Why do people try so hard to save their life?
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You said that "we don't postulate the same things". Since my postulates were evolution and a godless universe it's only logical that i assumed that you believe in god and are against evolution. Was i wrong or? so you assume and i am wrong? really? mr agnostic does not base his theories on religion or lack there of so you assume he is religious....[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] and there is the ad hominem attack, where have i made any religious based argument? and you are still dismissing any other view or valuation on a purely speculative and subjective grounds. i am sure you would accept any valuation that agreed with yours but that hardly leaves you open to others valuations. please stick to arguments without making fallacious attacks.
surrealnumber5
religion does not hold sway on me either way... i dont assume because there is no god life must be devoid of purpose... i dont assume because of god life is worth living. those are not the two views in this world, and many people dont even try to fit god into their equation. it is weird that a self described atheist would put so much weight in a god he does not believe could exist.
Look, the postulates are pretty simple, this is a godless universe and we are a product of evolution, from then on it's pretty simple. Why are you so stubborn, you said and i will quote you again "we don't postulate the same things". Do you disagree with these two or what, make up your mind...People wanna live long enough for Christmas you know. It would suck to die after all of that waiting amirite?It's all around us, people going to extreme measures to just save their life and for what? What is so great about this world that makes people want to fight to live so badly? We all know that we are gonna die eventually, so whats the point?
whitetiger3521
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]so you assume and i am wrong? really? mr agnostic does not base his theories on religion or lack there of so you assume he is religious....[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]You said that "we don't postulate the same things". Since my postulates were evolution and a godless universe it's only logical that i assumed that you believe in god and are against evolution. Was i wrong or?Stavrogin_
religion does not hold sway on me either way... i dont assume because there is no god life must be devoid of purpose... i dont assume because of god life is worth living. those are not the two views in this world, and many people dont even try to fit god into their equation. it is weird that a self described atheist would put so much weight in a god he does not believe could exist.
Look, the postulates are pretty simple, this is a godless universe and we are a product of evolution, from then on it's pretty simple. Why are you so stubborn, you said and i will quote you again "we don't postulate the same things". Do you disagree with these two or what, make up your mind... the whole point of being agnostic is not to draw a definitive line on an unanswerable question. if you can prove or disprove god i will conclude one way or the other. i try not to assume answers for questions that have no evidence either way. you keep coming back to a god or no god as thepivotal point in your argument, and such an assumption is not part of any argument i make. value and purpose can be found in this world for people with or without god, you argue that life is meaningless, and i guess it sucks for you that you cannot find any value in anything you do and have come to the conclusion that there is no purpose for you, but the vast majority of people do find value in this world and their creed has nothing to do with their valuation.Its our natural instincts to survive plain and simple.
Look, the postulates are pretty simple, this is a godless universe and we are a product of evolution, from then on it's pretty simple. Why are you so stubborn, you said and i will quote you again "we don't postulate the same things". Do you disagree with these two or what, make up your mind... the whole point of being agnostic is not to draw a definitive line on an unanswerable question. if you can prove or disprove god i will conclude one way or the other. i try not to assume answers for questions that have no evidence either way. you keep coming back to a god or no god as thepivotal point in your argument, and such an assumption is not part of any argument i make. value and purpose can be found in this world for people with or without god, you argue that life is meaningless, and i guess it sucks for you that you cannot find any value in anything you do and have come to the conclusion that there is no purpose for you, but the vast majority of people do find value in this world and their creed has nothing to do with their valuation.Yes, you may find purpose but that's just self-deception. Purpose has to have value. We are devoid of value given the fact that we are the product of a mechanism called evolution which is just adaptation through mutation and has no ultimate goal or purpose. Tell me, if we have a purpose, value and meaning what do you think will happen if our entire solar system was just wiped out? Nothing, nothing would change. THAT'S how meaningful we are...[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] so you assume and i am wrong? really? mr agnostic does not base his theories on religion or lack there of so you assume he is religious....
religion does not hold sway on me either way... i dont assume because there is no god life must be devoid of purpose... i dont assume because of god life is worth living. those are not the two views in this world, and many people dont even try to fit god into their equation. it is weird that a self described atheist would put so much weight in a god he does not believe could exist.
surrealnumber5
Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]the whole point of being agnostic is not to draw a definitive line on an unanswerable question. if you can prove or disprove god i will conclude one way or the other. i try not to assume answers for questions that have no evidence either way. you keep coming back to a god or no god as thepivotal point in your argument, and such an assumption is not part of any argument i make. value and purpose can be found in this world for people with or without god, you argue that life is meaningless, and i guess it sucks for you that you cannot find any value in anything you do and have come to the conclusion that there is no purpose for you, but the vast majority of people do find value in this world and their creed has nothing to do with their valuation.Yes, you may find purpose but that's just self-deception. Purpose has to have value. We are devoid of value given the fact that we are the product of a mechanism called evolution which is just adaptation through mutation and has no ultimate goal or purpose. Tell me, if we have a purpose, value and meaning what do you think will happen if our entire solar system was just wiped out? Nothing, nothing would change. THAT'S how meaningful we are... you just made several valuations and judgements, and they only hold weight for you. i am making the judgement that i am not deceiving my self, that i do indeed have purpose, and that purpose has value. i like to place the things i value in an ordinal ranking system. you evaluate things and deem we have no value, so i guess no one is going to target you as a potential consumer as everything would be without value, however you not being the sole evaluator is how trade can still exist. the fact that so many values so much it kinda kicks you out into the statistical outlier zone, meaning in a study or poll your opinion would be tossed out.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Look, the postulates are pretty simple, this is a godless universe and we are a product of evolution, from then on it's pretty simple. Why are you so stubborn, you said and i will quote you again "we don't postulate the same things". Do you disagree with these two or what, make up your mind...Stavrogin_
your dissenting view may be correct for you but by any measure not so myopic, youre far off base.
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Yes, you may find purpose but that's just self-deception. Purpose has to have value. We are devoid of value given the fact that we are the product of a mechanism called evolution which is just adaptation through mutation and has no ultimate goal or purpose. Tell me, if we have a purpose, value and meaning what do you think will happen if our entire solar system was just wiped out? Nothing, nothing would change. THAT'S how meaningful we are...[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] the whole point of being agnostic is not to draw a definitive line on an unanswerable question. if you can prove or disprove god i will conclude one way or the other. i try not to assume answers for questions that have no evidence either way. you keep coming back to a god or no god as thepivotal point in your argument, and such an assumption is not part of any argument i make. value and purpose can be found in this world for people with or without god, you argue that life is meaningless, and i guess it sucks for you that you cannot find any value in anything you do and have come to the conclusion that there is no purpose for you, but the vast majority of people do find value in this world and their creed has nothing to do with their valuation.
thegerg
Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.
What has led you to the conclusion that simply because we have evolved means that we have no purpose?From the point of evolution, our purpose is perpetuating the species through reproduction.
What this guy said. and i am - well by comparison - A LOT more religious then a lot of people on this forum. At the risk of turning this thread into an afterlife debate #3 (in the past two days). People are scared of the unknown and what lies beyond moment of -actual- death. If there is a chance to extend your life, people take it.[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]Because nobody likes uncertainty and the unknown. I don't care if you are the most religious person in the world, everyone is scared and has their doubts of what may happen after you die. It is better to do something you already know (live) that take a giant leap into the unknown.whitetiger3521
Why try to extend your life only for it to be taken anyways?
So the point is not to die right away. If you don't mind dieing at a young age, than so be it. I for one know that I don't. If I have lived a long life and say I was in my 70's and attempting to stay alive meant surgeries and hundreds of different medications on a daily basis then no it makes no sense to go through all that pain just to know that you migh have another couple of years if you were healthy.[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Yes, you may find purpose but that's just self-deception. Purpose has to have value. We are devoid of value given the fact that we are the product of a mechanism called evolution which is just adaptation through mutation and has no ultimate goal or purpose. Tell me, if we have a purpose, value and meaning what do you think will happen if our entire solar system was just wiped out? Nothing, nothing would change. THAT'S how meaningful we are...What has led you to the conclusion that simply because we have evolved means that we have no purpose?From the point of evolution, our purpose is perpetuating the species through reproduction. Boy do you live a depressed life. In the grand scheme of space and time we may not have a purpose at all, but there could be this possibility that we happen to be one of the luckiest species ever. That is we might be the only ones here with the intelligence to know what we are and to realize that we exist. That in itself is value my friend. It's called appreciation for what you have. We may all go away tomorrow and the sun will keep burning and the earth will continue to spin. The value is that we know there is a sun burning and we know the earth exists. How many other species know that?Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.
Stavrogin_
i am making the judgement that i am not deceiving my self, that i do indeed have purpose, and that purpose has value. surrealnumber5That's subjective value, as i said before:
Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.Stavrogin_Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before.
From the point of evolution, our purpose is perpetuating the species through reproduction. Boy do you live a depressed life. In the grand scheme of space and time we may not have a purpose at all, but there could be this possibility that we happen to be one of the luckiest species ever. That is we might be the only ones here with the intelligence to know what we are and to realize that we exist. That in itself is value my friend. It's called appreciation for what you have. We may all go away tomorrow and the sun will keep burning and the earth will continue to spin. The value is that we know there is a sun burning and we know the earth exists. How many other species know that?Meh, call me spoiled but i've never considered modesty a virtue. And you'll only know that "there is a sun burning" for about 60 years or less (given your age). After that you're dead and you won't remember anything because you'll cease to exist. Life and death is like having sex with a beautiful women (life) and not remembering it at all afterwards (death). In my opinion, the only solution to our insignificance is immortality and that's not going to happen anytime soon so...[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="thegerg"] What has led you to the conclusion that simply because we have evolved means that we have no purpose?xscrapzx
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]i am making the judgement that i am not deceiving my self, that i do indeed have purpose, and that purpose has value. Stavrogin_That's subjective value, as i said before:
Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.Stavrogin_Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. What does it matter what our purpose is within practically infinite space? I mean honestly you could say that about everything including the space itself. Does it really have to be that big? At the end of the day if you say life is meaningless then the space serves no purpose. so therefore the Sun and this solar system is meaningless. Same goes for the galaxy and hence the rest of the space that surrounds it.
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]i am making the judgement that i am not deceiving my self, that i do indeed have purpose, and that purpose has value. Stavrogin_That's subjective value, as i said before:
Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.Stavrogin_Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. Don't worry, teenage nihilism only lasts so long. For most people, anyway
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]That's subjective value, as i said before:[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.xaosBasically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. Don't worry, teenage nihilism only lasts so long. For most people, anywayToo bad i'm not a teenager then. :P
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]i am making the judgement that i am not deceiving my self, that i do indeed have purpose, and that purpose has value. Stavrogin_That's subjective value, as i said before:
Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.Stavrogin_Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. there is no such thing as an objective valuation as a valuation is always measured against an arbitrary set of metrics. observations can be a lot more objective as there is no concluding point no judgement, but even these more times than not get spoiled and tainted by the views of the recorder with out the intent of such.
you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?
Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. there is no such thing as an objective valuation as a valuation is always measured against an arbitrary set of metrics. observations can be a lot more objective as there is no concluding point no judgement, but even these more times than not get spoiled and tainted by the views of the recorder with out the intent of such.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]That's subjective value, as i said before:[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.surrealnumber5
you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?
Based on the universe. That's why i said in comparison with the universe.[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]there is no such thing as an objective valuation as a valuation is always measured against an arbitrary set of metrics. observations can be a lot more objective as there is no concluding point no judgement, but even these more times than not get spoiled and tainted by the views of the recorder with out the intent of such.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"] Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. Stavrogin_
you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?
Based on the universe. That's why i said in comparison with the universe. and you valued the universe at? using what impartial metrics so as to keep your objectivity?Basically, you can give meaning and purpose to your life as much as you want, but in this unconscious universe we are devoid of any objective value. Really, what would change if our planet were to be obliterated tomorrow? Nothing, the universe would continue to exist as before. Stavrogin_there is no such thing as an objective valuation as a valuation is always measured against an arbitrary set of metrics. observations can be a lot more objective as there is no concluding point no judgement, but even these more times than not get spoiled and tainted by the views of the recorder with out the intent of such.
you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?
Based on the universe. That's why i said in comparison with the universe. Ok if you are comparing the universe which gave us life, than what is the universe's purpose? I mean because after all it did create us which in your eyes is absolutely meaningless and serves no purpose what so ever.Based on the universe. That's why i said in comparison with the universe. and you valued the universe at? using what impartial metrics so as to keep your objectivity?What the heck? Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] there is no such thing as an objective valuation as a valuation is always measured against an arbitrary set of metrics. observations can be a lot more objective as there is no concluding point no judgement, but even these more times than not get spoiled and tainted by the views of the recorder with out the intent of such.
you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?
surrealnumber5
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]and you valued the universe at? using what impartial metrics so as to keep your objectivity?What the heck? Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. not at all, it is a serious question, i wish to know how you made this objective valuation, what were your metrics, i would give some examples as to what kind of metrics might be applicable but those would all be subjective metrics as it would be what i saw of value. i want to know what this objective valuation of the universe is based on.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Based on the universe. That's why i said in comparison with the universe.Stavrogin_
What the heck? Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. not at all, it is a serious question, i wish to know how you made this objective valuation, what were your metrics, i would give some examples as to what kind of metrics might be applicable but those would all be subjective metrics as it would be what i saw of value. i want to know what this objective valuation of the universe is based on.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] and you valued the universe at? using what impartial metrics so as to keep your objectivity?
surrealnumber5
1. Size. We are living on a planet that orbits a dwarf star which is only a tiny speck in our galaxy that has about 400 billion stars. And there are billions, possibly trillions of galaxies. So, we are creatures living on a tiny speck that orbits a tiny speck that is situated on a tiny speck.
2. The universe isn't somehow conscious and only functions through the laws of physics, which means the universe itself has no ultimate purpose.
3. We are a product of evolution and that explains everything i think. We are here by chance, if the circumstances were slightly different, there probably would be no humans. Evolution also doesn't have an ultimate purpose either, it's only a mechanism. Adaptation through mutation and natural selection.
There are more, but three are enough for now in my opinion.
not at all, it is a serious question, i wish to know how you made this objective valuation, what were your metrics, i would give some examples as to what kind of metrics might be applicable but those would all be subjective metrics as it would be what i saw of value. i want to know what this objective valuation of the universe is based on.[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]What the heck? Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.Stavrogin_
1. Size. We are living on a planet that orbits a dwarf star which is only a tiny speck in our galaxy that has about 400 billion stars. And there are billions, possibly trillions of galaxies. So, we are creatures living on a tiny speck that orbits a tiny speck that is situated on a tiny speck.value and scarcity go hand in hand, if anything we being exceptions would make us valued.
2. The universe isn't somehow conscious and only functions through the laws of physics, which means the universe itself has no ultimate purpose. based on what? the universe is not a single living entity and so it is meaning less are two completely different points not at all coinciding. AKA non sequitur
3. We are a product of evolution and that explains everything i think. We are here by chance, if the circumstances were slightly different, there probably would be no humans. Evolution also doesn't have an ultimate purpose either, it's only a mechanism. Adaptation through mutation and natural selection. evolution is absolute purpose, thing evolve to survive, there are winners and losers but to state something with an inherent objective is without purpose is wrong.
There are more, but three are enough for now in my opinion.
Because when you remove faith in the afterlife (which most of the times doesnt provide with 100% certainty), you know that this is the only thing you have (whether that is true or not pondering about all the possibilities or what have you).
Besides, there are good things about this life. Dont you think?
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] not at all, it is a serious question, i wish to know how you made this objective valuation, what were your metrics, i would give some examples as to what kind of metrics might be applicable but those would all be subjective metrics as it would be what i saw of value. i want to know what this objective valuation of the universe is based on.surrealnumber5
1. Size. We are living on a planet that orbits a dwarf star which is only a tiny speck in our galaxy that has about 400 billion stars. And there are billions, possibly trillions of galaxies. So, we are creatures living on a tiny speck that orbits a tiny speck that is situated on a tiny speck.value and scarcity go hand in hand, if anything we being exceptions would make us valued.
2. The universe isn't somehow conscious and only functions through the laws of physics, which means the universe itself has no ultimate purpose. based on what? the universe is not a single living entity and so it is meaning less are two completely different points not at all coinciding. AKA non sequitur
3. We are a product of evolution and that explains everything i think. We are here by chance, if the circumstances were slightly different, there probably would be no humans. Evolution also doesn't have an ultimate purpose either, it's only a mechanism. Adaptation through mutation and natural selection. evolution is absolute purpose, thing evolve to survive, there are winners and losers but to state something with an inherent objective is without purpose is wrong.
There are more, but three are enough for now in my opinion.
These three "refutations" have nothing to do with i'm trying to say over here. Nevermind. Purpose has to have value (an objective one, not subjective) but it doesn't. For us to have objective value and meaning as you claim, something would have to change with our demise, we should have to have an impact don't you agree? Things that you value have an impact on you once they're gone. What would change if we are gone? Nothing. And it is because the universe is uncaring i say that searching for purpose in a random universe is absurd. However, you can always be an existentialist like me, and give yourself a subjective purpose in life (whether it's wealth, love or fun) because a man has to have something to go on for in life. As long as you admit that life has no objective value or meaning, it will make you more aware in my opinion.These three "refutations" have nothing to do with i'm trying to say over here. Nevermind. Purpose has to have value (an objective one, not subjective) but it doesn't. For us to have objective value and meaning as you claim, something would have to change with our demise, we should have to have an impact don't you agree? Things that you value have an impact on you once they're gone. What would change if we are gone? Nothing. And it is because the universe is uncaring i say that searching for purpose in a random universe is absurd. However, you can always be an existentialist like me, and give yourself a subjective purpose in life (whether it's wealth, love or fun) because a man has to have something to go on for in life. As long as you admit that life has no objective value or meaning, it will make you more aware in my opinion. i have not claimed what you say i have, i am still waiting on objective valuation metrics. and subjective valuations are not objective valuation metrics. i am still waiting on you to conclude without making a judgement. i am waiting for you to show your valuation and for said valuations to be free of any bias or prejudice caused by personal feelings[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
1. Size. We are living on a planet that orbits a dwarf star which is only a tiny speck in our galaxy that has about 400 billion stars. And there are billions, possibly trillions of galaxies. So, we are creatures living on a tiny speck that orbits a tiny speck that is situated on a tiny speck.value and scarcity go hand in hand, if anything we being exceptions would make us valued.
2. The universe isn't somehow conscious and only functions through the laws of physics, which means the universe itself has no ultimate purpose. based on what? the universe is not a single living entity and so it is meaning less are two completely different points not at all coinciding. AKA non sequitur
3. We are a product of evolution and that explains everything i think. We are here by chance, if the circumstances were slightly different, there probably would be no humans. Evolution also doesn't have an ultimate purpose either, it's only a mechanism. Adaptation through mutation and natural selection. evolution is absolute purpose, thing evolve to survive, there are winners and losers but to state something with an inherent objective is without purpose is wrong.
There are more, but three are enough for now in my opinion.
Stavrogin_
These three "refutations" have nothing to do with i'm trying to say over here. Nevermind. Purpose has to have value (an objective one, not subjective) but it doesn't. For us to have objective value and meaning as you claim, something would have to change with our demise, we should have to have an impact don't you agree? Things that you value have an impact on you once they're gone. What would change if we are gone? Nothing. And it is because the universe is uncaring i say that searching for purpose in a random universe is absurd. However, you can always be an existentialist like me, and give yourself a subjective purpose in life (whether it's wealth, love or fun) because a man has to have something to go on for in life. As long as you admit that life has no objective value or meaning, it will make you more aware in my opinion. i have not claimed what you say i have, i am still waiting on objective valuation metrics. and subjective valuations are not objective valuation metrics. i am still waiting on you to conclude without making a judgement. i am waiting for you to show your valuation and for said valuations to be free of any bias or prejudice caused by personal feelingsI don't know how the fact that we are very insignificant by size, the fact that we live in an unconscious and uncaring universe, the fact that we are here by chance are influenced by personal feelings?! And you also made a rookie mistake, evolution has no purpose. Evolution is only a mechanism, adaptation through random mutations that are filtered by natural selections and chance (climate changes, natural disasters). It has no goal. And we are a product of it.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]
surrealnumber5
One would think one would have to have an omnipotent knowledge of the entire universe to have some sort of understanding of the impact we as a planet have in/on it. Maybe the radio-waves we send out into space have resulted in an alien species who live on aural imput evolving super-fast over the past 100 years, or maybe we're a nursey planet from where - once we reach the right level of evolution - everyone will be shipped somewhere to man the great universe cleaning machine, or maybe we have no impact on the rest of the universe whatsoever.
Assuming the latter is still assuming however. As it is we as living creatures have cognitive thoughts that seperate us from the average bear such as empathy, jealousy and a desire to make things pretty as well as practical. You can argue that in the grand scheme of things there is no point to our existence but that's rather pedantic and narrow-minded considering we are not ethereal beings.
Nobody said we as individuals need to make an impact on the universe. The fact that we can't doesn't negate the fact that our lives can have and provide significant meaning to other human being which, after all, is the audience we should be trying to captivate and interact with.
Similarly to us a single ant might seem entirely inconsequential but that particular ant might be the life and soul of the anthill for all we really know.
[QUOTE="metroidfood"]
[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]
What is so great about this world that makes people want to fight to live so badly?
mmmwksil
Five Guys Burgers and Fries
I hear much about these Five Guys and their burgers :o Are they really that tasty?
The fries are meh. The burgers are amazing.I've given you three and you've denied them, so we can[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]i have not claimed what you say i have, i am still waiting on objective valuation metrics. and subjective valuations are not objective valuation metrics. i am still waiting on you to conclude without making a judgement. i am waiting for you to show your valuation and for said valuations to be free of any bias or prejudice caused by personal feelingsI don't know how the fact that we are very insignificant by size, the fact that we live in an unconscious and uncaring universe, the fact that we are here by chance are influenced by personal feelings?! And you also made a rookie mistake, evolution has no purpose. Evolution is only a mechanism, adaptation through random mutations that are filtered by natural selections and chance (climate changes, natural disasters). It has no goal. And we are a product of it. what makes size, universal consciousness and chance applicable to our value? a mechanism, adaption, no purpose? evolution is adaption, that is its purpose, not everything changes for the better but that does not mean that evolution has no purpose. evolving is a purpose. continuing is a purpose, you may try to strip purpose from purpose but all things evolved purely to propagate its self. life has inherent purpose, it being chanced into being does not mean it being is any less important, and if you want to talk about chance, chances are in favor for life not against it. on the scale of the universe life is not a chance, there being life is an absolute.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]These three "refutations" have nothing to do with i'm trying to say over here. Nevermind. Purpose has to have value (an objective one, not subjective) but it doesn't. For us to have objective value and meaning as you claim, something would have to change with our demise, we should have to have an impact don't you agree? Things that you value have an impact on you once they're gone. What would change if we are gone? Nothing. And it is because the universe is uncaring i say that searching for purpose in a random universe is absurd. However, you can always be an existentialist like me, and give yourself a subjective purpose in life (whether it's wealth, love or fun) because a man has to have something to go on for in life. As long as you admit that life has no objective value or meaning, it will make you more aware in my opinion.
Stavrogin_
what makes size, universal consciousness and chance applicable to our value? a mechanism, adaption, no purpose? evolution is adaption, that is its purpose, not everything changes for the better but that does not mean that evolution has no purpose. evolving is a purpose. continuing is a purposesurrealnumber5No, you see, evolution is the name given to a bunch of random things happening in nature and therefore it must have no purpose. Also if we live in an unconscious and uncaring universe then we don't have an inherent meaning or purpose.
life has inherent purpose, it being chanced into being does not mean it being is any less important, and if you want to talk about chance, chances are in favor for life not against it. on the scale of the universe life is not a chance, there being life is an absolute.I never said chances are against life... If the conditions were different humans would probably never evolved they way they did, that's why i said we humans are here by chance. And you said "life has inherent purpose". What's that purpose then?surrealnumber5
No, you see, evolution is the name given to a bunch of random things happening in nature and therefore it must have no purpose. Also if we live in an unconscious and uncaring difference then we don't have an inherent meaning or purpose.[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] what makes size, universal consciousness and chance applicable to our value? a mechanism, adaption, no purpose? evolution is adaption, that is its purpose, not everything changes for the better but that does not mean that evolution has no purpose. evolving is a purpose. continuing is a purposeStavrogin_
life has inherent purpose, it being chanced into being does not mean it being is any less important, and if you want to talk about chance, chances are in favor for life not against it. on the scale of the universe life is not a chance, there being life is an absolute.I never said chances are against life... If the conditions were different humans would probably never evolved they way they did, that's why i said we humans are here by chance. And you said "life has inherent purpose". What's that purpose then? the purpose of life is to create more life. even if it doesn't know it's its purpose.surrealnumber5
I never said chances are against life... If the conditions were different humans would probably never evolved they way they did, that's why i said we humans are here by chance. And you said "life has inherent purpose". What's that purpose then? the purpose of life is to create more life. even if it doesn't know it's its purpose. yes, to propagate over and over again, and even when we fail it is our job as life to try again and again. i think evolution has failed, because i have learned ways to have all of the fun of propagation only without the actual creation of offspring. this discovery may vary well be the end of my branch, a sad thought.[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]No, you see, evolution is the name given to a bunch of random things happening in nature and therefore it must have no purpose. Also if we live in an unconscious and uncaring difference then we don't have an inherent meaning or purpose.[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]life has inherent purpose, it being chanced into being does not mean it being is any less important, and if you want to talk about chance, chances are in favor for life not against it. on the scale of the universe life is not a chance, there being life is an absolute.
comp_atkins
"And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
Don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."
"I never said I was frightened of dying."
that about sums up my feelings.
[QUOTE="fastesttruck"]b/c why should death be any better than life? [QUOTE="DigitalExile"]bra doesn't have an h in it... Hey brah, haters gonna hate. :P Nope. Just trying to get people to spell bra right. Kinda like the people that say "I could care less" when they really should be saying "I couldn't care less"Exisiting is all we have, brah. Can't not exist, now can we?
parkurtommo
It is easy to say you're not frightened of something when you have not encountered it yet. You may say that now, but when you come close to death I bet you will be thinking differently."And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
Don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."
"I never said I was frightened of dying."that about sums up my feelings.
Serraph105
It's all around us, people going to extreme measures to just save their life and for what? What is so great about this world that makes people want to fight to live so badly? We all know that we are gonna die eventually, so whats the point?
whitetiger3521
Genetic programming. Self preservation is our primary directive. Almost every thing we do from sex, food, friends, work are all things we do to ensure survival or at least make it easier.
It is always sad when you see someone about to be executed and they just have a calm look on their face because there is nothing they can do. The sadam execution video is pretty sad, he is a horrible man but it must be the worst feeling to have a nuse put around your neck and then a bag over your head.
It is easy to say you're not frightened of something when you have not encountered it yet. You may say that now, but when you come close to death I bet you will be thinking differently. ....you know I'm quoting a song right?[QUOTE="Serraph105"]
"And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
Don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."
"I never said I was frightened of dying."that about sums up my feelings.
SF_KiLLaMaN
It's an instinct we're born with...
It is easy to say you're not frightened of something when you have not encountered it yet. You may say that now, but when you come close to death I bet you will be thinking differently. ....you know I'm quoting a song right? Well you did say "That about sums up my feelings" Which leads me to believe you think the same thing. Or is that also part of the song?[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]
[QUOTE="Serraph105"]
"And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
Don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."
"I never said I was frightened of dying."that about sums up my feelings.
Serraph105
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