500 posts! Wow. Just, wow.

Are newborns that are being baptized atheists? No, if they were, they wouldn't be baptized at that time.

bloodling

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]They are both atheism though. Are you telling me one believes in god?LJS9502_basic

No.

Weak atheists lack a belief in god, but can have no assertive position on the matter.

Strong atheists essentially believe there is no god. However, strong atheists are a subgroup of weak atheists, which are essentially atheists in general.

Disbelieve in the sense that they lack a belief in a god...yes.

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Are newborns that are being baptized atheists? No, if they were, they wouldn't be baptized at that time.

BluRayHiDef

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

No.

Weak atheists lack a belief in god, but can have no assertive position on the matter.

Strong atheists essentially believe there is no god. However, strong atheists are a subgroup of weak atheists, which are essentially atheists in general.

SgtKevali

Disbelieve in the sense that they lack a belief in a god...yes.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Are newborns that are being baptized atheists? No, if they were, they wouldn't be baptized at that time.

LJS9502_basic

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Are newborns that are being baptized atheists? No, if they were, they wouldn't be baptized at that time.

BluRayHiDef

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

So religious people should call him their little atheist?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

ihateaynrand

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Are newborns that are being baptized atheists? No, if they were, they wouldn't be baptized at that time.

bloodling

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

So religious people should call him their little atheist?

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Are newborns that are being baptized atheists? No, if they were, they wouldn't be baptized at that time.

LJS9502_basic

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

It's not the same. One need not be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. If I pick-poketed someone's wallet without their knowledge, they'd be without their wallet irrespective of their knowledge regarding that fact.

[QUOTE="ihateaynrand"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Then they are incapable of understanding atheism as well....LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

ihateaynrand

So religious people should call him their little atheist?

Odd indeed.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And yet at the core they both disbelieve in god.LJS9502_basic

Disbelieve in the sense that they lack a belief in a god...yes.

I'm not sure what you don't understand here. Could you rephrase what you're asking?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

They're still atheists because they have no conscious belief in god. They are incapable of understanding the concept.

BluRayHiDef

It's not the same. One need not be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. If I pick-poketed someone's wallet without their knowledge, they'd be without their wallet irrespective of their knowledge regarding that fact.

I think we are all born Nihilists.

ANlMOSITY

We're born squidgy, blubbering balls of egocentric wrinkles. I'd say we're no more born nihilist than a pet hamster is. Atheism and nihilism are beliefs (or rejection of) complex constructs even adults find it hard to process. Quite what the purpose of this thread is I'm not sure really.

Besides, I think suggesting that we're predisposed towards atheism may be flawed - it could be argued that we are predisposed to 'fill in the gaps' in order to make sense of a complex world and perhaps have the propensity to associate these gaps with the supernatural.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Disbelieve in the sense that they lack a belief in a god...yes.

SgtKevali

I'm not sure what you don't understand here. Could you rephrase what you're asking?

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Then they are incapable of understanding atheism as well....LJS9502_basic

It's not the same. One need not be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. If I pick-poketed someone's wallet without their knowledge, they'd be without their wallet irrespective of their knowledge regarding that fact.

How many times do we need to go through this?

Atheism >>A >>Theism = A: Without, Theism: Belief in god(s)

Source:

Atheism, in its broadest sense, is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence ofgods, thus contrasting withtheism. This definition includes both those who assert that there are nogodsand those who have no beliefs at all regarding the existence ofgods. However, narrower definitions often only qualify the former as atheism, the latter falling under the more general term nontheism.Article

In earlyAncient Greek, the adjectiveatheos(from privativea-+theos"god") meant "without gods" or "lack of belief in gods". The word acquired an additional meaning in the5th century BC, expressing a total lack of relations with the gods; that is, "denying the gods, godless, ungodly", with more active connotations thanasebēs, "impious". Modern translations of ****cal texts sometimes translate atheos as "atheistic". As an abstract noun, there was also atheotēs: "atheism".CicerotransliteratedatheosintoLatin. The discussion ofatheoiwas pronounced in the debate between early Christians and pagans, who each attributed atheism to the other.Article

BluRayHiDef

disbelief in the existence of God or gods

I'm hoping that's the last time....

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And the Oxford definition...which I used is disbelief in a god...so the disagreement doesn't exist?LJS9502_basic

I'm not sure what you don't understand here. Could you rephrase what you're asking?

Then you wouldn't have a disagreement with the TC on a technical level.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

I'm not sure what you don't understand here. Could you rephrase what you're asking?

SgtKevali

Then you wouldn't have a disagreement with the TC on a technical level.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

LJS9502_basic

disbelief in the existence of God or gods

I'm hoping that's the last time....

Which definition sounds more convincing to you? The etymological one which relies on the literal meaning of the word based on the words from which it is constructed or one which merely follows a colloquialism? The link I provided actually dove into the history of the word and discussed its original meaning; it was very extensive. All you did was provide a very narrow set of words.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm saying you basically just agreed with what I said earlier.LJS9502_basic

Then you wouldn't have a disagreement with the TC on a technical level.

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

BluRayHiDef

disbelief in the existence of God or gods

I'm hoping that's the last time....

Which definition sounds more convincing to you? The etymological one which relies on the literal meaning of the word based on the words from which it is constructed or one which merely follows a colloquialism? The link I provided actually dove into the history of the word and discussed its original meaning; it was very extensive. All you did was provide a very narrow set of words.

1570s, from Fr. athéiste (16c.), from Gk. atheos "to deny the gods, godless," from a- "without" + theos "a god" (see Thea). A slightly earlier form is represented by atheonism (1530s) which is perhaps from It. atheo "atheist."

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Then you wouldn't have a disagreement with the TC on a technical level.

SgtKevali

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

I highly recommend that you not waste your time. I'm done with him.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Then you wouldn't have a disagreement with the TC on a technical level.

SgtKevali

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

However, you are talking about the thinking of Charles Bradlaugh and his assertion so as to shift the proof. It's not agreed upon by others...including atheists.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ah but I do...as I find atheism to require some thought. You cannot be something if you have no knowledge of it...BluRayHiDef

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

I highly recommend that you not waste your time. I'm done with him.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

LJS9502_basic

I highly recommend that you not waste your time. I'm done with him.

Look. You're wrong, plain and simple. You keep insisting that Atheism does not merely mean to be without belief in god(s), when in fact the word without is built directly into it. WITHOUT belief. Do you get that? Do you understand? It's not difficult. One does not need to be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. It does not require any form of reasoning on the part of the person who is without it. They are without it. period.

NOTE: The word withoutis built right into the word atheism.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ah but I do...as I find atheism to require some thought. You cannot be something if you have no knowledge of it...LJS9502_basic

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

However, you are talking about the thinking of Charles Bradlaugh and his assertion so as to shift the proof. It's not agreed upon by others...including atheists.

That's why I'm saying he's only right on a technical level. Generally when you think of the concepts of theism and atheism, it is thought that some consideration must be behind the position.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Ah but I do...as I find atheism to require some thought. You cannot be something if you have no knowledge of it...LJS9502_basic

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

I highly recommend that you not waste your time. I'm done with him.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

But it is, technically, the default position, as you start out without a belief in god.

gaming25

I highly recommend that you not waste your time. I'm done with him.

I have. I will reply, but not tonight. Tomorrow.

Anyway, rather than continue to digress into more circular arguments about the meaning of the word atheist, can we agree on what the TC is actually saying?

The position that a baby starts out with is lacking a belief in god. That's it. Do you agree or disagree.

Anyway, rather than continue to digress into more circular arguments about the meaning of the word atheist, can we agree on what the TC is actually saying?

The position that a baby starts out with is lacking a belief in god. That's it. Do you agree or disagree.

SgtKevali

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I highly recommend that you not waste your time. I'm done with him.

BluRayHiDef

Look. You're wrong, plain and simple. You keep insisting that Atheism does not merely mean to be without belief in god(s), when in fact the word without is built directly into it. WITHOUT belief. Do you get that? Do you understand? It's not difficult. One does not need to be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. It does not require any form of reasoning on the part of the person who is without it. They are without it. period.

NOTE: The word withoutis built right into the word atheism.

Anyway, rather than continue to digress into more circular arguments about the meaning of the word atheist, can we agree on what the TC is actually saying?

The position that a baby starts out with is lacking a belief in god. That's it. Do you agree or disagree.

SgtKevali

According to dictionary.com:

a·the·ist

[ey-thee-ist]
–noun

apersonwhodeniesordisbelievestheexistenceofasupremebeingorbeings.

Even if atheism represents a lack of belief in god, I don't see how that matters.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You seem to say that every time you cannot counter a post.LJS9502_basic

Look. You're wrong, plain and simple. You keep insisting that Atheism does not merely mean to be without belief in god(s), when in fact the word without is built directly into it. WITHOUT belief. Do you get that? Do you understand? It's not difficult. One does not need to be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. It does not require any form of reasoning on the part of the person who is without it. They are without it. period.

NOTE: The word withoutis built right into the word atheism.

The word without is part of the original Greek word from which it is translated.

ἄθεος: the prefix "ἄ" means without. The root "θεος" means belief in gods. Hence, by the very construction of the word, it literally means without belief in god(s).

How can you refute this? This is a linguistic fact. It is utterly irrefutable.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Look. You're wrong, plain and simple. You keep insisting that Atheism does not merely mean to be without belief in god(s), when in fact the word without is built directly into it. WITHOUT belief. Do you get that? Do you understand? It's not difficult. One does not need to be aware that they are without something in order to be without it. It does not require any form of reasoning on the part of the person who is without it. They are without it. period.

NOTE: The word withoutis built right into the word atheism.

BluRayHiDef

The word without is part of the original Greek word from which it is translated.

ἄθεος: the prefix "ἄ" means without. The root "θεος" means belief in gods. Hence, by the very construction of the word, it literally means without belief in god(s).

How can you refute this? This is a linguistic fact. It is utterly irrefutable.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Anyway, rather than continue to digress into more circular arguments about the meaning of the word atheist, can we agree on what the TC is actually saying?

The position that a baby starts out with is lacking a belief in god. That's it. Do you agree or disagree.

LJS9502_basic

Exactly, but he does lack a belief in god. Ergo, it is the default position.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No...only your unsourced quotes use that as the definition. Again....according to the Oxford Dictionary atheism is..disbelief in the existence of God or gods. The word without is NOT in that definition at all....LJS9502_basic

The word without is part of the original Greek word from which it is translated.

ἄθεος: the prefix "ἄ" means without. The root "θεος" means belief in gods. Hence, by the very construction of the word, it literally means without belief in god(s).

How can you refute this? This is a linguistic fact. It is utterly irrefutable.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Anyway, rather than continue to digress into more circular arguments about the meaning of the word atheist, can we agree on what the TC is actually saying?

The position that a baby starts out with is lacking a belief in god. That's it. Do you agree or disagree.

SgtKevali

Exactly, but he does lack a belief in god. Ergo, it is the default position.

Hence, my argument stands.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Anyway, rather than continue to digress into more circular arguments about the meaning of the word atheist, can we agree on what the TC is actually saying?

The position that a baby starts out with is lacking a belief in god. That's it. Do you agree or disagree.

SgtKevali

Exactly, but he does lack a belief in god. Ergo, it is the default position.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] As the baby is not cognizant...he does not lack what he cannot know. I disagree with the entirety of the premise in this thread.LJS9502_basic

Exactly, but he does lack a belief in god. Ergo, it is the default position.

Of course you can. A better phrase would be "he doesn't have a belief in a god".

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Exactly, but he does lack a belief in god. Ergo, it is the default position.

SgtKevali

Of course you can. A better phrase would be "he doesn't have a belief in a god".

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No. You cannot lack a concept you do not understand. LJS9502_basic

Of course you can. A better phrase would be "he doesn't have a belief in a god".

Again, that depends on the definition. I'm not going to argue about the definition anymore, as we will just keep going in circles.

However, do you agree that a baby starts out without a belief in a god? That's pretty much the TC's argument, as the definition he is using for atheism is that, regardless of whether that's the definition you use.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Of course you can. A better phrase would be "he doesn't have a belief in a god".

SgtKevali

Again, that depends on the definition. I'm not going to argue about the definition anymore, as we will just keep going in circles.

However, do you agree that a baby starts out without a belief in a god? That's pretty much the TC's argument, as the definition he is using for atheism is that, regardless of whether that's the definition you use.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Exactly, but he does lack a belief in god. Ergo, it is the default position.

SgtKevali

Of course you can. A better phrase would be "he doesn't have a belief in a god".

Belief is based on decision and opinion. Newborns don't have an opinion on the subject.

Kids who didn't learn evolution don't necessarily not believe in evolution as a default position, they don't know, there is no belief to speak of. If you asked them, they wouldn't answer "no", they would answer "I don't know".

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Which does not make one atheist....LJS9502_basic

Again, that depends on the definition. I'm not going to argue about the definition anymore, as we will just keep going in circles.

However, do you agree that a baby starts out without a belief in a god? That's pretty much the TC's argument, as the definition he is using for atheism is that, regardless of whether that's the definition you use.

That's not what I said. I didn't say anything about a nonbelief, whatever that is.

Do you agree that a baby starts out without a belief in a god? As in, the baby has no position on the matter. Do you believe that the baby starts out without a position on the matter?