WWII Vet Writes to Obama. I think You all oughta read this.

[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]But one need not be a member of any Christian denomination to be included in this nation. I'm not Christian, I've never been a Christian, and much of my family here in the U.S. isn't Christian, and yet if you were to inquire about the nationality of these non-Christian family members of mine and my own nationality, you'd discover that we are all Americans. theone86

If you want to talk about teh common ideals that make us part of teh same nation, then why aren't you talking about the ideals which the Constitution provides that all men are to be treated equally regardless of creed? They did not intend for this to be a Christian nation, they intended for it to be a secular one.

You need to reread the Constitution then as it is actually the Declaration of Indepencence that states all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their creator with inalienable rights. The Bill of Rights that was added to the Contitution guarentees us the freedom of religion.

Interesting thread. I get the sense that most people don't understand his major complaint....which is that Obama is putting the opinion, desires, whatever you wish to call it....over that of the American people, which he was elected to lead. You may disagree with that but there is evidence he has disrespected the people when he makes insulting comments about them. LJS9502_basic

Also, just because some of us think this man is spewing nonsense does not mean that we somehow missing some huge point.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Interesting thread. I get the sense that most people don't understand his major complaint....which is that Obama is putting the opinion, desires, whatever you wish to call it....over that of the American people, which he was elected to lead. You may disagree with that but there is evidence he has disrespected the people when he makes insulting comments about them. GreySeal9

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Interesting thread. I get the sense that most people don't understand his major complaint....which is that Obama is putting the opinion, desires, whatever you wish to call it....over that of the American people, which he was elected to lead. You may disagree with that but there is evidence he has disrespected the people when he makes insulting comments about them. LJS9502_basic

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

So what if he put down a law? That/=/insulting anyone.

As for the second comment, that's not what he said at all and is a complete misrepresentation. He said that America has been arrogant at times, which is true. If Americans take the truth as an insult, there's nothing he can do about that.

Almost everything in that letter is wrong from what I could tell. I would call out a gamespot user if I saw them say any of those things and he doesn't get a free pass just because he is 95.

Oh and for the people saying he has gut I have to say that it doesn't really take guts to send a letter when we all know we are protected by the first ammendment.

For the record though I do not wish ill on this man I just find his opinions on the president to be way off base.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="GrabTheYayo"]then their opinions should not be heard

GreySeal9

So by your own admission, your opinion should not be heard as it is different from others.

I'm cool with their opinion being heard, but the Tea Party have pretty typical far right opinions. I don't see what is so "different" about that.

Tell me what you think about those with MoveOn. Those with the Tea Party movement are no different than those with MoveOn and are just as far left as the Tea Party followers are of the far right. Supporters of both attack and defend each group vehemently though each group are no different than the other even they are on different sides of the political spectrum. If you want to attack one, then you need to attack both as both a fringe groups.

I commend his bravery and honestly, but I do not necessarily agree with himclayron

[QUOTE="Osaka-06"]It's yank-conservative filth bordeing on fascism. America is no longer the sole superpower and Obama is simply trying to adapt his country to this now global environment.SpartanMSU

Liberalism is closer to fascism buddy. R. E. A. D.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Interesting thread. I get the sense that most people don't understand his major complaint....which is that Obama is putting the opinion, desires, whatever you wish to call it....over that of the American people, which he was elected to lead. You may disagree with that but there is evidence he has disrespected the people when he makes insulting comments about them. LJS9502_basic

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

Almost everything in that letter is wrong from what I could tell. I would call out a gamespot user if I saw them say any of those things and he doesn't get a free pass just because he is 95.

Oh and for the people saying he has gut I have to say that it doesn't really take guts to send a letter when we all know we are protected by the first ammendment.

For the record though I do not wish ill on this man I just find his opinions on the president to be way off base.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

So by your own admission, your opinion should not be heard as it is different from others.

WhiteKnight77

I'm cool with their opinion being heard, but the Tea Party have pretty typical far right opinions. I don't see what is so "different" about that.

Tell me what you think about those with MoveOn. Those with the Tea Party movement are no different than those with MoveOn and are just as far left as the Tea Party followers are of the far right. Supporters of both attack and defend each group vehemently though each group are no different than the other even they are on different sides of the political spectrum. If you want to attack one, then you need to attack both as both a fringe groups.

We were talking about the Tea Party. Why do you expect me to bring up MoveOn when we weren't talking about them? That's unreasonable.

I don't deny that Move On is another noisy and irrtiating fringe political group, but we weren't talking about them. We were talking about the Tea Party.

However, I think Code Pink is a better comparison to the Tea Party movement.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Almost everything in that letter is wrong from what I could tell. I would call out a gamespot user if I saw them say any of those things and he doesn't get a free pass just because he is 95.

Oh and for the people saying he has gut I have to say that it doesn't really take guts to send a letter when we all know we are protected by the first ammendment.

For the record though I do not wish ill on this man I just find his opinions on the president to be way off base.

UT_Wrestler

Let's start with his ridiculous mispresentation of Obama's "arrogant" comment and his total misunderstanding of the logic Obama used when saying that we are not a Christian nation. Obama was saying that we are a nation of all faiths, which is true.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

I don't disagree with most of the letter, but we never were a Christian nation. This was why the freedom of religion was a part of the original Bill of Rights.

wstfld

I was referencing the quote. Obama supposedly said, "We're not a Christian nation anymore," thereby implying we were a Christian nation in the first place.

So what if he put down a law? That/=/insulting anyone.

As for the second comment, that's not what he said at all and is a complete misrepresentation. He said that America has been arrogant at times, which is true. If Americans take the truth as an insult, there's nothing he can do about that.

GreySeal9

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"][QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Almost everything in that letter is wrong from what I could tell. I would call out a gamespot user if I saw them say any of those things and he doesn't get a free pass just because he is 95.

Oh and for the people saying he has gut I have to say that it doesn't really take guts to send a letter when we all know we are protected by the first ammendment.

For the record though I do not wish ill on this man I just find his opinions on the president to be way off base.

Let's start with his ridiculous mispresentation of Obama's "arrogant" comment and his total misunderstanding of the logic Obama used when saying that we are not a Christian nation. Obama was saying that our nation has a secular basis, which is true.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"] Which part(s) of the letter do you deem "wrong"?UT_Wrestler

Let's start with his ridiculous mispresentation of Obama's "arrogant" comment and his total misunderstanding of the logic Obama used when saying that we are not a Christian nation. Obama was saying that our nation has a secular basis, which is true.

So what if it is predominately Christian? That doesn't mean that the majority=what we are. Are we a white nation as well?

Also, saying "fact" doesn't make your point any stronger.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Interesting thread. I get the sense that most people don't understand his major complaint....which is that Obama is putting the opinion, desires, whatever you wish to call it....over that of the American people, which he was elected to lead. You may disagree with that but there is evidence he has disrespected the people when he makes insulting comments about them. LJS9502_basic

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

So what if he put down a law? That/=/insulting anyone.

As for the second comment, that's not what he said at all and is a complete misrepresentation. He said that America has been arrogant at times, which is true. If Americans take the truth as an insult, there's nothing he can do about that.

LJS9502_basic

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

It's a terrible law and the President has every right to say so. And yes, we have been an arrogant nation. It's not the President's job to sugar coat things.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

QuistisTrepe_

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

So what if he put down a law? That/=/insulting anyone.

As for the second comment, that's not what he said at all and is a complete misrepresentation. He said that America has been arrogant at times, which is true. If Americans take the truth as an insult, there's nothing he can do about that.

worlock77

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

It's a terrible law and the President has every right to say so. And yes, we have been an arrogant nation. It's not the President's job to sugar coat things.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

So what if he put down a law? That/=/insulting anyone.

As for the second comment, that's not what he said at all and is a complete misrepresentation. He said that America has been arrogant at times, which is true. If Americans take the truth as an insult, there's nothing he can do about that.

LJS9502_basic

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

Why are you being so disingenuous?

Just because you want to interpret it as a insult to the state of Arizona for the purpose of your argument does not make it an actual insult or doesn't mean it was intended as one. What you think he shouldn't have done/=/an insult. If there was an insult, you would be able to demonstrate one without trying your hardest to find one.

You say being arrogant at times=arrogance and ignore the context behind the statement. Why are you trying so hard to ignore the differences between what he actually said and your black and white "he called America arrogant is France comment" that you tried to represent it as.

He told the truth with his statement. We have been arrogant. He did not insult the American people. He just told the truth about history. Why do you find the truth insulting?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

QuistisTrepe_

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

And what does this have to do with "insulting the American people".

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

So what if he put down a law? That/=/insulting anyone.

As for the second comment, that's not what he said at all and is a complete misrepresentation. He said that America has been arrogant at times, which is true. If Americans take the truth as an insult, there's nothing he can do about that.

GreySeal9

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

Why are you being so disingenuous?

Just because you want to interpret it as a insult to the state of Arizona for the purpose of your argument does not make it an actual insult or doesn't mean it was intended as one. What you think he shouldn't have done/=/an insult. If there was an insult, you would be able to demonstrate one without trying your hardest to find one.

You say being arrogant at times=arrogance and ignore the context behind the statement. Why are you trying so hard to ignore the differences between what he actually said and your black and white "he called America arrogant is France comment" that you tried to represent it as.

He told the truth with his statement. We have been arrogant. He did not insult the American people. He just told the truth about history. Why do you find the truth insulting?

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] He put down the Arizona law with the Mexican leader, I believe in France he called Americans arrogant....GreySeal9

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

And what does this have to do with "insulting the American people".

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]that's an insult to the state of Arizona to side with a foreign leader over what is federally considered illegal immigration dude and as leader of a country he should not have done so.

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

LJS9502_basic

It's a terrible law and the President has every right to say so. And yes, we have been an arrogant nation. It's not the President's job to sugar coat things.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

When did he make insulting comments about the American people?

QuistisTrepe_

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] He put down the Arizona law with the Mexican leader, I believe in France he called Americans arrogant....GreySeal9

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

And what does this have to do with "insulting the American people".

Well you see, we put that government there

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]that's an insult to the state of Arizona to side with a foreign leader over what is federally considered illegal immigration dude and as leader of a country he should not have done so.

Being arrogant at times = arrogance. :|

LJS9502_basic

Why are you being so disingenuous?

Just because you want to interpret it as a insult to the state of Arizona for the purpose of your argument does not make it an actual insult or doesn't mean it was intended as one. What you think he shouldn't have done/=/an insult. If there was an insult, you would be able to demonstrate one without trying your hardest to find one.

You say being arrogant at times=arrogance and ignore the context behind the statement. Why are you trying so hard to ignore the differences between what he actually said and your black and white "he called America arrogant is France comment" that you tried to represent it as.

He told the truth with his statement. We have been arrogant. He did not insult the American people. He just told the truth about history. Why do you find the truth insulting?

Saying that American has been arrogant before is not bashing. To say otherwise is the height of hyperbole.

Actually, what he was doing was being diplomatic. He is trying to ease tensions by showing that America is aware of its mistakes.

I notice that your post totally ignore looking at the actual merits of his comments.

And still you sidestep the fact that what you said that he said and what he said are totally different. It is not very intellectually honest to ignore stark differences between the intent and meaning of comments.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

Not to mention that it is considered very poor form by most foreign leaders to go around bashing your predecessor.

QuistisTrepe_

And what does this have to do with "insulting the American people".

Well you see, we put that government there

Just because some people voted for his predecessor does not make it truethat when one critiques who one voted for, they insult that person. That's warped logic.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Why are you being so disingenuous?

Just because you want to interpret it as a insult to the state of Arizona for the purpose of your argument does not make it an actual insult or doesn't mean it was intended as one. What you think he shouldn't have done/=/an insult. If there was an insult, you would be able to demonstrate one without trying your hardest to find one.

You say being arrogant at times=arrogance and ignore the context behind the statement. Why are you trying so hard to ignore the differences between what he actually said and your black and white "he called America arrogant is France comment" that you tried to represent it as.

He told the truth with his statement. We have been arrogant. He did not insult the American people. He just told the truth about history. Why do you find the truth insulting?

GreySeal9

Saying that American has been arrogant before is not bashing. To say otherwise is the height of hyperbole.

Actually, what he was doing was being diplomatic. He is trying to ease tensions by showing that America is aware of its mistakes.

I notice that your post totally ignore looking at the actual merits on his comments.

And still you sidestep the fact that what you said that he said and what he said are totally different. It is not very intellectually honest to ignore stark differences between the intent and meaning of comments.

Infact I think its the height of humility in openly acknowledging it and trying to improve it.. The past 8 years of Bush, he was consistently seen as just that from other nations for his unilateralism and his supposed claims that god is on our side and other such ridiculous rhetoric.. And the US has always deemed themselves as a force of good for the past 60 years, but many of the things done in places like the Middle East have been far from good.

And as for people getting all riled up about his "America has been arrogant comment", it's a sad state of affairs when somebody gets based for trying to show humility.

Saying that American has been arrogant before is not bashing. To say otherwise is the height of hyperbole.

Actually, what he was doing was being diplomatic. He is trying to ease tensions by showing that America is aware of its mistakes.

I notice that your post totally ignore looking at the actual merits of his comments.

And still you sidestep the fact that what you said that he said and what he said are totally different. It is not very intellectually honest to ignore stark differences between the intent and meaning of comments.

GreySeal9

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I'm cool with their opinion being heard, but the Tea Party have pretty typical far right opinions. I don't see what is so "different" about that.

GreySeal9

Tell me what you think about those with MoveOn. Those with the Tea Party movement are no different than those with MoveOn and are just as far left as the Tea Party followers are of the far right. Supporters of both attack and defend each group vehemently though each group are no different than the other even they are on different sides of the political spectrum. If you want to attack one, then you need to attack both as both a fringe groups.

We were talking about the Tea Party. Why do you expect me to bring up MoveOn when we weren't talking about them? That's unreasonable.

I don't deny that Move On is another noisy and irrtiating fringe political group, but we weren't talking about them. We were talking about the Tea Party.

However, I think Code Pink is a better comparison to the Tea Party movement.

In this thread, the vet was said to be or compared to a shill for the Tea Party and others here have bagged on the Tea Party movement too. I can equate those attacking the Tea Party movement as those with MoveOn though it may be a stretch, but considering past attacks by those who detest said movement, it isn't that much of a stretch. MoveOn also attacked Bush for his policies, much as those in the Tea Party movement attack Obama for his. I can contend that those who dislike Bush and attacked him are shills for MoveOn.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

What does it mean to "act like an American"? How is an American suppose to act?

I have much respect for the man for serving, but most of his criticisms seem way off base.

WhiteKnight77

You do realize that Obama is the only President to ever to bow to anyone anywhere, not even Nixon bowed to the Chinese back in the 70s. Where is Michelle Obama while he is visiting Arab heads of state? She is the first First Lady to not be included in tours of Arab countries. The Navy vet isn't off base, he can see it, even if he can't personally write about it.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You don't bash your country to FOREIGN leaders/countries no matter what your OPINION is. And it is opinion. I happen to think some countries have been arrogant to the US but as a diplomat....I'd not say such.;)

sSubZerOo

Saying that American has been arrogant before is not bashing. To say otherwise is the height of hyperbole.

Actually, what he was doing was being diplomatic. He is trying to ease tensions by showing that America is aware of its mistakes.

I notice that your post totally ignore looking at the actual merits on his comments.

And still you sidestep the fact that what you said that he said and what he said are totally different. It is not very intellectually honest to ignore stark differences between the intent and meaning of comments.

Infact I think its the height of humility in openly acknowledging it and trying to improve it.. The past 8 years of Bush, he was consistently seen as just that from other nations for his unilateralism and his supposed claims that god is on our side and other such ridiculous rhetoric.. And the US has always deemed themselves as a force of good for the past 60 years, but many of the things done in places like the Middle East have been far from good.

Well said. I think it's grotesque that people actually try to spin what he said as some insult when it's really a much more balanced perspective than "America can do no wrong."

Infact I think its the height of humility in openly acknowledging it and trying to improve it.. The past 8 years of Bush, he was consistently seen as just that from other nations for his unilateralism and his supposed claims that god is on our side and other such ridiculous rhetoric.. And the US has always deemed themselves as a force of good for the past 60 years, but many of the things done in places like the Middle East have been far from good.

sSubZerOo

And as for people getting all riled up about his "America has been arrogant comment", it's a sad state of affairs when somebody gets based for trying to show humility.

GreySeal9

The idea of Obama and humility in the same sentance, I can't help but smirk at that one.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Saying that American has been arrogant before is not bashing. To say otherwise is the height of hyperbole.

Actually, what he was doing was being diplomatic. He is trying to ease tensions by showing that America is aware of its mistakes.

I notice that your post totally ignore looking at the actual merits of his comments.

And still you sidestep the fact that what you said that he said and what he said are totally different. It is not very intellectually honest to ignore stark differences between the intent and meaning of comments.

LJS9502_basic

No actually I would agree with who ever spoke it.. The United States governmenthistorically for the past 60 years only uses things like the UN or diplomacy when it conviences them, and ignore it when it doesn't.. Infact Ron Paul and McCain (pre 2000 moresaner version of McCain) did such things in the past.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

And as for people getting all riled up about his "America has been arrogant comment", it's a sad state of affairs when somebody gets based for trying to show humility.

QuistisTrepe_

The idea of Obama and humility in the same sentance, I can't help but smirk at that one.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Tell me what you think about those with MoveOn. Those with the Tea Party movement are no different than those with MoveOn and are just as far left as the Tea Party followers are of the far right. Supporters of both attack and defend each group vehemently though each group are no different than the other even they are on different sides of the political spectrum. If you want to attack one, then you need to attack both as both a fringe groups.

WhiteKnight77

We were talking about the Tea Party. Why do you expect me to bring up MoveOn when we weren't talking about them? That's unreasonable.

I don't deny that Move On is another noisy and irrtiating fringe political group, but we weren't talking about them. We were talking about the Tea Party.

However, I think Code Pink is a better comparison to the Tea Party movement.

In this thread, the vet was said to be or compared to a shill for the Tea Party and others here have bagged on the Tea Party movement too. I can equate those attacking the Tea Party movement as those with MoveOn though it may be a stretch, but considering past attacks by those who detest said movement, it isn't that much of a stretch. MoveOn also attacked Bush for his policies, much as those in the Tea Party movement attack Obama for his. I can contend that those who dislike Bush and attacked him are shills for MoveOn.

Maybe you shouldn't assume? Why do you feel the need to?

Also, you still haven't explained why you expect me to rag on MoveOn when we were talking about the Tea Party.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Infact I think its the height of humility in openly acknowledging it and trying to improve it.. The past 8 years of Bush, he was consistently seen as just that from other nations for his unilateralism and his supposed claims that god is on our side and other such ridiculous rhetoric.. And the US has always deemed themselves as a force of good for the past 60 years, but many of the things done in places like the Middle East have been far from good.

LJS9502_basic

Saying such things about the United States government seems like a legitimate critique.. When he means arrogant he is talking about the foriegn policies and what not of the government.. Not its citizens.

No actually I would agree with who ever spoke it.. The United States governmenthistorically for the past 60 years only uses things like the UN or diplomacy when it conviences them, and ignore it when it doesn't.. Infact Ron Paul and McCain (pre 2000 moresaner version of McCain) did such things in the past.

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

And as for people getting all riled up about his "America has been arrogant comment", it's a sad state of affairs when somebody gets based for trying to show humility.

QuistisTrepe_

The idea of Obama and humility in the same sentance, I can't help but smirk at that one.

I can't help but smirk at the fact that you just willfully skated over my point to get a little zinger in.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

No actually I would agree with who ever spoke it.. The United States governmenthistorically for the past 60 years only uses things like the UN or diplomacy when it conviences them, and ignore it when it doesn't.. Infact Ron Paul and McCain (pre 2000 moresaner version of McCain) did such things in the past.

LJS9502_basic

Uh huh because that clearly disregards everything else, LJ your logic is flawless.:roll: No one said the United States was the bad guy, I don't disregard the good things that are done.. Infact thats whats constantly dwelled upon..

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Infact I think its the height of humility in openly acknowledging it and trying to improve it.. The past 8 years of Bush, he was consistently seen as just that from other nations for his unilateralism and his supposed claims that god is on our side and other such ridiculous rhetoric.. And the US has always deemed themselves as a force of good for the past 60 years, but many of the things done in places like the Middle East have been far from good.

sSubZerOo

Saying such things about the United States government seems like a legitimate critique.. When he means arrogant he is talking about the foriegn policies and what not of the government.. Not its citizens.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

No actually I would agree with who ever spoke it.. The United States governmenthistorically for the past 60 years only uses things like the UN or diplomacy when it conviences them, and ignore it when it doesn't.. Infact Ron Paul and McCain (pre 2000 moresaner version of McCain) did such things in the past.

sSubZerOo

Uh huh because that clearly disregards everything else, LJ your logic is flawless.:roll: No one said the United States was the bad guy, I don't disregard the good things that are done.. Infact thats whats constantly dwelled upon..

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

What does it mean to "act like an American"? How is an American suppose to act?

I have much respect for the man for serving, but most of his criticisms seem way off base.

jeremiah06

You do realize that Obama is the only President to ever to bow to anyone anywhere, not even Nixon bowed to the Chinese back in the 70s. Where is Michelle Obama while he is visiting Arab heads of state? She is the first First Lady to not be included in tours of Arab countries. The Navy vet isn't off base, he can see it, even if he can't personally write about it.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's not humility. Its taking a shot at those not there to defend themselves. Humility is when you make it personal.....

LJS9502_basic

Saying such things about the United States government seems like a legitimate critique.. When he means arrogant he is talking about the foriegn policies and what not of the government.. Not its citizens.

He is a representative of his party and the United States.. He is not hiding behind a group he is the figurehead of it..

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Saying that American has been arrogant before is not bashing. To say otherwise is the height of hyperbole.

Actually, what he was doing was being diplomatic. He is trying to ease tensions by showing that America is aware of its mistakes.

I notice that your post totally ignore looking at the actual merits of his comments.

And still you sidestep the fact that what you said that he said and what he said are totally different. It is not very intellectually honest to ignore stark differences between the intent and meaning of comments.

LJS9502_basic

When did I say it was a compliment? It wasn't an insult or a compliment. It was a statement. Why are you making this conversation a narrow false dilemna between insults and complments?

You are interpreting it an insult because you want to see it as one. It wasn't intended as an insult and it did not putting any citizen down. He was just saying that out country has been arrogant at times in the way that it has acted towards another reason.

Obama didn't put a individual person down. He did not putting the citizens of our country down. He was obviously talking about the way in which our government has interacted with other countries. You are twisting the comment so that it fits into this little negative box that you are so intent on creating.

And also, you shouldn't make assumptions about me. That's also intellectually dishonest and quite telling of how much grip you have on this argument. I see the statement that America has been arrogant at times as the absolute truth, so why would it matter who said it? I'm not into sugarcoating things.