to you, is abortion morally wrong?

[QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"]but it willverparanoidpers

ah... and now we get to "the potential of a fetus to be a great thinker, to cure cancer" argument. what if the fetus were to be a serial killer, a liar, a cheat, a thief, a strain on society

you say that it has the potential to think, to reason. I'm saying it has the potential to be a murderer.

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"]but it willblooddemon666

ah... and now we get to "the potential of a fetus to be a great thinker, to cure cancer" argument. what if the fetus were to be a serial killer, a liar, a cheat, a thief, a strain on society

you say that it has the potential to think, to reason. I'm saying it has the potential to be a murderer.

man WTF are you talking about?verparanoidpers

I admit I did pull out a logical fallacy there. but you say animals don't have souls because they aren't human. and I beg to differ.

[QUOTE="sToK3d"]

of course not bro..everyone has their own choices they can make..for example, to you, is going on online forums to waste some time morally wrong? ( i know it's out of context but w\e lol)someone having an abortion doesn't affect YOU, why would it? you don't know what the person has gone through. who are we to tell someone what they can't do because of what WE think. just like no one pounces at you for being a gamer

verparanoidpers

i don't think women go around having an abortions for the hell of it, there's different ways to enjoy sex without getting pregnant, i think abortions are used in situations where she got raped, or they can't provide for the kid, and they believe that they can't go through that, but idk man, this is a touchy subject, and i don't know too much about abortions, so i can't really argue too much here

so do you, and therefore, its morally acceptable for me to kill you and your family since you all have the potential to become serial killersverparanoidpers

Hey, BD, when will you reply to my post? I'll like to know how a fetus is an organ.

[QUOTE="blooddemon666"][QUOTE="Ezgam3r"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

Again, we kill our own every day, what's killing a few more.

Ezgam3r

removing organs is different from killing a living being.

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"]so do you, and therefore, its morally acceptable for me to kill you and your family since you all have the potential to become serial killersblooddemon666

It's far better than parents giving birth to an unwanted, neglected and possibly abused child.

Hey, BD, when will you reply to my post? I'll like to know how a fetus is an organ.

Ezgam3r

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"][QUOTE="sToK3d"]

of course not bro..everyone has their own choices they can make..for example, to you, is going on online forums to waste some time morally wrong? ( i know it's out of context but w\e lol)someone having an abortion doesn't affect YOU, why would it? you don't know what the person has gone through. who are we to tell someone what they can't do because of what WE think. just like no one pounces at you for being a gamer

sToK3d

i don't think women go around having an abortions for the hell of it, there's different ways to enjoy sex without getting pregnant, i think abortions are used in situations where she got raped, or they can't provide for the kid, and they believe that they can't go through that, but idk man, this is a touchy subject, and i don't know too much about abortions, so i can't really argue too much here

Well I'll spare you a lecture then but in short, the problem with that argument is this:

Look at the statistics of those particular cases. Now look at the statistics for how many abortions there are. The number of abortions greatly dwarfs the number of those cases and so that means that there is a huge number of abortions becuz people just don't want the baby. But my reply to them is, why did you risk (with full knowledge of the consequences) the chance of getting pregnant? If you are not going to be responsible for your actions, then you have no business having children at all.

It's far better than parents giving birth to an unwanted, neglected and possibly abused child.

Planeforger

[QUOTE="sToK3d"][QUOTE="verparanoidpers"][QUOTE="sToK3d"]

of course not bro..everyone has their own choices they can make..for example, to you, is going on online forums to waste some time morally wrong? ( i know it's out of context but w\e lol)someone having an abortion doesn't affect YOU, why would it? you don't know what the person has gone through. who are we to tell someone what they can't do because of what WE think. just like no one pounces at you for being a gamer

Forerunner-117

i don't think women go around having an abortions for the hell of it, there's different ways to enjoy sex without getting pregnant, i think abortions are used in situations where she got raped, or they can't provide for the kid, and they believe that they can't go through that, but idk man, this is a touchy subject, and i don't know too much about abortions, so i can't really argue too much here

Well I'll spare you a lecture then but in short, the problem with that argument is this:

Look at the statistics of those particular cases. Now look at the statistics for how many abortions there are. The number of abortions greatly dwarfs the number of those cases and so that means that there is a huge number of abortions becuz people just don't want the baby. But my reply to them is, why did you risk (with full knowledge of the consequences) the chance of getting pregnant? If you are not going to be responsible for your actions, then you have no business having children at all.

Bingo

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"]

Hey, BD, when will you reply to my post? I'll like to know how a fetus is an organ.

blooddemon666

[QUOTE="blooddemon666"][QUOTE="Ezgam3r"]

Hey, BD, when will you reply to my post? I'll like to know how a fetus is an organ.

Ezgam3r

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"][QUOTE="Ezgam3r"]

Hey, BD, when will you reply to my post? I'll like to know how a fetus is an organ.

blooddemon666

But at 4-5 months its still drawing nutrients and energy from the mother and thus, by your definition, is still an organ.Ezgam3r

I see abortion before the grey line in which a fetus has a good chance, with good medicine and doctors, to live on its own as alright. after, I have a problem with it.

so pretty much, only 1st trimester abortions i agree with.

No. It is as correct as accepting you are unable to take care of a human being.curono

No. It is as correct as accepting you are unable to take care of a human being.curono

Hahaha Riiight. So by your reasoning, this is correct thinking: "Yeah I'll have sex and risk getting pregnant but who cares? I can't take care of a human being right now so I'll just have it killed."

That is sure correct thinking lol

[QUOTE="curono"]No. It is as correct as accepting you are unable to take care of a human being.Forerunner-117

Hahaha Riiight. So by your reasoning, this is correct thinking: "Yeah I'll have sex and risk getting pregnant but who cares? I can't take care of a human being right now so I'll just have it killed."

That is sure correct thinking lol

Do you seriously think of that?

They abortion laws are fine as they are...and I also don't see how it clashes with people's faith. Is the idea of abortion adressed in scripture?

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

[QUOTE="curono"]No. It is as correct as accepting you are unable to take care of a human being.curono

Hahaha Riiight. So by your reasoning, this is correct thinking: "Yeah I'll have sex and risk getting pregnant but who cares? I can't take care of a human being right now so I'll just have it killed."

That is sure correct thinking lol

Do you seriously think of that?

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

[QUOTE="curono"]No. It is as correct as accepting you are unable to take care of a human being.Forerunner-117

Hahaha Riiight. So by your reasoning, this is correct thinking: "Yeah I'll have sex and risk getting pregnant but who cares? I can't take care of a human being right now so I'll just have it killed."

That is sure correct thinking lol

Do you seriously think of that?

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

[QUOTE="curono"]No. It is as correct as accepting you are unable to take care of a human being.Maaarrrz

Hahaha Riiight. So by your reasoning, this is correct thinking: "Yeah I'll have sex and risk getting pregnant but who cares? I can't take care of a human being right now so I'll just have it killed."

That is sure correct thinking lol

Do you seriously think of that?

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Um... what does that have to do with my post?

[QUOTE="Maaarrrz"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Forerunner-117

Um... what does that have to do with my post?

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Maaarrrz"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Maaarrrz

Um... what does that have to do with my post?

Becuase people need to live these precious lives of theirs, duh. /sarcasm

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Maaarrrz"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Maaarrrz

Um... what does that have to do with my post?

If you can't be responsible and accept the consequence that you may have sex right and end up having a kid then maybe you shouldn't be having sex in the first place.

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Maaarrrz"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Maaarrrz

Um... what does that have to do with my post?

Becuz the difference is this: When driving, there are a set of rules to follow and you must use things such as your judgement, common sense, and be aware and a responsible driver. In a way, sex is no different. You must use your judgement when and how to have sex (common sense fits into this one), you must be aware of the consequences, and you must do it in a responsible manner.

I didn't say that they should flat out not have sex, I said that if they are going to be irresponsible about the whole matter, then they shouldn't. Same thing with driving, if you are an irresponsible driver, you shouldn't be out driving, you are just a danger to other people.

[QUOTE="Maaarrrz"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Maaarrrz"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

LOL throwing rocks?

But anyway, NO I do NOT want to force them to have a baby, I want them to be responsible and realize that if they can't take of a human life, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Ezgam3r

Um... what does that have to do with my post?

If you can't be responsible and accept the consequence that you may have sex right and end up having a kid then maybe you shouldn't be having sex in the first place.

Haha you must have posted while I was typing :D

But yeah just read both of our posts Maaarrrz lol

Between terminating something with no sense of being yet and bringing someone into the world that is an accident and will in all likelihood have a ****ed up life, I'll go pro-choice.dgbiker1

Just call it a "thing" if it makes you feel better lolz

But again, there shouldn't have been that "accident" in the first place and so the people who made that "accident" should take responsiblity for it, whether that means actually raising the child, offering it up for adoption, etc.

I think it's morally wrong if a person abuses the system. depending on the circumstances though, I could see it acceptable (if it were rape or something, i wouldn't want to have the baby either). But if it were a result of a careless fling (learn to use protection and you may not end up pregnant and unwanted STDs) then I think the girl should own up to it and if she doesn't want the kid or can't afford it, then give it up for adoption so that a poor couple that can't have a child of their own can have a shot at a family. If the pregnancy were life threatening for the woman or the child, then I could understand that as well.
I think too many people use abortions as an excuse not to own up to their poor judgement or their stupid careless mistakes though.
princess1087

Exactly. And that's one of the sad things about it. But yeah about the rape thing, that is a very tough situation to say the least and I'm not really sure what I think about that. I firmly believe that abortion is wrong but when a woman is impregnated against her will...

[QUOTE="dgbiker1"]Between terminating something with no sense of being yet and bringing someone into the world that is an accident and will in all likelihood have a ****ed up life, I'll go pro-choice.Forerunner-117

Just call it a "thing" if it makes you feel better lolz

But again, there shouldn't have been that "accident" in the first place and so the people who made that "accident" should take responsiblity for it, whether that means actually raising the child, offering it up for adoption, etc.

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

[QUOTE="dgbiker1"]Between terminating something with no sense of being yet and bringing someone into the world that is an accident and will in all likelihood have a ****ed up life, I'll go pro-choice.dgbiker1

Just call it a "thing" if it makes you feel better lolz

But again, there shouldn't have been that "accident" in the first place and so the people who made that "accident" should take responsiblity for it, whether that means actually raising the child, offering it up for adoption, etc.

Well I can see where you are coming from with this, but the bold part is you contradicting yourself a bit. There's no proof that the child resulting from an "accident" will have a screwed up life and so by aborting it, you are basically making the baby pay for it's parents' carelessness, with it's life. In the bold, you say that there's "no way i'm supporting banning abortions when an innocent person pays for someone else's careless fling." My question to you is, "How can you support abortion when an innocent person pays for someone else's careless fling?"

[QUOTE="dgbiker1"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

[QUOTE="dgbiker1"]Between terminating something with no sense of being yet and bringing someone into the world that is an accident and will in all likelihood have a ****ed up life, I'll go pro-choice.Forerunner-117

Just call it a "thing" if it makes you feel better lolz

But again, there shouldn't have been that "accident" in the first place and so the people who made that "accident" should take responsiblity for it, whether that means actually raising the child, offering it up for adoption, etc.

Well I can see where you are coming from with this, but the bold part is you contradicting yourself a bit. There's no proof that the child resulting from an "accident" will have a screwed up life and so by aborting it, you are basically making the baby pay for it's parents' carelessness, with it's life. In the bold, you say that there's "no way i'm supporting banning abortions when an innocent person pays for someone else's careless fling." My question to you is, "How can you support abortion when an innocent person pays for someone else's careless fling?"

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="dgbiker1"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

[QUOTE="dgbiker1"]Between terminating something with no sense of being yet and bringing someone into the world that is an accident and will in all likelihood have a ****ed up life, I'll go pro-choice.dgbiker1

Just call it a "thing" if it makes you feel better lolz

But again, there shouldn't have been that "accident" in the first place and so the people who made that "accident" should take responsiblity for it, whether that means actually raising the child, offering it up for adoption, etc.

Well I can see where you are coming from with this, but the bold part is you contradicting yourself a bit. There's no proof that the child resulting from an "accident" will have a screwed up life and so by aborting it, you are basically making the baby pay for it's parents' carelessness, with it's life. In the bold, you say that there's "no way i'm supporting banning abortions when an innocent person pays for someone else's careless fling." My question to you is, "How can you support abortion when an innocent person pays for someone else's careless fling?"

About the bold: Exactly! It's funny that you mention that becuz as you were probably typing, I looked at the past posts and realized that it would all boil down to this. While I admit that many "accidents" have probably screwed up lives, I was just trying to make the point that we don't know which of these lives will be screwed up becuz surely not all of them will. Well let me ask you this: Say we have 2 examples - Ex. A and Ex. B where A is a fetus in early stages and B is the same fetus in mid-late stages. What changes have ocurred from A to B that make you think that B is more of a "person" than A?

About the bold: Exactly! It's funny that you mention that becuz as you were probably typing, I looked at the past posts and realized that it would all boil down to this. While I admit that man "accidents" have probably screwed up lives, I was just trying to make the point that we don't know which of these lives will be screwed up becuz sure not all of them will. Well let me ask you this: Say we have 2 examples - Ex. A and Ex. B where A is a fetus in early stages and B is the same fetus in mid-late stages. What changes have ocurred from A to B that make you think that B is more of a "person" than A?

Forerunner-117

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

About the bold: Exactly! It's funny that you mention that becuz as you were probably typing, I looked at the past posts and realized that it would all boil down to this. While I admit that man "accidents" have probably screwed up lives, I was just trying to make the point that we don't know which of these lives will be screwed up becuz sure not all of them will. Well let me ask you this: Say we have 2 examples - Ex. A and Ex. B where A is a fetus in early stages and B is the same fetus in mid-late stages. What changes have ocurred from A to B that make you think that B is more of a "person" than A?

dgbiker1

Hmm... Yeah like I said, all of the branches of the argument being tied up (I think it's pretty clear to everyone now that abortion at least after the early stages is wrong), now we come to the root of the argument. Honestly, I think it is a matter of opinion here. I think that even at those early stages, it is life being made and so should not be tampered with and that is my opinion. You think that it has not quite developed the cognitive abilities that constitute a "person" and that is your opinion. So now we come to a halt I suppose, in our debate. Neither side has any real "proof" to disprove the other's statements/opinions. In the future, the answer to this question will be the deciding factor of whether abortion will remain legal to a certain extent, or whether it will be completely abolished.

Well since we have come to a kind of stalemate and I am very tired (1:40 A.M. over here), I will bid you goodnight!

Oh btw, how old are you? Just curious... :)