Why can't good music be mainstream?

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"][QUOTE="Michael0134567"] Yeah they're good,as in they have talent.Michael0134567

Lol okay,whatever you say.I guess their albums get great reviews for no reason.

[QUOTE="Michael0134567"]

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"] Playing the same four simplistic chords every song =/= talent tre cool has to be one of the most boring drummers I've ever heard and billie joe sounds like a 13 year old, and acts like one tooLJS9502_basic

Lol okay,whatever you say.I guess their albums get great reviews for no reason.

[QUOTE="Michael0134567"]

Isn't Green Day and Lady Gaga mainstream?

Reed_Bowie

my point exactly

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="black_cat19"] Music taste is subjective, music quality isn't.LJS9502_basic

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)

Because the music industry approaches music purely as a business, and that isn't very benificial for creativity. Exceptions given, of course.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="scorch-62"] Care to explain?black_cat19

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)

EDIT: hmmm looks like my 4001th post ! :D

[QUOTE="black_cat19"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I believe he's talking about the fact that music is subjective...ie what one enjoys....and objective...ie the talent inherent in the individual(s) that create the music.dkdk999

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)

EDIT: hmmm looks like my 4001th post ! :D

If he just played a bunch of random chords thrown together he wouldn't be the best guitarist in the world.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)black_cat19

[QUOTE="black_cat19"]Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)scorch-62

Really? I don't seem to recall a talented musician ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. :?

Anyway, to elaborate on my point, the quality of any given piece of music can be objectively measured by its musicianship; technical prowess; music structure; harmonic, rythmic and melodic devices employed; development (i.e. actually expanding or elaborating on the main musical idea presented in a particular piece, as opposed to just introducing one main melodic line and repeating it throughout the whole piece, as techno is so fond of doing); among many others. All of those technical aspects of music can be used to judge the quality of a piece of music, and naturally the more familiar a composer is with these aspects, the more he can exploit them to make more complex pieces of music.

Now, you might not like a piece of music which incorporates all of these aspects, and that's perfectly acceptable; you don't HAVE to like it (this is up to each individual's taste, which is the subjective part), but that doesn't change the fact that as far as craftsmanship, knowledge, and effort put into making it, it's clearly superior to the work of someone who lacks the understanding of these elements.

Therefore, music taste is subjective, music quality isn't.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="black_cat19"]Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)black_cat19

Really? I don't seem to recall a talented musician ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. :?

are you serious? does yngwie malmsteen ring a bell? there's plenty of amazing musicians who make boring as **** music.

Really? I don't seem to recall a talented musician ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. :?

Anyway, to elaborate on my point, the quality of any given piece of music can be objectively measured by its musicianship; technical prowess; music structure; harmonic, rythmic and melodic devices employed; development (i.e. actually expanding or elaborating on the main musical idea presented in a particular piece, as opposed to just introducing one main melodic line and repeating it throughout the whole piece, as techno is so fond of doing); among many others. All of those technical aspects of music can be used to judge the quality of a piece of music, and naturally the more familiar a composer is with these aspects, the more he can exploit them to make more complex pieces of music.

Now, you might not like a piece of music which incorporates all of these aspects, and that's perfectly acceptable; you don't HAVE to like it (this is up to each individual's taste, which is the subjective part), but that doesn't change the fact that as far as craftsmanship, knowledge, and effort put into making it, it's clearly superior to the work of someone who lacks the understanding of these elements.

Therefore, music taste is subjective, music quality isn't.

black_cat19

[QUOTE="black_cat19"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"] Raw talent doesn't necessarily equate to producing good music.lazerface216

Really? I don't seem to recall a talented musician ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. :?

are you serious? does yngwie malmsteen ring a bell? there's plenty of amazing musicians who make boring as **** music.

[QUOTE="lazerface216"]

[QUOTE="black_cat19"]

Really? I don't seem to recall a talented musician ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. :?

LJS9502_basic

are you serious? does yngwie malmsteen ring a bell? there's plenty of amazing musicians who make boring as **** music.

the guy said he doesn't recall a talented musician (which is as vague as it gets) ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. if that isn't "subjective" i don't know what is. it's also a ridiculous statement.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="lazerface216"]

are you serious? does yngwie malmsteen ring a bell? there's plenty of amazing musicians who make boring as **** music.

lazerface216

the guy said he doesn't recall a talented musician (which is vague as hell) ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. if that isn't "subjective" i don't know what is. it's also a ridiculous statement.

[QUOTE="lazerface216"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] But that doesn't take away his talent. Enjoyment is still subjective....the talent is objective.LJS9502_basic

the guy said he doesn't recall a talented musician (which is vague as hell) ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. if that isn't "subjective" i don't know what is. it's also a ridiculous statement.

man, you reply quick lol. but yeah, i agree, his songs are the musical equivalent of a calculus lecture (AKA boring as ****).

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="lazerface216"]

the guy said he doesn't recall a talented musician (which is vague as hell) ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. if that isn't "subjective" i don't know what is. it's also a ridiculous statement.

lazerface216

man, you reply quick lol. but yeah, i agree, his songs are the musical equivalent of a calculus lecture (AKA boring as ****).

[QUOTE="lazerface216"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] The problem with Yngwie is he's all talent....no emotion.LJS9502_basic

man, you reply quick lol. but yeah, i agree, his songs are the musical equivalent of a calculus lecture (AKA boring as ****).

lol no problem man. i too appreciate a talented musician, no matter if i prefer the music or not. the guy can play, there's no question about that.

[QUOTE="lazerface216"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] But that doesn't take away his talent. Enjoyment is still subjective....the talent is objective.LJS9502_basic

the guy said he doesn't recall a talented musician (which is vague as hell) ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. if that isn't "subjective" i don't know what is. it's also a ridiculous statement.

I still think he is great. The reason for his absence of emotion is probably due to heavy drug usage and his lack of a soul.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="lazerface216"]

are you serious? does yngwie malmsteen ring a bell? there's plenty of amazing musicians who make boring as **** music.

lazerface216

the guy said he doesn't recall a talented musician (which is as vague as it gets) ever failing to produce great pieces of music on a consistent basis. if that isn't "subjective" i don't know what is. it's also a ridiculous statement.

Err, doesn't "consistency" generally mean that 9 times out of 10 something falls within a certain criteria? How is that subjective? :?

Anyway, I'm not very familiar with him, but just for the sake of argument, what if I told you that I love the majority of Malmsteen's work? The fact that you find it "boring as ****" or that I love it doesn't mean anything; like LJS said, whether you or anyone else likes his music or not is subjective (everyone's taste is different), but him being a talented musician, or in this case guitarist is objective and isn't up for debate (and just for the record, I HAVE heard him play).

On the flipside, do the cIassical masters (Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Stravinsky, etc.) ring a bell? All of them were extremely talented musicians who produced outstanding music pretty much throughout their whole careers. Now, you may not like CIassical music (your taste, subjective), but you can't possibly argue that the quality of most of these composer's works is top-notch (music quality, objective).

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="lazerface216"]

man, you reply quick lol. but yeah, i agree, his songs are the musical equivalent of a calculus lecture (AKA boring as ****).

lazerface216

lol no problem man. i too appreciate a talented musician, no matter if i prefer the music or not. the guy can play, there's no question about that.

And there you go. You may not like him, which is perfectly acceptable because taste is subjective, but we can all agree that as far as quality goes, he is objectively a good guitarist. :)

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]

[QUOTE="black_cat19"]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. (sorry for the delay, I went out for dinner)

black_cat19

EDIT: hmmm looks like my 4001th post ! :D

If he just played a bunch of random chords thrown together he wouldn't be the best guitarist in the world.

I ask myself the same question every day. Why aren't The Strokes playing on every god ****ed station in America?

This is the music industry we're talking about...that would make too much sense for them.

Lol at the comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8r45usSKXg&NR=1

Hah what? A lot of good bands are mainstream; The Strokes, Muse, Interpol, etc.

i think there are really good rock bands out there, but still we dont know about them .
Still , you have good ones like Linkin Park , Papa Roach , 3Days Grace ..... and the list goes one
oh right there's also good punk rock bands too with are really good such as Green Day , Paramore which i think we all know lol how silly of me to mention them :P .
any ways i disagree that Rock is Dead as long we have those guys
but Grunge is for sure Pretty Dead :(
R.I.P Kurt Cobain

Every single one of those bands is absolutely horrid garbage. I am a musician, and I tend to avoid crap that gets shoveled out like this crap. A friend of mine took music industry arts, and what they told him about how stuff gets played is pretty depressing. They are purposefully dumbing down music not only to sell to the masses, but so that sheeple like yourselves can get used to it and accept it(therefore becoming more pliable) so they can continue feeding you the crap they peddle. It's advertising and media that WANTS you to buy this crap. Why do you think music is so unmemorable? Do you see people listening to Lady Gaga hits from her early years? No? It's always the latest thing, everything is forgettable, disposable. It's like fast food, it's like video games and it's like yourselves

i think there are really good rock bands out there, but still we dont know about them .
Still , you have good ones like Linkin Park , Papa Roach , 3Days Grace ..... and the list goes one
oh right there's also good punk rock bands too with are really good such as Green Day , Paramore which i think we all know lol how silly of me to mention them :P .
any ways i disagree that Rock is Dead as long we have those guys
but Grunge is for sure Pretty Dead :(
R.I.P Kurt Cobain

Night_thegamer

Linking park, papa roach, 3 days grace good rock?

No way Green Day and paramore.. good punk? that's laughable

Good music is mainstream. Like Dream Theater or Brokencyde.

Hah what? A lot of good bands are mainstream; The Strokes, Muse, Interpol, etc.

Lief_Ericson

[QUOTE="Lief_Ericson"]

Hah what? A lot of good bands are mainstream; The Strokes, Muse, Interpol, etc.

LJS9502_basic

Come on now, are we gonna deny that bands like Muse are mainstream? They're as mainstream as it gets. Just because they don't have a summer hit that gets played 7 times a day on the lamest radio stations doesn't mean that pretty much anyone who's up to date with modern music has at least heard of them. Hell, even my friends talk about bands like that from time to time and they are in no way 'underground' with their music tastes.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Lief_Ericson"]

Hah what? A lot of good bands are mainstream; The Strokes, Muse, Interpol, etc.

DraugenCP

Come on now, are we gonna deny that bands like Muse are mainstream? They're as mainstream as it gets. Just because they don't have a summer hit that gets played 7 times a day on the lamest radio stations doesn't mean that pretty much anyone who's up to date with modern music has at least heard of them. Hell, even my friends talk about bands like that from time to time and they are in no way 'underground' with their music tastes.

We would all have to agree on what good music is, and I don't see that happening.

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] They aren't played on radio....least not around here. They happen to have a fan base....but I doubt if you ask the average person they'd know who any of those three are. In fact.....Interpol was an opening act at a concert recently and no one knew of them. Well I did....but I don't get my music from the radio.LJS9502_basic

Come on now, are we gonna deny that bands like Muse are mainstream? They're as mainstream as it gets. Just because they don't have a summer hit that gets played 7 times a day on the lamest radio stations doesn't mean that pretty much anyone who's up to date with modern music has at least heard of them. Hell, even my friends talk about bands like that from time to time and they are in no way 'underground' with their music tastes.

It's certainly what you implied with saying that the average person wouldn't know any of these bands.

We would all have to agree on what good music is, and I don't see that happening.

LovePotionNo9

I say what qualifies as good music is music I like. This is one of those topics that will never end well and usually ends up locked with heated arguments/debates. Its like trying to figure out what the best videogame is, or movie, or tv show, or car, or shoes..There are some questions that have NO answers and never will and honestly CANT have a final answer.

[QUOTE="Night_thegamer"]

i think there are really good rock bands out there, but still we dont know about them .
Still , you have good ones like Linkin Park , Papa Roach , 3Days Grace ..... and the list goes one
oh right there's also good punk rock bands too with are really good such as Green Day , Paramore which i think we all know lol how silly of me to mention them :P .
any ways i disagree that Rock is Dead as long we have those guys
but Grunge is for sure Pretty Dead :(
R.I.P Kurt Cobain

imaps3fanboy

Linking park, papa roach, 3 days grace good rock?

No way Green Day and paramore.. good punk? that's laughable

Lol man,you take your hatred way too far.

Lol at the comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8r45usSKXg&NR=1

imaps3fanboy

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

Lol at the comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8r45usSKXg&NR=1

Michael0134567

Lol, she's not even a sweet lil' disney whore either anymore? Have you seen some of her concerts? she practically wears nothing...

@NukaNuked

And you're complaining about her wearing practically nothing?;)

There is good mainstream music.

There is good mainstream music.

Lto_thaG

[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]

There is good mainstream music.

Michael0134567

[QUOTE="Michael0134567"][QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]

There is good mainstream music.

Lto_thaG

Huh,I like them too,especially Gaga :).Ke$ha is just plain fun,and Cannibal is quite an improvement over Animal,but I still like it.I also really like Avril Lavigne :).