Dragon Age 2 demo available. Thoughts & impressions?

had i not seen some footage from the pc version already I might be a little worried, but I know its just not the greatest demo. How can an rpg have a good demo?

[QUOTE="madrocketeer"]Interestingly, I just saw reports starting to come in on the Bioware forums from players who have played both the PC and the console demos. They say the console version is better, with more responsive, button-mashing style combat and no issues with the UI, interface and camera. DA2's platform difference is the reverse of DAO, then?kozzy1234

Having played both demos I can say that is nonsense. PC demo was better.

Well i browsed trough the Bioware forums

The problem for me is that in the PC version, much like Dragon Age Origins and almost every Bioware RPG before it, you click an enemy once, and it initiates a string of attacks continuously without player input. In an older game like Baldur's Gate, this would be ideal because of the isometric, top-down view. The problem with using this control scheme in Dragon Age 2 is that it's very up-close, action-y, and frenetic. With the PS3 version, you press X to attack, and it only does once. You need to continually press X to continually attacking, eliminating the auto-attack "problem"I have with the PC version. As for using spells and skills, pressing 1, 2, 3, etc or triangle, square, circle doesn't matter; those I am absolutely cool with. It's just the mouse configuration bothers me.

This man speaks the truth.

GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

Well i browsed trough the Bioware forums

The problem for me is that in the PC version, much like Dragon Age Origins and almost every Bioware RPG before it, you click an enemy once, and it initiates a string of attacks continuously without player input. In an older game like Baldur's Gate, this would be ideal because of the isometric, top-down view. The problem with using this control scheme in Dragon Age 2 is that it's very up-close, action-y, and frenetic. With the PS3 version, you press X to attack, and it only does once. You need to continually press X to continually attacking, eliminating the auto-attack "problem"I have with the PC version. As for using spells and skills, pressing 1, 2, 3, etc or triangle, square, circle doesn't matter; those I am absolutely cool with. It's just the mouse configuration bothers me.

This man speaks the truth.

TerrorRizzing

I was pretty disappointed by the demo but then again maybe I was just disappointed in all the changes.

The voice acting took me from my current play through of awakening and through out all immersion I wasn't hawke I was a observer of this character felt more like reading a book when the dialogue came then making my own choices for a unique character.

The graphics are alright but something just doesn't feel like dragon age origins the whole art design makes me feel like I am playing a mod some one made for mass effect 2 with lower quality textures and Miranda teeth for all the girls.Hurlocks get a special mention because their design is horrid I seriously hope bioware changed them for the official version.

The combat was fast but besides the over powered part I felt weaker my normal attacks just seemed so much weaker the in dragon age. Plus no dual wielding warriors from what I have seen but it might change.

Now to the talent trees from what I saw they are fairly limited and not even close to the amount of choice you had in DA:O I feel locked down into maybe 1 or 2 paths with most skills requiring levels now instead of raw stats like before but I hope this is changes at higher levels in the full game.

The story made me care less I hope the opening is much more elaborate then this because when I saw my friend or brother who ever he was die I couldn't have cared less their was no build up to his story or heck any of the characters for that matter.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"][QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

Well i browsed trough the Bioware forums

The problem for me is that in the PC version, much like Dragon Age Origins and almost every Bioware RPG before it, you click an enemy once, and it initiates a string of attacks continuously without player input. In an older game like Baldur's Gate, this would be ideal because of the isometric, top-down view. The problem with using this control scheme in Dragon Age 2 is that it's very up-close, action-y, and frenetic. With the PS3 version, you press X to attack, and it only does once. You need to continually press X to continually attacking, eliminating the auto-attack "problem"I have with the PC version. As for using spells and skills, pressing 1, 2, 3, etc or triangle, square, circle doesn't matter; those I am absolutely cool with. It's just the mouse configuration bothers me.

This man speaks the truth.

GeneralShowzer

In the end, the actual pc gamers, not the forum whiners have voted with their wallets. Dragon Age 2 went straight to the top of the steam charts after the demo was released, like it or not.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"] they could just make it like diablo I guess, or optional. Im not a big button mashing fan, give me auto-attack and hotkeys for special attacks.TerrorRizzing

It's not like any newer MMO.

It's more like playing an action RPG, but with autoattack . And everyone loved the combat. I think it was the most praised feature of the game. Console gamers complained about the combat. You say "Screaming Consoles" but i say face reality. They could have made the changes to make the combat better for consoles, and keep the depth, and the isometric camera for PC. But they didn't. Probably budget/time constraints. The combat as it is in the demo is just an abomination that just doesn't work.

And sales are supposed to matter anything? Origins was extremely popular on PC because it established itself as a great PC RPG and the best PC game of 2009. I would pre-order it, if i didn't follow the development.

[QUOTE="ralph2190"]

(sigh)

i can't see myself doing this sucky combat over and over again

Hmm tell me again what the animations were in DAO. Same thing over and over? Not a chance!/sarcasm

Tactics, out of the question. It moves too fast for you to be in control anything

Have you even played DAO? Like Jango said, if everything is too fast for you (or you are too slow) use spacebar.

Can anyone please tell me that those six branches is not all there is

Six trees plus two specialization trees for Hawke. One point at level 7 and another level 14.

Everyone has the same spells, they just look different.The archer and the mage have the same spells i swear...

Wth are you talking about? All the spells are different for each class! Do you read what the spells do or just look at all the pwetty colors?

If I'm doing anything wrong please tell me

Umm maybe the rogue should not be your tank? What do you think Aveline is for? Get the rogue to deal with Hurlock scragglers or backstabbing the Ogre.

GeneralShowzer

1) I'm not talking about animation I'm talking about the core combat. The game is so easy and unbalanced i was already bored with the rouge before i finish the demo. Jumping arrond seeing crazy animations, and having everyone use their stun/aoe over and over.

2) You can't have any control of the situation or the combat. First the camera zooms out very little, and you can't remove it from your character. If your group gets separated you have to pause and switch between characters all the time, while the camera moves back and forth. If there was DA:O camera, or at least a little more zoomed out this wouldn't be a problem.

Second, it's too damn fast. By the time you unpause, in a split second, my rouge jumped ten meters away from where i positioned him, my mage used up all his spells, and everything was disorganized again. This is not a game meant to be played tactically. Everyone of your team members does their ***** and quickly kill everything in their way. You can of-course switch everyone to passive and use spells manually. But this is way more trouble than it's worth, without an isometric camera it's impossible, and you lose too much time. Not to mention it's not worth it since everyone are overpowered with stun spells and big AOE spells. Just use that.

If you're gonna make an RPG of this type at least use some CO-OP so people can have fun with it.

3) Yes everyone has the same spell. Mage has big AOE, and small AOE that stuns people. So does the Archer. Small stun AOE and big AOE. Then warrior has "Rush" and the rouge has the same spell. Each class has AOE stun around the caster. I can't believe only half of the abilities were available, but everyone managed to use the same spells over and over.

4) I meant why people tell me that this is exactly like Origins but better. I don't see it. The combat can only be described as dumbed down. And so do the spells. Check back in the thread when we discussed tactics...

This is not the first RPG I've played... Jesus...

Very nicely stated and explained. You have voice my exact feelings about DA2 into words.

Bottom line to me DA2 was seems definitely designed for console players first, PC 2nd. DA:O was the other way around and it showed. RIP DA.

So you too complain about difficulty in a demo locked on Normal?

Check out some skill trees here. The similarities of the AOE spells are superficial (like General's analysis, I might add).

Hawke has 90 possible upgrades (6x10 skill trees + 3x10 specialisations), as opposed to 64+2 from Origins with Warden's Keep.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"][QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] ? it was made multiplat and feels alot like newer mmos on pc instead of older games from 1998. Its not surprising, doa1 was in development for a long time and wouldnt have been as influenced by recent trends. So many people hated the combat in dao1 even on pc, they changed it and now the usual suspects scream console. I for one like what they have done, except the camera angle. I can appreciate that the game is a short demo thus was easy and didnt have us using too many abilities. I would still hate to play this game with a gamepad after seeing how many abilities each character can have and the amount of strategy thats still there ( watch some gameplay diaries of the pc version). Ive come to learn though whenever anything changes pc gamers will run to forums and blame consoles.GeneralShowzer

It's not like any newer MMO.

It's more like playing an action RPG, but with autoattack . And everyone loved the combat. I think it was the most praised feature of the game. Console gamers complained about the combat. You say "Screaming Consoles" but i say face reality. They could have made the changes to make the combat better for consoles, and keep the depth, and the isometric camera for PC. But they didn't. Probably budget/time constraints. The combat as it is in the demo is just an abomination that just doesn't work.

And sales are supposed to matter anything? Origins was extremely popular on PC because it established itself as a great PC RPG and the best PC game of 2009. I would pre-order it, if i didn't follow the development.

I am playing a mod some one made for mass effect 2 with lower quality textures and Miranda teeth for all the girls.Hurlocks get a special mention because their design is horrid I seriously hope bioware changed them for the official version..

Empirefrtw

Is the demo locked to DX9? I was able to put it into DX10 on High settings (1920x1080) and it looked pretty good, not to mention silky smooth frame rate.

Screen-shot below:

http://img130.imageshack.us/i/da21080pdx10high.jpg/

Is the demo locked to DX9? I was able to put it into DX10 on High settings (1920x1080) and it looked pretty good, not to mention silky smooth frame rate.

Screen-shot below:

Sokol4ever

it's locked at medium dx9

Ive come to learn though whenever anything changes pc gamers will run to forums and blame consoles.

TerrorRizzing

Mike Laidlaw himself said that the game sold better on consoles so that is where the focus is going to be. I don't mind the fact that they are taking consoles more into consideration, I mind that they assume that console gamers want dumbed down RPG rather than something more deep and complex. I have a PS3 (in addition to the PC) and there is lack of serious WRPGs on the platform.

The demo is so much crap. Bugs and crashing... I think I'll come to accept the changes to the combat and abilities quickly though. I was afraid it might have changed as radically as from Mass Effect 1 to 2, but that doesn't seem to be the case.guynamedbilly

Not one crash yet myself :?

I really don't feel all that bad for prematurely talking crap about this game. Looks like i was right about most stuff. I'm never talking crap again though, sorry if i upset anyone.GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]The demo is so much crap. Bugs and crashing... I think I'll come to accept the changes to the combat and abilities quickly though. I was afraid it might have changed as radically as from Mass Effect 1 to 2, but that doesn't seem to be the case.kozzy1234

Not one crash yet myself :?

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]The demo is so much crap. Bugs and crashing... I think I'll come to accept the changes to the combat and abilities quickly though. I was afraid it might have changed as radically as from Mass Effect 1 to 2, but that doesn't seem to be the case.kozzy1234

Not one crash yet myself :?

Pros:

-Music

-Faster combat

-Interface seems better

Cons:

-No isometric camera

-Medium graphics look awful

-Fireball on a level one mage? Really?

-Virtually no cast time? Really?

-Is it just me or did the number of spells for mages just decrease by a branch or two?

-Combat is so cluttered...have a hard time making out particular enemies because of stupid camera and the fact that I have to mouse over them to identify them

Overall:

Not really impressed. Feels too consolized, lost alot of depth from Origins. Everything seems to easy now (Instant cast Fireball on level 1 mage, rofl) I think I might pass on this one.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

I really don't feel all that bad for prematurely talking crap about this game. Looks like i was right about most stuff. I'm never talking crap again though, sorry if i upset anyone.biggest_loser

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]The demo is so much crap. Bugs and crashing... I think I'll come to accept the changes to the combat and abilities quickly though. I was afraid it might have changed as radically as from Mass Effect 1 to 2, but that doesn't seem to be the case.kozzy1234

Not one crash yet myself :?

The level design reminded me of this.

GeneralShowzer

The funny thing is that in DA2, it is EXACTLY like that. EXACTLY with no exaggeration whatsoever.

I think the demo is pretty prone to crashing running it maxed out on the DX11 settings they allow.bonafidetk

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

The level design reminded me of this.

dakan45

The funny thing is that in DA2, it is EXACTLY like that. EXACTLY with no exaggeration whatsoever.

Sound seems soild. I noticed no problems. The sexy british accent for the female main is a nice touch.

Graphics are ok. The main character looks good. So do the team mates. The darkspawn looked like B-movie actors wearing masks.

Action ... Ugh. I was having a hard time focusing on the fight and controlling the camera. The combat animations for my rogue were jerky. All the movements for the other characters seems smooth.

I ending up quiting early because I was bored.

The over abundance of cutscenes had a way for throwing off the flow of the game too.

[QUOTE="dakan45"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

The level design reminded me of this.

guynamedbilly

The funny thing is that in DA2, it is EXACTLY like that. EXACTLY with no exaggeration whatsoever.

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"] if you only played for 10 minutes - the first fight with the ogre when it's just you and the mage you're fairly skilled up, have nearly unlimited energy, and as far as i can tell also auto-heal so it's sort of impossible to die (i went afk for a few minutes and came back still alive). when you play on past the second flash-forward it goes to the 'real' ogre fight.

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

[QUOTE="Lord_DoDo56"]Flame shield on! Okay, Call me weird, but I kinda like the approach Bioware is taking. I noticed that DA2 was more actiony and that's something I find attractive. There is something about waiting for my character to run over and start an attacking animation that doesn't grab my attention. The graphics are okay, but I feel that it looks like Mass Effect 1 a bit. Idk, maybe I'm expecting too much? Overall, the demo was okay, but it has me interested in buying the full release.Makari

Now that I'm done critisicing the camera I'll go ahead and partially agree with you. I'd rather have them do something that is a little more actioney while being inspired by WoW than reuse what was clearly Bioware's (inferior) take on ADnD.

I was referring to actual combat. It feels not unlike World of Warcraft with less casting bars.

I was referring to actual combat. It feels not unlike World of Warcraft with less casting bars.Filthybastrd

I have pretty mixed feelings on the DA2 demo. It was fun and I'm sure the end title will be qualit, but it does feel like a big step backwards. I think the biggest disapoint for me is that it "felt" like the game series has gone from a very tactical RPG to an action game. It did not feel like I was playing an RPG anymore and that makes me sad because DA : O was one of my favorite games of all time.

Some other issues were the very obvious consolized controls and the (downgraded?) graphics. I hear graphics may be improved in the final build, so I will hold off on that one, but the controls and UI is disapointing. I gave so much praise to Bioware in the past 1.5 years because they went out of there way to make seperate control and UI schemes for both console and PC. Seems they have gone the way of lazy now and PC users will suffer for it.

Not sure if I will be buying yet. Will wait for more info.

[QUOTE="dakan45"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

The level design reminded me of this.

guynamedbilly

The funny thing is that in DA2, it is EXACTLY like that. EXACTLY with no exaggeration whatsoever.

You guys are basing it off of a 20 minute demo.. Really?

I have pretty mixed feelings on the DA2 demo. It was fun and I'm sure the end title will be qualit, but it does feel like a big step backwards. I think the biggest disapoint for me is that it "felt" like the game series has gone from a very tactical RPG to an action game. It did not feel like I was playing an RPG anymore and that makes me sad because DA : O was one of my favorite games of all time.

Some other issues were the very obvious consolized controls and the (downgraded?) graphics. I hear graphics may be improved in the final build, so I will hold off on that one, but the controls and UI is disapointing. I gave so much praise to Bioware in the past 1.5 years because they went out of there way to make seperate control and UI schemes for both console and PC. Seems they have gone the way of lazy now and PC users will suffer for it.

Not sure if I will be buying yet. Will wait for more info.

mkaliaz

[QUOTE="mkaliaz"]

I have pretty mixed feelings on the DA2 demo. It was fun and I'm sure the end title will be qualit, but it does feel like a big step backwards. I think the biggest disapoint for me is that it "felt" like the game series has gone from a very tactical RPG to an action game. It did not feel like I was playing an RPG anymore and that makes me sad because DA : O was one of my favorite games of all time.

Some other issues were the very obvious consolized controls and the (downgraded?) graphics. I hear graphics may be improved in the final build, so I will hold off on that one, but the controls and UI is disapointing. I gave so much praise to Bioware in the past 1.5 years because they went out of there way to make seperate control and UI schemes for both console and PC. Seems they have gone the way of lazy now and PC users will suffer for it.

Not sure if I will be buying yet. Will wait for more info.

kieranb2000

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]

[QUOTE="dakan45"]

The funny thing is that in DA2, it is EXACTLY like that. EXACTLY with no exaggeration whatsoever.

sSubZerOo

You guys are basing it off of a 20 minute demo.. Really?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"] Certainly, but most of the story driven missions in DA:O were too. Anyone know if it has a choose your next mission map like the first did?

guynamedbilly

You guys are basing it off of a 20 minute demo.. Really?

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

You guys are basing it off of a 20 minute demo.. Really?

Elann2008

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"] Why would you even waste time downloading a demo if you didn't think it was representative of the final product? If you are asking if I think DA2 will be very similar to DA:O as far as mission paths go yes I do, because of the 20 minute demo, the way DA:O was designed, and Bioware's recent history.Empirefrtw

My thoughts and impressions?

Most definetly not spending my money on this. It's not bad but I was never much into JRPGs and console RPGs. DA 2 really looks and plays like a "hardcore" XBox rpg. I still think this should have been a spin-off not a sequel

First off I love demos and wish all games had them, now my2 cents:

Pros:

• Graphics are much better. Characters look great, the women are spectacular, lots of diverse personalities. Facial animations are great compared to DAO.
• Sound effects were crisp and dynamic. Voice acting was great and on par with DAO.
• Combat is faster and more dynamic. I feel like my rogue and warrior have more of an impact on combat and better tactics. Rogue especially is much better, they sucked in DAO.
• I like the dialogue wheel and actually hearing my Character talk.
• More gore, always a plus!
• Skill trees and hotbar is a great improvement over DAO, imo.
• I have no problem with a linear storyline, in fact I prefer it over a sandbox game as the storylines are always better.

Cons:

• No isometric view: I really did miss the tactical feel of iso view. This wasn't so much of an issue playing a fighter or Rogue but it was when I played a mage.
• combat does seem easier but its just the demo and I won't expect them to include really tough battles. I had no problem with the battles, especially the ogre as I kept him stunned most of the time.
• While I enjoyed the dialogue wheel and hearing my Character, the actual dialogue was pretty simplified.
• I still miss being able to queue actions/attacks, not sure why they can't do this

Neutral comments (haven't decided if pro or con):

• lots more pausing needed in order to control each character
• Feels like much more of an action game
• lots of cut scenes in the demo, which gave it a very 'movie' feel.

Conclusion:

The more I played it, the more I got used to the visuals and combat and I genuinely enjoyed the demo. Pausing and being more 'tactical' became easier and I missed the iso view less and less the more I played (but I did miss it a lot when playing a mage). I will buy this game but if I can hold out I will wait for the inevitable 'GOTY' edition.

[QUOTE="Elann2008"] It does reflect the main game, but he clearly said it's a representation of the final product, which I think is wrong. Old build or not, it's up to you to differentiate the two. And if you do so choose to take an old build demo as something written in stone, then I really don't know what to say. From what I'm gathering in these forums, I'm reading comments like, "I"m not buying this game, it's too much action. Nothing like DAO." etc. guynamedbilly

DRM Info was posted on the Bioware forums recently. . .

Below are the details of the final version of DRM that will be used with Dragon Age 2 for PC and Mac.

We appreciate your patience and feedback on this. DRM is always a topic of much debate, even internally. It requires a delicate balance between providing some level of IP protection while minimizing the inconvenience or intrusion to a player's experience. These decisions are not made lightly - and a lot of time and effort was dedicated to ensuring that the system for DA2 is skewed to the player side of the experience. It is as follows:

Dragon Age 2 Physical & Digital PC/Mac DRM are as follows:
No disc check, you do not need the disc in drive to play.

No limit on the total number of PCs you can install the game on.

There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can play the game within a time window (if online) [5 PCs in 24hrs].

After each new install there is a 1-time online check needed the next time you play, requiring a log in to your EA account to verify game ownership. If you are a member of these forums, you already have an EA account – just use the same email/password.

You can play offline thereafter - the game will NOT require any subsequent login checks. If online, a game ownership check happens each time you play.

Steam versions use Steam DRM, no other DRM is added, which means:
No disc check, it is used for digital game versions purchased from Steam only.

No limit to the total number of PCs you can install the game on.

There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can play the game at any one time (if online) [1 PC].

Each install requires logging into your Steam account to verify game ownership.

You can play offline thereafter. If online, a game ownership check happens each time you play.

Steam pre-loads use Steam release control – you will not be able to play until the release day/time has passed for that region.

Dragon Age 2 Release Control (non-Steam versions)
Does not use securom.

It does not install anything to the PC.

Sole purpose is to check with a server to validate whether the game release date has passed or not.

It completely removes itself after the game release date has passed.

You will not be able to play until that date has passed.

Dates & times are set to the retail street date per country.Chris Priestly

Looks good to me.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="Elann2008"] It does reflect the main game, but he clearly said it's a representation of the final product, which I think is wrong. Old build or not, it's up to you to differentiate the two. And if you do so choose to take an old build demo as something written in stone, then I really don't know what to say. From what I'm gathering in these forums, I'm reading comments like, "I"m not buying this game, it's too much action. Nothing like DAO." etc. Elann2008

DRM Info was posted on the Bioware forums recently. . .

[QUOTE="Chris Priestly"]Below are the details of the final version of DRM that will be used with Dragon Age 2 for PC and Mac.

We appreciate your patience and feedback on this. DRM is always a topic of much debate, even internally. It requires a delicate balance between providing some level of IP protection while minimizing the inconvenience or intrusion to a player's experience. These decisions are not made lightly - and a lot of time and effort was dedicated to ensuring that the system for DA2 is skewed to the player side of the experience. It is as follows:

Dragon Age 2 Physical & Digital PC/Mac DRM are as follows:
No disc check, you do not need the disc in drive to play.

No limit on the total number of PCs you can install the game on.

There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can play the game within a time window (if online) [5 PCs in 24hrs].

After each new install there is a 1-time online check needed the next time you play, requiring a log in to your EA account to verify game ownership. If you are a member of these forums, you already have an EA account – just use the same email/password.

You can play offline thereafter - the game will NOT require any subsequent login checks. If online, a game ownership check happens each time you play.

Steam versions use Steam DRM, no other DRM is added, which means:
No disc check, it is used for digital game versions purchased from Steam only.

No limit to the total number of PCs you can install the game on.

There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can play the game at any one time (if online) [1 PC].

Each install requires logging into your Steam account to verify game ownership.

You can play offline thereafter. If online, a game ownership check happens each time you play.

Steam pre-loads use Steam release control – you will not be able to play until the release day/time has passed for that region.

Dragon Age 2 Release Control (non-Steam versions)
Does not use securom.

It does not install anything to the PC.

Sole purpose is to check with a server to validate whether the game release date has passed or not.

It completely removes itself after the game release date has passed.

You will not be able to play until that date has passed.

Dates & times are set to the retail street date per country.Oodama_Rasengan

Looks good to me.

I actually miss the iso camera too. I want to play Dragon Age 2 on nightmare and I don't think I'll be able to micromanage quite as well.