USA loses in Iraq

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]To learn from history one first has to understand it. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Exactly, I think you have no clue whatsoever as to what you talk about. History is not about concepts and the definition of an empire vs a country. History is mainly about events and situations. The events and situations surrounding the US current state are similar to those of Rome even if Rome was called an empire back then and the US a country right now. Of course there are differences of context but in the end the overall situation is similar. And yes the US is trying to hold over the land, maybe not by conquering the land like it was done before but under this current context installing puppet regimes is a way to do that. If they can't control their puppet regimes like they failed with Egypt for example their fronts becomes weaker and things start to look very Rome-like in the end. A key to understand history is to use common sense and look at the big picture not to start arguing about difference in concepts like empire vs country which is the 3rd grade equivalent of history.kuraimen

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

all objectives were accomplished, it was a victory

ionusX

except the rebuilding of a stable iraq..

that wasn't the objective

Beaten by guys who live in mud huts and make bombs on the living room floor

mission accomplished

mingmao3046

[QUOTE="ionusX"]

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

all objectives were accomplished, it was a victory

Harisemo

except the rebuilding of a stable iraq..

that wasn't the objective

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"]

Beaten by guys who live in mud huts and make bombs on the living room floor

mission accomplished

BossPerson

I think he's confusing Iraq with Afghanistan

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"]

Beaten by guys who live in mud huts and make bombs on the living room floor

mission accomplished

BossPerson

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="ionusX"]

except the rebuilding of a stable iraq..

BossPerson

that wasn't the objective

Well, this thread will go places.

789shadow

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"]

Beaten by guys who live in mud huts and make bombs on the living room floor

mission accomplished

Fightingfan

They lost in my eyes, it's like the Vietnam war, but I can't tell anyone in the service the truth -.-

Fightingfan

But this isn't as clear if it's a win or loss.

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]

They lost in my eyes, it's like the Vietnam war, but I can't tell anyone in the service the truth -.-

But this isn't as clear if it's a win or loss.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Yeah I understood it. It was you that was making foolish analogies that are not applicable because the basic terms are not in the least similar. The Roman Empire conquered and ruled the lands they conquered. The US is not doing that. And for that reason it's foolish to talk about being spread too thin. Iraq is over. The military is fighting in Afghanistan. Wow.....one area of the world. Really spread around the globe in conflicts isn't it? I take it you failed 3rd grade history as your posts show a very immature reading of the situations.

LJS9502_basic

Read, learn, think a little. Might do you good...

Wrapped in the Star-Spangled Toga

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/01/weekinreview/01goodheart.html?pagewanted=all

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]wow as an iraqi i feel insulted. whered u get the idea with live in mud huts?

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] There's no use talking about these things to a person with the understanding of history of a 3rd grader...kuraimen

Read, learn, think a little. Might do you good...

Wrapped in the Star-Spangled Toga

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"] Its a figure of speech for homeless, they''re in every country including the United States.Fightingfan

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It was insulting dude.....and homeless wouldn't have huts of any structure including mud....and the comment about bombs? Not buying you meant homeless dude. Try again with something believable.

LJS9502_basic

*sigh*

You're right, I forgot, people are dumber then I think. I hope no one honestly thinks that literally.

In war....everyone loses.........scorch-62

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I know. I mean comparing the Roman Empire that extended itself way beyond the homelands to a country that engages and leaves when done is really ignorant of history.LJS9502_basic

Read, learn, think a little. Might do you good...

Wrapped in the Star-Spangled Toga

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Read, learn, think a little. Might do you good...

Wrapped in the Star-Spangled Toga

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] So someone promoted a book in 2007 and that meant something? Clearly if we were like the Roman Empire we'd be ruling the countries and not letting them have their own country. They would in some form belong to the US. Or did you skip that part about the Roman Empire in school? Maybe too busy writing snarky comments in the margin of your history book about the US to find out exactly how the Roman Empire worked...amirit?

LJS9502_basic

So your historic analysis amounts to looking into a map? Gotcha... 2nd grader it is.

In war....everyone loses.........scorch-62

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] You clearly are incapable of even reading an article since the 2007 book was just one example the article writer used while mentioning that the US has been compared to Rome at all times by many many people (even current conservatives) and even the founding fathers thought of it as an empire. So how can anyone trust your knowledge of history if your reading comprehension is so limited?kuraimen

So your historic analysis amounts to looking into a map? Gotcha... 2nd grader it is.

kuraimen, again with your BS...

When was the last time the US won a war anyways? WWII?

When was the last time the US won a war anyways? WWII?

Mozelleple112

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'm talking about the historical reality of Rome....and not some editorial over the promotion of a book. I suggest you google some maps of the Roman Empire and then follow that up with reading the history of said Empire. But then this is your usual sh*t. Bash US...blah blah blah....bash US. Guess you didn't learn anything from the users you told you what people here think of your posts.LJS9502_basic

So your historic analysis amounts to looking into a map? Gotcha... 2nd grader it is.

Me: *Provides link to article analyzing historical parallelisms made between the US and Rome*

LJ: *Fails to get even the main idea behind the article and tells me to go see a map and to learn to read history when he apparently can't even read an article properly*

That's the LJ I know alright...

kuraimen, again with your BS...

Conno08

lol care to point it out or is saying BS all you got?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

So your historic analysis amounts to looking into a map? Gotcha... 2nd grader it is.

kuraimen

Me: *Provides link to article analyzing historical parallelisms made between the US and Rome*

LJ: *Fails to get even the main idea behind the article and tells me to go see a map and to learn to read history when he apparently can't even read an article properly*

That's the LJ I know alright...

That's the Kuraimen I know alright....

PS.....your analogy still fails on the basic differences between how the Roman Empire conquered, subdued, and made theirs the lands/peoples and the US engaging in a war and then backing off and allowing the citizens of said country to their own country. Unless you can show me how these countries now pay tax/tribute/supply the US...then your OPINION Is baseless once AGAIN.

Despite the mistakes and setbacks, we've accomplished pretty much all of our big objectives there. We've changed the trajectory of the country, but it's ultimately not up to us where it goes. Iraq...I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you. fidosim

[QUOTE="fidosim"]Despite the mistakes and setbacks, we've accomplished pretty much all of our big objectives there. We've changed the trajectory of the country, but it's ultimately not up to us where it goes. Iraq...I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you. mingmao3046

That was a casus belli, but not one of our main purposes for invading Iraq.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'd point out where I said read about history but apparently you couldn't read the post so reading history is obviously beyond your abilities.:lol:LJS9502_basic

Me: *Provides link to article analyzing historical parallelisms made between the US and Rome*

LJ: *Fails to get even the main idea behind the article and tells me to go see a map and to learn to read history when he apparently can't even read an article properly*

That's the LJ I know alright...

That's the Kuraimen I know alright....

PS.....your analogy still fails on the basic differences between how the Roman Empire conquered, subdued, and made theirs the lands/peoples and the US engaging in a war and then backing off and allowing the citizens of said country to their own country. Unless you can show me how these countries now pay tax/tribute/supply the US...then your OPINION Is baseless once AGAIN.

Hey I'm not your school teacher. If you can't even grasp some of the basic historical events and analyze them is not my problem. And sending me to look into a map is not a historical source FYI. I'm afraid my analogy is too much for you to comprehend, maybe in another life.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Me: *Provides link to article analyzing historical parallelisms made between the US and Rome*

LJ: *Fails to get even the main idea behind the article and tells me to go see a map and to learn to read history when he apparently can't even read an article properly*

That's the LJ I know alright...

kuraimen

That's the Kuraimen I know alright....

PS.....your analogy still fails on the basic differences between how the Roman Empire conquered, subdued, and made theirs the lands/peoples and the US engaging in a war and then backing off and allowing the citizens of said country to their own country. Unless you can show me how these countries now pay tax/tribute/supply the US...then your OPINION Is baseless once AGAIN.

Hey I'm not your school teacher. If you can't even grasp some of the basic historical events and analyze them is not my problem. And sending me to look into a map is not a historical source FYI. I'm afraid my analogy is too much for you to comprehend, maybe in another life.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Your link didn't provide any scholarly/historically written basis. You provided an editorial about a book. Sorry but that isn't even close to be worth considering as a serious study on the subject. So it's discounted as proof of any evidence. I think it's you that confuses editorial opinion with historical study.

That's the Kuraimen I know alright....

PS.....your analogy still fails on the basic differences between how the Roman Empire conquered, subdued, and made theirs the lands/peoples and the US engaging in a war and then backing off and allowing the citizens of said country to their own country. Unless you can show me how these countries now pay tax/tribute/supply the US...then your OPINION Is baseless once AGAIN.

LJS9502_basic

Hey I'm not your school teacher. If you can't even grasp some of the basic historical events and analyze them is not my problem. And sending me to look into a map is not a historical source FYI. I'm afraid my analogy is too much for you to comprehend, maybe in another life.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Hey I'm not your school teacher. If you can't even grasp some of the basic historical events and analyze them is not my problem. And sending me to look into a map is not a historical source FYI. I'm afraid my analogy is too much for you to comprehend, maybe in another life.

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are pretending I didn't tell you to read history because it would lose the underlying straw man attempt you keep making here. It's kind of pathetic that you have to lie to try to make a point dude.

wis3boi

You don't like what I say? why do people love to be so dumb? just don't read my posts then genius

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] So telling me to go read history is your idea of a historically written basis to your claims? lol OMG, you're quickly falling into the first grader category of historical analysis.kuraimen

You don't like what I say? why do people love to be so dumb? just don't read my posts then genius

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"] Isn't it time for your nap?wis3boi

You don't like what I say? why do people love to be so dumb? just don't read my posts then genius

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Hey I'm not your school teacher. If you can't even grasp some of the basic historical events and analyze them is not my problem. And sending me to look into a map is not a historical source FYI. I'm afraid my analogy is too much for you to comprehend, maybe in another life.

kuraimen

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] So telling me to go read history is your idea of a historically written basis to your claims? lol OMG, you're quickly falling into the first grader category of historical analysis.kuraimen

You don't like what I say? why do people love to be so dumb? just don't read my posts then genius

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are pretending I didn't tell you to read history because it would lose the underlying straw man attempt you keep making here. It's kind of pathetic that you have to lie to try to make a point dude.

LJS9502_basic

I already answered your "major difference" but I guess you failed to comprehend yet again which is not surprising at all. I find it insulting that your debating tactics amount to telling me to go read history and look at a map when you can't even read a link a provided properly. Debating with you is normally insulting to general intelligence.

Isn't it time for your nap?wis3boi

You don't like what I say? why do people love to be so dumb? just don't read my posts then genius

Last time I checked the US defeated the Iraqi Republican Guard in three weeks. And when I mean checked I don't mean on the news or Internet, I mean in person with bombs and bullets not too far away from me. The biggest problem US troops had over there was the rules of engagement we were ordered to follow after beating Saddam and the insurgents who didn't follow the Geneva Convention. They wore no uniforms and they had no problem using civilians as human shields or hiding weapons in schools or Mosques.

A lot of the media was more concerned with ratings so they would report on stuff that would get them advertisers even if it made the US look bad. Projects showing US troops helping build schools didn't get the same ratings as suicide bombings or rogue troops who killed civilians. Also, accusing the US of invading to steal all of Iraq's oil was an easy accusation to make considering how unpopular the Bush Administration was.

Also, I wouldn't even try to compare Iraq to Vietnam. Less than 5,000 troops died in Iraq but over 58,000 died in Vietnam. In addition to that, there was a draft going on during Vietnam where almost all males out of high school were subject to being a part of. With Iraq the military was 100% volunteers and people who wanted nothing to do with it didn't have to worry about going.

Lets see something, the americans could have easly won this war. They should just bomb every Muslim country, starting on Morroco and ending on Mexico, for example. Cause muslims are people that at a very young age are taught to make bombs with just a bottle of whiskey and a matchbox, do ya get me? They are only happy when they are blowing things up. A muslim kid that by the age of 15 hadnt blowed up something is someone who is disrespecting Buddha or whatever. Some gypsy stole my son lunchbox back at school the other day, how can people want world peace when this **** keeps happening? This is also USA military force fault too. I salute them and all but i was in vietnam and i know how this kind of stuff works. Cause many times, on the eve of a battle ( i saw this, nobody told me) there were guys that would just put garlic on their, lets say ass, cause this are the way things are ya know. A garlic up your ass gives you fever, and on the next day there were like " Captain iv got an hugh fever i cant go to battle" and i that never put anything on my ass had to go. So military people respect and all, but you dont fool me. I could have just got shot cause iv never put anything on my ass, not garlic not anything. Thats all i have to say about this war.Drakes_Fortune

lolwut

Lets see something, the americans could have easly won this war. They should just bomb every Muslim country, starting on Morroco and ending on Mexico, for example. Cause muslims are people that at a very young age are taught to make bombs with just a bottle of whiskey and a matchbox, do ya get me? They are only happy when they are blowing things up. A muslim kid that by the age of 15 hadnt blowed up something is someone who is disrespecting Buddha or whatever. Some gypsy stole my son lunchbox back at school the other day, how can people want world peace when this **** keeps happening? This is also USA military force fault too. I salute them and all but i was in vietnam and i know how this kind of stuff works. Cause many times, on the eve of a battle ( i saw this, nobody told me) there were guys that would just put garlic on their, lets say ass, cause this are the way things are ya know. A garlic up your ass gives you fever, and on the next day there were like " Captain iv got an hugh fever i cant go to battle" and i that never put anything on my ass had to go. So military people respect and all, but you dont fool me. I could have just got shot cause iv never put anything on my ass, not garlic not anything. Thats all i have to say about this war.Drakes_Fortune

I like how this thread ends up being ignorant on two points that should make it so no one could possibly agree. Saying all Iraqi's live in mud huts and are barbariands, while claiming the US lost after they displaced the prevous regime, installed a new one, and killed the terrorist leader of Al Qaeda (thus accomplishing all the primary objectives). Yep, total loss.