Zimmerman doctor confirms broken nose, autopsy of Martin shows knuckle abrasions

[QUOTE="fueled-system"]

Wonder if news outlets will report this...

SEANMCAD

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="Nuck81"]I don't have to predict the future, I have 100 years of Americas past.Nuck81

Or may I remind you of Mr. Jim Crow and his lynching buddies.

[QUOTE="fueled-system"]

Wonder if news outlets will report this...

SEANMCAD

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

SEANMCAD

its a huge leap from 'I got my nose broken by this punk'

to

'therefore I can kill him and its reasonable for me to not have a trial over it'

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

SEANMCAD

its a huge leap from 'I got my nose broken by this punk'

to

'therefore I can kill him and its reasonable for me to not have a trial over it'

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] Progress has been made in those 100 years of America's past. What was once legal is not illegal. People who claim that no great progress has been made whatsoever are blind. SaintWalrus

Or may I remind you of Mr. Jim Crow and his lynching buddies.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

SEANMCAD

its a huge leap from 'I got my nose broken by this punk'

to

'therefore I can kill him and its reasonable for me to not have a trial over it'

You do know Zimmerman has been in custody and this whole topic is in in relevance to the impending trial...?

I really don't care what you support, it's the law. Also, your examples have nothing to do with anything and have no relevance to the case. You might as well argue what if Zimmerman was a space martian and how you think the law should apply to him then.

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]And yet here we are, the Media is having a frenzy over another Racial Killing, the same republican party and religious institutions that were fighting Black Civil Rights in the 60's are now fighting Gay Civil Rights in the 10's. Yes we've made lots of progress.Nuck81

Or may I remind you of Mr. Jim Crow and his lynching buddies.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Actually it's you that is talking in circles. I'm going by the physical evidence and you're whining about your opinion on motivations. The actions are what determines whether one has committed a crime or not. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] You mean the crime of Zimmerman shooting Martin?Nuck81

Not defending LJ here but...

The point.

Your head.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] The system is not perfect, I know this. There are still injustices and inequality. But to deny that things aren't loads better than the past, is to be blind.

Or may I remind you of Mr. Jim Crow and his lynching buddies.

SaintWalrus

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Renevent42"] I think you misunderstood his point. He didn't say it tells the whole story, just that it's more reliable than witnesses. Both would have their story, the evidence is what corroborates the stories. They can make people into liars, show someone is telling the truth, ect. Let's say Martin survived and said Zimmerman just starting kicking his arse for no reason then shot him. Well, the evidence show that Martin was the one with busted up knuckles not Zimmerman. It also shows Zimmerman having head wounds and a broken nose...the evidence would not substantiate his story.Renevent42

*edit*

Actually that's not your fault...that's the shatty media doing it's thing again.

The original video was cut off to that point, let me find the original...WTF is wrong with the media!?!?!

*edit2*

It is the same video, you just ignored what he said prior (1:00). More consistent with the defense, but of course there's other possibilities. How you turn that into the opposite though is a wonder.

I'm not the one taking his words out of context. He didn't say it was any more consistent with Zimmerman's account, he said this evidence is better for the defense than it is for the prosecution. That's a very different thing to say than what you are claiming is being said. This evidence doesn't tell us one way or another how these injuries were inflicted, it just confirms that injuries were inflicted.

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] I would argue that things are not that much better, the discrimination has just shifted from Blacks to Gays. Although there is less small town justice going on now-a-days, the media is so fast and nationalized it's hard to "take care of problems" like it was 40 years ago. I lived in a very racist and bigoted community for 10 years before I moved. The national office for the KKK is less than a hundred miles from where I live now. Things haven't improved as much as you think is certain parts of the country.Nuck81

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]

I really don't care what you support, it's the law. Also, your examples have nothing to do with anything and have no relevance to the case. You might as well argue what if Zimmerman was a space martian and how you think the law should apply to him then.

SEANMCAD

I dont hide my belief system in what is right or wrong behind the law, cowards do that...;)

I have my own thoughts on our legal system...that's not what I am talking about. My point is your comments have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Your examples are stupid over simplifications too.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] There will still be those who have their racist minds, I agree. But now hate groups have to hide in fear from the people. The cops have to lie about their discrimination, instead of being open about it. So the system itself has improved. But the people themselves need to die off, along with their hatefulness.SaintWalrus

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Per the article linked, the evidence is consistent with Martin trying to get away or defend himself from Zimmerman. -Sun_Tzu-

*edit*

Actually that's not your fault...that's the shatty media doing it's thing again.

The original video was cut off to that point, let me find the original...WTF is wrong with the media!?!?!

*edit2*

It is the same video, you just ignored what he said prior (1:00). More consistent with the defense, but of course there's other possibilities. How you turn that into the opposite though is a wonder.

I'm not the one taking his words out of context. He didn't say it was any more consistent with Zimmerman's account, he said this evidence is better for the defense than it is for the prosecution. That's a very different thing to say than what you are claiming is being said. This evidence doesn't tell us one way or another how these injuries were inflicted, it just confirms that injuries were inflicted.

If he thinks the evidence is better for the defense, which account/story do you think he believes it's more consistent with?

Either way, your initial comment:

"Per the article linked, the evidence is consistent with Martin trying to get away or defend himself from Zimmerman."

Is totally inconsistent with what what he was saying. He clearly believes the evidence is better for the defense, not with the prosecution's story. C'mon man...don't be ridiculous.

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] No the "system" hasn't improved. All those things still exist. It's just that instead of being open they have to be hidden from the media. 30 years ago racist trash would call a Black man a **** to his face no matter where he was, the only difference now is that same trash just waits till their back is turned.Nuck81

Instead of a transition from blacks to gays

It's more of a transition from blacks to a lot of different groups.

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]

[QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

I dont hide my belief system in what is right or wrong behind the law, cowards do that...;)

SEANMCAD

I have my own thoughts on our legal system...that's not what I am talking about. My point is your comments have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Your examples are stupid over simplifications too.

your suggestion is that this entire debate with its 14 pages is NOT about the morality of the issue but an agnostic debate over what law is on the books.

I call that ****

Or whatever don't, I don't really care I guess. It's not a discussion I personally want to have...SEANMCAD's personal opinion on self defense doesn't matter or effect what I am talking about (the evidence, case, ect).

[QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

[QUOTE="fueled-system"]

Wonder if news outlets will report this...

LJS9502_basic

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

It's a racist conspiracy!

if a guy with a gun was following you in his car, when its dark out, I would fight back too.

Chris_Williams

So because Zimmerman happened to get his asss whoop,its no way Martin could have been the one that got attacked ?Bucked20

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

Bucked20

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

Bucked20

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

the challenege will be explaining the context.

what I mean is on the surface it appears like this 'because zimmerman got his nose broken he was justified in killing the boy'

well details please...?

Bucked20

If there is no physical evidence to say that Martin was beaten or battered... then no.

EDIT: Unless of course Zimmerman hits like an absolute b*tch and did no damage whatsoever even with the leading blow.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Renevent42"] Actually no, that guy clearly said he believes it helps the defense and is consistent with Zimmerman's account, not the other way around. He simply threw that out there as an alternative. You way took his words out of context...shame on you.

*edit*

Actually that's not your fault...that's the shatty media doing it's thing again.

The original video was cut off to that point, let me find the original...WTF is wrong with the media!?!?!

*edit2*

It is the same video, you just ignored what he said prior (1:00). More consistent with the defense, but of course there's other possibilities. How you turn that into the opposite though is a wonder.

Renevent42

I'm not the one taking his words out of context. He didn't say it was any more consistent with Zimmerman's account, he said this evidence is better for the defense than it is for the prosecution. That's a very different thing to say than what you are claiming is being said. This evidence doesn't tell us one way or another how these injuries were inflicted, it just confirms that injuries were inflicted.

[QUOTE="Renevent42"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

I'm not the one taking his words out of context. He didn't say it was any more consistent with Zimmerman's account, he said this evidence is better for the defense than it is for the prosecution. That's a very different thing to say than what you are claiming is being said. This evidence doesn't tell us one way or another how these injuries were inflicted, it just confirms that injuries were inflicted.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Self defense is not a crime.......and this looks like self defense. Assault with intent to injure is a crime however....Hubadubalubahu

Not defending LJ here but...

The point.

Your head.

[QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It shows that Martin attacked Zimmerman which bolsters the self defense claim. Hubadubalubahu

If there is no physical evidence to say that Martin was beaten or battered... then no.

EDIT: Unless of course Zimmerman hits like an absolute b*tch and did no damage whatsoever even with the leading blow.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Renevent42"] If he thinks the evidence is better for the defense, which account/story do you think he believes it's more consistent with? Either way, your initial comment: "Per the article linked, the evidence is consistent with Martin trying to get away or defend himself from Zimmerman." Is totally inconsistent with what what he was saying. He clearly believes the evidence is better for the defense, not with the prosecution's story. C'mon man...don't be ridiculous.Renevent42

[QUOTE="Hubadubalubahu"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. The crime is not Assault with intent to injure. It's the Murder of Martin by Zimmerman.Nuck81

Not defending LJ here but...

The point.

Your head.

[QUOTE="Renevent42"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]You're missing the point. Just because evidence is better for the defense doesn't mean that this evidence is more consistent with Zimmerman's account than other potential accounts for what happened. The prosecution has a very high burden of proof to meet. It has to prove second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt. This evidence, on its face, creates a reasonable doubt. That's not to say this evidence is any more consistent with Zimmerman's account, but the fact that it is consistent with Zimmerman's account is much better for the defense than it is for the state, even though there are other scenarios that are just as plausible that would make Zimmerman guilty, the fact that Zimmerman's own account is plausible is a plus for him and it hurts the prosecution. Not because his account is more likely, but because his account is a valid interpretation of the facts.Nuck81

[QUOTE="Hubadubalubahu"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. The crime is not Assault with intent to injure. It's the Murder of Martin by Zimmerman.Nuck81

Not defending LJ here but...

The point.

Your head.

I do not believe he was saying the evidence proves or disproves either sides case. He also never implied Zimmerman was being charged, or should be charged with assault. There may have been a misunderstanding.