Your thoughts about Islam ?

[QUOTE="killtactics"]double standards much?Atrus

Hows that? I'm not exactly presenting a religion that's all fluffy bunnies and roses here. I'll be the first person to lay the brickwork to a religion that's all about humanity and goodness and all that. Except that religious adherents have an all too convenient way of ignoring the evils done in its name.

You go and deal with that and more importantly take steps to ensure that it doesn't come up again, and I should have no problems with it.

[QUOTE="killtactics"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="killtactics"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]That's the problem right there. Secure moderates who don't speak out against the 'radicals' allow them to pervade.mig_killer2

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"] As were the wars between Catholics and Protestants.mig_killer2

I honestly question your intelligence for this one.. No it had nothing to do with the fact we have supported all sorts of brutal dictators in the middle east from The Shah in Iran, To Saddam in Iraq, Taliban in Afghanistan, And we still highly support the brutal monarch of Saudi Arabia..

We have had tons of military engagments with countries in there we have dumped millions of pounds of bombs on these countries killing quite a few peopel in the collateral damage to reach a target.. We forced people out of their ancestrialhomes to make way for Israel...

No but the fact we are immoral just infuriates them over these issues! How bout the fact that many american based companies have screwed quite a ton of their economies? But no its because we have pre-marital sex is why they hate us!

I just graduated college. I don't exactly have the funds, nor the political power to do anything more then voice my thoughts. Maybe when I actually have the ability to do so I will. Even then, I also have the issue of helping fight the growing prejeduce against Islam in my own country, the United States. It is easy talking about how easy revolution and change is, until you actually have had experiance with it.
rimnet00

If you eliminate the sources then the arguments against it should drop significantly. Until then, there are plenty of sane people that protect everyones freedom of religon or speech while you address the internal issues of Islam. It's part of what the United States stands for and is present in many Western countries, something you might not be afforded when facing your opponents. Sure, you may be a minority but for every step you think you take forward, every negative occourance drops it a hundred back.

The claim is that you are more true to your religion than them, so its really up to you to make it so that the majority of Islam is synonymous with your presumably humanistic view. It's not going to be easy, and I'll suspect you'll really understand what's out there when you really talk to some of these opponents face to face. I think the very interpretive nature of the Quran is a root cause of the problem, but that shouldn't be an argument for now, it's an argument when you've finally gotten a concensus.

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]
I just graduated college. I don't exactly have the funds, nor the political power to do anything more then voice my thoughts. Maybe when I actually have the ability to do so I will. Even then, I also have the issue of helping fight the growing prejeduce against Islam in my own country, the United States. It is easy talking about how easy revolution and change is, until you actually have had experiance with it.
Atrus

If you eliminate the sources then the arguments against it should drop significantly. Until then, there are plenty of sane people that protect everyones freedom of religon or speech while you address the internal issues of Islam. It's part of what the United States stands for and is present in many Western countries, something you might not be afforded when facing your opponents. Sure, you may be a minority but for every step you think you take forward, every negative occourance drops it a hundred back.

The claim is that you are more true to your religion than them, so its really up to you to make it so that the majority of Islam is synonymous with your presumably humanistic view. It's not going to be easy, and I'll suspect you'll really understand what's out there when you really talk to some of these opponents face to face. I think the very interpretive nature of the Quran is a root cause of the problem, but that shouldn't be an argument for now, it's an argument when you've finally gotten a concensus.

Great, do you have Osama's number? Oh wait, I will prolly get thrown in Gitmo for that!

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Osama bin Laden was a student of the man who founded the Islamic Brotherhood. These people joined together in the war between Afghanistan and the Soviet Union. They were all influenced by an Egyptian who believed that the West was a corrupt society and that it endangered Islam. Thus they needed to create Islamic states. This led to the president of Egypt being assassinated. Google Video 'The Power of Nightmares'. It's a 3-part documentary by the BBC on the history and present of the War on Terror. Sorry that I forgot the names. Not necessarily going with what the video says, the moderates need to unite and speak to the world against the 'radicals.' You have acknowledged that the media only reports the radicals. This is true. This is our problem that we need to fix. The problem the Middle East needs to fix is the moderates need to unite against the radicals. That would utterly destroy the conflict.killtactics

How about ill do that as soon as Americans find a way to make sure wars based on false facts dont start again? ensure thatterrorism will never happen? thats like saying make sure out of these 5 million ppl no one kills anyone... Like i said we all hate terrorists but holding posters up is't going to stop them... Also you have to realise that your sense of urgency is not shared my the millions of people thatknow that this has nothing to do with them... only in name...killtactics

Well for one, I'm not American. Furthermore, I don't ask for the permanent solving of all problems just the glaringly obvious ones. How about we raise the education standards, increase womens rights, freedom of speech and other aspects of these countries? Given the current standard, anywhere is a good start. How about a zero tolerance policy for these religious zealots? Stop entertaining these fanatics just because it's "religous".

Despite whatever danger present to them, Palestinians actually campaigned for the release of the BBC reporter in public marches. That's good. Dangerous, but hey, its only this dangerous because people allowed it to worsen that far. I don't even believe in a second life and I have zero tolerance for inhuman acts. It pisses me off greatly. Shouldn't people who believe in at least 2 be a little bit more brave?

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]
I just graduated college. I don't exactly have the funds, nor the political power to do anything more then voice my thoughts. Maybe when I actually have the ability to do so I will. Even then, I also have the issue of helping fight the growing prejeduce against Islam in my own country, the United States. It is easy talking about how easy revolution and change is, until you actually have had experiance with it.
Atrus

If you eliminate the sources then the arguments against it should drop significantly. Until then, there are plenty of sane people that protect everyones freedom of religon or speech while you address the internal issues of Islam. It's part of what the United States stands for and is present in many Western countries, something you might not be afforded when facing your opponents. Sure, you may be a minority but for every step you think you take forward, every negative occourance drops it a hundred back.

The claim is that you are more true to your religion than them, so its really up to you to make it so that the majority of Islam is synonymous with your presumably humanistic view. It's not going to be easy, and I'll suspect you'll really understand what's out there when you really talk to some of these opponents face to face. I think the very interpretive nature of the Quran is a root cause of the problem, but that shouldn't be an argument for now, it's an argument when you've finally gotten a concensus.

[QUOTE="killtactics"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Osama bin Laden was a student of the man who founded the Islamic Brotherhood. These people joined together in the war between Afghanistan and the Soviet Union. They were all influenced by an Egyptian who believed that the West was a corrupt society and that it endangered Islam. Thus they needed to create Islamic states. This led to the president of Egypt being assassinated. Google Video 'The Power of Nightmares'. It's a 3-part documentary by the BBC on the history and present of the War on Terror. Sorry that I forgot the names. Not necessarily going with what the video says, the moderates need to unite and speak to the world against the 'radicals.' You have acknowledged that the media only reports the radicals. This is true. This is our problem that we need to fix. The problem the Middle East needs to fix is the moderates need to unite against the radicals. That would utterly destroy the conflict.CptJSparrow

[QUOTE="killtactics"]How about ill do that as soon as Americans find a way to make sure wars based on false facts dont start again? ensure thatterrorism will never happen? thats like saying make sure out of these 5 million ppl no one kills anyone... Like i said we all hate terrorists but holding posters up is't going to stop them... Also you have to realise that your sense of urgency is not shared my the millions of people thatknow that this has nothing to do with them... only in name...Atrus

Well for one, I'm not American. Furthermore, I don't ask for the permanent solving of all problems just the glaringly obvious ones. How about we raise the education standards, increase womens rights, freedom of speech and other aspects of these countries? Given the current standard, anywhere is a good start. How about a zero tolerance policy for these religious zealots? Stop entertaining these fanatics just because it's "religous".

Despite whatever danger present to them, Palestinians actually campaigned for the release of the BBC reporter in public marches. That's good. Dangerous, but hey, its only this dangerous because people allowed it to worsen that far. I don't even believe in a second life and I have zero tolerance for inhuman acts. It pisses me off greatly. Shouldn't people who believe in at least 2 be a little bit more brave?

how long did it take France to have all those things? how long has Saudi Arabia been a country?killtactics

Revolutionary France had quite a bit less to work with than countries today. In fact the US Founding Fathers and the establishment of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is a historic moment in the history of the world, one that could be used as a pretty damned good starting point.

You don't really mean we should wait for individuals in each country to unilaterally rediscover the principles of individual liberty do you? Seriously. Learning from what has happened is a good way to get up to speed while avoiding the pitfalls of their predecessors. I shudder to think that the only way forward is to wait for a Middle-East version of the Reign of Terror, Napoleon, or any long line of European events.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Has it ever occured to you that this is common amongst all religions when it controls the country.. Look at the dark ages where Christainty ran Europe you will see quite a few similarities.. Lets not forget that quite a few ethnic cleansings in Africa was brought upon religion, namely Christanity as well as a few others.. So it deems to reckon that religion in general when it controls a society creates inequality, violence and other things.

Hell I bet half of you guys don't even realize the largest concentration of Islam isn't even located in the Middle East.

rimnet00

The dark ages were caused by tyrant rulers, uncureable diseases, wars, famines, and more. Christianity did not cause the dark ages.

and he's absolutely wrong as well.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]how long did it take France to have all those things? how long has Saudi Arabia been a country?Atrus

Revolutionary France had quite a bit less to work with than countries today. In fact the US Founding Fathers and the establishment of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is a historic moment in the history of the world, one that could be used as a pretty damned good starting point.

You don't really mean we should wait for individuals in each country to unilaterally rediscover the principles of individual liberty do you? Seriously. Learning from what has happened is a good way to get up to speed while avoiding the pitfalls of their predecessors. I shudder to think that the only way forward is to wait for a Middle-East version of the Reign of Terror, Napoleon, or any long line of European events.

i am a muslim and i really hope that people dont give their thought about islam just by watching fox news or cnn .

The problem isn't the religion, but how the followers interpret it. It appears that Islam in this day and age is the most dangerous religion because of its followers, and i think it hurts the human population more than helps.

The problem isn't the religion, but how the followers interpret it. It appears that Islam in this day and age is the most dangerous religion because of its followers, and i think it hurts the human population more than helps.

helium_flash

OK am a follower of Islam ,am i hurting you by any chance ? i don't think so.

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]

The problem isn't the religion, but how the followers interpret it. It appears that Islam in this day and age is the most dangerous religion because of its followers, and i think it hurts the human population more than helps.

red_x2004

OK am a follower of Islam ,am i hurting you by any chance ? i don't think so.

Ok, how about this: it is hurting humanity more than it helps?

[QUOTE="red_x2004"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

The problem isn't the religion, but how the followers interpret it. It appears that Islam in this day and age is the most dangerous religion because of its followers, and i think it hurts the human population more than helps.

helium_flash

OK am a follower of Islam ,am i hurting you by any chance ? i don't think so.

Ok, how about this: it is hurting humanity more than it helps?

how is it hurting humanity ? by being the second most growing religion in the world ? how you tell me ?

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="red_x2004"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

The problem isn't the religion, but how the followers interpret it. It appears that Islam in this day and age is the most dangerous religion because of its followers, and i think it hurts the human population more than helps.

red_x2004

OK am a follower of Islam ,am i hurting you by any chance ? i don't think so.

Ok, how about this: it is hurting humanity more than it helps?

how is it hurting humanity ? by being the second most growing religion in the world ? how you tell me ?

By car bombs that kill 147 innocent people just because they believe in another sect of a religion as you. How about the oppressive behavior towards women in the middle east? How about people that get sent to jail for convertint to Atheism or Christianity? Or how being homosexual is a crime?

It is doing more harm than good.