US soldier goes on rampage in Afghanistan killing 16 innocent civilians

Likewise we'd turn an Afghan over to their government. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Likewise we'd turn an Afghan over to their government. kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Likewise we'd turn an Afghan over to their government. LJS9502_basic

:roll: Sure hypocrite... a bunch of people that are not accused of anything... keep drinking the koolaid. And the army officer who did that massacre was during wartime so that is also a war crime.kuraimen

If you're talking about Hasan that wasn't a war crime, as it's normally defined.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]:roll: Sure hypocrite... a bunch of people that are not accused of anything... keep drinking the koolaid. And the army officer who did that massacre was during wartime so that is also a war crime.airshocker

If you're talking about Hasan that wasn't a war crime, as it's normally defined.

Talking to people who are willingly dishonest will do no good. musicalmac

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]Talking to people who are willingly dishonest will do no good. LJS9502_basic

Osama bin Laden isn't a bad guy.

He just had a breakdown.

Justice should be tempered with mercy.

He just needs a good shrink and to rethink his life.

See what I did there?

Most people's thoughts on these issues is based on race/religion/nationality.

One of mine = poor guy had a breakdown

One of yours = genocidal maniac

I'm winning = Might makes right

You're winning = bu bu but morality

This all proves that human beings are nothing but animals, there will never be peace and unity.

I assert that my people should live, even at the slavery and expense of every other people.

I furthermore assert that this is just and moral, and ordained within our own holy books and religion as sacrament.

The above 2 statements make more sense and are more consistent than umpteen pages of opinions.

At the end of the day this is what humans are.

Love yours.

Kill and enslave others.

I'm talking abou the army sargeant who killed those 16 people.kuraimen

Sergeant*, That's technically a war crime, but I don't think they normally set up tribunals on individual grunts. More reserved for state leaders and commanders.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I'm talking abou the army sargeant who killed those 16 people.airshocker

Sergeant*, That's technically a war crime, but I don't think they normally set up tribunals on individual grunts. More reserved for state leaders and commanders.

Nah they'll charge him. Also, considering the American public's outrage at the incident as well as the rest of the worlds', the possibility of the death pentality is pretty damn high.

Osama bin Laden isn't a bad guy.

He just had a breakdown.

Justice should be tempered with mercy.

He just needs a good shrink and to rethink his life.

See what I did there?

Most people's thoughts on these issues is based on race/religion/nationality.

One of mine = poor guy had a breakdown

One of yours = genocidal maniac

I'm winning = Might makes right

You're winning = bu bu but morality

This all proves that human beings are nothing but animals, there will never be peace and unity.

I assert that my people should live, even at the slavery and expense of every other people.

I furthermore assert that this is just and moral, and ordained within our own holy books and religion as sacrament.

The above 2 statements make more sense and are more consistent than umpteen pages of opinions.

At the end of the day this is what humans are.

Love yours.

Kill and enslave others.

ZombieKiller7

Nah they'll charge him. Also, considering the American public's outrage at the incident as well as the rest of the worlds', the possibility of the death pentality is pretty damn high.

Wasdie

Yes, they'll charge him with murder, not war crimes.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I'm talking abou the army sargeant who killed those 16 people.airshocker

Sergeant*, That's technically a war crime, but I don't think they normally set up tribunals on individual grunts. More reserved for state leaders and commanders.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I'm talking abou the army sargeant who killed those 16 people.Wasdie

Sergeant*, That's technically a war crime, but I don't think they normally set up tribunals on individual grunts. More reserved for state leaders and commanders.

Nah they'll charge him. Also, considering the American public's outrage at the incident as well as the rest of the worlds', the possibility of the death pentality is pretty damn high.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Nah they'll charge him. Also, considering the American public's outrage at the incident as well as the rest of the worlds', the possibility of the death pentality is pretty damn high.

airshocker

Yes, they'll charge him with murder, not war crimes.

An NCO doesn't automatically fall under the category of "grunt" and he may very well be charged with a war crime.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Sergeant*, That's technically a war crime, but I don't think they normally set up tribunals on individual grunts. More reserved for state leaders and commanders.

LJS9502_basic

Nah they'll charge him. Also, considering the American public's outrage at the incident as well as the rest of the worlds', the possibility of the death pentality is pretty damn high.

Not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just acknowledging that is how it is.

Are you talking about Afghanistan or in general?kuraimen

In general, since there has to be a war crime tribunal set up in order to charge someone with war crimes. They don't do that for individual soldiers.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Nah they'll charge him. Also, considering the American public's outrage at the incident as well as the rest of the worlds', the possibility of the death pentality is pretty damn high.

Wasdie

Yes, they'll charge him with murder, not war crimes.

An NCO doesn't automatically fall under the category of "grunt" and he may very well be charged with a war crime.

An NCO doesn't automatically fall under the category of "grunt" and he may very well be charged with a war crime.

Wasdie

Eh, an E-5 is still pretty much treated like a grunt. I doubt very much they're going to go to all the trouble of setting up a tribunal for Sergeant Dipstick.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Are you talking about Afghanistan or in general?airshocker

In general, since there has to be a war crime tribunal set up in order to charge someone with war crimes. They don't do that for individual soldiers.

Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a formal accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Are you talking about Afghanistan or in general?kuraimen

In general, since there has to be a war crime tribunal set up in order to charge someone with war crimes. They don't do that for individual soldiers.

Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a formal accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...

Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a former accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...kuraimen

No, Afghanistan wouldn't be capable of imprisoning him safely, if that was the verdict.

The US will try him under the UCMJ.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

In general, since there has to be a war crime tribunal set up in order to charge someone with war crimes. They don't do that for individual soldiers.

LJS9502_basic

Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a formal accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a former accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...airshocker

No, Afghanistan wouldn't be capable of imprisoning him safely, if that was the verdict.

The US will try him under the UCMJ.

I think they couldn't do much worse than Guantanamo...kuraimen

:lol: I think you give far too much credit to the Afghani government.

But last I checked, Guantanamo Bay treats their detainees very well. I'd love to see any prison in the middle east treat an American half as well.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a formal accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...

kuraimen

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Well still the US holds lots of people in Guantanamo without trial or even a formal accusation. I guess it would be only fair to let Afghanistan deal with this guy...

kuraimen

Guantanamo Bay treats their detainees very well. I'd love to see any prison in the middle east treat an American half as well.airshocker

Okay and in the ME they release people suspected quickly?

LJS9502_basic

Of course LJ, stop being dumb.

Iran released those three innocent hikers very quickly!

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You still aren't or won't see the difference. This guy snapped and acted individually....those in Guatanamo are suspected of acting against the state...ie country. Don't compare apples and oranges whether or not you agree with the detention.pie-junior

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You still aren't or won't see the difference. This guy snapped and acted individually....those in Guatanamo are suspected of acting against the state...ie country. Don't compare apples and oranges whether or not you agree with the detention.LJS9502_basic

That's not what I've heard or seen. Claims of torturing, suicides, those photos where they are kept restrained like animals, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#Prisoner_complaintskuraimen

Since you don't work I can understand how those "complaints" would all sound true to you.

The BBC, TIME, and National Geographic(to name a few), paint a very different picture when it comes to Guantanamo Bay.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]That's not what I've heard or seen. Claims of torturing, suicides, those photos where they are kept restrained like animals, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#Prisoner_complaintsairshocker

Since you don't work I can understand how those "complaints" would all sound true to you.

The BBC, TIME, and National Geographic(to name a few), paint a very different picture when it comes to Guantanamo Bay.

Source? I do work and what does that have to do with believing those complaints? That doesn't even make sense. Why should I trust the US government?kuraimen

TIME, BBC, and National Geographic...? You do? Funny, you never answered me in that previous thread when I asked you(I believe it was three times)what you did for a living. Care to answer that now?

The point is, if you actually worked, you would know there are people who just like to complain. That's why I wouldn't take prisoner's complaints very seriously.

[QUOTE="pie-junior"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Most of the detainees in Guantanamo don't even have a formal accusation, how would you know what they are suspect of? several of them have spent years there and then released without any accusation ever being brought up.kuraimen

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Information so far would indicate that the guy had a breakdown and his actions would not seem intentional. However the question still remains of wether or not he should be handed over to the afgans.

From the interviews seen on TV it looks like they think it was a deliberate action.

tenaka2

Screw that not even their own want to go into that so-called justice system.

I agree that by my standards also the justice system there is barbaric, however is it fair to let this guy go unpunished (in the eyes of the afgans obviously).

Ft. Leavenworh is no walk in the park...I'd rather die than go there. You think civilian prison sucks, try out military prison.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Source? I do work and what does that have to do with believing those complaints? That doesn't even make sense. Why should I trust the US government?airshocker

TIME, BBC, and National Geographic...? You do? Funny, you never answered me in that previous thread when I asked you(I believe it was three times)what you did for a living. Care to answer that now?

The point is, if you actually worked, you would know there are people who just like to complain. That's why I wouldn't take prisoner's complaints very seriously.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I think they couldn't do much worse than Guantanamo...airshocker

:lol: I think you give far too much credit to the Afghani government.

But last I checked, Guantanamo Bay treats their detainees very well. I'd love to see any prison in the middle east treat an American half as well.

Didn't they just build them a $800,000 soccer field at Guantanamo?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="pie-junior"] The point of an administrative arrest is compeletly different than the rationales of a criminal arrest.

pie-junior

Well looks to me that "administrative arrest" figure is very convenient to hold anyone at any point in time for as long as they want without any accusation or trial whatsoever. Not much better than those dictatorships or oppressive regimes the US loves to complain about...

[QUOTE="Vaultboy-101"]

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

So the taliban can kill high ranking servicemen in a secure facility and the innocent people can throw rocks and set fires but this guy is a "deuche" yeah got it. Guess the men and women KIA plus the uncounted who have been hurt get no love. Personally I don't endorse what was done but I can understand why he did it if he did plan it.

no-scope-AK47

You fail to mention the rest of the Afghan population that has been KIA by the U.S soldiers. It's quite obvious that the civilians don't like the opressive Americans at all, so yes, they can set fires and throw rocks, it's there own country. Although it's foolish, anyone throwing a rock over there at a U.S soldier will probably get a military grenade thrown at themselves, innocent ot not.

I would never want to go to war with a bleeding heart liberal like you. Kid it is war you go where you are told and things happen. There is enough ordnance there to wipe everybody out but you think we just kill at will. I would like to see another country fight in a urban theater with so few civilian casualties. I guess you missed out on the whole taliban terrorist thing huh. They killed more civilians than we ever did in the same country. Soliders make it possible for you to sit home safe and type crap on the internet about them. You think they are so great how about you go there and see what happens if you think they are such nice people. Hell we just freed 2 french reporters last year who were kidnapped.

You think you can do better get off your ass and go fight for your country instead of talking BS. Put your money where your mouth is. If you still think america is so bad come talk about it here.

Hmm judging by the lack of your knowledge on the subject or lack of showing it, i'd say you should ask more questions when listening to your dad rant about his own government. By the way, usually when someone uses the word kid as an insult they are under the age of 20. Only a child would be bold enough to not only assume someones age over the internet, a place where most posters are anonymous. But also use it condescendingly. Nothing's worse than a highly oppinionated person with no real opinions.

EDIT: One more thing... if you can understand why he would plan to kill 9 children, 16 civillians total, you're one messed up person.

[QUOTE="pie-junior"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Wut? Explain yourself.kuraimen

Well looks to me that "administrative arrest" figure is very convenient to hold anyone at any point in time for as long as they want without any accusation or trial whatsoever. Not much better than those dictatorships or oppressive regimes the US loves to complain about...

God dammit my post got deleted! In summary, do you have specific sources not general ones? And even then the accusations don't magically become invalid. I have already said many times what I work on here, what difference does that make? I work in computer research and cognitive science research at a university. I take complains from prisoners who have been held indefinitely without any formal accusation seriously yes. Any human being should.kuraimen

What about my sources isn't specific? TIME, BBC, NatGeo, even Al-Jazeera, have all done pieces on Guantanamo Bay that actually show the prison in a good light. You can just type them into Google when you get a chance.

I was just curious. What university? And by that I mean do you work in the US.

I don't. I don't take complaints from criminals very seriously either, Of course someone who thinks they have been wronged are going to complain.

Didn't they just build them a $800,000 soccer field at Guantanamo?

SpartanMSU

Yeah, the DoD will be losing that money from their budget, thankfully.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I think they couldn't do much worse than Guantanamo...SpartanMSU

:lol: I think you give far too much credit to the Afghani government.

But last I checked, Guantanamo Bay treats their detainees very well. I'd love to see any prison in the middle east treat an American half as well.

Didn't they just build them a $800,000 soccer field at Guantanamo?

Sometimes I wonder if Guantanamo is really a military prison or actually a tropical resort.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]God dammit my post got deleted! In summary, do you have specific sources not general ones? And even then the accusations don't magically become invalid. I have already said many times what I work on here, what difference does that make? I work in computer research and cognitive science research at a university. I take complains from prisoners who have been held indefinitely without any formal accusation seriously yes. Any human being should.airshocker

What about my sources isn't specific? TIME, BBC, NatGeo, even Al-Jazeera, have all done pieces on Guantanamo Bay that actually show the prison in a good light. You can just type them into Google when you get a chance.

I was just curious. What university? And by that I mean do you work in the US.

I don't. I don't take complaints from criminals very seriously either, Of course someone who thinks they have been wronged are going to complain.

Very suspicious that you can't even provide one direct link. According to Wikipedia these are the media documentaries and programs about Guantanamo

• Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay, 2008 comedy film
• The Road to Guantánamo, 2006 film about the Tipton Three
• Guantanamo - American Officer Tortures Prisoners and Murders Investigator in an Iranian TV Drama, 2006 Iranian drama shown on Al-Kawthar TV and noted by the Middle East Media Research Institute
• Camp Delta, Guantanamo 2006, France culture.com, April 30, 2006—a radio feature by Frank Smith.
• Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantanamo, a memoir by Murat Kurnaz.
• Frontline: The Torture Question (2005), a PBS documentary that traces the history of how decisions made in Washington in the immediate aftermath of September 11 led to a robust interrogation policy that laid the groundwork for prisoner abuse in Afghanistan, Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.[257]
• Gitmo – The New Rules of War, an award winning Swedish documentary by Erik Gandini and Tarik Saleh/ATMO, raises some of the issues concerning the nature of the interrogation processes, through interviews with previous Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib personnel. It has won several awards including 1st prize-Seattle International Film Festival '06
• Habeas Schmabeas, an episode of the radio program This American Life produced by Chicago Public Radio, discussed the conditions at the facility, the legal justifications and arguments surrounding the detention of prisoners there, and the history of the principle of Habeas Corpus. It also features interviews with two former detainees. The episode won a 2006 Peabody Award.[258]
• Prisoner 345 (2006) details the case of Al Jazeera cameraman Sami Al Hajj, detained at the camp since 2002.
• Taxi to the Dark Side (2007) gives an in-depth look at the torture practices, focusing on an innocent taxi driver in Afghanistan who was tortured and killed in 2002.
• GITMO: Inside the Wire (2008) an hour-long documentary by film-maker David Miller and journalist Yvonne Ridley after the two were given unprecedented access to the camp in May 2008. It has won several awards including a nomination at the Roma TV Festival in 2009
• Prisonnier à Guantanamo (2008) Mollah Abdul Salam Zaeef and Jean-Michel Caradec'h. Paris. France. EDGV/Documents. ISBN 978-2-84267-945-3. Memoirs of the ex-ambassador of Taliban government in Pakistan.
• New York (2009) ,an Indian movie about an American Muslim of Indian origin being detained at the U.S. prison.
• Outside The Law: Stories From Guantánamo (2009) a British documentary, featuring interviews with previous Guantánamo detainees, a former U.S. Military Chaplain at Guantánamo Bay and human rights organisations such as Cageprisoners Ltd.
• A Base de Guantanamo (The Guantánamo Bay) is the Sixth song of the 2009 album Zii e Zie by Caetano Veloso
• Protest Against Obama Guantanamo PolicyThe Real News (video) - January 16, 2011

The only thing who paints it in a good light is this statement

In June 2005, the United States House Committee on Armed Services visited the camp and described it as a "resort" and complimented the quality of the food. However Democratic members of the committee complained that Republicans had blocked the testimony of attorneys representing the prisoners.[126]

And it's from a government committee that comes along with criticisms so that's hardly an independent source...

The evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY against Guantanamo being a lawful or good place for prisioners. And not only prisioners have said that, army officials too.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]That's not what I've heard or seen. Claims of torturing, suicides, those photos where they are kept restrained like animals, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#Prisoner_complaintsairshocker

Since you don't work I can understand how those "complaints" would all sound true to you.

The BBC, TIME, and National Geographic(to name a few), paint a very different picture when it comes to Guantanamo Bay.