Your thoughts about Islam ?

The general population of Jews did not, however. Otherwise, why would the Inquisitions occur? If the Jews and Muslims simply converted to Catholicism and assimilated into Iberian Roman Catholic society then this discussion would be inexistent. The fact is that my ancestors had demands that these guests were expected to meet. When they not only refused to meet them but did so in the most deceptive of manners, my ancestors did what they deemed to be necessary.

'Innocent people'? Who? The Jews?I've never quite understood why people rush to the defence of Jews, in particular, while completely ignoring orforgivingthe wrongdoings which they have committed while painting others as beingevil. Notice how you could care less about the 'injustices' the Spaniards and Portuguese committed on Moorish Marranos and solely care about defending the Jews? Why is that?

Anyways, these so-called 'innocent Jews' were far from innocent. They were, virtually, the ones who financed an invasion that lasted 800 years and costed the lives of thousands of Roman Catholics and Muslims alike. Yet, somehow, they are the victims?

Being 'Celtic' does not make an Iberian any less Iberian. Aside from this assertion of yours being entirely baseless and unfounded, and aside from the argument that 'Celtic' is not so much an ethnic group but a cultural designation, the fact is that the Celtic, Iberian (and thus Celtiberian),Lusitanian, etc., groups are all equally Iberian. It goes back to the notion of ethnogenesis, and all these groups constitute the ethnogenesis of modern Iberians.

Aside from this, this subject is not about Jews, the Inquisitions, the Moors, the Visigoths, or anyone else. In reality, this is about your opposition to the right of my people to preserve their gene pool and their culture -in the case of thelatter, both the Jews and Muslims are an obstruction to. All people in this world should have a right to preserve their nation and their identity, and I question if you lack of appreciation for this notion derives from the fact that you, as you have confessed, are an ethnic mongrel?

Rygaros

BS. The Jews were the ones who financed the invasion? The Jews were used both by Muslim and Christian kingdoms as court financiers, yet when those under the Christian kingships faced economic trouble the blame was then displaced back onto the Jews as a part of an ongoing Jewish conspiracy. It's been consistently convenient for those in power to blame their problems on a minority, especially if that minority is one that's killed the deity of worship. The Jews were routinely blamed for economic troubles, diseases like the Black Plague, poisoning wells, eating babies or participating in Christian sacrifice (blood libel against Jews). If you have no clue as to why people have done so, then don't speak, go and educate yourself.

Your nationalistic, anti-semitic, racist and polemical agenda is one that is couched in historic fallacies and is outright repugnant. Especially, when you believe that people had to "simply" convert and they wouldn't have had to die. Your ideas are nothing but a sick apology for the era, especially when the Al-Andalus region was considered one of the most civilized areas of it's time, wherein both Christians, Jews and Muslims worked to mesh together a unique blend of art styles. This was radically shifted when Christians started ejecting Jews from the Kingdoms, and forcing Catechumens to bend Jews, Muslims and Pagans into Christianity.

The point of the Inquisitions (Spanish, Portugese, Venetian) was that it expresses the inherent militantism of Christianity and it's aggressive stance toward all humans, be they Jews, Muslims, Pagans or even Christians themselves. Furthermore your ideology of 'racial' purity is baseless and is as radically twisted as when the Nazi's themselves pursued the same agenda. There is no such thing as a 'pure' race, and culture is never a fixed aspect of a society. It's a constant change of memes anc cultural zeitgeists.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]

no you would just say there are WMDs....Godly_Cure

More of a valid reason so I don't see your point.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

Now in this manner you can change anything. How does "asylum" mean "conversion"?

Godly_Cure

If a non Muslim seeks asylum (conversion) escort him to safety. If he does not then obviously he wouldn't be safe.

who is now taking it out of context you are adding your views as if facts thats why so many people are misled around the world about islam

[QUOTE="Godly_Cure"][QUOTE="rimnet00"]

Hold on a second. If you read the chapter in it's entirety; you will not misinterpret that this has to do with an actual battlefield. Not a clash of ideas like you are suggesting. Arabic is a very specific language, and there is usually very little room for interpretation. Now, you can start misinterpreting every single thing if you really wanted to, but only someone who has that kind of twisted agenda would do so - in other words, it wouldn't be done so mistakenly.

Articuno76

Are you saying this does not occur?

Actually no, Arabic isn't a specific language, it's loaded with hononyms which continue to confound and confuse people even today. I can see a sort of poetic beauty to it (you can infer several meanings from one reading) but it's not very practical when you are telling people how to live.

[QUOTE="Godly_Cure"][QUOTE="killtactics"]

no you would just say there are WMDs....killtactics

More of a valid reason so I don't see your point.

i.e oh wait theres no wmds but while were here we might aswell wagea war on these new terrorists we just foundand lets just bomb them and it dosent matter what civilians are in the region

who is now taking it out of context you are adding your views as if facts thats why so many people are misled around the world about islam

nintendo_vip

I tend to agree.....it is open to interpretation. History bears that out.

I am an muslim and I believe in Islam. Though, these... 'suicide bombers' who suicide and claim that Allah will grant them Heaven (which, Allah will not and they will be sent to hell) have ruined Islam's reputation and people who are not to be blamed at are called terrorists (Muslims). There are also some people who normally just hate Muslims (I'm not saying all do.. some do. Some are also very kind) that just always try to find a small reason to put down Muslims by saying false things.

But it is actually in the quran/koran that non-believers should be converted or killed and that they're worth less than muslims.

They also view women as inferior. My thoughts on islam are therefore pretty negative, not to mention all the extremistic fundamentalists.

Jelle87

are you joking, or are you really that ignorant.... tell me the verse number if you are telling the truth

[QUOTE="nintendo_vip"]

who is now taking it out of context you are adding your views as if facts thats why so many people are misled around the world about islam

LJS9502_basic

I tend to agree.....it is open to interpretation. History bears that out.

Every religion is open to interpretation, And there is always a small minority that interprets it in the wrong way i.e Muslim extremists and Christian extremists such as the KKK and Al-Queda. But if you ask Muslims and Christians the VAST majority condemn both of these groups.

[QUOTE="Jelle87"]

But it is actually in the quran/koran that non-believers should be converted or killed and that they're worth less than muslims.

They also view women as inferior. My thoughts on islam are therefore pretty negative, not to mention all the extremistic fundamentalists.

Bandit_Haze

are you joking, or are you really that ignorant.... tell me the verse number if you are telling the truth

dw bandit i have already stated how wrong he is

even though i know only GCSE RS ISLAM predicted A* about islam it clearly states

that you should not try to convert people to islam against their own will or through violence because when judgement day comes they will be judged because the truth is soo clear it will be to late

The Quran like any other religious text is inefficient at conveying messages, and itself has built in mistreatment of humans. For instance should homosexuals, apostates and adulterers die? Should these people have their rights restricted or abolished? It's fair to state that the standard for human rights in predominantly muslim countries is so especially low, that all those that signed onto an Islamic Declaration of Human rights (an inferior version of the Universal one) cannot even keep to that.

These fundamentalists are not misquoting the Quran, they're fundamentalists because they happen to read it the closest and can recite it frontwards and backwards if need be. Whether it's the Christian Westboro Baptist Church or one of the many muslim radicalists, these people will browbeat any moderate in their understanding of their Holy texts.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="nintendo_vip"]

who is now taking it out of context you are adding your views as if facts thats why so many people are misled around the world about islam

MGS9150

I tend to agree.....it is open to interpretation. History bears that out.

Every religion is open to interpretation, And there is always a small minority that interprets it in the wrong way i.e Muslim extremists and Christian extremists such as the KKK and Al-Queda. But if you ask Muslims and Christians the VAST majority condemn both of these groups.

agreed :)

Also on the topic of Women the Bible says women cannot speak in Church, Corinthians 14:33-36. It also says in the Bible that if a Woman is to bear her hair cut it off. Despite what you may hear in the news Islam does not promote violence against women or oppression. Just because a woman wears a head scarf it doesn't mean she is being oppressed. In western culture women are widely seen as sex objects and are portrayed as such in the media (music videos, porn, ect) Muslims respect women too much to see them as mere objects. But there are still many arrogant people who cannot think for themselves and rely only on fox news who despite knowing NOTHING about Islam other than what they see on tv choose to bash it.MGS9150

The headscarf is simply a patriarchal excuse to address the impotence of muslim men in light of any sexuality. It has little to do with respect that the continuance of primitive semitic belief systems that has worked its way into the current cultures, which is why there is a specific focus on hair as a sexual object.

This is then exaggerated to extremes in various Muslim countries to reflect the depth of impotency in the male populace.

The Quran like any other religious text is inefficient at conveying messages, and itself has built in mistreatment of humans. For instance should homosexuals, apostates and adulterers die? Should these people have their rights restricted or abolished? It's fair to state that the standard for human rights in predominantly muslim countries is so especially low, that all those that signed onto an Islamic Declaration of Human rights (an inferior version of the Universal one) cannot even keep to that.

These fundamentalists are not misquoting the Quran, they're fundamentalists because they happen to read it the closest and can recite it frontwards and backwards if need be. Whether it's the Christian Westboro Baptist Church or one of the many muslim radicalists, these people will browbeat any moderate in their understanding of their Holy texts.

Atrus

Well one could attribute the poverty in Muslim countries to the many Crusades, Colonization, War for resources such as oil and war for other unjustified reason. All of the stated have been happening in Muslim countries for thousands of years at the hands of Christians and more recently in history the Americans. The west does not interfer with genocides in Africa and other injustices because those countries have nothing the west can benefit from. Countries with the least U.S interferane the the best off in the Middle East and they have all had some sort of U.S interference so they are not all extremely well off. Iran is gaining power and they control their own oil, the U.S doesnt like that but when the U.S had control of Iranian oil feilds the countries were best of friends.

The Quran like any other religious text is inefficient at conveying messages, and itself has built in mistreatment of humans. For instance should homosexuals, apostates and adulterers die? Should these people have their rights restricted or abolished? It's fair to state that the standard for human rights in predominantly muslim countries is so especially low, that all those that signed onto an Islamic Declaration of Human rights (an inferior version of the Universal one) cannot even keep to that.

These fundamentalists are not misquoting the Quran, they're fundamentalists because they happen to read it the closest and can recite it frontwards and backwards if need be. Whether it's the Christian Westboro Baptist Church or one of the many muslim radicalists, these people will browbeat any moderate in their understanding of their Holy texts.

Atrus

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]Also on the topic of Women the Bible says women cannot speak in Church, Corinthians 14:33-36. It also says in the Bible that if a Woman is to bear her hair cut it off. Despite what you may hear in the news Islam does not promote violence against women or oppression. Just because a woman wears a head scarf it doesn't mean she is being oppressed. In western culture women are widely seen as sex objects and are portrayed as such in the media (music videos, porn, ect) Muslims respect women too much to see them as mere objects. But there are still many arrogant people who cannot think for themselves and rely only on fox news who despite knowing NOTHING about Islam other than what they see on tv choose to bash it.Atrus

The headscarf is simply a patriarchal excuse to address the impotence of muslim men in light of any sexuality. It has little to do with respect that the continuance of primitive semitic belief systems that has worked its way into the current cultures, which is why there is a specific focus on hair as a sexual object.

This is then exaggerated to extremes in various Muslim countries to reflect the depth of impotency in the male populace.

Well from the looks of it western countries are the ones who could benefit the most from the head scarf. If Jessica Alba walked by you in a head scarf you wouldnt give her a second look, but these days women are walking around in next to nothing and the rate of sex crimes and STDs are at an all time high. I suggest you find a Muslim women and talk to her about the head scarf if you truley want to know more about it.

The Quran like any other religious text is inefficient at conveying messages, and itself has built in mistreatment of humans. For instance should homosexuals, apostates and adulterers die? Should these people have their rights restricted or abolished? It's fair to state that the standard for human rights in predominantly muslim countries is so especially low, that all those that signed onto an Islamic Declaration of Human rights (an inferior version of the Universal one) cannot even keep to that.

These fundamentalists are not misquoting the Quran, they're fundamentalists because they happen to read it the closest and can recite it frontwards and backwards if need be. Whether it's the Christian Westboro Baptist Church or one of the many muslim radicalists, these people will browbeat any moderate in their understanding of their Holy texts.

Atrus

have YOU ever read the quran, i'm guessing no, because if you had you'd know that it is very clear and easy to understand

now, have you ever heard the phrase "theres no such thing as a bad dog, just bad owners".. same with religions, religions are perfect.. what aren't perfect are people.. and these "fundamentalists" probably do have a good understanding of the quran, but that doesn't mean they're not willing to twist andmanipulate to their own ends..

also you probably didn't now this, but in many"islamic" countries, people are discouraged form reading the quran, they're told its too difficult to understand (it isn't) and that they should rely on what the scholars tell them..

and in other non-islamic countries, muslims are discouraged from reading the quran, because, its too difficult to understand, and they should rely on what scholars tell them... do you see a patern here

if people, just used their brains, to think for themselves, they'd realise there is nothing difficult, about the quran, but because are discouraged from thinking for themselves it doesn't happen

so before you shout off about fundamentalists and extremists know best, you might wanna do a little research of your own..

here, i'll give you a starting block, ask all your muslim friends (if u have any, or just muslims u know, if u don't) if they've EVER read the entire quran, from beginning to end, and lemme knowhow many actually say yes

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="nintendo_vip"]

who is now taking it out of context you are adding your views as if facts thats why so many people are misled around the world about islam

MGS9150

I tend to agree.....it is open to interpretation. History bears that out.

Every religion is open to interpretation, And there is always a small minority that interprets it in the wrong way i.e Muslim extremists and Christian extremists such as the KKK and Al-Queda. But if you ask Muslims and Christians the VAST majority condemn both of these groups.

How do you know whether or not the people who have the vicious interpretation are wrong? Being in a majority or minority isn't a good way to determine whether you are right or not.

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]Also on the topic of Women the Bible says women cannot speak in Church, Corinthians 14:33-36. It also says in the Bible that if a Woman is to bear her hair cut it off. Despite what you may hear in the news Islam does not promote violence against women or oppression. Just because a woman wears a head scarf it doesn't mean she is being oppressed. In western culture women are widely seen as sex objects and are portrayed as such in the media (music videos, porn, ect) Muslims respect women too much to see them as mere objects. But there are still many arrogant people who cannot think for themselves and rely only on fox news who despite knowing NOTHING about Islam other than what they see on tv choose to bash it.Atrus

The headscarf is simply a patriarchal excuse to address the impotence of muslim men in light of any sexuality. It has little to do with respect that the continuance of primitive semitic belief systems that has worked its way into the current cultures, which is why there is a specific focus on hair as a sexual object.

This is then exaggerated to extremes in various Muslim countries to reflect the depth of impotency in the male populace.

[QUOTE="MGS9150"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="nintendo_vip"]

who is now taking it out of context you are adding your views as if facts thats why so many people are misled around the world about islam

Articuno76

I tend to agree.....it is open to interpretation. History bears that out.

Every religion is open to interpretation, And there is always a small minority that interprets it in the wrong way i.e Muslim extremists and Christian extremists such as the KKK and Al-Queda. But if you ask Muslims and Christians the VAST majority condemn both of these groups.

How do you know whether or not the people who have the vicious interpretation are wrong? Being in a majority or minority isn't a good way to determine whether you are right or not.

but generalising a whole race upon the beleif of the minority is right?

How do you know whether or not the people who have the vicious interpretation are wrong? Being in a majority or minority isn't a good way to determine whether you are right or not.Articuno76

you're exactly right, majority and minority are irrelevant, if you wanna know whos right and whos wrong, look for yourself, go straight to the source, the quran and read it for yourself

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]Also on the topic of Women the Bible says women cannot speak in Church, Corinthians 14:33-36. It also says in the Bible that if a Woman is to bear her hair cut it off. Despite what you may hear in the news Islam does not promote violence against women or oppression. Just because a woman wears a head scarf it doesn't mean she is being oppressed. In western culture women are widely seen as sex objects and are portrayed as such in the media (music videos, porn, ect) Muslims respect women too much to see them as mere objects. But there are still many arrogant people who cannot think for themselves and rely only on fox news who despite knowing NOTHING about Islam other than what they see on tv choose to bash it.Atrus

The headscarf is simply a patriarchal excuse to address the impotence of muslim men in light of any sexuality. It has little to do with respect that the continuance of primitive semitic belief systems that has worked its way into the current cultures, which is why there is a specific focus on hair as a sexual object.

This is then exaggerated to extremes in various Muslim countries to reflect the depth of impotency in the male populace.

Imagine if there are two sisters. Each is beautiful and one wears Hijab and other wears Mini/skirt. They are walking and around the corner is a hooligan (leave out muslims, because if a person is true muslim, he wouldnot tease either), which girl the hooligan is more probble to tease. Which girl would he want to have sex with? One in Hijab or one in mini/skirt.

Well one could attribute the poverty in Muslim countries to the many Crusades, Colonization, War for resources such as oil and war for other unjustified reason. All of the stated have been happening in Muslim countries for thousands of years at the hands of Christians and more recently in history the Americans. The west does not interfer with genocides in Africa and other injustices because those countries have nothing the west can benefit from. Countries with the least U.S interferane the the best off in the Middle East and they have all had some sort of U.S interference so they are not all extremely well off. Iran is gaining power and they control their own oil, the U.S doesnt like that but when the U.S had control of Iranian oil feilds the countries were best of friends.

MGS9150

A bit off the topic of what I was saying. I referred to the extremely poor conditions of human rights and regressive standards within the Islamic countries. It also does little to explain why richest muslim countries (as funded by oil revenue that they supposedly hate to be exploited for) have as poor a human rights standard as poorest ones (short of ethnic cleansing in the Africas).

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]

Well one could attribute the poverty in Muslim countries to the many Crusades, Colonization, War for resources such as oil and war for other unjustified reason. All of the stated have been happening in Muslim countries for thousands of years at the hands of Christians and more recently in history the Americans. The west does not interfer with genocides in Africa and other injustices because those countries have nothing the west can benefit from. Countries with the least U.S interferane the the best off in the Middle East and they have all had some sort of U.S interference so they are not all extremely well off. Iran is gaining power and they control their own oil, the U.S doesnt like that but when the U.S had control of Iranian oil feilds the countries were best of friends.

Atrus

A bit off the topic of what I was saying. I referred to the extremely poor conditions of human rights and regressive standards within the Islamic countries. It also does little to explain why richest muslim countries (as funded by oil revenue that they supposedly hate to be exploited for) have as poor a human rights standard as poorest ones (short of ethnic cleansing in the Africas).

Imagine if there are two sisters. Each is beautiful and one wears Hijab and other wears Mini/skirt. They are walking and around the corner is a hooligan (leave out muslims, because if a person is true muslim, he wouldnot tease either), which girl the hooligan is more probble to tease. Which girl would he want to have sex with? One in Hijab or one in mini/skirt.

MFaraz_Hayat

Your question is offensive. First it assumes the relative inability of men to control themselves from idiotic outbursts or rape, for which the vast majority prove otherwise. Secondly, it assumes that the burden of responsibility for this is on the woman and not, as the problem would indicate, with the man.

You also make a case of 'special pleading' and bringing up the old True Scotsman fallacy when you cite that 'True Muslims' are magically exempt.

The real answer to this problem is to address the minority of men that do so, not by subjugating the majority of men and women who don't participate in such. The Muslim solution with the Hijab is an inferior one that does nothing to solve such a problem with the minority.

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]

Well one could attribute the poverty in Muslim countries to the many Crusades, Colonization, War for resources such as oil and war for other unjustified reason. All of the stated have been happening in Muslim countries for thousands of years at the hands of Christians and more recently in history the Americans. The west does not interfer with genocides in Africa and other injustices because those countries have nothing the west can benefit from. Countries with the least U.S interferane the the best off in the Middle East and they have all had some sort of U.S interference so they are not all extremely well off. Iran is gaining power and they control their own oil, the U.S doesnt like that but when the U.S had control of Iranian oil feilds the countries were best of friends.

Atrus

A bit off the topic of what I was saying. I referred to the extremely poor conditions of human rights and regressive standards within the Islamic countries. It also does little to explain why richest muslim countries (as funded by oil revenue that they supposedly hate to be exploited for) have as poor a human rights standard as poorest ones (short of ethnic cleansing in the Africas).

Corrupt governments. If you are refering to the Saudis, I think many Muslims will tell you there are a bunch of racist bastards who probably buy American supermodels to layout in their beds. Then again, if you were refering to the UAE, I wouldn't call that exactly regressive.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

Imagine if there are two sisters. Each is beautiful and one wears Hijab and other wears Mini/skirt. They are walking and around the corner is a hooligan (leave out muslims, because if a person is true muslim, he wouldnot tease either), which girl the hooligan is more probble to tease. Which girl would he want to have sex with? One in Hijab or one in mini/skirt.

Atrus

Your question is offensive. First it assumes the relative inability of men to control themselves from idiotic outbursts or rape, for which the vast majority prove otherwise. Secondly, it assumes that the burden of responsibility for this is on the woman and not, as the problem would indicate, with the man.

You also make a case of 'special pleading' and bringing up the old True Scotsman fallacy when you cite that 'True Muslims' are magically exempt.

The real answer to this problem is to address the minority of men that do so, not by subjugating the majority of men and women who don't participate in such. The Muslim solution with the Hijab is an inferior one that does nothing to solve such a problem with the minority.

You misunderstood me.

Firstly, it clearly refers to HOOLIGANS. They are there in every society and there is no denying it.

Secondly, muslims are not exempted from it: IF THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS, THEY WOULD NEVER TEASE ANY WOMAN.OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT TRUE MUSLIMS, AT ALL.

However, you, on the other hand are trying to prove how Islam is bad to women. If it was so bad then why majority of Muslim converts from "WEST", women. Do you think they have not considered this point, or do you think they have no sense for they have selected ISLAM.

YOU ALSO FORGOT TO ANSWER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

Imagine if there are two sisters. Each is beautiful and one wears Hijab and other wears Mini/skirt. They are walking and around the corner is a hooligan (leave out muslims, because if a person is true muslim, he wouldnot tease either), which girl the hooligan is more probble to tease. Which girl would he want to have sex with? One in Hijab or one in mini/skirt.

Atrus

Your question is offensive. First it assumes the relative inability of men to control themselves from idiotic outbursts or rape, for which the vast majority prove otherwise. Secondly, it assumes that the burden of responsibility for this is on the woman and not, as the problem would indicate, with the man.

You also make a case of 'special pleading' and bringing up the old True Scotsman fallacy when you cite that 'True Muslims' are magically exempt.

The real answer to this problem is to address the minority of men that do so, not by subjugating the majority of men and women who don't participate in such. The Muslim solution with the Hijab is an inferior one that does nothing to solve such a problem with the minority.

thanks for proving what you are saying with examples... also do you have a link to back up what you are saying?killtactics

Take your pick. I brought up 3 evident cases of near common human rights violations against homosexuals, apostates and adulterers.

There is the general lack of equal rights given to women, be it to go out without a male attendant, drive cars etc. Honor killings. Lack of religious freedoms for minorities, government controlled limitations on the freedom of the press. Blatent homophobia and anti-semitism even state sponsored in Iran's case.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

Imagine if there are two sisters. Each is beautiful and one wears Hijab and other wears Mini/skirt. They are walking and around the corner is a hooligan (leave out muslims, because if a person is true muslim, he wouldnot tease either), which girl the hooligan is more probble to tease. Which girl would he want to have sex with? One in Hijab or one in mini/skirt.

Atrus

Your question is offensive. First it assumes the relative inability of men to control themselves from idiotic outbursts or rape, for which the vast majority prove otherwise. Secondly, it assumes that the burden of responsibility for this is on the woman and not, as the problem would indicate, with the man.

You also make a case of 'special pleading' and bringing up the old True Scotsman fallacy when you cite that 'True Muslims' are magically exempt.

The real answer to this problem is to address the minority of men that do so, not by subjugating the majority of men and women who don't participate in such. The Muslim solution with the Hijab is an inferior one that does nothing to solve such a problem with the minority.

Considering we have the highest rape rate in the world, I don't see how you are getting offended. Then you have to consider the amount of rapes that go unreported. Then you have to factor in how these rapes lead to the abortion issue as well. Then factor in divorce rates, children living with a single parent, STDs, AIDS. What about crime related to love and jealousy. I could go on and on about the ripple affect of promiscuousness, but i think you get the drift.

Men lust women. If you don't lust women as a man, you are broken. Hence women are instructed to dress modestly and hide their "ornaments" from people who arn't their husband and family. Concurrently, men are instructed to also be modest when dressing, and are told to lower their gaze. In other words, if you were to see Jessica Alba walk by in a tanktop/miniskirt, you should not holler at her.

However, at the end of the day. The Hijab is the choice, and is not supposed to be forced.

The hijab is not to keep men from raping women.....way to know what you are talking about...killtactics

I was addressing his line of questioning. He's hardly having the man go up and ask for sex, and he's brought up the same question before but couched with rape specifically. If you don't understand, don't interject.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]thanks for proving what you are saying with examples... also do you have a link to back up what you are saying?Atrus

Take your pick. I brought up 3 evident cases of near common human rights violations against homosexuals, apostates and adulterers.

There is the general lack of equal rights given to women, be it to go out without a male attendant, drive cars etc. Honor killings. Lack of religious freedoms for minorities, government controlled limitations on the freedom of the press. Blatent homophobia and anti-semitism even state sponsored in Iran's case.

I can't name a single Islamic majority country, even of the most liberal ones, that is free from such human rights violations.

You are mixing culture with religion. Honor killings, women not being allowed to drive cars, lack of religious freedom for minorities, antisemitism are all cultural and social problems. These are not religious issues in the least. Such as statement is like someone from the Middle East saying that Chrisitianity is about dressing slutty, eating fatty foods, taking over resources from poor countries, not wiping your ass with water after taking a dump. Of course, only an ignorant fool would say such things.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]thanks for proving what you are saying with examples... also do you have a link to back up what you are saying?Atrus

Take your pick. I brought up 3 evident cases of near common human rights violations against homosexuals, apostates and adulterers.

There is the general lack of equal rights given to women, be it to go out without a male attendant, drive cars etc. Honor killings. Lack of religious freedoms for minorities, government controlled limitations on the freedom of the press. Blatent homophobia and anti-semitism even state sponsored in Iran's case.

You misunderstood me.

Firstly, it clearly refers to HOOLIGANS. They are there in every society and there is no denying it.

Secondly, muslims are not exempted from it: IF THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS, THEY WOULD NEVER TEASE ANY WOMAN.OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT TRUE MUSLIMS, AT ALL.

However, you, on the other hand are trying to prove how Islam is bad to women. If it was so bad then why majority of Muslim converts from "WEST", women. Do you think they have not considered this point, or do you think they have no sense for they have selected ISLAM.

YOU ALSO FORGOT TO ANSWER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION!!!!!!!!!

MFaraz_Hayat

Your question is offensive. Why do you suppose I should guess at how the mind of a rapist, hooligan or whatever you imply works? If people are so intent on a course of action, they'll make it regardless of whether or not someone is wearing a Hijab or not. This is why there is still rape of women wearing Burqas and Hijabs.

Furthermore, muslim converts typically have a high rate of females because Muslim societies are patriarchal and allow men to marry out, as opposed to muslim women. Given that apostasy is strictly prohibited, the only way for Muslim men to marry out is to have their spouse convert or have their line continue muslim. Luckily, the West has laws which do not tolerate barbaric practices from elsewhere.

Islam... I'm guessing it's not bad, but the terrorist's are giving it a bad name because they use it to justify their actions.

If the terrorist's version of Islam turns out to be the real religion, then God can't do his own work and the Devil is the savior. So I hope their version is not correct.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]The hijab is not to keep men from raping women.....way to know what you are talking about...Atrus

I was addressing his line of questioning. He's hardly having the man go up and ask for sex, and he's brought up the same question before but couched with rape specifically. If you don't understand, don't interject.

[QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

IF THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS, THEY WOULD NEVER TEASE ANY WOMAN.OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT TRUE MUSLIMS, AT ALL.

MFaraz_Hayat

Ah....true muslims - the old 'get out of jail free' clause lol

Whether you think people are 'true' muslims or not, the millions of people in middle eastern countries consider themselves to be muslim, and believe their culture to be islamic culture.

Also to people who quote bible extracts that portray equally sexist and discriminatory verses, this doesnt justify the islamic position, all it does it highlight how these religions all seek to denigrate women. Thankfully rationalism has overcome christianity in the majority of the west, religion is more like an afterthought, unlike in islamic countries where it is as destructive as ever

Considering we have the highest rape rate in the world, I don't see how you are getting offended. Then you have to consider the amount of rapes that go unreported. Then you have to factor in how these rapes lead to the abortion issue as well. Then factor in divorce rates, children living with a single parent, STDs, AIDS. What about crime related to love and jealousy. I could go on and on about the ripple affect of promiscuousness, but i think you get the drift.

Men lust women. If you don't lust women as a man, you are broken. Hence women are instructed to dress modestly and hide their "ornaments" from people who arn't their husband and family. Concurrently, men are instructed to also be modest when dressing, and are told to lower their gaze. In other words, if you were to see Jessica Alba walk by in a tanktop/miniskirt, you should not holler at her.

However, at the end of the day. The Hijab is the choice, and is not supposed to be forced.

rimnet00

No, the highest rape per capita is in the Africas and has been for quite some time. The West tracks rape far better than in muslim countries were failure to establish rape can lead to death, and where rape itself is an embarressing statistic to sweep under the carpet. Thus rape statistics in these countries are extremely conservative, whereas the West is as liberal as you can get in determining them.

Men may lust after women, but there is no such argument that says men must all be more inclined to violate the rights of a woman. It is an infantile argument that can only come from infantile dogma. Especially when it reinforces that women should be the ones to do something about it.

The muslim viewpoint is a form of indoctrinated inferiority complex. Any man that cannot handle himself in lieu of sexuality is my inferior, and one that is little better than the Ape he cares to differentiate himself from.

They disrespect Women...

I dont think all Muslims are bad though.

This is something i found.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/025-Muhammads-sex-life.htm

You are mixing culture with religion. Honor killings, women not being allowed to drive cars, lack of religious freedom for minorities, antisemitism are all cultural and social problems. These are not religious issues in the least. Such as statement is like someone from the Middle East saying that Chrisitianity is about dressing slutty, eating fatty foods, taking over resources from poor countries, not wiping your ass with water after taking a dump. Of course, only an ignorant fool would say such things.

rimnet00

So lets limit it to just the Islamic issues, as if it's not a part of a wider problem. Adultry, Apostasy, and Homosexuality. The big three of a larger list but hey, these are fairly prominent if it costs people lives.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"][QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]

IF THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS, THEY WOULD NEVER TEASE ANY WOMAN.OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT TRUE MUSLIMS, AT ALL.

vitriolboy

Ah....true muslims - the old 'get out of jail free' clause lol

Whether you think people are 'true' muslims or not, the millions of people in middle eastern countries consider themselves to be muslim, and believe their culture to be islamic culture.

Also to people who quote bible extracts that portray equally sexist and discriminatory verses, this doesnt justify the islamic position, all it does it highlight how these religions all seek to denigrate women. Thankfully rationalism has overcome christianity in the majority of the west, religion is more like an afterthought, unlike in islamic countries where it is as destructive as ever

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]

You are mixing culture with religion. Honor killings, women not being allowed to drive cars, lack of religious freedom for minorities, antisemitism are all cultural and social problems. These are not religious issues in the least. Such as statement is like someone from the Middle East saying that Chrisitianity is about dressing slutty, eating fatty foods, taking over resources from poor countries, not wiping your ass with water after taking a dump. Of course, only an ignorant fool would say such things.

Atrus

So lets limit it to just the Islamic issues, as if it's not a part of a wider problem. Adultry, Apostasy, and Homosexuality. The big three of a larger list but hey, these are fairly prominent if it costs people lives.

so you are saying its acceptable for a man to cheat on his wife? its acceptable for two people of the same sex to have a relationship when they cannot produce children? both of these are also not acceptable in islam and christianity and just because islamic law is stricter than english law why is that a bad thing maybe then no-one would be doing such things

you said "the muslim solution" to use the hijab to stop rape is a bad one... killtactics

Make a little more sense please. He brought up the question in a previous thread with rape, I answered this one while reiterating the last one as well.

i personally dont believe in god, ever since i was like 8 and grew a brain, i basicaly little by little stoped believing in god and more in science, but for islam, i say we just kill them all so then there wont be any religion wars or anything and same for all the other religions, although religion isnt that bad so long as you dont take itliteraly cuz religion for most atleast, instill good morals into people and that's a good thing. i just dontbelieve the whole god thing.nemiseswes426

yes kill them all what a educated and thougtfull post :roll: