UK Government effectively bans creationism in free schools

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surrealnumber5

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#151 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Yeah we all are.

Could be worse though could be bible bashing yokel inbreds

Ilovegames1992

Being a socialist is worse

Is that the tagline from a propaganda poster in 50's America?

Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

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tenaka2

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#152 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] Being a socialist is worsesurrealnumber5

Is that the tagline from a propaganda poster in 50's America?

Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

Thats due to tax loopholes, Italy is considering taxing the catholic church to help with its financial problems.

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Necrifer

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#153 Necrifer
Member since 2010 • 10629 Posts

Why do you think this was passed? Because schools needed something to keep the majority of the population from flooding the education system with their nonsense.

Necrifer

I thought this was a good comeback. I guess ilovegames didn't think the same. :(

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T_P_O

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#154 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Yeah we all are.

Could be worse though could be bible bashing yokel inbreds

Ilovegames1992

Being a socialist is worse

Is that the tagline from a propaganda poster in 50's America?

Probably, but it's worrying to see those who think socialism is a proper name as opposed to a classification of a certain set of beliefs about human interactions. It leads people to equate radically different beliefs, such as Stalinism and "Eurocommunism" (social democracy), or Stalinism and libertarian socialism. Just ignore it man.
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surrealnumber5

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#155 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Is that the tagline from a propaganda poster in 50's America?

tenaka2

Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

Thats due to tax loopholes, Italy is considering taxing the catholic church to help with its financial problems.

i need to make my trollage more visually absurd than my ordinary defence of what most would consider undependable.

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tenaka2

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#156 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

surrealnumber5

Thats due to tax loopholes, Italy is considering taxing the catholic church to help with its financial problems.

i need to make my trollage more visually absurd than my ordinary defence of what most would consider undependable.

Use more pics. I like cats.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#157 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Is that the tagline from a propaganda poster in 50's America?

Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

Thats due to tax loopholes, Italy is considering taxing the catholic church to help with its financial problems.

The vatican is a separate country.
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surrealnumber5

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#158 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

sonicare

Thats due to tax loopholes, Italy is considering taxing the catholic church to help with its financial problems.

The vatican is a separate country.

yea it is, that does not mean economic war is not an open option, hell we do it all the time and tell people it is to bring peace and stability.

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tenaka2

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#159 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] Greece is bankrupt, vatican is not. that makes religious rule more economically viable than a communal system,*problem?.jpg* though i would much rather have a free society.

sonicare

Thats due to tax loopholes, Italy is considering taxing the catholic church to help with its financial problems.

The vatican is a separate country.

Italian Catholic Church under pressure to start paying property tax

The Roman Catholic Church in Italy is under growing pressure to start paying taxes on its massive property portfolio, in a move that could raise up to 800 million euros (£680 million) a year and help bail the country out of its economic crisis.

For s

cat

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#160 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

You could blame Greece's current financial collapse on tax loopholes or excessive social programs. Either a problem with income or a problem with too high expenditures. Either one leads to the same problem. Whenever you have robust social systems, somebody has to pay for them. In greece's case, nobobdy wanted to pay for them.

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Asim90

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#161 Asim90
Member since 2005 • 3692 Posts

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="Necrifer"]

That they are.

tenaka2

Yeah we all are.

Could be worse though could be bible bashing yokel inbreds

Thats a bit harsh, besides its known that the less educated you are the more likely you are to be religious. Opium for the masses and all that.

The word "Education" itself comes from the latin word "Educatio" which means to raise out from within. The word you use to propogate your ignorance suggests a divine presence in itself. Don't even get me started on the brunt of your nonsense, maybe look at some of my threads to educate yourself.

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tenaka2

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#162 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Yeah we all are.

Could be worse though could be bible bashing yokel inbreds

Asim90

Thats a bit harsh, besides its known that the less educated you are the more likely you are to be religious. Opium for the masses and all that.

The word "Education" itself comes from the latin word "Educatio" which means to raise out from within. The word you use to propogate your ignorance suggests a divine presence in itself. Don't even get me started on the brunt of your nonsense, maybe look at some of my threads to educate yourself.

My Trollucato level just went up by 1.

Mercy buckets.

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alexside1

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#163 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts
I see nothing wrong with it being taught in a religion and philosophy lesson, just keep it away from science.brendanhunt1
^this.
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Miroku32

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#164 Miroku32
Member since 2006 • 8666 Posts
I applaud England for this. Bravo, oh bravo.
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DevilMightCry

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#165 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts
[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] It's not being banned in private schools. Only schools which receive any funding from the state.

I honestly think there should be class that educates about religions that isn't necessarily a requirement to graduate. I see nothing wrong with that. I like to have a choice. I don't know why the Government has to decide that for me. On the other hand, they have no problem taxing and collecting revenues from individuals who practice religion, and fund their idealistic views, whether or not those individuals or their children go to a public school.

They're not banning it from state funded schools either. They're just banning it from science classes. Schools can still teach it in religious studies classes.

Thanks for clarification. That for doesn't bother me. I just hate these extremists on both sides.
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Ilovegames1992

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#166 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

I applaud England for this. Bravo, oh bravo. Miroku32

Why does only England get the credit? :cry:

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DarkOfKnight

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#167 DarkOfKnight
Member since 2011 • 2543 Posts

[QUOTE="brendanhunt1"]I see nothing wrong with it being taught in a religion and philosophy lesson, just keep it away from science.Wasdie

Well there are some atheists around here who would love to just eradicate religion all together. Especially Christianity.

That bias really bothers me, more so in that region where Christianity isn't all the prevalent anymore. How likely is extreme islam to have had a role in their decision?
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Wolf-Man2006

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#168 Wolf-Man2006
Member since 2006 • 4187 Posts

Seems kind of pointless banning it if it was explored in a religious/philosophy class rather than a science class since its more of an explanation for science rather than science itself.... Bear in mind that I also believe in Creationism (not as radically as some people, however)..

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inoperativeRS

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#169 inoperativeRS
Member since 2004 • 8844 Posts
Thank god.
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#170 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] whe you have no argument just say nazi! should schools present views when applicable? hell yes, and if someone looks at the evidence we have and concludes the earth is flat that is fine, i doubt it will be frequent as the scientific evidence oppose to such a thing are extremely strong. i know you would like everyone only to be privy to what you deem correct, then eveyone would agree with the one true view.

tenaka2, do you really support a system that does not let the best evidence theory prevail but a system that will create a population of kuraimen's?

surrealnumber5

You're saying "let the best evidence theory prevail" but what about the argument that doesn't require evidence, logic or reasoning? I understand what you're saying but in order for that happen, there needs to be standard for what's considered true and what's considered false. And the best standard for that is the science methodology.

This law does not prohibit anything that operates within the science methodology.

logic and reasoning are subject to the one doing the deducing, how many of histories great thinkers whould have been if they only kept their thoughts to that of the standard population.... you have a carl sagan avy, i dont know how you would even know of him without knowing at least some scientific history. outliers change the world not the standard. if we accept politicians telling us what is acceptable how is that any better than what the church did to Galileo and his kind.

What are you talking about? You're not even in the context of the topic anymore. Great enlightenment thinkers and even the religious that contributed to science all conformed to some standard form of logic. You think the catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre would have discovered expansion of the universe if he didn't conform to the same scientific standards? Wasn't the entire basis for Aristotle's writing about translating morality and ethics into a logical and coherent matter?

When did Carl Sagan not conform science methodology? You seem to be interpreting this debate as forcing everyone into big brother, one like mind mentality, and that is simply not the case, and almost an exaggeration of what this really is.

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DeX2010

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#171 DeX2010
Member since 2010 • 3989 Posts
See fellow brits, Britain isn't that big of a sh*thole as you seem to think. And I have to add this in here for the lulz: [spoiler]  [/spoiler] Creationism is a load of sh*t anyway. Science ftw
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Ilovegames1992

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#173 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]DeX2010

Does Creationism in school make a difference to whether Britain is a sh*thole. :lol:

And it pretty much is in most places i've been too.

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DeX2010

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#174 DeX2010
Member since 2010 • 3989 Posts

[QUOTE="DeX2010"][This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]Ilovegames1992

Does Creationism in school make a difference to whether Britain is a sh*thole. :lol:

And it pretty much is in most places i've been too.

:P I accidentally posted twice, so I deleted the post you quoted in. Anyway, the UK has its gems. Have you been to Brick Lane? The grafitti there is amazing, some parts of Central london as well. I love the architecture in the Westfield in Stratford, it feels so modern and inspiring. Its like a used porcelain toilet. Yes theirs lots of sh*t floating around, but there are still white bits. hope you liked that analogy :)
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Ilovegames1992

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#175 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

Yeah there are nice places about, posh places, but for every posh nice place there are two or three sh*tholes.

Come to Newport or Merthyr Tydfil one day and you'll see.

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surrealnumber5

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#176 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

You're saying "let the best evidence theory prevail" but what about the argument that doesn't require evidence, logic or reasoning? I understand what you're saying but in order for that happen, there needs to be standard for what's considered true and what's considered false. And the best standard for that is the science methodology.

This law does not prohibit anything that operates within the science methodology.

Blue-Sky

logic and reasoning are subject to the one doing the deducing, how many of histories great thinkers whould have been if they only kept their thoughts to that of the standard population.... you have a carl sagan avy, i dont know how you would even know of him without knowing at least some scientific history. outliers change the world not the standard. if we accept politicians telling us what is acceptable how is that any better than what the church did to Galileo and his kind.

What are you talking about? You're not even in the context of the topic anymore. Great enlightenment thinkers and even the religious that contributed to science all conformed to some standard form of logic. You think the catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre would have discovered expansion of the universe if he didn't conform to the same scientific standards? Wasn't the entire basis for Aristotle's writing about translating morality and ethics into a logical and coherent matter?

When did Carl Sagan not conform science methodology? You seem to be interpreting this debate as forcing everyone into big brother, one like mind mentality, and that is simply not the case, and almost an exaggeration of what this really is.

political law has never had anything to do with science and this is no different, it is only political censorship, indistinguishable from religious censorship of the past

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Crunchy_Nuts

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#177 Crunchy_Nuts
Member since 2010 • 2749 Posts
[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="DeX2010"][This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]DeX2010

Does Creationism in school make a difference to whether Britain is a sh*thole. :lol:

And it pretty much is in most places i've been too.

:P I accidentally posted twice, so I deleted the post you quoted in. Anyway, the UK has its gems. Have you been to Brick Lane? The grafitti there is amazing, some parts of Central london as well. I love the architecture in the Westfield in Stratford, it feels so modern and inspiring. Its like a used porcelain toilet. Yes theirs lots of sh*t floating around, but there are still white bits. hope you liked that analogy :)

Really you like the architecture of Westfield Stratford? The place is the epitome of generic, shiny supermall.
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sexyweapons

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#178 sexyweapons
Member since 2009 • 5302 Posts

Dam,how I hate my goverment:evil:

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deactivated-5e836a855beb2

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#179 deactivated-5e836a855beb2
Member since 2005 • 95573 Posts
Good.
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whipassmt

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#180 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts

Scumbag Britain

The British Humanist Association (BHA) has precluded the teaching [of creationism], as an evidence-based view or theory, of any view or theory that is contrary to established scientific and/or historical evidence and explanations is prohibited

What this means is, no school, even private and free is allowed to teach creationism as part of their curriculum to students.

This is a big step for human advancement, and I could only dream of such a thing happening in the Dark Ages of America.

Blue-Sky

I wonder how Britain could have the legal authority to decide private school curricula? The U.S. can't do that, though I think most private schools in Britain receive gov't funding which may be Britain's justification. Also what authority does the BHA have, it sounds like it's just a private group of secularists by the name of it. Oh and how does this affect homeschooling (though I doubt the British government would be able to even know if kids are taught creationism in home schools or not).

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Ilovegames1992

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#181 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

I've never known one homeschooled person. I didn't even know homeschooling existed until i saw that episode of South Park.

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DeX2010

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#182 DeX2010
Member since 2010 • 3989 Posts
[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] Really you like the architecture of Westfield Stratford? The place is the epitome of generic, shiny supermall.

When I went there, although there were a lot of people, it seemed unlike any other mall I've been to. And I've been to a lot of malls, in places like India, America, Dubai, Canada, etc.

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surrealnumber5

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#184 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

Good.Jandurin
not saying this is how laws work in the UK, but here in the states we would see teachers get in deep water the second a student brought up a barred topic, it would not matter the teachers response, some special interest group would get wind of it and would get pissed and the teacher would be reprimanded. i would rather it not be taught but at the same time not be against any censorship laws. not teaching =/= banning

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Engrish_Major

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#185 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
If the parents don't like it, nothing is stopping them from teaching their kids creationism at home on their own time. Or on Sunday at their church. It has no place in schools though.
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surrealnumber5

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#186 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
If the parents don't like it, nothing is stopping them from teaching their kids creationism at home on their own time. Or on Sunday at their church. It has no place in schools though.Engrish_Major
not even sunday school !?
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Engrish_Major

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#187 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]If the parents don't like it, nothing is stopping them from teaching their kids creationism at home on their own time. Or on Sunday at their church. It has no place in schools though.surrealnumber5
not even sunday school !?

I said "Sunday at their church".
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Ilovegames1992

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#188 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Good.surrealnumber5

not saying this is how laws work in the UK, but here in the states we would see teachers get in deep water the second a student brought up a barred topic, it would not matter the teachers response, some special interest group would get wind of it and would get pissed and the teacher would be reprimanded. i would rather it not be taught but at the same time not be against any censorship laws. not teaching =/= banning

Think that may happen here too. Although it might get swept under the carpet.

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surrealnumber5

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#189 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]If the parents don't like it, nothing is stopping them from teaching their kids creationism at home on their own time. Or on Sunday at their church. It has no place in schools though.Engrish_Major
not even sunday school !?

I said "Sunday at their church".

but then you said school in general terms. mass is not sunday school
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Engrish_Major

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#190 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] but then you said school in general terms. mass is not sunday school

Where is Sunday school generally held? It's a church function, correct?
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deactivated-5e836a855beb2

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#191 deactivated-5e836a855beb2
Member since 2005 • 95573 Posts
[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] not even sunday school !? surrealnumber5
I said "Sunday at their church".

but then you said school in general terms. mass is not sunday school

Stop being irritating.
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surrealnumber5

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#192 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] but then you said school in general terms. mass is not sunday school Engrish_Major
Where is Sunday school generally held? It's a church function, correct?

a seperate paid function, it is school, it is not the general lecture.
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Engrish_Major

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#193 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] but then you said school in general terms. mass is not sunday school surrealnumber5
Where is Sunday school generally held? It's a church function, correct?

a seperate paid function, it is school, it is not the general lecture.

But it's part of the church, correct? Not compulsory. Not part of the state educational system.
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surrealnumber5

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#194 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] I said "Sunday at their church".Jandurin
but then you said school in general terms. mass is not sunday school

Stop being irritating.

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surrealnumber5

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#195 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] Where is Sunday school generally held? It's a church function, correct?Engrish_Major
a seperate paid function, it is school, it is not the general lecture.

But it's part of the church, correct? Not compulsory. Not part of the state educational system.

state schools are not compulsory either....

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Engrish_Major

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#196 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts

state schools are not compulsory either....

surrealnumber5
Jesus christ. What are you getting at? I already said that they can do whatever the hell they want to do at their church.
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surrealnumber5

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#197 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

state schools are not compulsory either....

Engrish_Major

Jesus christ. What are you getting at? I already said that they can do whatever the hell they want to do at their church.

and this includes schools that are private. it is cool for the state to ban actions on and off of their property? i dont get down with not really owning my property engrish, granted i dont live in the uk so how i feel about this is moot

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Engrish_Major

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#198 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

state schools are not compulsory either....

surrealnumber5

Jesus christ. What are you getting at? I already said that they can do whatever the hell they want to do at their church.

and this includes schools that are private. it is cool for the state to ban actions on and off of their property? i dont get down with not really owning my property engrish, granted i dont live in the uk so how i feel about this is moot

The link provided states "state-funded school".
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dommeus

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#199 dommeus
Member since 2004 • 9433 Posts

I doubt many/any schools taught creationism over here anyway.

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the_plan_man

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#200 the_plan_man
Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts
Then it's no different from America, except there it's banned. Many states ban teaching it, but not on a federal level. However, America is usually relatively quick to follow in Britain's footsteps so all the 30 year-old guys living in their parents basement on this site can rejoice that the U.S will probably ban it as well.