What's wrong with taxing the rich to feed the poor?

Or instead of money to the poor, money into free education and free healthcare

either way, what's so wrong about that?

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society.

On a somewhat similar note, here is an interesting explanation of why you shouldn't gang up on the rich to help the poor:

--------------------------------------------------------------

University of Georgia

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. FragStains

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. FragStains

Yeah, I'm sure all those kids whose parents can't even afford a pair of socks for them should go get a job. Maybe they could apply for a post as a decoy for Chris Hansen.

You know what some of the 'self-reliant' poor people do? Steal, kill and sell their bodies for their family. Guess the rich simply can't pass on another slice of their pudding for breakfast.

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. Truth_Seekr

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

And, I haven't seen one extra penny taken from my paycheck for taxes since this occured.

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. FragStains

Or instead of money to the poor, money into free education and free healthcare

either way, what's so wrong about that?

Truth_Seekr

[QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"]

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. FragStains

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

And, I haven't seen one extra penny taken from my paycheck for taxes since this occured.

And it's not poor peoples fault that these banks who offered the loans basically told these people that they CAN infact pay it off when they actually couldn't.

oh please..dont be giving us that self reliance BS, the system is designed to opress the poor. the rich should be heavily taxed but unfortunatly the rich are also in control so people will continue to suffer in poverty.x_Martyr_x

I guess I should just be lazy and expect everything to be provided to me.

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. Truth_Seekr

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

The Subprime mortgage crises was not caused by "The rich" It was caused by government regulation.

[QUOTE="FragStains"][QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"]

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. Ilived

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

And, I haven't seen one extra penny taken from my paycheck for taxes since this occured.

And it's not poor peoples fault that these banks who offered the loans basically told these people that they CAN infact pay it off when they actually couldn't.

[QUOTE="FragStains"][QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"]

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. Ilived

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

And, I haven't seen one extra penny taken from my paycheck for taxes since this occured.

And it's not poor peoples fault that these banks who offered the loans basically told these people that they CAN infact pay it off when they actually couldn't.

Actually it is. Whenever I got a loan I would take the % rates and do the figures. I would ask what the variable is, and then ask if there is a slightly higher than the current lower rate to keep it fixed. That way i knew i could afford it.

It is just like getting the budget on utilities. You can take the low cost for the summer on gas but come winter you might get blown away. So I always budget with the companies because it allows me to handle it easier. Someone can afford something and have it double for a month and get so far behind that they fail.

Those poor people should have looked at the numbers.

[QUOTE="Ilived"][QUOTE="FragStains"][QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"]

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. FragStains

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

And, I haven't seen one extra penny taken from my paycheck for taxes since this occured.

And it's not poor peoples fault that these banks who offered the loans basically told these people that they CAN infact pay it off when they actually couldn't.

When banks came out with all these 'too good to be true' offers and basically pressured people into buying a home...you can't analyze these things. Some were irresponsible but banks played a huge role with this problem. These people were desperate to buy a house, they wanted to buy a house and when they were told that they can buy a house then of course they would take the offer. A little research...my ass.

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society.

FragStains

if the economic crisis has taught us anything it's that rich execs and ceo's have no concern about personal responsibility or the society.

[QUOTE="FragStains"]

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society.

Ontain

if the economic crisis has taught us anything it's that rich execs and ceo's have no concern about personal responsibility or the society.

[QUOTE="FragStains"]I know you don't want to hear this, but maybe these people should've done a little research on how mortgages (of all kinds work) and the risks thereof.

Ilived

When banks came out with all these 'too good to be true' offers and basically pressured people into buying a home...you can't analyze these things. Some were irresponsible but banks played a huge role with this problem. These people were desperate to buy a house, they wanted to buy a house and when they were told that they can buy a house then of course they would take the offer. A little research...my ass.

Some common sense should've been used. Not everyone is entitled to a house.

How about forcing them to get a job and earn their own money?

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="FragStains"]

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society.

FragStains

if the economic crisis has taught us anything it's that rich execs and ceo's have no concern about personal responsibility or the society.

Success at the top comes more from who you know than what you know. as for personal responsibility, that's hard to sell when they can drive a company into the ground and still walk away with more than any of us can make in a life time. Sorry but that's what greed is. I don't see many taking out all their own savings and personal assest to save their companies like the small business owner does.

its thier fault they are poor. they should have worked harder. :roll:

[QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"]

[QUOTE="FragStains"]You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society. FragStains

Right. That's the usual argument I hear, but given what's gone down in the past few months - to those that say it wouldn't be fair to pay for someone elses expense, I must ask.....

How fair do you see it that You now have to pay the $850 Billion dollar bailout for something you didn't do? Taking away personal responsibility from the rich.

And, I haven't seen one extra penny taken from my paycheck for taxes since this occured.

I'd say it's a mixture of both faults, but more the banks.

The people looking for a good deal got suckered in by whatever proposal the banks had to offer thinking they'd come out ahead, despite being poor and/or low in assets, they saw the oppurtunity and got caught up in the dream. As they say, "If it's to good to be true, it probably isn't". Right.

But then the banks are faults for ultimately accepting loan contracts from people who had no real assets to back anything up. They get SSNs - previous & current bank records - credit histories and a plethora of information about anyone wanting to do business with them that should be taken into account on the banks behalf before signing any kind of acceptance. So it's not like the banks got suckered in by the people looking for loans, they screwed themselves over by mismanaging the "money" they handle. IMO, it's the banks fault in the end.

As far as the tax, I suppose it would come under Federal Tax, but rest assured, we're paying that bailout for generations to come.

When I made 28 k a year I was in a certain tax bracket. I got a different job and made over 40 k a year. The amount of taxes I had to pay increased. That's how it goes, so if I did something to make 250 k a year it would not shock me to learn I have to pay more taxes.

Lots of things come from taxes other than feeding poor people which there is zero wrong with. I kind of like having paved roads and rescue squads available if I need them, or a bus if I need to catch one etc.

But what I truely don't get is middle class people arguing to me and others based on some fantasy they have of becoming rich. Crying about how unfair it is for a billionaire to be taxed so much. On the notion that if someday I work hard and become rich (which in most cases you won't,there's a reason that percentage is so small not everyone will acheive that type of success sorry) then I will be taxed and they'll give it to someone else that didn't work as hard as I did. Meanwhile most rich people are rich because there parents were rich and there parents parents were rich. What did Paris Hilton do to earn all of that money, zero. It's a cycle just like the cycle poor people are born into and would have to do something extraordinary to break out of. Trust me Donald Trump is ok, so is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and Oprah Winfrey. Stop worrying about how they are going to eat, if you make it to that level than I'm certain you will not miss a meal either.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="FragStains"]

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society.

FragStains

if the economic crisis has taught us anything it's that rich execs and ceo's have no concern about personal responsibility or the society.

Or, as has happened many times before, they were born into that position.

If I'm making 6 figures, I could care less about a tax increase just for me. I really doubt that taxes would bring me down to something like 50k a year also.

If Im making that type of money, then I dont mind giving some away to help better the country for the future generations, especially for my family.

You use force to take value from someone who created it and give it to someone who didin't.Frattracide

Depends on what you tax; not if you tax private profits. But it's not like I'd expect a libertarian to understand the difference.

Or instead of money to the poor, money into free education and free healthcare

either way, what's so wrong about that?

Truth_Seekr

Nothing.

If I'm making 6 figures, I could care less about a tax increase just for me. I really doubt that taxes would bring me down to something like 50k a year also.

If Im making that type of money, then I dont mind giving some away to help better the country for the future generations, especially for my family.

RedMasterDX

That's all hypothetical; I'm willing to bet that people in that situation are tighter with their wallets than we'd be lead to think.

It's amazing how many people are so willing to pay more taxes all of a sudden.FragStains

And whats scarier is that people don't realize that by doing so, your giving up liberty and giving more power to an already out of control Federal Government.

Welfare sucks (outside of short term unemplyment and disabilaty) If you are too lazy to get off your ass and get a freaking job I dont think that you should have the full rights of a citizen because you do not contribute to society. That said I do think that everyone should have the right to healthcare and education (including college) so I am ok for taxes for those things.Guybrush_3

Obviously someone who knows nothing about how the system works. If you for some reason fall on hard times and need "assistance" it's not set up to where you can work pay the bills you can and then when you're broke and can't buy food that they will assist you. It's pretty much completely reliant on the system or do without. You can't keep your 9 dollar and hour job and get help with food, they will cut you off.

This is not to say there isn't loop holes and abuse but the reason it exist is because there needs to be reform. You can't go around calling people lazy unless you personally have experienced what happens or what it's like sir.

[QUOTE="FragStains"]It's amazing how many people are so willing to pay more taxes all of a sudden.InterpolWilco

And whats scarier is that people don't realize that by doing so, your giving up liberty and giving more power to an already out of control Federal Government.

Liberty has nothing to do with money. The pursuit of happiness is all you're promised as a citizen.

I'm going to repost this.. fragstains posted it first.

Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]Welfare sucks (outside of short term unemplyment and disabilaty) If you are too lazy to get off your ass and get a freaking job I dont think that you should have the full rights of a citizen because you do not contribute to society. That said I do think that everyone should have the right to healthcare and education (including college) so I am ok for taxes for those things.mosdef_basic

Obviously someone who knows nothing about how the system works. If you for some reason fall on hard times and need "assistance" it's not set up to where you can work pay the bills you can and then when you're broke and can't buy food that they will assist you. It's pretty much completely reliant on the system or do without. You can't keep your 9 dollar and hour job and get help with food, they will cut you off.

This is not to say there isn't loop holes and abuse but the reason it exist is because there needs to be reform. You can't go around calling people lazy unless you personally have experienced what happens or what it's like sir.

I see what you are saying and i agree, sort of. Alot of it is people who settle for a GED or a low income job because they think they have hit such hard times they have no other options. Been their, seen that, done that and i think lazy is a pretty damn good description. There is always a way out.

I'm going to repost this.. fragstains posted it first.

Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

The_Mac_Daddy

And I'm going to quote it. Maybe if it's posted enough times people will finally read it. But hey we are all LAZY as hell anyway. Read this people before you try and make any points, seriously.

Poverty is not an economic condition, its a mental condition. Or, as my daddy used to say, Poor people have Poor ways.

The govt taking my money to support the poor/needy in this country is personally insulting to me. To me, it is the govt saying to me "you can't be trusted to be a good person and use your energy, intelligence and good fortune to help out the poor in your community, so we, the govt, will take your money and make sure it goes to help the poor." Well, fine. The govt takes my money and wastes more than half of it before it ever gets to anyone that needs help. Then they don't care who lines up at the free money window. Hell, the more the better as far as the govt workers think. Job security, don't ya know.

Despite being heavily taxed, I still support local charities. The Salvation Army does more good with my donation dollar than the govt could ever dream of. Plus they are personally involved with the people they help so they can make sure the help given matches the need. I also support the Disabled American Veterans. After all, who do we owe more to than the people that have suffered injury in defense of our freedom.

Americans have proven that they are the most generous people ever. I don't have the exact figures, but I believe that Americans' personal giving to charity is double that of any other developed country. If you eliminated govt subsidies to the poor and lowered taxes proportionally, people would step up in their individual communities to help the poor.

[QUOTE="mosdef_basic"]

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]Welfare sucks (outside of short term unemplyment and disabilaty) If you are too lazy to get off your ass and get a freaking job I dont think that you should have the full rights of a citizen because you do not contribute to society. That said I do think that everyone should have the right to healthcare and education (including college) so I am ok for taxes for those things.WSP87

Obviously someone who knows nothing about how the system works. If you for some reason fall on hard times and need "assistance" it's not set up to where you can work pay the bills you can and then when you're broke and can't buy food that they will assist you. It's pretty much completely reliant on the system or do without. You can't keep your 9 dollar and hour job and get help with food, they will cut you off.

This is not to say there isn't loop holes and abuse but the reason it exist is because there needs to be reform. You can't go around calling people lazy unless you personally have experienced what happens or what it's like sir.

I see what you are saying and i agree, sort of. Alot of it is people who settle for a GED or a low income job because they think they have hit such hard times they have no other options. Been their, seen that, done that and i think lazy is a pretty damn good description. There is always a way out.

You can't be lazy and get a GED. Lazy is what you do if you drop out of school and don't bother to finish at all. To go back to school after you make a bad decision to leave in the first place and for some people that's well into their 30's and 40's takes courage and determination, I wouldn' at all call that lazy.

You are removing self-reliance and personal responsibility from society.

On a somewhat similar note, here is an interesting explanation of why you shouldn't gang up on the rich to help the poor:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

FragStains

wow for a proffessor his logic is quite flawed. after the price dropped if they were to do it the exact same way as they did before they would still pay exactly the same percentage as they did when it was $100. (the tenth guy pays 59% the ninth guy pays 18% and so on) and people who dont pay taxes dont get tax returns.

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (0% savings).
The sixth now paid $2.4 instead of $3 (20%savings).
The seventh now pay $6.4 instead of $7 (20%savings).
The eighth now paid $9.6 instead of $12 (20% savings).
The ninth now paid $14.4 instead of $18 (20% savings).
The tenth now paid $47.2 instead of $59 (20% savings).

Poverty is not an economic condition, its a mental condition. Or, as my daddy used to say, Poor people have Poor ways.

The govt taking my money to support the poor/needy in this country is personally insulting to me. To me, it is the govt saying to me "you can't be trusted to be a good person and use your energy, intelligence and good fortune to help out the poor in your community, so we, the govt, will take your money and make sure it goes to help the poor." Well, fine. The govt takes my money and wastes more than half of it before it ever gets to anyone that needs help. Then they don't care who lines up at the free money window. Hell, the more the better as far as the govt workers think. Job security, don't ya know.

Despite being heavily taxed, I still support local charities. The Salvation Army does more good with my donation dollar than the govt could ever dream of. Plus they are personally involved with the people they help so they can make sure the help given matches the need. I also support the Disabled American Veterans. After all, who do we owe more to than the people that have suffered injury in defense of our freedom.

Americans have proven that they are the most generous people ever. I don't have the exact figures, but I believe that Americans' personal giving to charity is double that of any other developed country. If you eliminated govt subsidies to the poor and lowered taxes proportionally, people would step up in their individual communities to help the poor.

collegeboy64

2 points

1 you get tax breaks for supporting charity so I don't know how transparent everyone's reasons are but whatever.

2 You see how charitable these CEO's have been time and again. So no I don't trust them to do the right thing by their fellow man.

Because the rich people worked damn hard to make their money (in most cases) and don't want it taken away from them. It's like being penalized for doing well.

Well Billy, I see you got an A, but I'm going to knock it down to a B and give that letter grade difference to Johnny who got an F, so now he gets a D!

That aint fair and isn't right.

Because the rich people worked damn hard to make their money (in most cases) and don't want it taken away from them. It's like being penalized for doing well.

Well Billy, I see you got an A, but I'm going to knock it down to a B and give that letter grade difference to Johnny who got an F, so now he gets a D!

That aint fair and isn't right.

hokies1313

good point

Maybe we should try to eliminate poverty and push the needy out of their current state of affairs instead of creating a welfare state.

Throwing money at a problem has never work before; don't expect it to start working now.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]Welfare sucks (outside of short term unemplyment and disabilaty) If you are too lazy to get off your ass and get a freaking job I dont think that you should have the full rights of a citizen because you do not contribute to society. That said I do think that everyone should have the right to healthcare and education (including college) so I am ok for taxes for those things.mosdef_basic

Obviously someone who knows nothing about how the system works. If you for some reason fall on hard times and need "assistance" it's not set up to where you can work pay the bills you can and then when you're broke and can't buy food that they will assist you. It's pretty much completely reliant on the system or do without. You can't keep your 9 dollar and hour job and get help with food, they will cut you off.

This is not to say there isn't loop holes and abuse but the reason it exist is because there needs to be reform. You can't go around calling people lazy unless you personally have experienced what happens or what it's like sir.

Lol, you have it wrong. I know how the current system works and I HATE it, it needs to be drastically changed. I also hate that our minimum wage is so low that you have to work about 70 hours just to get the bare essnetials. I want people to have a living wage (as in you should be able to make enough for the minimum living expenses if you work 50 hours a week)

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

I'm going to repost this.. fragstains posted it first.

Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

WSP87

And I'm going to quote it. Maybe if it's posted enough times people will finally read it. But hey we are all LAZY as hell anyway. Read this people before you try and make any points, seriously.

read my response.