Why do we need proof to believe in god?

[QUOTE="dog64"]

Obviously, anything we can see, touch, smell, and taste are real.But, since we can't do any of that with god, there has to be something else to prove to yourself that he exists. For example, if you're a Christian, you would see the universe itself as well as life itself as evidence of a creator. Some people wouldn't see it as evidence, but you as a Christian would because it makes sense to you. The real question is, do you want god to exist? If you don't, you'll reject any "evidence" that comes your way.

Jocubus

I was basically referring to physical objects. Hallucinations, dreams, and the like are creations of our brain. That's another subject. If you simple think of something, even if it really happened, it's still a fantasy because it's not happening now. Still, in a way, it's still real because your mind is creating the thought, illusion, ect.

We don't its about faith. Personnaly i see no loss in beleiving in god because ever since i confessed that i do my overall outlook on life has been strangely positive.

I once walked into a public restroom. And there was poop on the ceiling right above the urinal.

Yes, on the ceiling.

POOP. ON. THE. CEILING.

It's quite clear what happened. Somebody THREW poop onto the ceiling (possibly mixing it with something in order to get it to stick better) in the hopes that someone would walk up to the urinal and have a piece of poop fall on top of his head.

You're young, so I'll forgive you for not realizing it yet, but people are ****ing disgusting.

MrGeezer

You can't prove something that's in your gut, and you don't have to.A_Tarkovsky

Jesus lives in my guts since when?

Oh well I guess I will put something else in my heart instead

Because then I may as well believe in santa or the giant spaghetti monster.Film-Guy

Then do it. No ones stopping you.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]Because then I may as well believe in santa or the giant spaghetti monster.123625

Then do it. No ones stopping you.

Maybe I will:evil:

You can believe whatever you want to believe in. It's me who needs evidence to believe in something. Just like if you told me that you're a chicken, I would need to see some eggs before I would believe you.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

If I told you I was an alien posting on GS from my spaceship, you would want proof, wouldn't you?

Some people believe that if they can touch it, feel it, smell it, or see it, that it's real. Anything else they would want concrete evidence to believe.

sarmini

It's refreshing to read that. Someone who believes but keeps open the possibility that it may not be. It gets so tiring to see people speak with such conviction that what they believe to be right, whether it be creationism vs evolution and so on. I myself believe in a creator (albeit an impersonal one; I tend towards naturalistic pantheism), that came to allow evolution to happen. A bit of both I suppose. Could it be wrong? Of course.

It's great to see someone that admits the same that's on the opposite side of the fence. I've always believed that only those who are truly faithful ever question it, no matter their belief.

i fully believe there is a god..so what if there isnt any proof

many people still believe in having a soul

[QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]Because then I may as well believe in santa or the giant spaghetti monster.Film-Guy

Then do it. No ones stopping you.

Maybe I will:evil:

have you started to beleive in the mystical being that is the flying spaghetti monster yet?

i fully believe there is a god..so what if there isnt any proof

many people still believe in having a soul

NSR34GTR

Wouldnt go as far as to say there is no proof.

You don't,if they choose to shut themselves away from god then there really are no better than the devil himself,who decided to shut himself away from god and turn on him.

This is why i consider the majority of scientists to be heretics,constantly desiring knowledge of the unknown,it's the very reason why we're born into original sin,because Eve and Adam couldn't resist their temptations for the tree of knowledge,because they sought out to be like god,to play god (Scientists).

The sooner you open yourself to god,the sooner you can walk the right path in life.

Oh and isn't Jesus the ultimate evidence to support this? There is so much history behind him,i don't understand how you can't believe in him,people didn't just make Jesus up for a laugh,he was real,you think back to those times,when people also didn't believe in god,so god gave them special attributes,such as moses being able to draw water from stone,Jesus being able to heal the wounded and infected.

You can't just ignore all of that...

If I told somebody that I was a god, their response would (eventually) be: "Where's your proof?".
Why should it be different with any other 'god'?

I mean, there's just as much proof that I'm a god than there is that, say, the Christian god exists (ie. none).

If I told somebody that I was a god, their response would (eventually) be: "Where's your proof?".
Why should it be different with any other 'god'?

I mean, there's just as much proof that I'm a god than there is that, say, the Christian god exists (ie. none).

Planeforger

How do you know? You can't know what constitutes proof for each individual person.:|

Oh and isn't Jesus the ultimate evidence to support this? There is so much history behind him,i don't understand how you can't believe in him,people didn't just make Jesus up for a laugh,he was real

blacktorn

As far as I'm aware, the only historical source that mentions Jesus (and was written within his lifetime) is the New Testament, which was written by his best friends - meaning that it isn't reliable (in the same way that, for example, Communist historians' views on Lenin are hardly reliable).

I wouldn't say that Jesus didn't exist, but there's no reliable proof that he did - and either way, there's still no reliable proof that he's the son of god.
Messiahs were extremely common back then - Jesus (and Christianity) just got lucky enough to be supported by Constantine and the Roman Empire.

you think back to those times,when people also didn't believe in god,so god gave them special attributes,such as moses being able to draw water from stone,Jesus being able to heal the wounded and infected. blacktorn

This is why i consider the majority of scientists to be heretics,constantly desiring knowledge of the unknown,it's the very reason why we're born into original sin,because Eve and Adam couldn't resist their temptations for the tree of knowledge,because they sought out to be like god,to play god (Scientists).

blacktorn

if you apply this thinking where God is the government it seems bad somehow.

You do not need proof to believe in anything... it's all faith. Some, like myself, choose not to believe, but we should all (sadly, most don't) learn to respect each others beliefs.instantdeath999

This is possibly the best post to come out of any religion thread.

Whenever I talk to people about religion, they always ask me "what proof is there that god does exist?" Why do I need proof to say "I believe in god?"monkeytoes61

I--I don't know... ..LJ! Why do I need proof to believe in God?

You dont need proof to belive in sumthing. Think about it like this . A chiken lays an egg. But the chicken hatched from an egg. So which came first? theres no proof a chicken came first or that an egg came first but we do know one thing they exist so one had to come first. My point is something had to have not been created by sumthing else, or else we wouldnt be alive. Something or Someone has been alive forever.

[QUOTE="blacktorn"]

Oh and isn't Jesus the ultimate evidence to support this? There is so much history behind him,i don't understand how you can't believe in him,people didn't just make Jesus up for a laugh,he was real

Planeforger

As far as I'm aware, the only historical source that mentions Jesus (and was written within his lifetime) is the New Testament, which was written by his best friends - meaning that it isn't reliable (in the same way that, for example, Communist historians' views on Lenin are hardly reliable).

I wouldn't say that Jesus didn't exist, but there's no reliable proof that he did - and either way, there's still no reliable proof that he's the son of god.
Messiahs were extremely common back then - Jesus (and Christianity) just got lucky enough to be supported by Constantine and the Roman Empire.

you think back to those times,when people also didn't believe in god,so god gave them special attributes,such as moses being able to draw water from stone,Jesus being able to heal the wounded and infected. blacktorn

So...why hasn't anything like that happened in the last 2000 years? Also, why isn't there any reliable historical evidence of any of these people actually existing, or doing the deeds that they supposedly did?

The story of Jesus wouldn't of been passed down for the past 2000 years if it didn't happen now would it? Jesus's disciples were not the only people to have met Jesus,they didn't make up all the people he met in the bible,why would they make up the miracles he performed? Word would of gotten around about Jesus,because others had witnessed him and the good work he was doing,there is no other reason for the story to of been passed down.

As for the reason for god not giving people special attributes now is because those were the times before/of Jesus,there is no reason to prove anything after Jesus death because he is/was the ultimate proof.The whole reason for the disciples accounting his entire life is to tell the tale after he passed away,so that we would always remember him,what do you want as proof,a video or photo?

You obviously don't need proof to believe in him...but don't expect me to believe in such a thing without proof. I won't throw away my intellectual dignity that easy.

[QUOTE="blacktorn"]

This is why i consider the majority of scientists to be heretics,constantly desiring knowledge of the unknown,it's the very reason why we're born into original sin,because Eve and Adam couldn't resist their temptations for the tree of knowledge,because they sought out to be like god,to play god (Scientists).

Hewkii

if you apply this thinking where God is the government it seems bad somehow.

No i'm applying it to the commandment 'thou shalt have no other gods before me',god>people

Besides god gave us life,the least we can do is abide some of his rules,which adam and eve were unable to do,hence they were punished.

Whenever I talk to people about religion, they always ask me "what proof is there that god does exist?" Why do I need proof to say "I believe in god?"monkeytoes61

Because you need proof to believe in anything else, how come god gets a pass?

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]Whenever I talk to people about religion, they always ask me "what proof is there that god does exist?" Why do I need proof to say "I believe in god?"rinkegekido2110

Because you need proof to believe in anything else, how come god gets a pass?

So you don't believe anything your family or friend ever tell you unless they come up with evidence,that suggests you don't believe anything anyone says,as word of mouth isn't evidence.

[QUOTE="rinkegekido2110"]

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]Whenever I talk to people about religion, they always ask me "what proof is there that god does exist?" Why do I need proof to say "I believe in god?"blacktorn

Because you need proof to believe in anything else, how come god gets a pass?

So you don't believe anything your family or friend ever tell you unless they come up with evidence,that suggests you don't believe anything anyone says,as word of mouth isn't evidence.

No, I don't take word of mouth alone as evidence. If it comes from a proven reliable source, verifying it isn't a top priority, but I make a point to search out for myself rather than blindly accepting what someone else says.

[QUOTE="blacktorn"][QUOTE="rinkegekido2110"]

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]Whenever I talk to people about religion, they always ask me "what proof is there that god does exist?" Why do I need proof to say "I believe in god?"rinkegekido2110

Because you need proof to believe in anything else, how come god gets a pass?

So you don't believe anything your family or friend ever tell you unless they come up with evidence,that suggests you don't believe anything anyone says,as word of mouth isn't evidence.

No, I don't take word of mouth alone as evidence. If it comes from a proven reliable source, verifying it isn't a top priority, but I make a point to search out for myself rather than blindly accepting what someone else says.

So you don't believe anything anyone says whatsoever? Sounds to me like you have a problem trusting people,guess i could see why you wouldn't believe anything the bible has to offer also.

[QUOTE="rinkegekido2110"][QUOTE="blacktorn"][QUOTE="rinkegekido2110"]

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]Whenever I talk to people about religion, they always ask me "what proof is there that god does exist?" Why do I need proof to say "I believe in god?"blacktorn

Because you need proof to believe in anything else, how come god gets a pass?

So you don't believe anything your family or friend ever tell you unless they come up with evidence,that suggests you don't believe anything anyone says,as word of mouth isn't evidence.

No, I don't take word of mouth alone as evidence. If it comes from a proven reliable source, verifying it isn't a top priority, but I make a point to search out for myself rather than blindly accepting what someone else says.

So you don't believe anything anyone says whatsoever? Sounds to me like you have a problem trusting people,guess i could see why you wouldn't believe anything the bible has to offer also.

Like I said, if information comes from a proven reliable source, then I'm willing to accept it without too much interrigation. Otherwise, I need some kind of proof before I'll accept something as "true". As for the bible, why would I believe some old book that full of contridictions and (at times) outright falsehoods?

The story of Jesus wouldn't of been passed down for the past 2000 years if it didn't happen now would it? Jesus's disciples were not the only people to have met Jesus,they didn't make up all the people he met in the bible,why would they make up the miracles he performed? Word would of gotten around about Jesus,because others had witnessed him and the good work he was doing,there is no other reason for the story to of been passed down.blacktorn

Well it being true or not has nothing to do with the likelyhood of it being passed down. Wich is very questionable. I mean if this guy was so great. Why wasn't he mentioned anywhere else? Someone with his talents would have been bigger than Elvis.

Then again i think he only was false messiah number 19744. So the people didn't notice or care about his presence at all.

[QUOTE="blacktorn"]The story of Jesus wouldn't of been passed down for the past 2000 years if it didn't happen now would it? Jesus's disciples were not the only people to have met Jesus,they didn't make up all the people he met in the bible,why would they make up the miracles he performed? Word would of gotten around about Jesus,because others had witnessed him and the good work he was doing,there is no other reason for the story to of been passed down._Tobli_

Well it being true or not has nothing to do with the likelyhood of it being passed down. Wich is very questionable. I mean if this guy was so great. Why wasn't he mentioned anywhere else? Someone with his talents would have been bigger than Elvis.

Then again i think he only was false messiah number 19744. So the people didn't notice or care about his presence at all.

I'm pretty sure more people know the name of Jesus than elvis,and besides they didn't have the kind of methods of transport we have today,so word would of gotten around slowly,nor the mediums of television ect.

It seems sad to me that people only take notice of the bible or start to believe in god/Jesus when there lying on their death bed,because you want to believe you/your partner/family member or whoever goes to a better place after they die.Just think about what happens to you when you die for a minute,do you honestly want to ignore the bible's teaching,and therefore god and risk spending all eternity in hell?The bible has so much to offer,but people ignore it because they choose not to believe,weather that reason be because of arrogance or because they feel they have no need to follow it,i'm sure if you were living in a 3rd world country or somewhere where you don't have the niceties of the urban world,you would start believing.

Don't waste your life on vain pursuits,use it wisely,follow what the bible has to say and you will lead a richer and fuller life.The bible can make you a better person in so many ways.Don't shut out god...the one who created you.

Mmm ok i realise I'm starting to sound like a preacher now,but i think we're blinded by the material world most of us live in.This world wasn't supposed to be an easy ride,we're all so obsessed with living as easy as we can,while others suffer,just take the bible in context of today's world and it holds the keys to the right answers,ok so lets just say you don't believe or ever believe in god,at least take time to see what the bible teaches you.

there lying on their death bed,because you want to believe you/your partner/family member or whoever goes to a better place after they die.Just think about what happens to you when you die for a minute,do you honestly want to ignore the bible's teaching,and therefore god and risk spending all eternity in hell?blacktorn

Transportation? What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about other people writing about the actions of this messiah.

Hell in the original bible just means that you die, and nothing happens after that. It's just being away from God.

[QUOTE="_Tobli_"]

[QUOTE="blacktorn"]The story of Jesus wouldn't of been passed down for the past 2000 years if it didn't happen now would it? Jesus's disciples were not the only people to have met Jesus,they didn't make up all the people he met in the bible,why would they make up the miracles he performed? Word would of gotten around about Jesus,because others had witnessed him and the good work he was doing,there is no other reason for the story to of been passed down.blacktorn

Well it being true or not has nothing to do with the likelyhood of it being passed down. Wich is very questionable. I mean if this guy was so great. Why wasn't he mentioned anywhere else? Someone with his talents would have been bigger than Elvis.

Then again i think he only was false messiah number 19744. So the people didn't notice or care about his presence at all.

I'm pretty sure more people know the name of Jesus than elvis,and besides they didn't have the kind of methods of transport we have today,so word would of gotten around slowly,nor the mediums of television ect.

It seems sad to me that people only take notice of the bible or start to believe in god/Jesus when there lying on their death bed,because you want to believe you/your partner/family member or whoever goes to a better place after they die.Just think about what happens to you when you die for a minute,do you honestly want to ignore the bible's teaching,and therefore god and risk spending all eternity in hell?The bible has so much to offer,but people ignore it because they choose not to believe,weather that reason be because of arrogance or because they feel they have no need to follow it,i'm sure if you were living in a 3rd world country or somewhere where you don't have the niceties of the urban world,you would start believing.

Don't waste your life on vain pursuits,use it wisely,follow what the bible has to say and you will lead a richer and fuller life.The bible can make you a better person in so many ways.Don't shut out god...the one who created you.

Like Tobli says, believing in something doesn't make it so, and there are plenty of stories that get passed on without being true. And for following the bible, have you critcally read the book? I for one wouldn't want to live like that. Here's something from Jesus:

JESUS ON GENTILES, WHOM TO HEAL (part 1) - Matthew 10:5-8
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons."

No healing for non-jews? That's not fair at all!

So thats how religion hasnt been destroyed yet....
If anyonetries to explain the unrealistic-ness of a giant old dude sitting on a cloud, theyll just counter with

I dont need proof.



X:There is this big Alien dude hanging around in my room.
Y: I dont need proof, ill just believe you, but how do you know its an alien?
X: I dont need proof about that, ill just believeKoba123

Precisely, religion pushes faith as a virtue to short-circut any dissent. That's one of the reasons why I rail against it.

[QUOTE="blacktorn"]there lying on their death bed,because you want to believe you/your partner/family member or whoever goes to a better place after they die.Just think about what happens to you when you die for a minute,do you honestly want to ignore the bible's teaching,and therefore god and risk spending all eternity in hell?_Tobli_

Transportation? What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about other people talking about the actions of this messiah.

Hell in the original bible just means that you die, and nothing happens after that. It's just being away from God.

Well someone living in England for example isn't likely going to know about Jesus are they? Not until word gets around,and that would have to happen through people who would travel there. Which would probs take decades if not century's to happen.

As for hell,the whole point of hell is to suffer for your actions and consequences you've made on earth,you sin then you should pay the price,but you make it sound like there's nothing wrong with going there,which is just absurd,there are many many passages that state hell is a place of pain and suffering,i wouldn;t like to take my chances and ignore them...would you?

Now i don't really like to believe such a place exists and i believe god should show mercy and forgive everyone,but the fact that the bible mentions the word hell once is more than enough to surely make you alter your ways?

After all what's a 100 years on earth compared to an eternity in hell?

[QUOTE="_Tobli_"][QUOTE="blacktorn"]there lying on their death bed,because you want to believe you/your partner/family member or whoever goes to a better place after they die.Just think about what happens to you when you die for a minute,do you honestly want to ignore the bible's teaching,and therefore god and risk spending all eternity in hell?blacktorn

Transportation? What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about other people talking about the actions of this messiah.

Hell in the original bible just means that you die, and nothing happens after that. It's just being away from God.

Well someone living in England for example isn't likely going to know about Jesus are they? Not until word gets around,and that would have to happen through people who would travel there. Which would probs take decades if not century's to happen.

As for hell,the whole point of hell is to suffer for your actions and consequences you've made on earth,you sin then you should pay the price,but you make it sound like there's nothing wrong with going there,which is just absurd,there are many many passages that state hell is a place of pain and suffering,i wouldn;t like to take my chances and ignore them...would you?

Now i don't really like to believe such a place exists and i believe god should show mercy and forgive everyone,but the fact that the bible mentions the word hell once is more than enough to surely make you alter your ways?

An omnibenevolent, omnipotent god has no need to punish sin. It could simply create beings who could not disobey, foregoing the need for a "hell". If it exists, then any reasonable person would say that it's at least incompetent, and just might not care what happens as long as it gets some laughs out of it.

[QUOTE="Koba123"]So thats how religion hasnt been destroyed yet....
If anyonetries to explain the unrealistic-ness of a giant old dude sitting on a cloud, theyll just counter with

I dont need proof.



X:There is this big Alien dude hanging around in my room.
Y: I dont need proof, ill just believe you, but how do you know its an alien?
X: I dont need proof about that, ill just believerinkegekido2110

Precisely, religion pushes faith as a virtue to short-circut any dissent. That's one of the reasons why I rail against it.

Since when was Repentance a bad thing? If you feel bad about something that's your conscience calling you out,you shouldn't be arrogant and ignore it,which is a sin in-itself.

because no god is existed in this world......johnchan3

LOL

That's a good point.

[QUOTE="blacktorn"][QUOTE="_Tobli_"][QUOTE="blacktorn"]there lying on their death bed,because you want to believe you/your partner/family member or whoever goes to a better place after they die.Just think about what happens to you when you die for a minute,do you honestly want to ignore the bible's teaching,and therefore god and risk spending all eternity in hell?rinkegekido2110

Transportation? What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about other people talking about the actions of this messiah.

Hell in the original bible just means that you die, and nothing happens after that. It's just being away from God.

Well someone living in England for example isn't likely going to know about Jesus are they? Not until word gets around,and that would have to happen through people who would travel there. Which would probs take decades if not century's to happen.

As for hell,the whole point of hell is to suffer for your actions and consequences you've made on earth,you sin then you should pay the price,but you make it sound like there's nothing wrong with going there,which is just absurd,there are many many passages that state hell is a place of pain and suffering,i wouldn;t like to take my chances and ignore them...would you?

Now i don't really like to believe such a place exists and i believe god should show mercy and forgive everyone,but the fact that the bible mentions the word hell once is more than enough to surely make you alter your ways?

An omnibenevolent, omnipotent god has no need to punish sin. It could simply create beings who could not disobey, foregoing the need for a "hell". If it exists, then any reasonable person would say that it's at least incompetent, and just might not care what happens as long as it gets some laughs out of it.

But Adam and Eve did disobey god,they suffered and we're the suffering children of them.Therefore we're born into original sin,so we should spend out lives on repentance not waste it on vain ambitions,such as seeking the knowledge of the unknown (scientists).They are trying to heal the problems of the world with the very problem that cause the world we live in today,the thirst for knowledge.We're just going round an endless circle of sin it seems.