Dragon Age 2, the spiritual successor to Mass Effect 2

http://blog.bioware.com/2010/11/05/dragon-age-2-podcast-episode-5-ethan-levy-and-mike-laidlaw/

Today BioWare announced DA2 will use ME2's format of unique armor for party members. So for 10 years party members will wear the exact same thing during dozens of battles.

WTF is this? I understand completely for ME2, but this is disgrace! They are removing feature after feature that made Dragon Age special, and that includes selecting the clothing/armor-type for your party characters as well!

I am deeply disappointed.

You can still customize weapons, amulets, belts, rings as well as put in armor runes to enchant the armor. Also each character will change their clothes over the span of 10 years at different points in the framed narrative story. So technically DA2 is still DA2 and not ME2 in any way.

http://blog.bioware.com/2010/11/05/dragon-age-2-podcast-episode-5-ethan-levy-and-mike-laidlaw/

Today BioWare announced DA2 will use ME2's format of unique armor for party members. So for 10 years party members will wear the exact same thing during dozens of battles.

DarthBlackAdder

Also each character will change their clothes over the span of 10 years at different points in the framed narrative story.ralph2190

Unique armor doesn't mean that you won't be able to find additional armor for specific party members during the course of the game.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

No, devs confirmed on the official forums that they have only one armor each. You only upgrade their stats. Visually they stay the same

You can still customize weapons, amulets, belts, rings as well as put in armor runes to enchant the armor. Also each character will change their clothes over the span of 10 years at different points in the framed narrative story. So technically DA2 is still DA2 and not ME2 in any way.

ralph2190

Don't listen to them Fido it's because of their blind hate for the game. DA II = Orrings ;)

Only teh consoles are getting dumbed down version.

Lol i remember when they said "Dragon Age origins = Baldurs gate 2 spiritual successor"

Then they failed so hard :(...

Now they moved over to Mass Effect... Well atleast they wont have to keep the standards as high then.

Basicly i wished Bioware would take the game forward... Instead they take steps backwards...

*Less stratedgy in battles

*Conversation wheel (i want to know what MY character will say)

*Less choices on looks, stats, skills...

*The game will be shorter...

Oh well... Atleast we will get DLC (BLERGH).

No, devs confirmed on the official forums that they have only one armor each. You only upgrade their stats. Visually they stay the same

Darth_Kane

ohh you're right, I just saw Mike Laidlaw's post. The way he described it in the podcast was a mistake I guess. Still it's not too bad though, I like my followers having unique looks. Also I think I must have spend countless hours trying to divide up the best gear among my party in Origins. Besides, we still get to customize Hawke completely like in Origins, so we get the best of both worlds.

WTF is this? I understand completely for ME2, but this is disgrace! They are removing feature after feature that made Dragon Age special, and that includes selecting the clothing/armor-type for your party characters as well!

I am deeply disappointed.

The_Capitalist

You get upgrades now,the body meshes are "unique",so I guess "Alternate appearence pack",style DLC`s,and If we get lucky 2-3 outfits during the game.

Only teh consoles are getting dumbed down version.

GeneralShowzer

Atleast we agree on something :)

[QUOTE="Darth_Kane"]

No, devs confirmed on the official forums that they have only one armor each. You only upgrade their stats. Visually they stay the same

ralph2190

ohh you're right, I just saw Mike Laidlaw's post. The way he described it in the podcast was a mistake I guess. Still it's not too bad though, I like my followers having unique looks. Also I think I must have spend countless hours trying to divide up the best gear among my party in Origins. Besides, we still get to customize Hawke completely like in Origins, so we get the best of both worlds.

IMO ME2>DAO>ME1, but I really didn't like the way they handled armor for party members in ME2.

I don't mind having unique armor for party members, as long as there's at least 5 unique armors for each party member, but as it is, with DA2 spanning 10 years and having only one armor for each squad mate, this seems worse than ME2's way.

I hope the LIs atleast take off their clothes when they're doing it. Anywhere else, it don't matter ;)

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

Only teh consoles are getting dumbed down version.

ralph2190

Atleast we agree on something :)

For something be a spiritual successor dont you need the original to not have a successor to begin with (aka ME3)alextherussian

I am not happy about this news at all. This just takes me back to how horrible the idea of an armory was in Mass Effect 2. LAME. I'm at the point where I think I'll buy this game USED if they continue to pour on more crappy news on how they f'ed the game up.

This makes me sad.

The reason WHY I love Dragon Age is because of the strategical combat, and the difficulty (Story and characters too, but DA 2 probably won't disappoint on that front)

I don't like the direction DA2 is going in. Sure it could be an awesome game in its own right (and I will probably buy it), but what made me love Dragon Age: Origins so much seems to be entirely removed.

This makes me sad.

The reason WHY I love Dragon Age is because of the strategical combat, and the difficulty (Story and characters too, but DA 2 probably won't disappoint on that front)

I don't like the direction DA2 is going in. Sure it could be an awesome game in its own right (and I will probably buy it), but what made me love Dragon Age: Origins so much seems to be entirely removed.

scottahuch

How can you not understand this? The game has been dumbed down to the core, it doesn't matter if the PC version has quick bars. All versions are the same OK? On consoles it will be an action title with minimal cRPG elements and good/bad choices. On PC it will be be an action title with minimal cRPG elements and good/bad choices AND quickbars AND isometric view. Will please someone explain this to him? GeneralShowzer

You never stop, do you? You want to go ahead and continue hating a game which is not even out yet, go right ahead. I'm just sick and tired of you going on every DA2 thread and trying to convince everyone in the world that you are right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. End of Story.

[QUOTE="alextherussian"]For something be a spiritual successor dont you need the original to not have a successor to begin with (aka ME3)Elann2008

I am not happy about this news at all. This just takes me back to how horrible the idea of an armory was in Mass Effect 2. LAME. I'm at the point where I think I'll buy this game USED if they continue to pour on more crappy news on how they f'ed the game up.

There's not going to be an ME2-like armory in DA2. We will have the same loot and inventory system from Origins and be able to equip new weapons, rings, amulets and belts at any time. The only difference is that party members have fixed body armor whereas it is still modular for Hawke. Remember how similar Alistair and the PC looked like in full Cailan armor? I think they are changing up DA2 to avoid issues like that and to give a unique look/identity to the followers.

[QUOTE="ralph2190"]

Also each character will change their clothes over the span of 10 years at different points in the framed narrative story.Darth_Kane

Unique armor doesn't mean that you won't be able to find additional armor for specific party members during the course of the game.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

No, devs confirmed on the official forums that they have only one armor each. You only upgrade their stats. Visually they stay the same

[QUOTE="Darth_Kane"]

[QUOTE="ralph2190"]

[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"]

Unique armor doesn't mean that you won't be able to find additional armor for specific party members during the course of the game.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

No, devs confirmed on the official forums that they have only one armor each. You only upgrade their stats. Visually they stay the same

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/5178592&lf=8

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse. I know I'll be passing on this one at least until the ultimate-game-of-the-year-diamond edition hits the bargain bin for $9 or so. What a shame too. DA:O, while definitely not a great game, restored a little of the faith I had lost in Bioware.

Bioware is now EA's lapdog and a console developer pure and simple.

Lol i remember when they said "Dragon Age origins = Baldurs gate 2 spiritual successor"

Then they failed so hard :(...

Now they moved over to Mass Effect... Well atleast they wont have to keep the standards as high then.

Basicly i wished Bioware would take the game forward... Instead they take steps backwards...

*Less stratedgy in battles

*Conversation wheel (i want to know what MY character will say)

*Less choices on looks, stats, skills...

*The game will be shorter...

Oh well... Atleast we will get DLC (BLERGH).

KalDurenik

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse. I know I'll be passing on this one at least until the ultimate-game-of-the-year-diamond edition hits the bargain bin for $9 or so. What a shame too. DA:O, while definitely not a great game, restored a little of the faith I had lost in Bioware.

Bioware is now EA's lapdog and a console developer pure and simple.

-wildflower-

Sounds cool :) Can't wait!

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

For something be a spiritual successor dont you need the original to not have a successor to begin with (aka ME3)alextherussian

I am not happy about this news at all. This just takes me back to how horrible the idea of an armory was in Mass Effect 2. LAME. I'm at the point where I think I'll buy this game USED if they continue to pour on more crappy news on how they f'ed the game up.

There's not going to be an ME2-like armory in DA2. We will have the same loot and inventory system from Origins and be able to equip new weapons, rings, amulets and belts at any time. The only difference is that party members have fixed body armor whereas it is still modular for Hawke. Remember how similar Alistair and the PC looked like in full Cailan armor? I think they are changing up DA2 to avoid issues like that and to give a unique look/identity to the followers.

what im getting is DA 2 = ME 2 medieval version

and what great rpg have you played recently, dare I ask?SkyWard20

Great RPGs? Recently? Like in the past 5 or so years? From a Big Developer? :lol:

There have been some decent RPGs (DA:O being one of them) and a few good ones (The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer come to mind) but there hasn't been a great RPG released in about 10 years or so, at least not one from a mainstream developer. Modern (so-called) RPGs are now being designed for twitch-gamers and people who actually don't like RPGs who need an endless stream of shiny cut-scenes and the ability to press a button and have "something cool happen."

At least there are indie developers willing to step up and fill the void while the big companies continue pandering to the lowest common denominator. Age of Decadence and Dead State can't get here soon enough as far as I'm concerned but until then there's still things like the Eschalon games, Spider Web Software games and the odd, decent, big-name release like FO:NV to keep me occupied.

It's all good.

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse. I know I'll be passing on this one at least until the ultimate-game-of-the-year-diamond edition hits the bargain bin for $9 or so. What a shame too. DA:O, while definitely not a great game, restored a little of the faith I had lost in Bioware.

Bioware is now EA's lapdog and a console developer pure and simple.

-wildflower-

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] and what great rpg have you played recently, dare I ask?-wildflower-

Great RPGs? Recently? Like in the past 5 or so years? From a Big Developer? :lol:

There have been some decent RPGs (DA:O being one of them) and a few good ones (The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer come to mind) but there hasn't been a great RPG released in about 10 years or so, at least not one from a mainstream developer. Modern (so-called) RPGs are now being designed for twitch-gamers and people who actually don't like RPGs who need an endless stream of shiny cut-scenes and the ability to press a button and have "something cool happen."

At least there are indie developers willing to step up and fill the void while the big companies continue pandering to the lowest common denominator. Age of Decadence and Dead State can't get here soon enough as far as I'm concerned but until then there's still things like the Eschalon games, Spider Web Software games and the odd, decent, big-name release like FO:NV to keep me occupied.

It's all good.

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse. I know I'll be passing on this one at least until the ultimate-game-of-the-year-diamond edition hits the bargain bin for $9 or so. What a shame too. DA:O, while definitely not a great game, restored a little of the faith I had lost in Bioware.

Bioware is now EA's lapdog and a console developer pure and simple.

-wildflower-

Would you rather they not have a publisher and close down? Besides, EA's job is basically marketing and business side, development is all BioWare. There's no one influencing the programmers and writers. And another thing, BioWare is one of the few companies that develop console and PC versions separately. They develop for consoles, but that does not make them a primary console developer.

Anyway, can we give the console talk a rest? You dont see people talking about xbox 360 in every ps3 thread...TerrorRizzing

Why? Consoles are affecting PC gaming. 10-15 years ago they weren't but now they are so it's actually very relevant, especially as it pertains to the RPG genre. The decline and oversimplification of the cRPG is directly related with the onset of the last two generations of consoles.

Before the last two generations, (and this is probably most true of the last generation of consoles) computer games and console games were very (VERY) different. They were developed by different companies, they had vastly different game-play and different aims. PC games were generally deeper and more complex games with steeper learning curves while console games were typically easier to pick up and play (not that there's anyting wrong with that style of game-play either).

With the advent of multi-platform development PC gaming has suffered. So, while it may not be relevant to talk about how the 360 is affecting the PS3 it is absolutely relevant to talk about how it has affected gaming on the PC over the past 10 or so years. Again, I am mostly talking from a RPG player's point of view although I assume other genres have been equally impacted.

I'm sorry if you disagree.

Would you rather they not have a publisher and close down? Besides, EA's job is basically marketing and business side, development is all BioWare. There's no one influencing the programmers and writers. And another thing, BioWare is one of the few companies that develop console and PC versions separately. They develop for consoles, but that does not make them a primary console developer.ralph2190

Uhm, well, if Bioware continues to make the kinds of "RPGs" that they have for the past 10 years (excluding DA:O and NWN) I personally wouldn't care if they went the way of the Dodo, no. Then again, I'm a fan of games and not the companies that develop them. Honestly, I don't understand this whole groupie/rockstar relationship that gamers seem to have developed with developers these days. It's just bizarre and it seems much more in vogue lately than it has in the past.

Look, Black Isle is probably one of my favorite developers of all time but there's no way I am going to defend a game like Lionheart just because they helped make it. It's weird but gamers have turned into sports fans mindlessly cheering for whomever is currently wearing the jersey for their favorite team.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"] Anyway, can we give the console talk a rest? You dont see people talking about xbox 360 in every ps3 thread...-wildflower-

Why? Consoles are affecting PC gaming. 10-15 years ago they weren't but now they are so it's actually very relevant, especially as it pertains to the RPG genre. The decline and oversimplification of the cRPG is directly related with the onset of the last two generations of consoles.

Before the last two generations, (and this is probably most true of the last generation of consoles) computer games and console games were very (VERY) different. They were developed by different companies, they had vastly different game-play and different aims. PC games were generally deeper and more complex games with steeper learning curves while console games were typically easier to pick up and play (not that there's anyting wrong with that style of game-play either).

With the advent of multi-platform development PC gaming has suffered. So, while it may not be relevant to talk about how the 360 is affecting the PS3 it is absolutely relevant to talk about how it has affected gaming on the PC over the past 10 or so years. Again, I am mostly talking from a RPG player's point of view although I assume other genres have been equally impacted.

I'm sorry if you disagree.

Some how I knew something like this would happen just when I thought this might be a okay game I poke out my head and then BOOM HEADSHOT goes bioware.

[QUOTE="ralph2190"]Would you rather they not have a publisher and close down? Besides, EA's job is basically marketing and business side, development is all BioWare. There's no one influencing the programmers and writers. And another thing, BioWare is one of the few companies that develop console and PC versions separately. They develop for consoles, but that does not make them a primary console developer.-wildflower-

Uhm, well, if Bioware continues to make the kinds of "RPGs" that they have for the past 10 years (excluding DA:O and NWN) I personally wouldn't care if they went the way of the Dodo, no. Then again, I'm a fan of games and not the companies that develop them. Honestly, I don't understand this whole groupie/rockstar relationship that gamers seem to have developed with developers these days. It's just bizarre and it seems much more in vogue lately than it has in the past.

Look, Black Isle is probably one of my favorite developers of all time but there's no way I am going to defend a game like Lionheart just because they helped make it. It's weird but gamers have turned into sports fans mindlessly cheering for whomever is currently wearing the jersey for their favorite team.

Ive been playing PC games since the DOS days and I think games are much immersive now then they were then. You talk like it's a fact that games are being "oversimplified" or "have less depth". It's not a fact, it's your own opinion. Alot of older hardcore gamers enjoy the direction PC gaming is moving. I think Mass Effect is probably one of the best RPG's ive ever played but I also love Icewindale and Neverwinter nights. Just because it's different dosen't mean it's not as good.

Yeah.... games were really different 10-15 years ago. Evolution, change, growth, whatever you want to call it. Gaming is always gonna be changing, it's a form of entertainment. You either need to accept the change and see what really is amazing about the new direction or just quit because the further we go along, the further those old classics you think are so much better will fade away.

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse.

-wildflower-

Agreed. Every single thing they announce is causing a stir - even on their own forums, which seem to be full of their most die-hard fans - and they still haven't announced a single RPG-related area that they've improved.

I'm sort of surprised that they haven't just made this console exclusive, and bundled a demo for it with Medal of Honor.

Fanboys were always arround.... guess you never noticed or you're talking out of your ass maybe? Games were not "deeper" or more complex back in the day... they're just as easy to pick up as newer games, maybe even easier. A hard learning curve is never really good... the goal is to make the learning curve gradual and easier without reducing the complexity of the game.

Prexxus

Are you honestly trying to say that Mass Effect 2 is as complex, gameplay-wise, as Icewind Dale? Or that Dragon Age is as complex as Baldurs Gate 2?

Heck the last two of those can be empirically compared - Dragon Age clearly has less c|asses, less party members, less enemy types, less spells, less races...less of everything. What it has kept it has generally made more visually appealing, true, but there's no way that Dragon Age is more deep or complex than Baldurs Gate 2.

And Dragon Age 2 is continuing that trend. They're reducing the options for party member armour. They've removed the option of having different races, which was their big selling point for the first game. They even seem to have removed depth from the gameplay (yes yes, I know, we can still hack'n'slash with the mouse in isometric view).

Even if it's a more immersive game, so what? Why not use this new technology to make something more complex, gameplay-wise?

...well, I think I know the answer to that, actually. The more expensive these games are, the less risks they have to take, and the wider the audience needs to be. So the more expensive and flashy everything is, the more dumbed down it needs to be to compensate. That's nothing new though - most companies have been doing that this gen.

"Dragon Effect 2" confirmed. Disappointing. Still, not much is known about the game in general and the PC version specifically, so there is much more to reveal, some of which might cheer me up a bit. Should still be a good game, though. The thought of "Dragon Effect 2" isn't all bad to me, since I'm playing Mass Effect 2 right now and I'm having a hard time trying to stop playing it because it's so good. I'm disappointed because I just don't think a "Dragon Effect 2" is what a Dragon Age game should be about. I feel like I'm getting a spin-off, rather than a proper sequel.madrocketeer

This is the PC version.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="ralph2190"]Would you rather they not have a publisher and close down? Besides, EA's job is basically marketing and business side, development is all BioWare. There's no one influencing the programmers and writers. And another thing, BioWare is one of the few companies that develop console and PC versions separately. They develop for consoles, but that does not make them a primary console developer.Prexxus

Uhm, well, if Bioware continues to make the kinds of "RPGs" that they have for the past 10 years (excluding DA:O and NWN) I personally wouldn't care if they went the way of the Dodo, no. Then again, I'm a fan of games and not the companies that develop them. Honestly, I don't understand this whole groupie/rockstar relationship that gamers seem to have developed with developers these days. It's just bizarre and it seems much more in vogue lately than it has in the past.

Look, Black Isle is probably one of my favorite developers of all time but there's no way I am going to defend a game like Lionheart just because they helped make it. It's weird but gamers have turned into sports fans mindlessly cheering for whomever is currently wearing the jersey for their favorite team.

Ive been playing PC games since the DOS days and I think games are much immersive now then they were then. You talk like it's a fact that games are being "oversimplified" or "have less depth". It's not a fact, it's your own opinion. Alot of older hardcore gamers enjoy the direction PC gaming is moving. I think Mass Effect is probably one of the best RPG's ive ever played but I also love Icewindale and Neverwinter nights. Just because it's different dosen't mean it's not as good.

Yeah.... games were really different 10-15 years ago. Evolution, change, growth, whatever you want to call it. Gaming is always gonna be changing, it's a form of entertainment. You either need to accept the change and see what really is amazing about the new direction or just quit because the further we go along, the further those old classics you think are so much better will fade away.

whoever says games complexity, depth and overall quality is the same as 10 years ago is lying to themselves, today's games have nothing on old games, take for example the almost perfect score dragon age, and take one of the last good rpgs neverwinter nights, compare character creation in both, and realize there are actual differences in classes and races of nwn 2 not just +2 dex and some random useless dialogue.

whoever says games complexity, depth and overall quality is the same as 10 years ago is lying to themselves, today's games have nothing on old games, take for example the almost perfect score dragon age, and take one of the last good rpgs neverwinter nights, compare character creation in both, and realize there are actual differences in classes and races of nwn 2 not just +2 dex and some random useless dialogue.

Krelian-co

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

Lol i remember when they said "Dragon Age origins = Baldurs gate 2 spiritual successor"

Then they failed so hard :(...

Now they moved over to Mass Effect... Well atleast they wont have to keep the standards as high then.

Basicly i wished Bioware would take the game forward... Instead they take steps backwards...

*Less stratedgy in battles

*Conversation wheel (i want to know what MY character will say)

*Less choices on looks, stats, skills...

*The game will be shorter...

Oh well... Atleast we will get DLC (BLERGH).

SkyWard20

Dragon Effect 2, indeed.

I actually enjoyed the Mass Effect series a lot...but not every game has to be Mass Effect. Variety would be nice...Its nice to have a streamlined RPG to play (Mass Effect) but its also nice to have the choice to play a deeper RPG experience (what DA should be).

All these talk of catering to a large audience is a little lame, imho.

Being hugely appealing to masses does'nt necessarily mean quality or advancement.

Maybe they should implement God of War style gameplay and skillsets, I mean, that series sold a TON, isn't it? Awesome cutscenes, explosive hack-n-slash combat, you can even learn new skills or level them up! WOW! RPG!!!And add in some CINEMATIC QTE sequences! So AWESOME! Millions of sales confirmed!!!

I'm sure the masses will LOVE God of Effect 3 : Dragon War Origin!!!!!

:evil: Dragon Effect, my butt. You guys cannot recognize a great RPG when you see one. Judging a freaking book by its cover, even when you know for sure that the author has not disappointed you before, EVER.

Well after years of gaming i sure can recognize not just a great RPG, but i can also recognize an RPG. And this my friend with that kind of combat and Mass Effect like game mechanics is starting to look less and less like one. Even previews are comparing it to GOW or even Ninja Gaiden.

Are you aware that when you press the attack button there is no waiting and no roll...Instant attack happens, no turn based combat. If that's not enough to tell you what this game is turning into then i don't know.