is what should be kept out, not a philosophical look at the world. Creationism is, at least by today's standards, a belief that the world and everything in it was made in 7 days. There is no room for interpretation, because that would not be Creationism, just as if I were to say atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. To say it is anything else would not be atheism.dreDREb13

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] but then what does that have to do with using modern medicine? and note Im not saying I believe in creationism , Im just testing that view that religion and science can or can't be compatible. religion as I see it, is more about moral lessons and how to live your life. thats at least Judaism , which believe it or not , cares less about things like the afterlife and deals more with morality and real world situationsDarkman2007

It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. Superbugs are a good example: without the theory of evolution, we would have no hope of understanding how they arise and what to do about them.

I don't really understand the question.

Do you read old literature with not study aids? The Bible is the same...to get the most out of it...it has to be studied. The Genesis story was not intended to be taken so literally. The NT events are...thought the parables are metaphors. Anyway it would be impossible for one without faith to understand so again I ask why it bothers you that someone follows a religion.

LJS9502_basic

It doesn't really bother me, it just strikes me as odd. Plenty of Christians are quick to say many stories are figurative, yet cling to other impossible and ridiculous stories being literal truth. I think it's a bit inconsistent.

It usually always comes back to the same answer, the one you gave me, "You have to study it". I still believe that answer is a cop out.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. Superbugs are a good example: without the theory of evolution, we would have no hope of understanding how they arise and what to do about them.

GabuEx

I don't really understand the question.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Evolution is foundational to the entire field of modern biology; without evolution biology would have gotten nowhere. Nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution.

GabuEx

It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. Superbugs are a good example: without the theory of evolution, we would have no hope of understanding how they arise and what to do about them.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Do you read old literature with not study aids? The Bible is the same...to get the most out of it...it has to be studied. The Genesis story was not intended to be taken so literally. The NT events are...thought the parables are metaphors. Anyway it would be impossible for one without faith to understand so again I ask why it bothers you that someone follows a religion.

HoolaHoopMan

It doesn't really bother me, it just strikes me as odd. Plenty of Christians are quick to say many stories are figurative, yet cling to other impossible and ridiculous stories being literal truth. I think it's a bit inconsistent.

It usually always comes back to the same answer, the one you gave me, "You have to study it". I still believe that answer is a cop out.

Could you make sense of calculus without instruction?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] but then what does that have to do with using modern medicine? and note Im not saying I believe in creationism , Im just testing that view that religion and science can or can't be compatible. religion as I see it, is more about moral lessons and how to live your life. thats at least Judaism , which believe it or not , cares less about things like the afterlife and deals more with morality and real world situationsLJS9502_basic

It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. Superbugs are a good example: without the theory of evolution, we would have no hope of understanding how they arise and what to do about them.

If you dont know how superbugs have came about, I fear your understanding of evolutionary thoery is not enough to partake in the argument.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. Superbugs are a good example: without the theory of evolution, we would have no hope of understanding how they arise and what to do about them.

tenaka2

If you dont know how superbugs have came about, I fear your understanding of evolutionary thoery is not enough to partake in the argument.

Anyway...it seemed an exaggeration. Antiboitics are only a pat of modern medicine...not the entirety.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Do you read old literature with not study aids? The Bible is the same...to get the most out of it...it has to be studied. The Genesis story was not intended to be taken so literally. The NT events are...thought the parables are metaphors. Anyway it would be impossible for one without faith to understand so again I ask why it bothers you that someone follows a religion.

LJS9502_basic

It doesn't really bother me, it just strikes me as odd. Plenty of Christians are quick to say many stories are figurative, yet cling to other impossible and ridiculous stories being literal truth. I think it's a bit inconsistent.

It usually always comes back to the same answer, the one you gave me, "You have to study it". I still believe that answer is a cop out.

Could you make sense of calculus without instruction?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

It doesn't really bother me, it just strikes me as odd. Plenty of Christians are quick to say many stories are figurative, yet cling to other impossible and ridiculous stories being literal truth. I think it's a bit inconsistent.

It usually always comes back to the same answer, the one you gave me, "You have to study it". I still believe that answer is a cop out.

HoolaHoopMan

Could you make sense of calculus without instruction?

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] What exactly do super bugs have to do with modern medicine?:?LJS9502_basic

If you dont know how superbugs have came about, I fear your understanding of evolutionary thoery is not enough to partake in the argument.

That's not true. How do y ou think you can get the right message if culture, history, and language are unknown?LJS9502_basic

I think you misunderstood, I meant that they are kind of irrelevant of an event being FACT, not understanding their message. Of course it's important for the message. Understanding jewish history and culture can definately give you an insight into the intentions and meanings of many Bible stories but it really doesn't lend any credence to events actually being true.

Knowing Jewish culture, history, and language isn't going to make the resurrection a physical possibility.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

If you dont know how superbugs have came about, I fear your understanding of evolutionary thoery is not enough to partake in the argument.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's not true. How do y ou think you can get the right message if culture, history, and language are unknown?HoolaHoopMan

I think you misunderstood, I meant that they are kind of irrelevant of an event being FACT, not understanding their message. Of course it's important for the message. Understanding jewish history and culture can definately give you an insight into the intentions and meanings of many Bible stories but it really doesn't lend any credence to events actually being true.

Knowing Jewish culture, history, and language isn't going to make the resurrection a physical possibility.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That isn't what I asked him. He compared them to modern medicine....not a discussion on how they came about. As in modern medicine would still exist...

LJS9502_basic

He said that without modern medicine we wouldnt be able to understand how they (super bugs) come about. Not that without super bugs we wouldnt have modern medicine.

It was very clear to me.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"] No he didnt compare them to modern medicine. Where did you get that from? Did he say modern medicine wouldnt still exist?Teenaged

He said that without modern medicine we wouldnt be able to understand how they (super bugs) come about. Not that without super bugs we wouldnt have modern medicine.

It was very clear to me.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"] No he didnt compare them to modern medicine. Where did you get that from? Did he say modern medicine wouldnt still exist?Teenaged

He said that without modern medicine we wouldnt be able to understand how they (super bugs) come about. Not that without super bugs we wouldnt have modern medicine.

It was very clear to me.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]He seemed to say it was the basis of modern medicine. That's what I read. Granted I skimmed it....but that is what I got.LJS9502_basic

He said that without modern medicine we wouldnt be able to understand how they (super bugs) come about. Not that without super bugs we wouldnt have modern medicine.

It was very clear to me.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]

He said that without modern medicine we wouldnt be able to understand how they (super bugs) come about. Not that without super bugs we wouldnt have modern medicine.

It was very clear to me.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's not true. How do y ou think you can get the right message if culture, history, and language are unknown?HoolaHoopMan

I think you misunderstood, I meant that they are kind of irrelevant of an event being FACT, not understanding their message. Of course it's important for the message. Understanding jewish history and culture can definately give you an insight into the intentions and meanings of many Bible stories but it really doesn't lend any credence to events actually being true.

Knowing Jewish culture, history, and language isn't going to make the resurrection a physical possibility.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It was this sentence....It has everything to do with modern medicine. Evolution is a core principle behind modern medicine. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] Uh ok, how does that sentence mean what you said his post means?Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I said it seemed an exaggeration....

LJS9502_basic

It is clear that he said that without the knowledge of the main principles of evolution we wouldnt know how super bugs come about. And super bugs are of course an interesting point of discussion when it comes to evolution AND modern medicine. So that answers your first question.

Then you said that he compared them to modern medicine. Which makes no sense. Apart from the fact that he didnt... do you honestly think that super bugs and modern medicine can be.... compared? Perhaps imprecise wording from your part?

Then you added "As in modern medicine wouldnt still exist". Super bugs were only an example (mind you, a good one though) and I dont see how you interpreted the presentation of the example as if he said that we owe everything about modern medicine to them. Perhaps there was no exaggeration from Gabu's part, but an exaggerated interpretation from your part.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"] So based on your opinion that its an exaggeration you then interpreted his post as saying the exact inverse thing of what he actually said?Teenaged

It is clear that he said that without the knowledge of the main principles of evolution we wouldnt know how super bugs come about. And super bugs are of course an interesting point of discussion when it comes to evolution AND modern medicine. So that answers your first question.

Then you said that he compared them to modern medicine. Which makes no sense. Apart from the fact that he didnt... do you honestly think that super bugs and modern medicine can be.... compared? Perhaps imprecise wording from your part?

Then you added "As in modern medicine wouldnt still exist". Super bugs were only an example (mind you, a good one though) and I dont see how you interpreted the presentation of the example as if he said that we owe everything about modern medicine to them. Perhaps there was no exaggeration from Gabu's part, but an exaggerated interpretation from your part.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Actually that wasn't what I said. I asked about the super bugs and modern medicine because he implied evolution was the core basis of modern medicine. Part of medicine would be based on evolution of bacteria etc but not all modern medicine deals with that aspect. So like I said it was an exaggeration.LJS9502_basic

It is clear that he said that without the knowledge of the main principles of evolution we wouldnt know how super bugs come about. And super bugs are of course an interesting point of discussion when it comes to evolution AND modern medicine. So that answers your first question.

Then you said that he compared them to modern medicine. Which makes no sense. Apart from the fact that he didnt... do you honestly think that super bugs and modern medicine can be.... compared? Perhaps imprecise wording from your part?

Then you added "As in modern medicine wouldnt still exist". Super bugs were only an example (mind you, a good one though) and I dont see how you interpreted the presentation of the example as if he said that we owe everything about modern medicine to them. Perhaps there was no exaggeration from Gabu's part, but an exaggerated interpretation from your part.

I suggest we stop nitpicking and altering the words of other people and discuss an actual issue.

He didnt say its THE core of modern medicine. He said said its A core PRINCIPLE of modern medicine.

I suggest we stop nitpicking and altering the words of other people and discuss an actual issue.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

He didnt say its THE core of modern medicine. He said said its A core PRINCIPLE of modern medicine.

I suggest we stop nitpicking and altering the words of other people and discuss an actual issue.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

He didnt say its THE core of modern medicine. He said said its A core PRINCIPLE of modern medicine.

I suggest we stop nitpicking and altering the words of other people and discuss an actual issue.

Teenaged

LJ, we've now had an entire page of posts entirely stemming from your insistence that I wrote "the" instead of "a".

I don't know whether to cry or to be impressed.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] So insert the word principle in there....it's still only a part of modern medicine. We can.....I'll discuss something else with you.....but you didn't give me the percentage I asked about.:(

LJS9502_basic

I could only use relative phrases.

But I will ask my cousin if you like, next time I see her. :P

LJ, we've now had an entire page of posts entirely stemming from your insistence that I wrote "the" instead of "a".

I don't know whether to cry or to be impressed.

GabuEx

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"] Nah I pointed out more than this difference in wording. I think I've made my (or Gabu's) point clear. This would all have been avoided if you hadnt simply skimmed his post, like you said you did. Do you really think something like that can be expressed in a specific percentage? :PTeenaged

I could only use relative phrases.

But I will ask my cousin if you like, next time I see her. :P

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Well I was mostly curious as to the value you'd place on it in regard to the entire field of medicine.LJS9502_basic

I could only use relative phrases.

But I will ask my cousin if you like, next time I see her. :P

LJ, we've now had an entire page of posts entirely stemming from your insistence that I wrote "the" instead of "a".

I don't know whether to cry or to be impressed.

GabuEx

Or actually that may make you cry even more, who knows. :P

LJ, we've now had an entire page of posts entirely stemming from your insistence that I wrote "the" instead of "a".

I don't know whether to cry or to be impressed.

GabuEx

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"] I dont think that even a biologist or a doctor would even attempt to do that. Its not really measurable imo.

I could only use relative phrases.

But I will ask my cousin if you like, next time I see her. :P

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I take it your cousin is involved in the medical field?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] Yes. I am not sure what her major would be called over there but she is now a doctor and a cardiologist specifically iirc.Teenaged

I think he was saying that the term "cardiologist" works, or is valid, here as a reply to what's bolded. :P

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Cardiologist works here....

Assassin_87

I think he was saying that the term "cardiologist" works, or is valid, here as a reply to what's bolded. :P

And that would be : How was the very first essence, ( or the thing that started it all ) was created? It's a scientific fact that every material, every substance needs a source, cause, something to be made from it. seriously all of this can't be made from nothingness, that's not logical and not scientifical either. ( Before you mention it, God himself as theists know him ( it ) , doesn't need cause , because he ( it ) is not made of substance. ) I personally believe in Big Bang Theory . But that theory explains how the universe was expanded, not how it was originally created. And also there's still this question remained : where all the material that makes up the universe came from? even if we find an answer for this, we can still ask the same question about that answer and so on. Sign-Number-Two

[QUOTE="Assassin_87"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] I was certain that they do....Teenaged

I think he was saying that the term "cardiologist" works, or is valid, here as a reply to what's bolded. :P

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Assassin_87"]

I think he was saying that the term "cardiologist" works, or is valid, here as a reply to what's bolded. :P

LJS9502_basic

They turn me off. :(

Funny seeing how religion can't answer that question either.DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="Assassin_87"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"] I was certain that they do....Teenaged

I think he was saying that the term "cardiologist" works, or is valid, here as a reply to what's bolded. :P

I believe it's the same. Here you obtain your degree, which is followed by a general residency and then a cardiology residency.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

LJ, we've now had an entire page of posts entirely stemming from your insistence that I wrote "the" instead of "a".

I don't know whether to cry or to be impressed.

Jandurin

[QUOTE="KeitekeTokage"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ah but that means you assume a literal interpretation. Many things in the Bible were symbolic including the use of numbers. As for you comments about super natural....well yeah by definition it is the super that is important. When you look at science it's not some mystical entity on it's own but the study, understanding, and knowledge we as humans define. We find what works and develop the science. We could be 100% right....or 100% wrong...or somewhere in between but we can't know that. We have limitations. A Supernatural entity would not. So while it's fine to believe or not....it's isn't correct to say it can't be. We don't know.

LJS9502_basic

But you don't know that, that's only what you claim. The symbolic cop out you're making was only made after sciencetific discoveries were made that completely contradicted what the Bible said for isntance. Many religious people would disagree with you as well as let you know there's a special place in hell for you. You stated that religion does not contradict science, and I have pointed out where it specifically does for at least a very large portion of the population (considering the examples I gave). This point still stands.

Please try to be more clear about what you're saying in the second bold.