What if you believe in God but think he's a jerk?

What always amazes me is how God is portrayed so differently in the Old and New Testaments in the Bible. In the New, he's a kind and loving God. In the Old, he'll kill you without a second thought if you piss him off.

What always amazes me is how God is portrayed so differently in the Old and New Testaments in the Bible. In the New, he's a kind and loving God. In the Old, he'll kill you without a second thought if you piss him off.

Vari3ty

[QUOTE="jshaas"][QUOTE="wis3boi"] God sucks ass. I just said that. I'm still sitting here.Brawler-Dude

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

Think about how many disputes would end if God simply showed himself.

Even on the accounts of seeing him in the Bible were always in solitude. Why did Moses have to go to the mountain top by himself to speak to God? God couldn't just speak to him right there? In front of everyone? Why he gotta be a secret?

Philokalia

They weren't allin solitude... The Israelites witnessed the mana from heaven, the miracles of Moses and the same can be said of the New testament. But why does God need to reveal himself to any standard we humans demand of him? I happen to believe he has sufficiently revealed himself in the person of Christ, and quite convincingly so mind you.

[QUOTE="Brawler-Dude"]

what are you trying to say?

Philokalia

You implied that because we are to love God before everyone else, this must mean leaving Children behind in the dust (correct me if I am wrong). But we are also told by Christ to love each other as he has loved us.

[QUOTE="Brawler-Dude"]

[QUOTE="jshaas"] Funny you would say that while having the lead singer of Paramore all over your profile here. Most of their songs are based on their Faith.jshaas

Simple: because he's demanding a standard from us that if not accepted condemns us eternally. For what he's asking, he damn well OWES it to us. MirkoS77

Well I think its hard to justify any sort of meaningful argument that he has not given us enough reason and or evidence for his existence. But I would ask, why does God owe us anything? If anything we owe God everything for the cause of our existance and grace he gives.

I was just saying in a nut shell what the other guy said. But truly, I'm noting going to sit here and bash, because if it is what you believe that is fine and ok with me. But truly why can we not place someone above that line. I understand he is meant to be the "creator" but as the creator wouldn't god want us to be as happy as possible, even if that means to love another human being more then him. Sure humans aren't perfect, in anyway thought possible, but then again what does make god perfect in a sense. Just because he is a all powerful being? So does that mean a alien comes down from outspace with super powers he is perfect in ever way? No it doesn't, the point I'm truly trying to make, why are we forced to live by that rule and not by our own, a guidline if you may say, why is it that when you hold your new born child in your hands that little baby can't be the love of your life?

Brawler-Dude

Ahh I do indeed believe God wants us to be happy, and that happiness comes from loving God who gives more love than we could ever hope to give. From the Christian perspective here is how I see it. The eternal God became man, so as to redeem mankind, he took on all the affirmities we have without sinning himself and died a terrible and painful death, not only this but his ressurection forshadows the promise of God to the prophets in the Old testament. I believe we can be more than happy by loving God most before everyone, and an example of this would be the monks of Mount Athos who live a life in devotion to God, Praying continiously, a simple living, simple foods and yet those who stay truely don't want to give up their stay for anything the world has to offer.

What always amazes me is how God is portrayed so differently in the Old and New Testaments in the Bible. In the New, he's a kind and loving God. In the Old, he'll kill you without a second thought if you piss him off.

Vari3ty

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"] Simple: because he's demanding a standard from us that if not accepted condemns us eternally. For what he's asking, he damn well OWES it to us. Philokalia

Well I think its hard to justify any sort of meaningful argument that he has not given us enough reason and or evidence for his existence. But I would ask, why does God owe us anything? If anything we owe God everything for the cause of our existance and grace he gives.

You part from the presumption that we think God created us. Fact is, Phil (hope you don't mind me calling you that), a good part of us doesn't. I can't think of any good body of proof God has given that he exists as he was described in the bible -- I'm much more inclined to believe in him as an abstract being, interpreted differently by different cultures and people, that isn't as tangible as described in the bible.

[QUOTE="Brawler-Dude"]

I was just saying in a nut shell what the other guy said. But truly, I'm noting going to sit here and bash, because if it is what you believe that is fine and ok with me. But truly why can we not place someone above that line. I understand he is meant to be the "creator" but as the creator wouldn't god want us to be as happy as possible, even if that means to love another human being more then him. Sure humans aren't perfect, in anyway thought possible, but then again what does make god perfect in a sense. Just because he is a all powerful being? So does that mean a alien comes down from outspace with super powers he is perfect in ever way? No it doesn't, the point I'm truly trying to make, why are we forced to live by that rule and not by our own, a guidline if you may say, why is it that when you hold your new born child in your hands that little baby can't be the love of your life?

Philokalia

Ahh I do indeed believe God wants us to be happy, and that happiness comes from loving God who gives more love than we could ever hope to give. From the Christian perspective here is how I see it. The eternal God became man, so as to redeem mankind, he took on all the affirmities we have without sinning himself and died a terrible and painful death, not only this but his ressurection forshadows the promise of God to the prophets in the Old testament. I believe we can be more than happy by loving God most before everyone, and an example of this would be the monks of Mount Athos who live a life in devotion to God, Praying continiously, a simple living, simple foods and yet those who stay truely don't want to give up their stay for anything the world has to offer.

You part from the presumption that we think God created us. Fact is, Phil (hope you don't mind me calling you that), a good part of us doesn't. I can't think of any good body of proof God has given that he exists as he was described in the bible -- I'm much more inclined to believe in him as an abstract being, interpreted differently by different cultures and people, that isn't as tangible as described in the bible.

iHarlequin

Well the arguments are out there, perhaps during our stay on gamespot I'll be able to give some which I find convincing, specifically the historical witness for the ressurection of Christ. But it is hard to say I still maintain, that man should demand a certain set of evidences from God that his existence should be known. This wouldn't neccesarily mean that most would come to him either.

Your missing my point. I'm not saying at all people can't be happy that way, if it what makes you happy who am I to tell you otherwise. but the point I'm trying to make, is why cant you love someone else as much if not more.

Brawler-Dude

Well Christ tells us he who does not hate his brother and mother (paraphrased) and loves him is not worthy of him. Of course this is obviously not a literal hatred as Christ everywhere else tells us that we should love, that the greatest commandments are to love God and thy neighbour so this verse must be understood in that light. Rather Christ is saying that we must not be prepared to give him up for anyone, that we must love him before men because they might lead us astray. And I believe man will achieve a happiness more so than any love for another individual, platonic, Sexual and the like, if he loves God before all. And its not as if this love is one way. The entire Incarnation depicts God's love for mankind that his only son should be sent and that God should die for us and raise for us, giving us hope of the ressurection that the flesh is not worthless but has meaning and value.

[QUOTE="Brawler-Dude"]

Your missing my point. I'm not saying at all people can't be happy that way, if it what makes you happy who am I to tell you otherwise. but the point I'm trying to make, is why cant you love someone else as much if not more.

Philokalia

Well Christ tells us he who does not hate his brother and mother (paraphrased) and loves him is not worthy of him. Of course this is obviously not a literal hatred as Christ everywhere else tells us that we should love, that the greatest commandments are to love God and thy neighbour so this verse must be understood in that light. Rather Christ is saying that we must not be prepared to give him up for anyone, that we must love him before men because they might lead us astray. And I believe man will achieve a happiness more so than any love for another individual, platonic, Sexual and the like, if he loves God before all. And its not as if this love is one way. The entire Incarnation depicts God's love for mankind that his only son should be sent and that God should die for us and raise for us, giving us hope of the ressurection that the flesh is not worthless but has meaning and value.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"] Simple: because he's demanding a standard from us that if not accepted condemns us eternally. For what he's asking, he damn well OWES it to us. Philokalia

Well I think its hard to justify any sort of meaningful argument that he has not given us enough reason and or evidence for his existence. But I would ask, why does God owe us anything? If anything we owe God everything for the cause of our existance and grace he gives.

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"] Simple: because he's demanding a standard from us that if not accepted condemns us eternally. For what he's asking, he damn well OWES it to us. MirkoS77

Well I think its hard to justify any sort of meaningful argument that he has not given us enough reason and or evidence for his existence. But I would ask, why does God owe us anything? If anything we owe God everything for the cause of our existance and grace he gives.

reminds me of a quote from pitch black, i forget the exact words though.Sword-Demon

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"][QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Well I think its hard to justify any sort of meaningful argument that he has not given us enough reason and or evidence for his existence. But I would ask, why does God owe us anything? If anything we owe God everything for the cause of our existance and grace he gives.

GameGuy642003

You're right, He didn't have to create us. But this is what I don't understand......what exactly is it that makes creation and existence gifts and something to be grateful for? In what sense can they be viewed as objectively good? Some people consider life a gift, some don't, and considering how horrific this world can be, I don't blame them. And if God is asking for us to believe in him, no He doesn't need to give us as much knowledge as He has, but He doesn't have to. Just enough to be assured of His existence.

Have you ever noticed everyone who believes in God just so happens to think he's the ****? Can't you kind of be like, "I know you created me and all, but I think murdering someone for having a campfire on Sunday is kind of mean."

Does anyone feel this way? Or has anyone felt this way?

Labavo

I felt this way all the time when I was religious. This is one of the reasons why I stopped believing in him actually.

[QUOTE="GameGuy642003"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]No, we do not owe God anything because we didn't consent to being created. But if He is asking us to believe and dedicate ours lives to Him, he owes us more than simple faith. Faith is not fact, and to hold anybody to such a standard when something's not assured is unfair. MirkoS77

You're right, He didn't have to create us. But this is what I don't understand......what exactly is it that makes creation and existence gifts and something to be grateful for? In what sense can they be viewed as objectively good? Some people consider life a gift, some don't, and considering how horrific this world can be, I don't blame them. And if God is asking for us to believe in him, no He doesn't need to give us as much knowledge as He has, but He doesn't have to. Just enough to be assured of His existence.

A narcissistic and sadistic "God" who likes to do bad things to people is not what I would consider a worthy God.

As Bill Maher once said:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why even call him God?

pariah3

[QUOTE="Brawler-Dude"]

Your missing my point. I'm not saying at all people can't be happy that way, if it what makes you happy who am I to tell you otherwise. but the point I'm trying to make, is why cant you love someone else as much if not more.

Philokalia

Well Christ tells us he who does not hate his brother and mother (paraphrased) and loves him is not worthy of him. Of course this is obviously not a literal hatred as Christ everywhere else tells us that we should love, that the greatest commandments are to love God and thy neighbour so this verse must be understood in that light. Rather Christ is saying that we must not be prepared to give him up for anyone, that we must love him before men because they might lead us astray. And I believe man will achieve a happiness more so than any love for another individual, platonic, Sexual and the like, if he loves God before all. And its not as if this love is one way. The entire Incarnation depicts God's love for mankind that his only son should be sent and that God should die for us and raise for us, giving us hope of the ressurection that the flesh is not worthless but has meaning and value.

... So much meaningless and contradictory waffle ...

[QUOTE="pariah3"]

A narcissistic and sadistic "God" who likes to do bad things to people is not what I would consider a worthy God.

As Bill Maher once said:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why even call him God?

ChampionoChumps

[QUOTE="Sword-Demon"]reminds me of a quote from pitch black, i forget the exact words though.foxhound_fox

I would disagree. At least when it comes to religion he's pertty spot on.

junglist101

Cause religilous was sooo intellectual, i mean its not like he didn't ask the best and brightest Christianity has to offer and ask a passionate actor instead.

[QUOTE="junglist101"]

I would disagree. At least when it comes to religion he's pertty spot on.

Philokalia

Cause religilous was sooo intellectual, i mean its not like he didn't ask the best and brightest Christianity has to offer and ask a passionate actor instead.

[QUOTE="ChampionoChumps"][QUOTE="pariah3"]

A narcissistic and sadistic "God" who likes to do bad things to people is not what I would consider a worthy God.

As Bill Maher once said:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why even call him God?

junglist101

Religulous is a joke. Bill Maher interviewed nut jobs, of course he's going to make religion look ridiculous. From what I remeber, there was one respectable interviewee in the entire bunch. It was funny, but that's about it.

I'm agnostic btw. I never understood how athiests could be so sure of themselves when they have no proof God doesn't exist.

So if I live a happy life, don't do bad things to people, treat everyone around me equally etc, but i don't bow down to the feet of "God", I am still going to an eternity of fire and torture? Yeah sounds like a jerk to me.

On the other hand someone can rape women, kids, murder people, and towards the end of their life accept Jesus Christ as their savior, and all is forgiven God just says "come on up, enjoy the party baby". Do people realize how stupid this fairy tale is?

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="GameGuy642003"] God didnt have to create us, I'm sure you'll agree with me. So why did he do it? I mean if he created us can we really understand the mind of the creator and why he would allow us to live. Should God give us as much knowledge as He himself holds?wis3boi

You're right, He didn't have to create us. But this is what I don't understand......what exactly is it that makes creation and existence gifts and something to be grateful for? In what sense can they be viewed as objectively good? Some people consider life a gift, some don't, and considering how horrific this world can be, I don't blame them. And if God is asking for us to believe in him, no He doesn't need to give us as much knowledge as He has, but He doesn't have to. Just enough to be assured of His existence.

Ok I get what you guys are saying. Seems like the question you dont have trouble with is whether God exists, but rather is He really all good? Thats a big question. One that everyone must ask including me.

This is how I personally understand this predicament, if you could bare with my reasoning which is not air tight. I believe that God created us solely to worship Him and by worshiping Him we glorify Him and by glorifying Him that will fill us with grace, completeness, wholeness, and an identity. If one doesn't do this then that would be proof that this person is cut off from this identity, therefore you have these people that ask how is God good or why should I be grateful for living, its all S*(& anyway? To get back to God so we can have this completeness and wholeness how do we do it? I believe that we can not do it, if you are one of those people that don't believe God is worthy of worship then there is nothing you can do nor anyone else can do to change your mind. I believe that the only person that can change your mentality is actually God Himself, where he would get off his high throne to come to us to bring us to Him, thus it would be Him changing us from the inside out, changing our mentality and changing the statement "God doesnt exist, for this life of mine is horrible"or"I dont need God, my life rocks" to "Thank you Lord I live to bring you glory, for these hardships in my life are really nothin and my joy is only found in You". Now this requires a faith. I know you dont wanna hear it but let me quote this packed statement from the Bible, it barely makes sense to me but I wanna quote it.

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good

to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined

to become conformed to the image of His Son,

that He might be the first-born among many brethren;

and whom He predistined, these He also called;

and whom He called, these He also justified;

and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 8: 28-30

So if I live a happy life, don't do bad things to people, treat everyone around me equally etc, but i don't bow down to the feet of "God", I am still going to an eternity of fire and torture? Yeah sounds like a jerk to me.

On the other hand someone can rape women, kids, murder people, and towards the end of their life accept Jesus Christ as their savior, and all is forgiven God just says "come on up, enjoy the party baby". Do people realize how stupid this fairy tale is?

lostfan132

Ok I get what you guys are saying. Seems like the question you dont have trouble with is whether God exists, but rather is He really all good? Thats a big question. One that everyone must ask including me.

This is how I personally understand this predicament, if you could bare with my reasoning which is not air tight. I believe that God created us solely to worship Him and by worshiping Him we glorify Him and by glorifying Him that will fill us with grace, completeness, wholeness, and an identity. If one doesn't do this then that would be proof that this person is cut off from this identity, therefore you have these people that ask how is God good or why should I be grateful for living, its all S*(& anyway? To get back to God so we can have this completeness and wholeness how do we do it? I believe that we can not do it, if you are one of those people that don't believe God is worthy of worship then there is nothing you can do nor anyone else can do to change your mind. I believe that the only person that can change your mentality is actually God Himself, where he would get off his high throne to come to us to bring us to Him, thus it would be Him changing us from the inside out, changing our mentality and changing the statement "God doesnt exist, for this life of mine is horrible"or"I dont need God, my life rocks" to "Thank you Lord I live to bring you glory, for these hardships in my life are really nothin and my joy is only found in You". Now this requires a faith. I know you dont wanna hear it but let me quote this packed statement from the Bible, it barely makes sense to me but I wanna quote it.

GameGuy642003

On a side-note, if it was God's intention that we be created to only worship and glorify Him, how does it make sense then that a large amount of people are cast down for eternity for petty infractions (that you'd think the Almighty Creator of the Universe would be willing to overlook) for his own glory? Basically how I'm seeing it is: He created us to worship/glorify Him, yet would rather let me burn eternally for lusting after my friend's car, essentially negating all his hard work done to fulfill his ultimate desire? If God created us solely to worship Him, he for some strange reason makes it incredibly difficult to do so and then ends up in the end not getting what he wishes. It's just not logical. "God works in mysterious ways" is right. And if you are right in your faith, unfortunately I will be the one to suffer for trying to understand these ways. So it goes I guess.

I wasn't referring to that film but now that you mention it it did get some good ideas out there. In fact i had stumbled across that film without having much knowledge of Bill Maher so I was pretty objective and it was one of the first things I watched that made me realise I no longer believed. That so called passionate actor was not much different then many of the believers I had encountered in my 32 years as a Christian. I would say it was a fair representation of the general beliefs I have encountered in my life.

junglist101

Honestly if you think its a good representation of Christianity you haven't actually studied it alot ( i mean this in all sincerity). In the movie he somehow comes to the conclusion that Christ was derived from pagan gods, an outragous idea and to my knowledge he didn't go to a single historian. There were plenty of people he could have attempted to interview, but instead he went after easy targets to get laughs.

Personally i think he should have at least tried to interview people like. NT Wright, William Lane Craig, Richard Swinburne, Alvin plantinga, Mike Lincona and a whole host of scholars whom are Christians and are the best and brightest that could answer him on questions. But instead he focuses on Creationists, evangelicals who mean well but don't seem to be equipped to answer. The Francis Collins interview is a joke as well. Instead of asking him about the relation between Science and religion he focuses on the historicity of the New testament and the gospels, when there are more qualified people to answer, though I think Francis Collins pointed out the obvious flaw in Mahers reasoning that Historical texts should be put under the standard of the microscope (science). That interview seemed highly edited. Bill Maher is not a good source if you want to learn about religion and or critique it. The good sources at the scholars and those who have spent their lives studying it.

Think about how many disputes would end if God simply showed himself.

Even on the accounts of seeing him in the Bible were always in solitude. Why did Moses have to go to the mountain top by himself to speak to God? God couldn't just speak to him right there? In front of everyone? Why he gotta be a secret?

Blue-Sky

I'm not discounting the possibility that God may exist (though at this point I'm more inclined not to), I'm simply unable to understand the rationale here. God gives us this gift of life, then without giving us solid proof demands of us obedience to him or we'll suffer the most horrific punishment forever. I don't know about you, but being created solely to worship the creator strikes me as exceedingly selfish and egotistical, don't you think? Are you a parent? If so, is that the reason you had children was to "worship" you? If not, would it be a central motivater? One thing that bothers me about Christianity is that, to me at least, it really gives a flawed view of what love is. Love is not in it for its own self-interest, nor is it conditional.

On a side-note, if it was God's intention that we be created to only worship and glorify Him, how does it make sense then that a large amount of people are cast down for eternity for petty infractions (that you'd think the Almighty Creator of the Universe would be willing to overlook) for his own glory? Basically how I'm seeing it is: He created us to worship/glorify Him, yet would rather let me burn eternally for lusting after my friend's car, essentially negating all his hard work done to fulfill his ultimate desire? If God created us solely to worship Him, he for some strange reason makes it incredibly difficult to do so and then ends up in the end not getting what he wishes. It's just not logical. "God works in mysterious ways" is right. And if you are right in your faith, unfortunately I will be the one to suffer for trying to understand these ways. So it goes I guess.

MirkoS77

You make some pretty good points. I cant answer some of them, these questions would take some serious thought and study to give a descriptive answer. But what I got to say is God made us to be perfect. The thing is the Bible said God existed with the Son and the Holy Spirit as the trinity before time began on this earth, this statement by itself is behind our comprehension, at least I can't wrap my mind around it. God was perfectly fine without us, the reason I think he created us then if He didn't need us was because the love he was pouring out of Himself to the other two and those two pouring love to the other two making a triangle of giving love was so much it overpowers out of Himself so he created us so He can have us experience the eternal joy that He Himself experiences about Himself. Now this sounds selfish but it is in fact the opposite of selfishness, it is really selflessness.

Now I could go on and try to explain more and of course that will lead to more questions so I'll make one more point. He created us then. Thus we have Adam and Eve in paradise (Eden). When God made our first parents he says it is Very Good, while all of His other creation are just Good. So we have this picture of two humans completely dependent on this God who does nothing but pour love on them and them on each other back to God. But then comes the temptation of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, here sin introduces itself for the first time disrupting this paradise and ultimetely having God take Adam and Eve out of Eden. The reason why I think God took them out of Eden because He knows that this sin has just corrupted paradise and to keep them there would corrupt it and turn it into Hell, I believe He was having mercy on them for taking them out of paradise. Well lol I just forgot the point I was trying to make, anyways I'm sure this will raise many more questions like why God allowed sin into Eden, or why he allows Satan to exist to tempt us. Anyways, to me the perfect example of love is Jesus Christ, and if you want to know what perfected love is look to Him. Thats all I got to say.

If I ever met a Christian who thought that God was a douchebag, I would deduce that he had read the Bible.

If I ever met a Christian who thought that God was a douchebag, I would deduce that he had Been misreading the Bible.

Barbariser

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

I'm not discounting the possibility that God may exist (though at this point I'm more inclined not to), I'm simply unable to understand the rationale here. God gives us this gift of life, then without giving us solid proof demands of us obedience to him or we'll suffer the most horrific punishment forever. I don't know about you, but being created solely to worship the creator strikes me as exceedingly selfish and egotistical, don't you think? Are you a parent? If so, is that the reason you had children was to "worship" you? If not, would it be a central motivater? One thing that bothers me about Christianity is that, to me at least, it really gives a flawed view of what love is. Love is not in it for its own self-interest, nor is it conditional.

On a side-note, if it was God's intention that we be created to only worship and glorify Him, how does it make sense then that a large amount of people are cast down for eternity for petty infractions (that you'd think the Almighty Creator of the Universe would be willing to overlook) for his own glory? Basically how I'm seeing it is: He created us to worship/glorify Him, yet would rather let me burn eternally for lusting after my friend's car, essentially negating all his hard work done to fulfill his ultimate desire? If God created us solely to worship Him, he for some strange reason makes it incredibly difficult to do so and then ends up in the end not getting what he wishes. It's just not logical. "God works in mysterious ways" is right. And if you are right in your faith, unfortunately I will be the one to suffer for trying to understand these ways. So it goes I guess.

GameGuy642003

You make some pretty good points. I cant answer some of them, these questions would take some serious thought and study to give a descriptive answer. But what I got to say is God made us to be perfect. The thing is the Bible said God existed with the Son and the Holy Spirit as the trinity before time began on this earth, this statement by itself is behind our comprehension, at least I can't wrap my mind around it. God was perfectly fine without us, the reason I think he created us then if He didn't need us was because the love he was pouring out of Himself to the other two and those two pouring love to the other two making a triangle of giving love was so much it overpowers out of Himself so he created us so He can have us experience the eternal joy that He Himself experiences about Himself. Now this sounds selfish but it is in fact the opposite of selfishness, it is really selflessness.

Now I could go on and try to explain more and of course that will lead to more questions so I'll make one more point. He created us then. Thus we have Adam and Eve in paradise (Eden). When God made our first parents he says it is Very Good, while all of His other creation are just Good. So we have this picture of two humans completely dependent on this God who does nothing but pour love on them and them on each other back to God. But then comes the temptation of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, here sin introduces itself for the first time disrupting this paradise and ultimetely having God take Adam and Eve out of Eden. The reason why I think God took them out of Eden because He knows that this sin has just corrupted paradise and to keep them there would corrupt it and turn it into Hell, I believe He was having mercy on them for taking them out of paradise. Well lol I just forgot the point I was trying to make, anyways I'm sure this will raise many more questions like why God allowed sin into Eden, or why he allows Satan to exist to tempt us. Anyways, to me the perfect example of love is Jesus Christ, and if you want to know what perfected love is look to Him. Thats all I got to say.

Ok, well I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Maybe someday it will make sense, but not now. Just can't feel it. But thanks. :)

[QUOTE="GameGuy642003"]

You make some pretty good points. I cant answer some of them, these questions would take some serious thought and study to give a descriptive answer. But what I got to say is God made us to be perfect. The thing is the Bible said God existed with the Son and the Holy Spirit as the trinity before time began on this earth, this statement by itself is behind our comprehension, at least I can't wrap my mind around it. God was perfectly fine without us, the reason I think he created us then if He didn't need us was because the love he was pouring out of Himself to the other two and those two pouring love to the other two making a triangle of giving love was so much it overpowers out of Himself so he created us so He can have us experience the eternal joy that He Himself experiences about Himself. Now this sounds selfish but it is in fact the opposite of selfishness, it is really selflessness.

Now I could go on and try to explain more and of course that will lead to more questions so I'll make one more point. He created us then. Thus we have Adam and Eve in paradise (Eden). When God made our first parents he says it is Very Good, while all of His other creation are just Good. So we have this picture of two humans completely dependent on this God who does nothing but pour love on them and them on each other back to God. But then comes the temptation of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, here sin introduces itself for the first time disrupting this paradise and ultimetely having God take Adam and Eve out of Eden. The reason why I think God took them out of Eden because He knows that this sin has just corrupted paradise and to keep them there would corrupt it and turn it into Hell, I believe He was having mercy on them for taking them out of paradise. Well lol I just forgot the point I was trying to make, anyways I'm sure this will raise many more questions like why God allowed sin into Eden, or why he allows Satan to exist to tempt us. Anyways, to me the perfect example of love is Jesus Christ, and if you want to know what perfected love is look to Him. Thats all I got to say.

MirkoS77

Ok, well I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Maybe someday it will make sense, but not now. Just can't feel it. But thanks. :)

Keep truckin brother, and so will I. Jesus aint going anywhere.

I don't believe God is a jerk, I think he is a divine spirtual being of pure love and mercy and power without physical idolry. However it is true that if you read the OT you will find things that will go against that concept, this is why you can't take the whole Bible literally.

It is full of contradictions, this is because the Bible was written by several different people and several different cultures over the course of several different time periods. And these are easy to misinterpret if you don't understand this.

Take for example the writings of Paul, some people think in a few of his writings he is demonizing or trying to keep women down. However this is not the case, his writings were directed to a group of pagans who were gaining influence and popularity in the region at that time, and these pagans were practicing witch craft and the women were treating the men in the group like dirt.

So Pauls writings were adressed to the men in those groups so they could leave and go back to God. Like I said, you have to study these things to truly understand them. You can't just read it and say "well the Bible says this",you have to truly understand the context of it first.

Yes, I do feel this way.

Like I said, you have to study these things to truly understand them. You can't just read it and say "well the Bible says this",you have to truly understand the context of it first.

ShadowMoses900

Well, He's a giant screw up. Floods the Earth for 40 days and nights to rinse the world of evil, and when it all dried up, guess what was still around? Evil! Whooops....JustPlainLucas

If that's the case, you'd know that there actually aren't any contradictions in the Bible. jshaas

Only verses that endorse the killing of homosexuals, non believers, worshippers of other gods, and non virgins on the wedding night.

Given that there are no contradictions, do you follow those verses? Or only cherry pick the best one PR wise?

the whole concept is a ****ing joke.

i'm god but i'm such a little ***** that i'm going to cry that you don't worship me and i'm going to damn you for eternity for defying my will.

y'know what, my dogs don't always follow my instructions and sometimes they piss me off because they do not have the ability to fathom what my wishes are and the importance of doing things a certain way but you know what the last thing i would ever do is?

toss them in a fire for the rest of infinity.

how the hell are we in a reality in which i am more understanding, loving and forgiving than god is.

your religious beliefs are a sham folks, grow the fvck up because your little fantasy that helps you deal with your inevitable death has caused more evil than anything else in the history of mankind.

hey everyone look at me nothing supernatural has ever happened in all of recorded history but the entire nature of reality is supernatural and when i die the bestest thing ever will happen to me and i will be reunited with all my loved ones!

jesus, how ****ing transparent do things have to be for you to figure out what is going on?

maybe it is not fair for me to take that away from you but seriously, you suck and the world is a worse place for you spreading your foolishness.

[QUOTE="jshaas"]If that's the case, you'd know that there actually aren't any contradictions in the Bible. DroidPhysX

Only verses that endorse the killing of homosexuals, non believers, worshippers of other gods, and non virgins on the wedding night.

Given that there are no contradictions, do you follow those verses? Or only cherry pick the best one PR wise?