EPIC says PC gaming is dead...

I've been a PC gamer for over 10 years, and I can't really blame EPIC games to go where the grass is greener:

The PC market is smaller than each individual console markets.

Technical difficulties is less of an issue thanks to users having a single specification.

PC gamers typically demand or expect more from their games.

Piracy is indeed a problem on PC. We PC gamers say that piracy on consoles is rampant as well, but at least a lot more people are BUYING the products on consoles. So it's not a good argument as PC sales = low and PC piracy = high is a bad thing for any developers.

This thread continues with the whole circle of death: Developers blame piracy, and PC gamers blame it on developers. The cycle goes on, but ultimately, it will be the developers that will win as they can easily pull out of the PC market and focus on consoles only where most of the money is. It's even more apparent when PC gamers go on and shun these developers as if we are better off without them. Well if we go on and let PC sales continue to have low sales, PC piracy being extremely high, blaming developers if they decide to combat piracy, shunning developers if they leave PC, then we'll become one of those console platforms in the old days that rely only only very few developers for AAA games.

As for the EPIC's departure, I would have to say that it's a very huge blow to PC gaming. Not because of the games that Epic has developed in the past, but the fact that Epic is the developer of the Unreal engines which A LOT, I MEAN A LOT of games today use. It is one of the most widely used game engines and so you'd have to worry what this could mean for the future of the Unreal engine on PC.

It's funny seeing this thread because I was so maddend reading this article I spent 30mins ranting to my girlfriend about it last night (and no she didn't understand).

Anyway, you know that's not everything he said? It gets worse:

MIKE CAPPS: "...you're not going to be playing Baulder'sGate.It's just not going to be that way. It'll be a free-to-play, buy-your-potions-for-five-cents-online version, with user-created content [laughs]. Our childern will never know what they've lost. We're certainly not dooming-and-glooming over here.Piracy hurt, subscription is the answer. Used game sales are really, really hurting console - how many players never paid us for Gears? - and the response to that is people are putting more into DLC, retail-only download codes..."

• "Subscription is the answers"?!?!
• "How many people paid us for gears"?!?!?

WTF?

The way greed has swamped the industry I used to love sickens me. Yes money is important, yes they need to survive, but this kind of mentality (which the general public are allowing them to get away with),is ruining the games industry.

This problem isn't just about PC gaming, it's about the industry as a whole.

The enthusiast PC market is around the same size of a modern console's market, but has some five times the number of quality titles at minimum. Of course it's going to see less sales for individual games, much less worthless ones like Unreal Tournament 3.

[QUOTE="devious742"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"] That piracy is not the reason for the down fall of PC gaming. Why no RDR on the Pc? It is already a MP why not put it on the pc? Why no SSF4 o n the pc? SS4 was already released last year. Seems to me developers dont think the money they get from porting it is even worth the trouble anymore. Whatever Im not going to nitpick with you guys, its pointless. People reap what the sow.RyuRanVII

The last Epic game that I really liked was Unreal Tournament - the original.

I bought GoW on console, and couldn't finish it because I found it mind-numbingly repetitive and boring. Run to cover, peak, shoot. Rinse and repeat a thousand times in what basically amounts to 3D whack-a-mole. At that point I completely lost interest in anything Epic does, on any platform.

As for the comments about second-hand game sales - they can f*** off. If I want to sell a music CD that I no longer want, I can. If I want to sell on a DVD movie after I tire of it, I can. But suddenly we're all supposed to keep paying game developers every time we sell on a game? What ever happened to the free market?

So to all those game publishers and developers out there moaning about not getting money from second-hand game sales, just f*** off. Seriously.

Piracy is a problem on any platform(minus ps3) don't think anyone can deny that but its not the sole problem.

IMO the problem devs/publishers have with pc gaming is that they don't get the return on their investment within the first month of release with the huge sales console games often get in that period before they tend to vanish. On the other hand the pc market is a different beast in that theres a steady stream of sales with a long tail period and not all copies are sold within the first month. They could feasibly make the same money on both pc and console yet they'd choose console because they get their money back quicker.

Also didn't see you complain about that.

What i want to know is what indepent devs have supposedly been killed by piracy.

And Epic hasn't released a decent PC game in ages.

Am I seeing a pattern here?

Because he doesn't understand them FelipeInside. There's a lot of depth to be had with games like Street Fighter if you're open minded to see why they're popular games.OoSuperMarioO

There is a lot of depth to pong too if you like that kind of thing. Whether I liked or didn't like Street Fighter 2 or 600 is not the point. The point was that PC gamers hardly embrace beat em ups. It isn't a genre that sells on the PC just like RTS games are not widely embraced by console owners. So it is perfectly understandable that Capcom doesn't wish to go to the time and expense of porting another beat em up on the PC if there is not much demand for the game. However this is not an indication that the "PC is dying" it is an indication that erm well perhaps "PC gamers don't like beat em ups".

Its the normal thing to blame everything on pirates...

The world is ending! Blame the pirates

The game sucked! Blame the pirates

The game have27482348 bugs! Blame the pirates

See everything lead to the pirates in the end! What ever shall we do!?

Oh well :D

PC gaming says EPIC is dead

The problem here is greed. Gaming has hit a height now, where it's so popular and mainstream that it's possible to make gross amounts of cash off it. back in the day, on the PC platform I think it's fair to say. A lot of the good devs made games for the love of making games. And if they made good games they made enough money to be happy and enough money to make more good games. And that's the way it worked.

Now though, Game devs/pubs are not happy with marginal profit, or even "good" profit. They want the big bones, COD MW profit. And when they don't get that, their attitude is... "oh **** we haven't sold even 4 million copies, somethings wrong".. They know they can't make simple FPS on the PC and expect it to sell. So they jump to console and deem PC is dead. They also know they're not going to sell 4 million copies on PC unless it's a truly ground breaking game. One reason is piracy but it's also mainly because the PC user base is a more discerning owner. We not going to jump rabid over COD MW2 when we got so many other top notch FPS games on our platform. So what do they do, they go to console and make hardcore pc games, but dumb them down for console user base.

Piracy is least of the issues with PC. It's just that gaming has taking switch, it use to be a borderline artistic form of media. Now it's all just like hollywood pumping ***** film after ******* film out. Sequel after sequel etc.. PC owners are not interested in this. So devs are jumping ship.

I'm glad Epic quit the PC. It tells me they can't handle anything after 5-year-old GPUs. They are stuck technologically.

I'm glad Epic quit the PC. It tells me they can't handle anything after 5-year-old GPUs. They are stuck technologically.

topsemag55

Well Epic use to be on the fore front a long time ago a long with iD software. But it costs money to be leading the way in terms of tech. And they make plenty of money by developing engines for console market. Selling their engines onto other console devs for then ext five years. And they make loads of profit also by creating simple stylish third person shooters, such as Gears -which sell for millions. But wouldn't see the light of day on PC. Because PC user base are not going to be entertained much, by a simple third person shooter with ****** net code.

UT3 didn't do that great on all platforms. And that's because UT3 formula hasn't changed much since the orginal UT back in 1999. Actually its just gotten worse. PC owners are bored of it. And the game was too complex for console user base. Nothing to do with piracy.

I can not understand Epics line of thought here.

The only game which Epic released this gen on all three systems sold just as bad on each system (about 500k). When the numbers first came out for the PC sales Epic blamed piracy, yet they have yet they offer no reason why it sold just as bad on both consoles. This to me lends the argument that some developers/publisher just use piracy as an excuse for poor sales on PC, because they know there will be no one to challenge them on it.

Now lets talk about their other game Gears. There are a number of reason that game was such a success on the 360 and did not do so well on the PC.

1) The 360 version had the full backing of MS behind it with huge exposure given to it by MS at every game event and actually advertising the game to hell and back.

2) The game came a year later on the PC, with very little fanfare.

3) They ignored the most successful means of distributing the game (DD) and then stopped publishing the game (you can not find a copy of Gears of War for PC in shops anymore, while they still sell the 360 version).

4) MS wanted to kill the Gears of War franchise on the PC.

However instead of actually exploring why UT3 sold badly on all three platforms or why Gears was not a huge success on the PC, they would rather just blame piracy and portray themselves as the injured victim.

I can not understand Epics line of thought here.

The only game which Epic released this gen on all three systems sold just as bad on each system (about 500k). When the numbers first came out for the PC sales Epic blamed piracy, yet they have yet they offer no reason why it sold just as bad on both consoles. This to me lends the argument that some developers/publisher just use piracy as an excuse for poor sales on PC, because they know there will be no one to challenge them on it.

Now lets talk about their other game Gears. There are a number of reason that game was such a success on the 360 and did not do so well on the PC.

1) The 360 version had the full backing of MS behind it with huge exposure given to it by MS at every game event and actually advertising the game to hell and back.

2) The game came a year later on the PC, with very little fanfare.

3) They ignored the most successful means of distributing the game (DD) and then stopped publishing the game (you can not find a copy of Gears of War for PC in shops anymore, while they still sell the 360 version).

4) MS wanted to kill the Gears of War franchise on the PC.

However instead of actually exploring why UT3 sold badly on all three platforms or why Gears was not a huge success on the PC, they would rather just blame piracy and portray themselves as the injured victim.

Philmon

no big deal, its not like theyre delivering a stream of top quality titles that we're missing out on. theyve made gears of war 2 since 2007 thats all i can think of

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]Cryostasis is a fantastic game. dakan45

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

I'm glad Epic quit the PC. It tells me they can't handle anything after 5-year-old GPUs. They are stuck technologically.

GeneralShowzer

They program graphics for the equivalent of the Radeon HD 2000 series and a modified 7800 GTX.

If they can't handle past that now, they won't in another 4 years.

Aside from that, nVidia has developed 6 additional GPU Series since the current consoles, and ATI most likely an equivalent amount.

Heres the funny fact that they dont tell about consoles,Renting, borowing, and people buying used games from places like Gamestop. Hurt them more then piracy, Like CoD:MW2 for example was pirated like crazy on 360 a month before release, "They the console devs" cant tell me that "all" console games are more profitable, when a game like MW2 with 200 million spent in advertisments. A console copy gets less profit then a Pc copy, and if its on steam its even a bigger gap. A Pubisher/Dev are luckly to bring in $20 profit per console copy, which means that if they had just the 360 version of MW2 they would just break even, earning very little profit. I dont havea problem companies go multiplatform but when they destroy quality of stories or the gameplay itself for consoler likings,With bugs, short changing the customer with DLC's less options , theres no excuse.

Its just GREED, and consolers are blind enough to fall right in line and ruin it for everyone else that wants something better.

EPIC is dead! And we don't need them.

Heres the funny fact that they dont tell about consoles,Renting, borowing, and people buying used games from places like Gamestop. Hurt them more then piracy, Like CoD:MW2 for example was pirated like crazy on 360 a month before release, "They the console devs" cant tell me that "all" console games are more profitable, when a game like MW2 with 200 million spent in advertisments. A console copy gets less profit then a Pc copy, and if its on steam its even a bigger gap. A Pubisher/Dev are luckly to bring in $20 profit per console copy, which means that if they had just the 360 version of MW2 they would just break even, earning very little profit. I dont havea problem companies go multiplatform but when they destroy quality of stories or the gameplay itself for consoler likings,With bugs, short changing the customer with DLC's less options , theres no excuse.

Its just GREED, and consolers are blind enough to fall right in line and ruin it for everyone else that wants something better.

04dcarraher

So much hate for the consoles, i just dont get your standards. I surelly have a more steady experiance playing those on the ps3 than playing avatar on the pc. Seriously perfomance seems random in that game.dakan45

[QUOTE="dakan45"]So much hate for the consoles, i just dont get your standards. I surelly have a more steady experiance playing those on the ps3 than playing avatar on the pc. Seriously perfomance seems random in that game.TerrorRizzing

I have not turned anything to anything.dakan45

Yes you do every single time you come into a thread it descends into "why dakan45 feels that everything ever done on the PC is not up to the consoles standards". In case you missed the name of this forum it is the PC and Mac Games forum, if you like the PS3 that much then there is a PS3 forum for you to post in.

You guys seem to has a huge hash between consoles and pc like pcs are made of gold and consoles from crap.dakan45

WOW you mean pc gamers, posting in the pc section of a forum have a hard on for the PC :roll: I don't like consoles, I don't begrudge people gaming on consoles if that is what they wish but when I come to a PC forum I get a bit annoyed when some one like you keeps trying to convince me that for some magical reason the PS3 can out perform modern PC hardware.

That is the issue here and your high standards. As i said i cant run games at so high resolutions and from what i checked in youtube gameplay videos, there is nothing wrong with my pc, its just that the resolutions and framerates you are referring are just not achievable on my hardware.dakan45

It isn't high standards (and I am sick of you bashing PC gamers for having high standards like it is a bad thing), the problem here is your expectations are different to what your hardware can do. No you can't max out games on your 9800gtx+ you are not MEANT too. However you can still get better settings, resolutions and framerates than the consoles on your 9800gtx+. Now if you are saying you can't then you are either lying or you have something seriously wrong with yout PC.

Now if you can't achieve the settings and resolutions we talk about on your hardware then that is your problem not ours. I have seen people posting they can play games on eye infinity systems using a res of 6000 x 1000 do I then start making comments in threads that PC gaming is crap just because MY pc can't do those resolutions ?

I have played Gears o war on both my pc and my 360 and i can say that the pc version was the best after pacth. If epic hates pc gaming so much then why we are getting Bulletstrom?? I know why. Because microsoft wanted a 360 exculsive so they paid epic for not release it on pc. But now that EA is the pubplisher there is no problem and Bulletstorm comes to pc. What epic will say if Bulletstorm succes on pc??

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]Cryostasis is a fantastic game. dakan45

there is difference between console and PC. console has limitation to alter or enjoy more. plus, you can't carry it when you go out to play it. PC (laptop) is only possible solution to enjoy myself. I know that console is popular, and companies make more money. but what game makers use for making game? it's freaking PC. do you think that you can create game by console box? in terms of business perspective, console make more sense. but there are still tons of PC gamers out there than console. PC game is dead? what an wrong prediction. I guess that EPIC game will be died soon. what's up with company name like that? EPIC. well, EPIC fails.

there is difference between console and PC. console has limitation to alter or enjoy more. plus, you can't carry it when you go out to play it. PC (laptop) is only possible solution to enjoy myself. I know that console is popular, and companies make more money. but what game makers use for making game? it's freaking PC. do you think that you can create game by console box? in terms of business perspective, console make more sense. but there are still tons of PC gamers out there than console. PC game is dead? what an wrong prediction. I guess that EPIC game will be died soon. what's up with company name like that? EPIC. well, EPIC fails.

archurban

LINK HERE

I really feel like hitting some sense into this guy.

On the forums one poster made a very good point. Console is where the money is cause they accept any poop game for $120, we PC gamers only accept quality. So for the designer it's easier, they make a regular/crappy console game and people will buy it, they make the SAME game for PC and we complain it's not to our standards.

I AM A PC GAMER AND PROUD OF IT EPIC

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="millerlight89"]Cryostasis is a fantastic game. chandu83

[QUOTE="wizdom"] I really don't care to be honest with you, some of you get work up over silly things, he is allowed to have his opinion, the truth is that 90% of game sales come from consoles so it's hard to argue with people about the whole pc gaming is dead comment, there will always be games that strive on the pc, but lets face it... more and more games are becoming multiplatform and there are very few pc exclusive games anymore.MadCat46

Nor does it take into account europe and asia where pc is much bigger.