What Is The Purpose Of Life? Poll.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Having fun is something that with age shouldn't be of any concern to you. Those are all good in all, but are you going to do anything for humanity?

Yes I said your life has no meaning... but I never called you a robot, now did I? ;)

super_mario_128

Are you going to do anything for humanity? Seriously though, are you? I don't know about myself, I feel I will do a lot of good in my life though. How does this relate to the topic at hand? Also, how is it that a Christian will contribute more to mankind by believing in God? You brought up the subject so please go on.

No you didn't call me a robot. Fair enogh.

I will try to do something with law, if you actually care :P. Hopefully prosecute those who do crimes against children whether it be physical, sexual, mental, w/e. The reason why I brought this up is... why WOULD you want to help humanity? He believes Jesus saved him from his own emptiness and as such, he wants to make sure others see "the light", so to speak.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="legend26"]

this may be difficult for you to comprehend but i dont need a god or a religion to make me feel special about my place in the universe.

im here, im alive, i love my life, i have my family and friends and i need nothing more. all i want is to live a long happy life and help people and have fun.

then when im an old guy sleeping on my deathbed i'll say "well i had a good run, i got to do all the things i wanted, i got to meet alot of nice people, i got to live".

then i will die and thats it.

Funky_Llama

However, if that is how you let your life unfold, you will be in store for a lot more after that last period...

you realize your talking to a person who dosnt beleive in hell?

and if i do go there well so be it, if was a good person in my life but still go to hell becouse i diddnt worship god, then god must be a verry egotistical.

also since i havnt done enything horribly wrong i will probably just go to limbo, and hanging out with socrates sounds pretty awesome ;)

If you were fired from your job for not following your bosses instructions and commands, you would probably be the first one to complain about that too.

God has revealed what He expects from us. He makes the rules. He could care less whether you think His rules are just.

All men are sinners and the penalty for sin is eternal death. God, in love, provided us a path to avoid this penalty. His commands are not burdensome. If you disobey, you will pay the price for your own sins. You may not like it but you cannot change His plan.

Yeah... it's like your boss sabotaging your work and firing you for it.

God did not cause Adam to sin. When Adam sinned, a sinful nature entered humanity. Are you maintaining that you are sinless?

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

[QUOTE="xaos"] Because, no matter what, it all ends ultimately. That is the central tenet of Buddhism, that the defining characteristic of life is suffering, and that the fact that death is inevitable is the root of that suffering. Pretty much all transcendent religions teach the same thing, including ones with no God. I'll say, though, if we were designed to "live in spiritual fellowship with God", it's pretty callous of Him to make that not be innate in our nature...mrcong

God choose to give men a free will so they could choose to love and honor Him. Forced love is not true love. He would have created us as automated beings that worship Him by design, it wouldn't be real. Man's purpose originally was to worship God, however, this changed when man exercised their free will and choose Satan.

So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Theokhoth

How many more what?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

He will be faithful in giving you the destination you choose. You do not have anything to complain about. He will be giving you what you choose.

blackregiment

You like to maintain that claim, but I am not deliberately choosing to go to hell. Saying that atheists choose to go to hell is like saying that a rape victim chooses to be raped by walking down a dark alleyway.

No, walking down that alley after they have been told that if they do it, they will be raped.

God has told us what He expects of us, the consequences for disobedience, and the path to avoid those consequences. If you reject them, you have no one toblame but yourself.

The point is, atheists do not believe that they have been genuinely told of the consequences of their actions. It's not like I think 'oh, well, I'll go to hell but I'll be atheist anyway'. Anyone who places credence in Christian warnings of hell is not an atheist, by definition.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="legend26"]

this may be difficult for you to comprehend but i dont need a god or a religion to make me feel special about my place in the universe.

im here, im alive, i love my life, i have my family and friends and i need nothing more. all i want is to live a long happy life and help people and have fun.

then when im an old guy sleeping on my deathbed i'll say "well i had a good run, i got to do all the things i wanted, i got to meet alot of nice people, i got to live".

then i will die and thats it.

blackregiment

However, if that is how you let your life unfold, you will be in store for a lot more after that last period...

you realize your talking to a person who dosnt beleive in hell?

and if i do go there well so be it, if was a good person in my life but still go to hell becouse i diddnt worship god, then god must be a verry egotistical.

also since i havnt done enything horribly wrong i will probably just go to limbo, and hanging out with socrates sounds pretty awesome ;)

If you were fired from your job for not following your bosses instructions and commands, you would probably be the first one to complain about that too.

God has revealed what He expects from us. He makes the rules. He could care less whether you think His rules are just.

All men are sinners and the penalty for sin is eternal death. God, in love, provided us a path to avoid this penalty. His commands are not burdensome. If you disobey, you will pay the price for your own sins. You may not like it but you cannot change His plan.

Yeah... it's like your boss sabotaging your work and firing you for it.

God did not cause Adam to sin. When Adam sinned, a sinful nature entered humanity. Are you maintaining that you are sinless?

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="legend26"]

this may be difficult for you to comprehend but i dont need a god or a religion to make me feel special about my place in the universe.

im here, im alive, i love my life, i have my family and friends and i need nothing more. all i want is to live a long happy life and help people and have fun.

then when im an old guy sleeping on my deathbed i'll say "well i had a good run, i got to do all the things i wanted, i got to meet alot of nice people, i got to live".

then i will die and thats it.

blackregiment

However, if that is how you let your life unfold, you will be in store for a lot more after that last period...

you realize your talking to a person who dosnt beleive in hell?

and if i do go there well so be it, if was a good person in my life but still go to hell becouse i diddnt worship god, then god must be a verry egotistical.

also since i havnt done enything horribly wrong i will probably just go to limbo, and hanging out with socrates sounds pretty awesome ;)

If you were fired from your job for not following your bosses instructions and commands, you would probably be the first one to complain about that too.

God has revealed what He expects from us. He makes the rules. He could care less whether you think His rules are just.

All men are sinners and the penalty for sin is eternal death. God, in love, provided us a path to avoid this penalty. His commands are not burdensome. If you disobey, you will pay the price for your own sins. You may not like it but you cannot change His plan.

Yeah... it's like your boss sabotaging your work and firing you for it.

God did not cause Adam to sin. When Adam sinned, a sinful nature entered humanity. Are you maintaining that you are sinless?

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

But God created Adam such that he would be capable of sin.

So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Theokhoth

You know you are quite the theologian. You should help out fellow brothers in Christ, regardless of personal feelings about them. ;)

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?blackregiment

How many more what?

I think he means Crushmaster's polls.

[QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

Heh... so why is your happiness so much better than mine, then? :lol:

legend26

Because your happiness is the product of worldly pursuits and accomplishments. Like all things in the world, they will eventually decay and be forgotten, and your joy will not last. As I said earlier, only true happiness comes through fellowship with Christ. This is how humans were designed, and how things worked until the fall.

Also, your sig comments on this matter. The Christian looks at the world and is in awe at God's might, and thus gives Him glory. The athiest views the same thing as a miniscule accident in the history of the universe that holds no meaning or purpose.

thats verry generalizing

i dont look at the earth that way, i look at it with awe to, the natural world that is

when it looked like this

then mankind came and turned it into a giant shopping mall...

A bit of a stretch. Are you a mother Ghia worshipper?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?blackregiment

How many more what?

These evangelism topics. How many do you have left? It was going to 14 or something like that, right?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?battlefront23

You know you are quite the theologan. You should help out fellow brothers in Christ, regardless of personal feelings about them. ;)

I don't think that remarking on the frequency of these polls has anything to do with that. :|

I will try to do something with law, if you actually care :P. Hopefully prosecute those who do crimes against children whether it be physical, sexual, mental, w/e. The reason why I brought this up is... why WOULD you want to help humanity? He believes Jesus saved him from his own emptiness and as such, he wants to make sure others see "the light", so to speak.

battlefront23

Heh, at least you tried to do make the conversation a little less offensive. :P I was thinking of studying law aswell, but accountancy also came to mi...HIJACKING TOPIC NOT GUD. :x
Why would I want to help humanity? That reminds me of a question raised in Beyond This Horizon by R. A. Heinlein; if I remembered the answer I'd be lazy and give you that. :P I'm not really certain of an answer to that question quite yet; I'll just say I'd rather be of use to humankind than to be useless or an opposing force, if you will... So are you telling me that trying to convert people to your religion is what fulfils your life? If I've got it wrong then tell me, because I think that's pretty empty...

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?battlefront23

You know you are quite the theologian. You should help out fellow brothers in Christ, regardless of personal feelings about them. ;)

You seem to be handling yourselves just fine without me. I have a migraine after dealing with politics and algebra all day anyway.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="legend26"]

this may be difficult for you to comprehend but i dont need a god or a religion to make me feel special about my place in the universe.

im here, im alive, i love my life, i have my family and friends and i need nothing more. all i want is to live a long happy life and help people and have fun.

then when im an old guy sleeping on my deathbed i'll say "well i had a good run, i got to do all the things i wanted, i got to meet alot of nice people, i got to live".

then i will die and thats it.

Funky_Llama

However, if that is how you let your life unfold, you will be in store for a lot more after that last period...

you realize your talking to a person who dosnt beleive in hell?

and if i do go there well so be it, if was a good person in my life but still go to hell becouse i diddnt worship god, then god must be a verry egotistical.

also since i havnt done enything horribly wrong i will probably just go to limbo, and hanging out with socrates sounds pretty awesome ;)

If you were fired from your job for not following your bosses instructions and commands, you would probably be the first one to complain about that too.

God has revealed what He expects from us. He makes the rules. He could care less whether you think His rules are just.

All men are sinners and the penalty for sin is eternal death. God, in love, provided us a path to avoid this penalty. His commands are not burdensome. If you disobey, you will pay the price for your own sins. You may not like it but you cannot change His plan.

Yeah... it's like your boss sabotaging your work and firing you for it.

God did not cause Adam to sin. When Adam sinned, a sinful nature entered humanity. Are you maintaining that you are sinless?

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

But God created Adam such that he would be capable of sin.

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Funky_Llama

You know you are quite the theologan. You should help out fellow brothers in Christ, regardless of personal feelings about them. ;)

I don't think that remarking on the frequency of these polls has anything to do with that. :|

He knows what I mean. But I understand your concern.

[QUOTE="legend26"][QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

Heh... so why is your happiness so much better than mine, then? :lol:

blackregiment

Because your happiness is the product of worldly pursuits and accomplishments. Like all things in the world, they will eventually decay and be forgotten, and your joy will not last. As I said earlier, only true happiness comes through fellowship with Christ. This is how humans were designed, and how things worked until the fall.

Also, your sig comments on this matter. The Christian looks at the world and is in awe at God's might, and thus gives Him glory. The athiest views the same thing as a miniscule accident in the history of the universe that holds no meaning or purpose.

thats verry generalizing

i dont look at the earth that way, i look at it with awe to, the natural world that is

when it looked like this

then mankind came and turned it into a giant shopping mall...

A bit of a stretch. Are you a mother Ghia worshipper?

*sigh* Religion is not necessary to look at the world with awe. That's his point.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Theokhoth

How many more what?

These evangelism topics. How many do you have left? It was going to 14 or something like that, right?

Till the Lord comes or GS shuts down.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Theokhoth

How many more what?

These evangelism topics. How many do you have left? It was going to 14 or something like that, right?

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

blackregiment

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Crushmaster

How many more what?

These evangelism topics. How many do you have left? It was going to 14 or something like that, right?

Tell me of your plans for the future! :P

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?blackregiment

How many more what?

These evangelism topics. How many do you have left? It was going to 14 or something like that, right?

Till the Lord comes or GS shuts down.

Methinks the latter is perhaps more likely.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I will try to do something with law, if you actually care :P. Hopefully prosecute those who do crimes against children whether it be physical, sexual, mental, w/e. The reason why I brought this up is... why WOULD you want to help humanity? He believes Jesus saved him from his own emptiness and as such, he wants to make sure others see "the light", so to speak.

super_mario_128

Heh, at least you tried to do make the conversation a little less offensive. :P I was thinking of studying law aswell, but accountancy also came to mi...HIJACKING TOPIC NOT GUD. :x
Why would I want to help humanity? That reminds me of a question raised in Beyond This Horizon by R. A. Heinlein; if I remembered the answer I'd be lazy and give you that. :P I'm not really certain of an answer to that question quite yet; I'll just say I'd rather be of use to humankind than to be useless or an opposing force, if you will... So are you telling me that trying to convert people to your religion is what fulfils your life? If I've got it wrong then tell me, because I think that's pretty empty...

That is one objective, yes. But that is not my only goal. Either way I can only plant the seed of doubt, God has to work on your heart. And justice... that is one other primary objective of my life. To bring justice, specifically in ways where there is less red tape, if you catch my drift... To bring TRUE justice. I believe that and successfully planting the seed of doubt in someone's heart are my two personal goals, althought the second one should apply to all Christians.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

Funky_Llama

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God has free will? But He can't sin. . . .

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]So how many more of these do you guys have left, anyway?Funky_Llama

How many more what?

These evangelism topics. How many do you have left? It was going to 14 or something like that, right?

Tell me of your plans for the future! :P

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

Funky_Llama

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

A bit of a stretch. Are you a mother Ghia worshipper?

blackregiment

*sigh* Religion is not necessary to look at the world with awe. That's his point.

Funky_Llama

double sigh.

that is not what I meant. I meant that I felt that he was exaggerating a bit about the destruction of the planet.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

battlefront23

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

A bit of a stretch. Are you a mother Ghia worshipper?

blackregiment

*sigh* Religion is not necessary to look at the world with awe. That's his point.

Funky_Llama

double sigh.

that is not what I meant. I meant that I felt that he was exaggerating a bit about the destruction of the planet.

Oh.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

battlefront23

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

1. Oops, looks like you've identified God as not being able to do something, and therefore not omnipotent, and therefore no longer meeting the definition of God. Careless. ;)

2. He could make it so it wasn't in our natures either.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

xaos

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

God doesn't force His will on us. We were made perfect, but we can still be tempted. Even Jesus was tempted. And Adam screwed up and that is what got us to where we are now.

There is no external meaning or purpose to life. Whatever you feel is important, is important. You create your own illusion of purpose.xXBuffJeffXx

You'll see them as we post them.Crushmaster

You tease! :cry:

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

Funky_Llama

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

1. Oops, looks like you've identified God as not being able to do something, and therefore not omnipotent, and therefore no longer meeting the definition of God. Careless. ;)

2. He could make it so it wasn't in our natures either.

1. He can't sin; it is not in his nature. It's like a straight person fantasizing about their same gender... they just can't do it.

2. Which would throw love out of the picture. ;)

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

Funky_Llama

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

You are making the mistake of trying to equate the free will of the creation with the free will of the Creator. We are finite, He is infinite. He is holy. We are sinners. He is perfect, we are imperfect. He cannot sin and is a spirit and therefore not subject to the desires of the flesh as we are.

He did use His free will to create a path of fellowship and salvation for His fallen creation but you don't want it. He could have just as easily destroyed His entire creation.

I guess my purpose in life is to create a positive impact on people's lives. In the meantime, it's becoming successful and raising a family to carry on my family name. In reality no one really knows the purpose of life. We can only guess.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

battlefront23

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

1. Oops, looks like you've identified God as not being able to do something, and therefore not omnipotent, and therefore no longer meeting the definition of God. Careless. ;)

2. He could make it so it wasn't in our natures either.

1. He can't sin; it is not in his nature. It's like a straight person fantasising about their same gender... The just can't do it.

2. Which would throw love out of the picture. ;)

1. Then, like I said, he's not omnipotent, and therefore no longer meets the definition of God.

2. And therefore God does not love us, because it is not in his nature. ;)

Good night all. :D

[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"]There is no external meaning or purpose to life. Whatever you feel is important, is important. You create your own illusion of purpose.TheFlush

You are thinking temporally and confusing temporal purpose with eternal purpose.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

blackregiment

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

You are making the mistake of trying to equate the free will of the creation with the free will of the Creator. We are finite, He is infinite. He is holy. We are sinners. He is perfect, we are imperfect. He cannot sin and is a spirit and therefore not subject to the desires of the flesh as we are.

He did use His free will to create a path of fellowship and salvation for His fallen creation but you don't want it. He could have just as easily destroyed His entire creation.

This whole comment is irrelevant. :|

No, I mean that religion is required for 'true' happiness, and there is such a thing as 'true' happiness as a superlative to normal happiness.

Funky_Llama

I already explained it to you. Humanist happiness comes in things that decay and disappear-riches, power, popularity, etc. Since these things eventually break down, so does the happiness that is brought with it. According to athiestic beliefs, all there is the natural and physical, both of which are subject to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. As a result, to a naturalist, all happiness must break down, making it temporal.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

Funky_Llama

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

God cannot sin; it is not in His nature.

1. Oops, looks like you've identified God as not being able to do something, and therefore not omnipotent, and therefore no longer meeting the definition of God. Careless. ;)

2. He could make it so it wasn't in our natures either.

1. He can't sin; it is not in his nature. It's like a straight person fantasising about their same gender... The just can't do it.

2. Which would throw love out of the picture. ;)

1. Then, like I said, he's not omnipotent, and therefore no longer meets the definition of God.

2. And therefore God does not love us, because it is not in his nature. ;)

Good night all. :D

Incorrect logic.

Good night and God bless

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

A bit of a stretch. Are you a mother Ghia worshipper?

blackregiment

*sigh* Religion is not necessary to look at the world with awe. That's his point.

Funky_Llama

double sigh.

that is not what I meant. I meant that I felt that he was exaggerating a bit about the destruction of the planet.

exaggerating?

That is one objective, yes. But that is not my only goal. Either way I can only plant the seed of doubt, God has to work on your heart. And justice... that is one other primary objective of my life. To bring justice, specifically in ways where there is less red tape, if you catch my drift... To bring TRUE justice. I believe that and successfully planting the seed of doubt in someone's heart are my two personal goals, althought the second one should apply to all Christians.

battlefront23

Well when you bring those two point to the table - Justice and converting ('planting the seed of doubt', if you like) - I don't see how believing that reproduction is the sole purpose of life effectively renders my life with no meaning... Reproduction, to me, isn't just having sex - if I wanted to experience that feeling then I'd masturbate to be quite frank - but about bringing up your child to the best of your ability, educate him, discipline him (him? Or her, I mean :P) and let them live their own life to give more continuity to civilisation; heck, you never know, he may be the genius who discovers a cure to cancer or the secret behind interstellar travel/rejuvanation. :P (As a side note, I don't live my life on the hope that a son or daughter I might have will be a genius who contributes to mankind in the ways I suggested, just fyi... :P.)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Without free will and the ability to choose or reject God, love would not be of our own choice.

blackregiment

God has free will to, but he doesn't sin; thus, free will does not necessitate sin. God could have created humanity so that we had free will, but it was simply not within our nature to do evil.

You are making the mistake of trying to equate the free will of the creation with the free will of the Creator. We are finite, He is infinite. He is holy. We are sinners. He is perfect, we are imperfect. He cannot sin and is a spirit and therefore not subject to the desires of the flesh as we are.

He did use His free will to create a path of fellowship and salvation for His fallen creation but you don't want it. He could have just as easily destroyed His entire creation.