Why are some people so rich and some people so poor?

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RushKing

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#151 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

Have there been any large civilizations that didnot feature private property?

Palantas
Not that we know of, but that doesn't make it impossible. Think of The Fed from Star Trek, I believe it would be possible if we had the technology and resources. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqW0YaN2ho
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#152 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Well historically capitalism hasn't been an isolated phenomenon that happens just in your country. Historically nations have used the resources of places like Africa to develop the way they are now and to support capitalism. So I'm focusing on what actually happened and not on the capitalist theory which is basically utopic.kuraimen

You can focus on whatever you want. That doesn't change the fact that: A) I never mentioned any country other than the United States, and B) what I said wasn't incorrect.

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#153 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

Have there been any large civilizations that didnot feature private property?

Palantas
The idea of private property available to everyone is a relatively new concept in human history. And even when nobility owned property it could be seized at any time by a king, emperor, etc. The idea that the government can't seize your property is also a new concept in human history.
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#154 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Well historically capitalism hasn't been an isolated phenomenon that happens just in your country. Historically nations have used the resources of places like Africa to develop the way they are now and to support capitalism. So I'm focusing on what actually happened and not on the capitalist theory which is basically utopic.airshocker

You can focus on whatever you want. That doesn't change the fact that: A) I never mentioned any country other than the United States, and B) what I said wasn't incorrect.

So if I understand correctly when you say that capitalism makes everyone better off. By "everyone" you mean US citizens?
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#155 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

Have there been any large civilizations that didnot feature private property?

KC_Hokie

The idea of private property available to everyone is a relatively new concept in human history. And even when nobility owned property it could be seized at any time by a king, emperor, etc. The idea that the government can't seize your property is also a new concept in human history.

True, it started with the agricultural revolution. It's interesting to read about how private property started in barbarian tribes for example, it wasn't really private as in individually private more like of your group. In early medieval cities land and all services were communitarian too, even guilds gave services to the community not only for their benefit. That's before there was the figure of a king and cities became too large. Those were remnants of the early social structures.

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#156 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

A lot depends on which country you were born in and what opportunities exist in your place of residence.

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#157 ZombieKiller7
Member since 2011 • 6463 Posts

Different abilities.

Some ppl are more productive, smarter, healthier, more capable, etc.

Some folks are sickly and can't work.

Some folks are good looking, and get all the jobs they want, other folks got hit by the ugly stick and nobody wants to hire them.

Some folks can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. Other people can multi-task complex deals.

Ppl are not equal.

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#158 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

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#159 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

wis3boi
Assuming we will always need income.
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#160 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts
[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

RushKing
Assuming we will always need income.

uhm. Yes?
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#161 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

wis3boi
I agree. It's never happened and never will. Even under communism they had classes.
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#162 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts
The most hilarious thing is that people think it's a matter of hard work.
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#163 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

themajormayor
Assuming we will always need income.

uhm. Yes?

In a capitalist system.
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#164 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
The most hilarious thing is that people think it's a matter of hard work.jointed
If you have valuable skills or knowledge it sure is.
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#165 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts
[QUOTE="jointed"]The most hilarious thing is that people think it's a matter of hard work.KC_Hokie
If you have valuable skills or knowledge it sure is.

No-one is born with valuable skills or knowledge, they have to acquire them.
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#166 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="jointed"]The most hilarious thing is that people think it's a matter of hard work.jointed
If you have valuable skills or knowledge it sure is.

No-one is born with valuable skills or knowledge, they have to acquire them.

Some people are born with them
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#167 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="jointed"]The most hilarious thing is that people think it's a matter of hard work.jointed
If you have valuable skills or knowledge it sure is.

No-one is born with valuable skills or knowledge, they have to acquire them.

Exactly. Part of life is acquiring valuable skills and knowledge.
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Riverwolf007

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#168 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

Why is there no balance in the world?Second_Hokage
read this.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1842.Guns_Germs_and_Steel

"Life isn't fair--here's why: Since 1500, Europeans have, for better & worse, called the tune that the world has danced to. In Guns, Germs & Steel, Jared Diamond explains the reasons why things worked out that way. It's an elemental question. Diamond is certainly not the 1st to ask it. However, he performs a singular service by relying on scientific fact rather than specious theories of European genetic superiority. Diamond, a UCLA physiologist, suggests that the geography of Eurasia was best suited to farming, the domestication of animals & the free flow of information. The more populous cultures that developed as a result had more complex forms of government & communication, & increased resistance to disease. Finally, fragmented Europe harnessed the power of competitive innovation in ways that China didn't. (For example, the Europeans used the Chinese invention of gunpowder to create guns & subjugate the New World.) Diamond's book is complex & a bit overwhelming. But the thesis he methodically puts forth--examining the "positive feedback loop" of farming, then domestication, then population density, then innovation etc.--makes sense. Written without bias, Guns, Germs & Steel is good global history"

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#169 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

[QUOTE="Second_Hokage"]Why is there no balance in the world?Riverwolf007

read this.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1842.Guns_Germs_and_Steel

Yeah that book is basically the answer to those questions.
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#170 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts

Exactly. Part of life is acquiring valuable skills and knowledge. KC_Hokie
Exactly. This process is often hampered by social conditions. People who succeed in spite of this are an exception.

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#171 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

KC_Hokie
I agree. It's never happened and never will. Even under communism they had classes.

No income in pure communism.
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#172 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

RushKing
I agree. It's never happened and never will. Even under communism they had classes.

No income in pure communism.

But pure communism is impossible so it is irrelevant
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#173 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

lol @ suggesting the world can have 100% equality in terms of income

RushKing
I agree. It's never happened and never will. Even under communism they had classes.

No income in pure communism.

Pure communism never happened. The closest thing was native american tribes.
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#174 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]I agree. It's never happened and never will. Even under communism they had classes. themajormayor
No income in pure communism.

But pure communism is impossible so it is irrelevant

No, you could easily do it in a small scale today.
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#175 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] No income in pure communism.

But pure communism is impossible so it is irrelevant

No, you could easily do it in a small scale today.

Not without any sort of income no
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SteverXIII

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#176 SteverXIII
Member since 2010 • 3795 Posts
Because the world isn't a fair place.
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#177 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] No income in pure communism.

But pure communism is impossible so it is irrelevant

No, you could easily do it in a small scale today.

No you can't. Communism had classes everywhere it was tried. In practice communism is extremely flawed.
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#178 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] But pure communism is impossible so it is irrelevant

No, you could easily do it in a small scale today.

Not without any sort of income no

What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?
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#179 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] No, you could easily do it in a small scale today.

Not without any sort of income no

What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?

Without any income? Dead
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#180 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Not without any sort of income no

What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?

Without any income? Dead

People don't need currency to survive.
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#181 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] No, you could easily do it in a small scale today.

Not without any sort of income no

What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?

The pilgrims tried that and nearly died.
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#182 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
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[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Not without any sort of income no

What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?

Without any income? Dead

What would they do with paper money on an island?
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#183 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?

Without any income? Dead

People don't need currency to survive.

I thought you said income not currency.
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#184 themajormayor
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[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] What would you call a group of 6 cooperating and surviving on a island without any currency?

Without any income? Dead

What would they do with paper money on an island?

Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.
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kuraimen

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#185 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Without any income? Dead

What would they do with paper money on an island?

Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What is the income then. Sure they need food and resources to live by but they can subsist by getting the resources and sharing it with the community exactly like early societies did. There were no classes since the community was basically self-sustained by the work of everyone.
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#186 themajormayor
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[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="jointed"] What would they do with paper money on an island?

Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What is the income then. Sure they need food and resources to live by but they can subsist by getting the resources and sharing it with the community exactly like early societies did. There were no classes since the community was basically self-sustained by the work of everyone.

Income is pretty much equal to production. Sure they can but what is the point with this discussion? You want to live on an island or what?
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kuraimen

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#187 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
The word communism comes from community by the way. The intention was for it to work in such a way but with large groups it becomes more difficult.
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#188 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
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[QUOTE="themajormayor"] Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.
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#189 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="jointed"] What would they do with paper money on an island?

Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What is the income then. Sure they need food and resources to live by but they can subsist by getting the resources and sharing it with the community exactly like early societies did. There were no classes since the community was basically self-sustained by the work of everyone.

That's not true. A bartering system existed and therefore income inequality.
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#190 themajormayor
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[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.

Yes?
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#192 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.

You can have income in a bartering system. No currency involved.
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#193 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
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[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.

Yes?

Point, what's your point?
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#194 themajormayor
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[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="jointed"] What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.

Yes?

Point, what's your point?

That income is always needed?
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#195 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
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[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.

You can have income in a bartering system. No currency involved.

Yeah, but how does that pertain to anything?
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#196 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Who said anything about money? Money just represents the income.

What is the income then. Sure they need food and resources to live by but they can subsist by getting the resources and sharing it with the community exactly like early societies did. There were no classes since the community was basically self-sustained by the work of everyone.

That's not true. A bartering system existed and therefore income inequality.

I'm talking about the early societies before the agricultural revolution, even early medieval cities worked like that in large part. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter "Contrary to popular conception, there is no evidence of a society or economy that relied primarily on barter.[2] Instead, non-monetary societies operated largely along the principles of gift economics and debt.[3][4] When barter did in fact occur, it was usually between either complete strangers or would-be enemies"
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#197 KC_Hokie
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[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="jointed"] What's your point? You used the word income separate from the word currency, bravo.

You can have income in a bartering system. No currency involved.

Yeah, but how does that pertain to anything?

Income inequality...it's always existed. Even in caveman times.
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kuraimen

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#198 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

wait..whats going on here.

humanity didnt exist before 'income'?

SEANMCAD
I don't know what this people mean by "income"
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#200 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
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[QUOTE="themajormayor"] That income is always needed?

That still says nothing about communism on an island. The fruits they plant are income, there you go.