why do americans hate free health care

[QUOTE="james28893"]I'm a Brit too, my experience (and several of my friends) with the NHS ahs been pretty poor. That's why I have health insurance, so I don't ever have to cope with massive bills, but I don't have to wait a year for treatment. The only thing the NHS is good for is consuming resources (42% (serious) of the UK's budget last year was spent on healthcare and social services) and for prescription medication (one of my friends has type one diabetes (the genetic one) and is given his insulin by the NHS).scorch-62

That's another thing about socialist health care. The eventual massive wait. :|

Yes because everything on the NHS is over a years wait :|

Yes, but to me it seems very wrong treating human life as a commodity.
bman784

You're right. But thats not what is happening. The commodity is a service - not human life.

[QUOTE="james28893"]I'm a Brit too, my experience (and several of my friends) with the NHS ahs been pretty poor. That's why I have health insurance, so I don't ever have to cope with massive bills, but I don't have to wait a year for treatment. The only thing the NHS is good for is consuming resources (42% (serious) of the UK's budget last year was spent on healthcare and social services) and for prescription medication (one of my friends has type one diabetes (the genetic one) and is given his insulin by the NHS).scorch-62

That's another thing about socialist health care. The eventual massive wait. :|

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]

That's another thing about socialist health care. The eventual massive wait. :|

edd678

Yes because everything on the NHS is over a years wait :|

Are you saying there is no waiting list? Because studies have shown that to be the case.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] Well, why is it that education's availibility is more important than healthcare? I should think that stitching up a cut professionally rather than letting it get infected and amputated is more important than teaching our children how to read and write, which is a service most people can afford anyway.

The_Ish

No, most people can't afford to teach their children everything they need or would want to know. Boarding and private schools cost a ****load of money, if you havn't noticed - and they're standards are monitored by the government, which makes sure they don't suck so as kids who attend these private institutions are not at a disadvantage.

Free government subsidies, as in, all government subsidies are free, and they all cost the government money. We probably spend as much on subsidizing agriculture as we would on healthcare.

quiglythegreat

That is because a nation needs a proper agricultural industry to survive. I don't know...but living in a nation that can't feed itself seems like it would die pretty quickly.

You talk about roads being necessary for industry, so obviously, the government should pay for it. Which is totally absurd when you consider the point of industry: MAKING MONEY.
quiglythegreat

Actually, it makes perfect sense - because everyone, the people and the government, make more money in the long run.

This question is posed incorrectly, since it the opinion depends on the political party. Democrats are for free health care. Republicans are not. rimnet00

Liberals are for free health care (Obama's simply for affordable health care, though). Conservatives aren't. Republican/Democrat are derogatory.

[QUOTE="hoola"][QUOTE="muppet1010"][QUOTE="crazychris"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Because Americans have dreamy ideals of "freedom" and "capitalism", and reject anything that even hints at socialism, even if it's extremely beneficial. muppet1010

I rather pay for a doctor that cares a little bit about me than get a doctor that doesnt give a crap about me for free

correction.. the doctor cares about your money.. thats why he wont treat you for free ;)

If the doctor wants more money he will provide better service.

yeah... thats my point. the doctor wants monay :|

Yeah i was backing you up :). I don't know for a fact but i believe that if there is no incentive to make more money then there is no incentive to provide better service. I am just saying my opinion though.

[QUOTE="bman784"]
Yes, but to me it seems very wrong treating human life as a commodity.
The_Ish

You're right. But thats not what is happening. The commodity is a service - not human life.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="james28893"]I'm a Brit too, my experience (and several of my friends) with the NHS ahs been pretty poor. That's why I have health insurance, so I don't ever have to cope with massive bills, but I don't have to wait a year for treatment. The only thing the NHS is good for is consuming resources (42% (serious) of the UK's budget last year was spent on healthcare and social services) and for prescription medication (one of my friends has type one diabetes (the genetic one) and is given his insulin by the NHS).edd678

That's another thing about socialist health care. The eventual massive wait. :|

Yes because everything on the NHS is over a years wait :|

I meant to edit that as "possible" >_>

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]This question is posed incorrectly, since it the opinion depends on the political party. Democrats are for free health care. Republicans are not. scorch-62

Liberals are for free health care (Obama's simply for affordable health care, though). Conservatives aren't. Republican/Democrat are derogatory.

Um...Republican and Democrat are the party names.:|

[QUOTE="muppet1010"][QUOTE="hoola"][QUOTE="muppet1010"][QUOTE="crazychris"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Because Americans have dreamy ideals of "freedom" and "capitalism", and reject anything that even hints at socialism, even if it's extremely beneficial. hoola

I rather pay for a doctor that cares a little bit about me than get a doctor that doesnt give a crap about me for free

correction.. the doctor cares about your money.. thats why he wont treat you for free ;)

If the doctor wants more money he will provide better service.

yeah... thats my point. the doctor wants monay :|

Yeah i was backing you up :). I don't know for a fact but i believe that if there is no incentive to make more money then there is no incentive to provide better service. I am just saying my opinion though.

oh lol. Yeah Money is a big incentive nowadays :P

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]
Yes, but to me it seems very wrong treating human life as a commodity.
quiglythegreat

You're right. But thats not what is happening. The commodity is a service - not human life.

The skill and education of an individual saves lives.

[QUOTE="edd678"][QUOTE="scorch-62"]

That's another thing about socialist health care. The eventual massive wait. :|

LJS9502_basic

Yes because everything on the NHS is over a years wait :|

Are you saying there is no waiting list? Because studies have shown that to be the case.

Im not saying there are no wating lists, just that wating times are over exagerated at times. For example last tiem i heard people were sayign they were watign a year for a new hip operation. My cousins grandma on the NHS got it in 6 weeks.

Im not saying there are no wating lists, just that wating times are over exagerated at times. For example last tiem i heard people were sayign they were watign a year for a new hip operation. My cousins grandma on the NHS got it in 6 weeks.

edd678

You know one instance....that does not negate that one of the criticisms of the system is waiting lists...for necessary procedures.

I don't get why americans are so against it.

It's essentially health insurance (with the tax as your insurance payments, government as your insurer) with a much larger risk pool.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="rimnet00"]This question is posed incorrectly, since it the opinion depends on the political party. Democrats are for free health care. Republicans are not. LJS9502_basic

Liberals are for free health care (Obama's simply for affordable health care, though). Conservatives aren't. Republican/Democrat are derogatory.

Um...Republican and Democrat are the party names.:|

And? I know that. We're talking about political views. You can have a liberal Republican, a conservative Republican, a liberal Democrat or a conservative Democrat. Since a majority of the Republicans are conservative, people assume that ALL Republicans are conservative. That's wrong. The same is said about Democrats. A majority of the Democrats are liberal, so people assume that they're ALL liberal, and that's wrong, too.

Huh. So medical bills cost nothing and poor people can't pay for their education, all though they can pay for medical bills (and remember, the impoverished are statistically way more likely to have health issues).

quiglythegreat

The "poor" already have socialized healthcare. And if you havn't noticed, healthcare is free for kids up until they are 18 when they become legally adults, and have had the chance to be educated.

And obviously we need to be paying farmers to dump their crop into the ocean or burn it, or else we'd just die.

quiglythegreat

Proper agriculture is needed - but when we make a surplus, that means the nation is making more than it needs. It costs less to dump and burn the crops than to send them overseas to poor nations (and we have no inclination or obligation to help these nations anyways - they are not the people the government protects) or to preserve them for as long as possible. We would probably need the firtelizer anyways.

You argue for very, very specific government intervention. For some reason, should we pay for a person's bandage, it's just impracticle and outrageous, but helping out billion-dollar industries is A-OK.
quiglythegreat

People can pay for healthcare when they can afford them, or the government does it for them if they can't. And this multi-billion dollar industry keeps this country alive.

I don't get why americans are so against it.

It's essentially health insurance (with the tax as your insurance payments, government as your insurer) with a much larger risk pool. Mr_sprinkles

Again: Americans criticize taxes as high now and socialist health care would make them even higher.

And? I know that. We're talking about political views. You can have a liberal Republican, a conservative Republican, a liberal Democrat or a conservative Democrat. Since a majority of the Republicans are conservative, people assume that ALL Republicans are conservative. That's wrong. The same is said about Democrats. A majority of the Democrats are liberal, so people assume that they're ALL liberal, and that's wrong, too.

scorch-62

You called them derogatory.:|

Well first, it's payed for by taxes, so it's not really free, which means more taxes, which means more hassle, also the quality of health care would drop by a lot if the government started running the health care system.

Many people pay very little, some pay big, but many get great health care from the people they are currently with.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]I don't get why americans are so against it.

It's essentially health insurance (with the tax as your insurance payments, government as your insurer) with a much larger risk pool. scorch-62

Again: Americans criticize taxes as high now and socialist health care would make them even higher.

taxes would become outragous if health care was free for everybody. why should i have to contribute to someones elses health care that dont even work? oh wait, i already do its called welfare.crazychris

We may pay some of the lowest taxes in the world, but we end up paying more out of pocket so we really aren't saving any money.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] Huh. So medical bills cost nothing and poor people can't pay for their education, all though they can pay for medical bills (and remember, the impoverished are statistically way more likely to have health issues).

The_Ish

The "poor" already have socialized healthcare. And if you havn't noticed, healthcare is free for kids up until they are 18 when they become legally adults, and have had the chance to be educated.

And obviously we need to be paying farmers to dump their crop into the ocean or burn it, or else we'd just die.

quiglythegreat

Proper agriculture is needed - but when we make a surplus, that means the nation is making more than it needs. It costs less to dump and burn the crops than to send them overseas to poor nations (and we have no inclination or obligation to help these nations anyways - they are not the people the government protects) or to preserve them for as long as possible. We would probably need the firtelizer anyways.

You argue for very, very specific government intervention. For some reason, should we pay for a person's bandage, it's just impracticle and outrageous, but helping out billion-dollar industries is A-OK.
quiglythegreat

People can pay for healthcare when they can afford them, or the government does it for them if they can't. And this multi-billion dollar industry keeps this country alive.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]I don't get why americans are so against it.

It's essentially health insurance (with the tax as your insurance payments, government as your insurer) with a much larger risk pool. Mr_sprinkles

Again: Americans criticize taxes as high now and socialist health care would make them even higher.

How do you figure that? I'm not rich...but the increased taxes would mean I pay more than I currently do for insurance.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]And? I know that. We're talking about political views. You can have a liberal Republican, a conservative Republican, a liberal Democrat or a conservative Democrat. Since a majority of the Republicans are conservative, people assume that ALL Republicans are conservative. That's wrong. The same is said about Democrats. A majority of the Democrats are liberal, so people assume that they're ALL liberal, and that's wrong, too.LJS9502_basic

You called them derogatory.:|

And? :|

derogatory (adj.)

1. Disparaging; belittling: a derogatory comment.
2. Tending to detract or diminish.

Saying that all Republicans and all Democrats believe a certain way is pretty detracting or diminishing, is it not?

I live paycheck to paycheck without medical insurance and some of you have no idea just how bad this is. The price of healthcare today is not even reasonable for people that make less than $20k a year.

Whenever I get sick....I just have to deal with it, and hope that whatever I caught is not serious.

Doctor visit's are $100 minimum, and then if you want the prescription your looking at spending another $100 minimum. When work tells me they want a doctor's excuse I have to tell them that it won't be possible....a doctor would cost to much. Most times that I do get sick I have to continue working anyway, because I can't afford not too.

If I had a serious medical problem such as diabetes I would just be plain screwed. If I have any kind of serious medical issue or need x-rays, surgery, CAT scans then I am once again screwed.

Nobody should have to live like this...especially in a country some call "the greatest country in the world".

If you watch "Sicko" you will see that Cubans and Terrorists at Gitmo are getting better healthcare than me, and honestly that makes me very angry, and very dissapointed in our country.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]I don't get why americans are so against it.

It's essentially health insurance (with the tax as your insurance payments, government as your insurer) with a much larger risk pool. LJS9502_basic

Again: Americans criticize taxes as high now and socialist health care would make them even higher.

How do you figure that? I'm not rich...but the increased taxes would mean I pay more than I currently do for insurance.

and how do you figure that you would pay more? you've put about as many facts and figures in your post as i did in mine...

well i guess it depends where the government increases the tax and by how much. the whole idea of it is that people who earn more money pay a higher % tax.

and how do you figure that you would pay more? you've put about as many facts and figures in your post as i did in mine...

Mr_sprinkles

How much increased tax do you pay? I pay barely nothing for my insurance....less than $20.00 a month.

wait a second...its free???:shock:

where the hell have i been?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="scorch-62"]And? I know that. We're talking about political views. You can have a liberal Republican, a conservative Republican, a liberal Democrat or a conservative Democrat. Since a majority of the Republicans are conservative, people assume that ALL Republicans are conservative. That's wrong. The same is said about Democrats. A majority of the Democrats are liberal, so people assume that they're ALL liberal, and that's wrong, too.scorch-62

You called them derogatory.:|

And? :|

derogatory (adj.)

1. Disparaging; belittling: a derogatory comment.
2. Tending to detract or diminish.

Saying that all Republicans and all Democrats believe a certain way is pretty detracting or diminishing, is it not?

Ah...I thought you were calling Republican and Democrat derogatory.

wait a second...its free???:shock:

where the hell have i been?mlbslugger86

As much as I'd like to say "the Matrix," you've been in a fact-based environment where there are only facts and cupcakes. :|

Canada's health care isn't free. They pay higher taxes for health coverage.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="scorch-62"]And? I know that. We're talking about political views. You can have a liberal Republican, a conservative Republican, a liberal Democrat or a conservative Democrat. Since a majority of the Republicans are conservative, people assume that ALL Republicans are conservative. That's wrong. The same is said about Democrats. A majority of the Democrats are liberal, so people assume that they're ALL liberal, and that's wrong, too.LJS9502_basic

You called them derogatory.:|

And? :|

derogatory (adj.)

1. Disparaging; belittling: a derogatory comment.
2. Tending to detract or diminish.

Saying that all Republicans and all Democrats believe a certain way is pretty detracting or diminishing, is it not?

Ah...I thought you were calling Republican and Democrat derogatory.

Nice to know we're on the same level now ;)

I live paycheck to paycheck without medical insurance and some of you have no idea just how bad this is. The price of healthcare today is not even reasonable for people that make less than $20k a year.

Whenever I get sick....I just have to deal with it, and hope that whatever I caught is not serious.

Doctor visit's are $100 minimum, and then if you want the prescription your looking at spending another $100 minimum. When work tells me they want a doctor's excuse I have to tell them that it won't be possible....a doctor would cost to much. Most times that I do get sick I have to continue working anyway, because I can't afford not too.

If I had a serious medical problem such as diabetes I would just be plain screwed. If I have any kind of serious medical issue or need x-rays, surgery, CAT scans then I am once again screwed.

Nobody should have to live like this...especially in a country some call "the greatest country in the world".

If you watch "Sicko" you will see that Cubans and Terrorists at Gitmo are getting better healthcare than me, and honestly that makes me very angry, and very dissapointed in our country.

Palax

Why not try for a better job? One can't live on that salary.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"] well i guess it depends where the government increases the tax and by how much. the whole idea of it is that people who earn more money pay a higher % tax.

and how do you figure that you would pay more? you've put about as many facts and figures in your post as i did in mine...

LJS9502_basic

How much increased tax do you pay? I pay barely nothing for my insurance....less than $20.00 a month.

I dunno how much increased tax i pay; too many other factors when comparing tax between america and UK. but i do know that my taxes won't increase if I'm become seriously ill, I won't be charged to visit the doctor, my prescriptions will be free, I won't be billed for any operations, and my ability to access healthcare will not be limited to how much the insurers are willing to fork out, or my own ability to pay.
Mr_sprinkles

I can guarantee you're paying quite a bit in taxes....more than I pay monthy for insurance. Yes, I'd have some out of pocket expenses....but it wouldn't add up to what you pay. Prior to our current governor I've been hospitalized, had surgery, and paid nothing. Not one dime....including follow up doctor visits. And sripts were only a few dollars.

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]"theres no such thing as a free lunch"Bourbons3

they still bought the lunch. somebody had to pay for it. thats the point of the saying.

i live in canada and watch cnn from time to time. i keep hearing them say no free health care. But why! why do you guys love paying 1000s of $ for somthing we get free. free health care works fine in canada and europe . in america they let people die cus they dont have money or let them lose an arm cus they dont have the cash to get it put back on.deadmeat59

It keeps the country alive BECAUSE IT CONTROLS THE COUNTRY.

quiglythegreat

False. This is a Republic where the citzens chose their president and elected officials. Corporations may have influence, but they do not, and will not, ever have control.

What keeps Europe alive, where corporations don't have a strangle-hold on government? They must be all dead.

quiglythegreat

What does Europe have to do with American healthcare?

The government does not pay for all people under 18.

quiglythegreat

False again. Before I was 18, my parents took me to the doctor when they needed to, and it didn't cost them anything. They do the same with my brother, who is now 8 years old.

We have made a surplus in agriculture ever since there have been lobbyists for farmers. Strange coincidence, eh? Why would we need the fertilizer anyway? To make more food.

quiglythegreat

Excellent then. More food and fertilizer for us, and no chance for this nation to ever starve.

The government doesn't pay for healthcare if you can't, or rather it does, but not before you go entirely bankrupt, and this happens to people all the time. People routinely go bankrupt because of medical bills.
quiglythegreat

False again. I've had all these vaccines given to me and I've been taken care of well for free - including when I had to have Appendicitis (sp?) surgery. All paid for by the government.

You are healthy. you are lucky. I'm sure somebody with type 1 diabetes would be paying much much more, for something they cannot help. Luck of the draw? the minority, don't raise my taxes?
Mr_sprinkles

No, they wouldn't. Insurance covers the treatment whatever it is. You don't understand how insurance works.:|

You pay for health care through taxes. ;) But the last time I checked, they don't let you die, they simply send you a bill.DeeJayInphinity

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]It keeps the country alive BECAUSE IT CONTROLS THE COUNTRY.

The_Ish

False. This is a Republic where the citzens chose their president and elected officials. Corporations may have influence, but they do not. and will not, ever have control.

What keeps Europe alive, where corporations don't have a strangle-hold on government? They must be all dead.

quiglythegreat

What does Europe have to do with American healthcare?

The government does not pay for all people under 18.

quiglythegreat

False again. Before I was 18, my parents took me to the doctor when they needed to, and it didn't cost them anything. They do the same with my brother.

We have made a surplus in agriculture ever since there have been lobbyists for farmers. Strange coincidence, eh? Why would we need the fertilizer anyway? To make more food.

quiglythegreat

Excellent then.

The government doesn't pay for healthcare if you can't, or rather it does, but not before you go entirely bankrupt, and this happens to people all the time. People routinely go bankrupt because of medical bills.
quiglythegreat

False again. I've had all these vaccines given to me and I've been taken care of well for free - including when I had to have Apendicitus (sp?) surgery. All paid for by the government.

I dunno, but I think it's propanda. American health care sucks, but they don't want Americans to know how much better it is in places like Canada, or Europe.hydralisk86

Yes, its all propaganda. You solved the mystery that is the lack of social health care in America. :roll:

Huh. So if all your medical bills are paid for by the government, why is it that people still go bankrupt routinely from their inability to pay for medical expenses?
quiglythegreat

Because

A) They did not file for government assistance - which means it's their own fault.

B) They are well off but didn't pay for health insurance since that zomg new HDTV I MUST HAVE IT urges were overtaking them.

How does either of these happen, I have no idea. Most people in this country don't know how to manage their money.