Why are some people so rich and some people so poor?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]He observed non-human primates and came up with a number with a huge margin of error.

Applying the activities of primates to ancient humans is theoretical not observed.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="RushKing"] That person is no longer a part of the society, so everyone in the group remains equal.SEANMCAD

the problem is income does not equal contrbution or production.

We are led to believe it is but in reality it is not.

if you kick out the poor you will be in for one huge suprise the next time you go to the grocery store

the problem is income does not equal contrbution or production.

SEANMCAD

In our current society, income equals worth to society multiplied by ability divided by effort.

You might work hard, but your work isn't in demand.

Or you have an amazing ability, but don't work hard.

It can probaby be boiled down to a formula.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]A margin of error of 100 to 230 is horrible. Doesn't prove jack. Just a hypothesis. KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the problem is income does not equal contrbution or production.

We are led to believe it is but in reality it is not.

if you kick out the poor you will be in for one huge suprise the next time you go to the grocery store

SEANMCAD

What I am saying is that the wealthy actually produce less than the poor.

I am not saying all these examples are poor people but I am saying everything that actually makes this country run is produced by middle to lower class people.

If we started kicking out those who live off the government and contribute nothing to society....do you think the issue of income inequality wouldn't be the focus of the issue?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]As a percentage that's an awful margin of error. The numbers are separated by 100%. KC_Hokie

I am not saying all these examples are poor people but I am saying everything that actually makes this country run is produced by middle to lower class people. Every building you step into, every road you drive on, every peice of food you eat NONE of it is created by wealthy people

SEANMCAD

Who is more important, the McDonalds fry cook or someone who manages their supply chain?

Anybody can cook fries.

Not anybody can manage the logistics.

Therefor one gets $5/hr

The other gets $50/hr, because the work is more critical.

A poor person never hired anybody.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

What I am saying is that the wealthy actually produce less than the poor.

I am not saying all these examples are poor people but I am saying everything that actually makes this country run is produced by middle to lower class people.

SEANMCAD

If we started kicking out those who live off the government and contribute nothing to society....do you think the issue of income inequality wouldn't be the focus of the issue?

maybe I came late to the debate and that is causing my confusion. speaking for myself I am in no debate that inequality exists and has always existed both inequality in terms that do not matter (like i have more trash) as well as in ways that do matter (like I am great looking).

I would argue that income doesnt CREATE inequality but that inequality already exists regardless

I would agree and say inequality is part of human nature.

[QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]OK...but I was comparing the 'tribal' society of kicking someone out and not considering that income inequality to a modern equivalent.

If we started kicking out those who live off the government and contribute nothing to society....do you think the issue of income inequality wouldn't be the focus of the issue?

KC_Hokie

maybe I came late to the debate and that is causing my confusion. speaking for myself I am in no debate that inequality exists and has always existed both inequality in terms that do not matter (like i have more trash) as well as in ways that do matter (like I am great looking).

I would argue that income doesnt CREATE inequality but that inequality already exists regardless

I would agree and say inequality is part of human nature.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

maybe I came late to the debate and that is causing my confusion. speaking for myself I am in no debate that inequality exists and has always existed both inequality in terms that do not matter (like i have more trash) as well as in ways that do matter (like I am great looking).

I would argue that income doesnt CREATE inequality but that inequality already exists regardless

kuraimen

I would agree and say inequality is part of human nature.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Then we can agree income inequality has always existed even in prehistoric times with tribal societies.

I would agree and say inequality is part of human nature.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]If a tribal leader benefits in terms of possessions, favors, services, etc. and the lowest guy on the totem poll doesn't share the same benefits (goods and services)...then you have a system of income inequality. KC_Hokie

You basically can say that within early human societies inequality was kept to a minimunkuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]You basically can say that within early human societies inequality was kept to a minimunKC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]You basically can say that within early human societies inequality was kept to a minimunkuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]OK...and with any leadership position comes benefits. Those benefits, including goods and services, involve income inequality. KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]You basically can say that within early human societies inequality was kept to a minimunSEANMCAD

the problem you are making your entire point without substance. If you are taking the position that there is inequality because there is a king and there is a court hermit you really arent making much of a case for anything.

Your basic arguement is this

there is inequality because we all look different.

ok, well that if all fine and clever but what does it mean

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]We don't know that for a fact. Any member of a tribe plays some role whether tribal leader, hunter, medicine man, tribal whore, etc. And were men and women equal? Unlikely. KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]And how in the hell would you know that? KC_Hokie

hiring someone to do work you yourself are not doing is not exactly a skill I hold much value to that said lets take another approach.

if all the poor to middle class people left the country how much do you really think the weathy would actually be able to get done.

now, reverse that.

SEANMCAD

If all the poor leave then McDonalds is unstaffed.

If all the rich leave McDonalds shuts down.

People need each other, but their skills set is not equally valuable.

Management, negotiation, "soft skills" are the most valuable skills under the sun because they are RARE.

I can hire you to paint my shed for $100.

But for me to negotiate your NBA career...well I'm gonna need %20 of your $12 million contract.

It's the exact same thing with the tribal king having 14 wives and 200 horses.

You're sweating in the sun and he's getting all the hoes.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Because of studies. Read Mutual Aid by Peter Kropotkin. He explains that there pretty well based on many studies and evidence. Also read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond for a more recent take. He explains the evolution of societies and how differences and inequality starts between groups.kuraimen

Hell, we don't even know much about the average native american tribal society that existed 500 years ago because they didn't have a written language. We know little about the Anasazi or Mississippian cultures because they never wrote anything down.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Prehistoric humans couldn't read or write. And the oldest archeological evidence points to a system of trading. KC_Hokie

Hell, we don't even know much about the average native american tribal society because they didn't have a written language. We know little about the Anasazi or Mississippian cultures because they never wrote anything down.

its not human nature its nature and on that I would agree.

HAVING SAID THAT, there are two things

1. matters of degree

2. differences. by that I mean there are things baceteria can do that I could only dream of doing and vice versa. one isnt more valuable then the other I need bacteria to live

SEANMCAD

Things today are more equal than they have ever been.

Might not have a mansion or a ferrari, but you'll have a honda civic, a girlfriend, food, a place to sleep, xbox etc.

You don't need much money to live well.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Now I'm sure you're either trolling or dumb. Either way goodbye.kuraimen

Hell, we don't even know much about the average native american tribal society because they didn't have a written language. We know little about the Anasazi or Mississippian cultures because they never wrote anything down.

Again, we can dig up artifacts from extinct native american tribes but we still have no clue about their societies and culture. We can guess but that's all it is...a guess.

Not sure how anyone can say for a fact they know how a human group interacted 20,000 year ago. That's just stupid.

Because the middle ground is evil/socialism/Marxism/communism. Nope, we can't have that.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Without a written language there is no proof early humans shared everything equal and every member of the group had equal status.

Hell, we don't even know much about the average native american tribal society because they didn't have a written language. We know little about the Anasazi or Mississippian cultures because they never wrote anything down.

KC_Hokie

Again, we can dig up artifacts from extinct native american tribes but we still have no clue about their societies and culture. We can guess but that's all it is...a guess.

Not sure how anyone can say for a fact they know how a human group interacted 20,000 year ago. That's just stupid.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] If you read the books I commented you'll understand why. There's evidence there of anthropologists who have gone to study primitive cultures and lived among them for a long time. They have direct evidence.kuraimen

Again, we can dig up artifacts from extinct native american tribes but we still have no clue about their societies and culture. We can guess but that's all it is...a guess.

Not sure how anyone can say for a fact they know how a human group interacted 20,000 year ago. That's just stupid.

So how can anyone claim they know how humans interacted 20,000 years ago.

if the wealthy leave that entire structure of growing food, delievering food is in tact. All the poor/middle would need to do is deligate distrubution and that is easy.

SEANMCAD

All I keep hearing is about how easy it is to manage, hire, invest, etc.

And these words are usually mouthed by people who couldn't run a business to save their life.

Show me this company run by workers, how many paycuts did they take.

Also show me the tax returns of their union bosses, and the kickbacks.

Read Animal Farm.

I have to leave but I want to leave with this point.

If I hire a guy to fix my roof and build me a deck the assumption here is because I am sitting on my a$$ without a single clue on how to do either of those tasks that I am more valuable because I am the one paying the money.

That line of thinking really needs to get un-f*cked.

SEANMCAD

You don't know how to build a deck and the builder doesn't know how to program a computer.

You can both learn these skills, but fewer people can be programmers than carpenters.

Hence one gets paid more than the other.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Not sure how anyone can make that conclusion since the oldest archeological evidence shows trade.

Again, we can dig up artifacts from extinct native american tribes but we still have no clue about their societies and culture. We can guess but that's all it is...a guess.

Not sure how anyone can say for a fact they know how a human group interacted 20,000 year ago. That's just stupid.

KC_Hokie

So how can anyone claim they know how humans interacted 20,000 years ago.