QFTIt's rather sad that 2D Boy and Stardock have such high piracy rates tbh, if that's true.
I'm not getting my data anywhere, I'm just speculating chances.
If 90% of a game's population didn't exist (notice that some of those also buy the original game before and after pirating it), there would be many less reviews, much less people would talk about it, and much less people will eventually think "Is it really that good? Then I'll buy it" or "Oh, does it run on your PC? Then mine will surely work fine too, I was unsure about it" and the list goes on and on, without even talking about hardware manifacturers and 3rd party software companies (D2D, Steam, Xfire-like services with the chance of a premium membership, etc).
Is it wrong? Supposedly. Is it mean? Lol. Is it immoral? Lol again.
Would it really be better for companies if it didn't exist? Noone can tell as long as it doesn't happen. Something inside my head says no, something inside others' mind says yes. Still, reacting to it like "OMFG U THIEVING LAMERS" and not looking at the other side of the coin is wrong, too.
It's not like every developer is a greedy bastard, it's not like every pirate is a greedy bastard either.Mograine
explain pc pirating to me!
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I should point out that just because someone pirates a game does not mean they won't buy it. Also not everyone who pirates a game is going to even install and play it. The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate.
"I'm just speculating "
Exactly...the only side of the debate that actually has any facts and sense is the anti-piracy side.
"Would it really be better for companies if it didn't exist? "
Yes, it would. Just ask them. Ask them if they think massive piracy is good for business. I mean...is that even a serious question?
"It's not like every developer is a greedy bastard, it's not like every pirate is a greedy bastard either."
No, the people taking other people's hard work for free aren't greedy bastards... :roll:
It's time to screw your head on straight.
I should point out that just because someone pirates a game does not mean they won't buy it. Also not everyone who pirates a game is going to even install and play it. The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate.
True_Sounds
I'd like to point out that has been covered already ;)
"The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate."
It is accurate...and it has been confirmed by industry studies, looking at torrent downloads, as well as MANY developers experience (based off server requests, support ticketing, ect).
Where is YOUR evidence to disprove it?
"I'm just speculating "
Exactly...the only side of the debate that actually has any facts and sense is the anti-piracy side.
"Would it really be better for companies if it didn't exist? "
Yes, it would. Just ask them. Ask them if they think massive piracy is good for business. I mean...is that even a serious question?
"It's not like every developer is a greedy bastard, it's not like every pirate is a greedy bastard either."
No, the people taking other people's hard work for free aren't greedy bastards... :roll:
It's time to screw your head on straight.
lol
In my country on average every family (of 5) have atleast one person downloading stuff. Note "Ofc every family don't but its very close to every. And if they don't someone do it for them :P... Just go and ask any class at any school on who download and most of them will say they do.
Anyway... The nr of sold games are going up and the nr of downloaded games are also going up. If we would follow what the doom sayers have said about this we would not have any gaming company left.
Also...
Here in this country the "anti-piracy" group was celebrating the fact that when the new law came the downloaded rate went from sky high to ground low... But! it happen every year at that time. Also note that the nr of sold copies are going up in this country. But then again we are quiet a hardcore gaming country O.o
"You're assuming 100% or even 90% of downloaders are buyers" WRONG! I already covered that, which you ignored ;) "You get the facts from the people complaining about it" Who else should we get the facts from...the people profiting from piracy? And they don't just pull that number out of a hat you know...unlike YOU! "You get the facts from the people complaining about it. and you Believe every word. If i told you the sky was falling, and that my extensive research team (of unnamed, unknown people of unknown quantities) supported the same thing. Would you believe me? It's like 9/11 believers they pull facts out of nowhere, and believe them. Dispite the fact that it's well known that the facts are twisted to the point where they dont even make logical sense" Did you think any of that made sense? Sad... The fact is, MILLIONS of people are stealing games, and it is effecting the industry. To think otherwise is delusional and frankly stupid. Someone else said it better than me:In researching this article I read literally hundreds of articles, studies, forum posts, blog posts and general comments from a wide range of people. What disturbed me more than the blatant misinformation and falsehoods regarding various aspects of the debate was the unashamed 'Culture of Piracy' which now appears to be prevalent around the Internet. Not only are the people who are pirating games openly bragging about it, they're flowering it up with a range of excuses, even suggesting that it's their right to do so. Back in the 1980s when my friends and I swapped copies of Amiga games, we didn't blame the copy protection for forcing us to do it, we didn't blame copyright laws, or assume it was our right to copy any game we want in the name of 'freedom', we didn't even make a point of openly advertising that we did it. We copied games for one simple reason: because we could. Fast forward to the 21st century, and piracy has apparently somehow become a political struggle, a fight against greedy corporations and evil copy protection, and in some cases, I've even seen some people refer to the rise of piracy as a "revolution". What an absolute farce. Truth be told I have the greatest respect for the people who simply come out and just say that they pirate because they can, no more, no less. At least then I know I'm dealing with someone who's being honest and has got their head screwed on straight. Piracy is the result of human nature: when faced with the option of getting something for free or paying for it, and in the absence of any significant risks, you don't need complex economic studies to show you that most people will opt for the free route. However to back this up, the data presented in this article shows quite clearly that DRM or no DRM, good game or bad game, demo or no demo, available via Steam or not, cheap or expensive, whether sold by an independent or a major publisher - all games are being pirated on a massive scale. The most significant determinant of which games will get pirated more is how desirable they are. No surprises there. The purely self-serving nature of the arguments people use to justify piracy has become quite galling, and frankly is an insult to the collective intelligence of all internet users. Whether you pirate games or not is ultimately none of my business, but at least have the decency to be honest with yourself and everyone else about the real reasons why you're doing it.dnuggs40
What a load of conservative crap. Publishers and developers need to stop living in the past. We've all been bought up in a culture/society that encourages us to consume. So naturally we want entertainment, we want it now, and we want it cheap (or free). Then the publishers say, "actually you can only have it if you pay £30/£40/£50 for it, and have to put up with restrictive DRM". What kind of business model is that?
"I'm just speculating "
Exactly...the only side of the debate that actually has any facts and sense is the anti-piracy side.
"Would it really be better for companies if it didn't exist? "
Yes, it would. Just ask them. Ask them if they think massive piracy is good for business. I mean...is that even a serious question?
"It's not like every developer is a greedy bastard, it's not like every pirate is a greedy bastard either."
No, the people taking other people's hard work for free aren't greedy bastards... :roll:
It's time to screw your head on straight.
[QUOTE="True_Sounds"]
I should point out that just because someone pirates a game does not mean they won't buy it. Also not everyone who pirates a game is going to even install and play it. The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate.
dnuggs40
I'd like to point out that has been covered already ;)
"The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate."
It is accurate...and it has been confirmed by industry studies, looking at torrent downloads, as well as MANY developers experience (based off server requests, support ticketing, ect).
Where is YOUR evidence to disprove it?
I'd post my evidence, However it would be twisted and thrown back at me by people who can't tell a dog from a cat, and need People to tell them. The fact that all evidence you have displayed is nothing but random numbers given to you by press conferences with Devs, The same people who want you to think that piracy is a problem. Zero proof you have is legitimate. All of it has simply been put out there by people you dont know who have given no facts, nor have they told us the way they came up with these numbers. As far as i'm concerned, you've displayed no evidence to prove your fact except biased studies. as such, you have no arguement.In my country on average every family (of 5) have atleast one person downloading stuff. Note "Ofc every family don't but its very close to every. And if they don't someone do it for them :P... Just go and ask any class at any school on who download and most of them will say they do.
Anyway... The nr of sold games are going up and the nr of downloaded games are also going up. If we would follow what the doom sayers have said about this we would not have any gaming company left.
Also...
Here in this country the "anti-piracy" group was celebrating the fact that when the new law came the downloaded rate went from sky high to ground low... But! it happen every year at that time. Also note that the nr of sold copies are going up in this country. But then again we are quiet a hardcore gaming country O.o
KalDurenik
What country are you from?
Sweden
"I'm just speculating "
Exactly...the only side of the debate that actually has any facts and sense is the anti-piracy side.
"Would it really be better for companies if it didn't exist? "
Yes, it would. Just ask them. Ask them if they think massive piracy is good for business. I mean...is that even a serious question?
"It's not like every developer is a greedy bastard, it's not like every pirate is a greedy bastard either."
No, the people taking other people's hard work for free aren't greedy bastards... :roll:
It's time to screw your head on straight.
[QUOTE="True_Sounds"]
I should point out that just because someone pirates a game does not mean they won't buy it. Also not everyone who pirates a game is going to even install and play it. The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate.
dnuggs40
I'd like to point out that has been covered already ;)
"The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate."
It is accurate...and it has been confirmed by industry studies, looking at torrent downloads, as well as MANY developers experience (based off server requests, support ticketing, ect).
Where is YOUR evidence to disprove it?
The fact that alot of people don't use the warez they download. They just download everything that looks interesting on impulse only to delete it later.
"I'd post my evidence, However" Right. You don't have ANY. "The fact that all evidence you have displayed is nothing but random numbers given to you by press conferences with Devs, The same people who want you to think that piracy is a problem." No, it's based off of industry studies, developers pulling statistics from their servers/ticketing systems, as well as STATISTICS FROM PIRATE WEB SITES. You know, you can see how many people are downloading torrents, right? "As far as i'm concerned, you've displayed no evidence to prove your fact except biased studies. as such, you have no arguement." No, that would be (by admission) YOU.dnuggs40
This is just the kind of rhetoic that the industry comes out with. So who you working for? RIAA, MPAA, MAFIAA, FACT, BREIN, IFPI?
"The fact that alot of people don't use the warez they download. They just download everything that looks interesting on impulse only to delete it."
:lol:
Oh man...this is probably the stupidest excuse yet. And again, for like the 3rd time...nobody is stating that every game pirated is a lost sale.
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]"I'd post my evidence, However" Right. You don't have ANY. "The fact that all evidence you have displayed is nothing but random numbers given to you by press conferences with Devs, The same people who want you to think that piracy is a problem." No, it's based off of industry studies, developers pulling statistics from their servers/ticketing systems, as well as STATISTICS FROM PIRATE WEB SITES. You know, you can see how many people are downloading torrents, right? "As far as i'm concerned, you've displayed no evidence to prove your fact except biased studies. as such, you have no arguement." No, that would be (by admission) YOU.dbowman
This is just the kind of rhetoic that the industry comes out with. So who you working for? RIAA, MPAA, MAFIAA, FACT, BREIN, IFPI?
I can see you are dazzled by logic. Yeah...I work for all of them. Just call me the G-Man.
"Right. You don't have ANY."
How immoral of you.
"No, it's based off of industry studies, developers pulling statistics from their servers/ticketing systems, as well as STATISTICS FROM PIRATE WEB SITES. You know, you can see how many people are downloading torrents, right?"
Out of those torrenting people, some will also buy the game, others already bought the game, others are taken into account even if they are seeders, meaning they've already finished the download and may already have bought the game or are willing to.
The industry "studies" actually make a living out of making up numbers and giving them to the developer companies...
Also, just to be sure, I'd love a bunch of links to make my eyes glaze.
Well in sweden the movie, gaming, music industry have been throwing laws around trying to force ISP and so on to giveout information to them without any proof that said person have downloaded something. Also if you happen to get to court you are now forced to prove that you have not downloaded something...
Oh well i think the anti piracy group have sent in 300 IP's so far? And none of them have passed. Also no its not illegal in sweden. Or well atleast not by law... But who need the law when you can buy people that lead the courts? You will allways win :D
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]"I'd post my evidence, However" Right. You don't have ANY. "The fact that all evidence you have displayed is nothing but random numbers given to you by press conferences with Devs, The same people who want you to think that piracy is a problem." No, it's based off of industry studies, developers pulling statistics from their servers/ticketing systems, as well as STATISTICS FROM PIRATE WEB SITES. You know, you can see how many people are downloading torrents, right? "As far as i'm concerned, you've displayed no evidence to prove your fact except biased studies. as such, you have no arguement." No, that would be (by admission) YOU.dbowman
This is just the kind of rhetoic that the industry comes out with. So who you working for? RIAA, MPAA, MAFIAA, FACT, BREIN, IFPI?
Why do you think he works for an anti-piracy/ pro copyright organization. Else I see no clear point behind your sarcasm
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]
"I'm just speculating "
Exactly...the only side of the debate that actually has any facts and sense is the anti-piracy side.
"Would it really be better for companies if it didn't exist? "
Yes, it would. Just ask them. Ask them if they think massive piracy is good for business. I mean...is that even a serious question?
"It's not like every developer is a greedy bastard, it's not like every pirate is a greedy bastard either."
No, the people taking other people's hard work for free aren't greedy bastards... :roll:
It's time to screw your head on straight.
[QUOTE="True_Sounds"]
I should point out that just because someone pirates a game does not mean they won't buy it. Also not everyone who pirates a game is going to even install and play it. The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate.
True_Sounds
I'd like to point out that has been covered already ;)
"The 90% figure is complete bollocks, it's not scientific and it's not accurate."
It is accurate...and it has been confirmed by industry studies, looking at torrent downloads, as well as MANY developers experience (based off server requests, support ticketing, ect).
Where is YOUR evidence to disprove it?
The fact that alot of people don't use the warez they download. They just download everything that looks interesting on impulse only to delete it later.
Wow, is this an excuse now? :lol:It's not an excuse, I don't need an excuse to download something, neither does anyone else :roll: All I'm saying the 90% figure is not an accurate depiction of piracy's negative cost.
You can download the same release from 5 sites simultaneously using bittorrent. I will come up as 5 snatches, but you've only downloaded 1 copy. You fail to realize a torrent file is a measly few kb. It isn't the 9 gig game they are counting, it's the link to the game.
This is from 2D Boy...now I know he is just an "evil dastardly developer"...but whatever. Oh...and he works for the MPAA too!
http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/
90%
That's the approximate piracy rate for the pc version of world of goo. we casually mentioned that number recently and the news seemed to propagate far and wide, so we'd like to follow up with some more details, for those interested.
first, and most importantly, how we came up with this number: the game allows players to have their high scores reported to our server (it's an optional checkbox). we record each score and the IP from which it came. we divided the total number of sales we had from all sources by the total number of unique IPs in our database, and came up with about 0.1. that's how we came up with 90%.
it's just an estimate though... there are factors that we couldn't account for that would make the actual piracy rate lower than our estimate:
* some people install the game on more than one machine
* most people have dynamic IP addresses that change from time to timethere are also factors that would make the actual piracy rate higher than our estimate:
* more than one installation behind the same router/firewall (would be common in an office environment)
* not everyone opts to have their scores submittedfor simplicity's sake, we just assumed those would balance out. so take take the 90% as a rough estimate.
this is in line with a previous estimate by russell carroll (director of marketing at reflexive) for the game ricochet infinity. russell estimated a 92% piracy rate and i found his analysis quite interesting (check it out here if you're curious). one thing that really jumped out at me was his estimate that preventing 1000 piracy attempts results in only a single additional sale. this supports our intuitive assessment that people who pirate our game aren't people who would have purchased it had they not been able to get it without paying.
in our case, we might have even converted more than 1 in a 1000 pirates into legit purchases. either way, ricochet shipped with DRM, world of goo shipped without it, and there seems to be no difference in the outcomes. we can't draw any conclusions based on two data points, but i'm hoping that others will release information about piracy rates so that everyone could see if DRM is the waste of time and money that we think it is.
--------
UPDATE (and nerd alert): a lot of smart people have been questioning the accuracy of our 90% estimate, and with good reason, it's a very rough estimate and the measurements are flawed. so we did some more digging to see if we might have missed the mark by a significant amount. here's what we found:1. based on the number of unique IPs and unique player IDs, we found that on average, there are 1.3 unique IP addresses per player (there is 1 player id for each profile created on any installation that submits scores to our server)
76% of players have contacted the server from 1 IP
13% from 2 IPs
5% from 3 IPs
3% from 4 IPs
1% from 5 IPs
1% from 6 IPs
1% from more than 6
this tells us that the dynamic IP issue is a relatively small factor in this calculation
2. we also looked at how many players IDs were created (rather than used) from each IP address. given that the vast majority of player IDs are associated with only a single IP, this is a fairly accurate measure of how many profiles the average user created. on average, a player has 1.15 profiles per installation.when we take the total number of player IDs (which is smaller than the number of unique IPs from which leaderboard entries came) and divide it by 1.15 (the average number of profiles per installation) the number of estimated unique installations drops by about 35% as compared to the estimate based on unique IPs. let us further say that the average user installs the game on 1.25 computers with different IPs (i.e. not behind the same router), which i think is a high estimate. that lowers the estimated unique installations by another 20%. after factoring both of these in, the piracy rate would still be 82%, and we should keep in mind that this number doesn't include those who never opted to submit scores to the leaderboard (it's an option that's off by default). so while it's possible that the actual piracy rate is lower than 90%, it's unlikely that it's significantly lower. 2d boy hopes this satisfies the more rigorous number crunchers out there :)
oh, and yes, these numbers are exclusive of the demo... those scores are submitted to a different server entirely.
2D Boy
Wow, a forum troll went fishin' and reeled in SIX pages of posts. Very impressive. Shame on you guys.attirexi'm going to join in and say i pirate games PS: this is a joke don't take it too seriously
Anyway anyone that say they pirate will get banned from this forum. So most people that have or is defending it have been banned by now. And these topics do get deleted quiet fast... (they turn up around once every week with the name "Piracy is kill PC gaming" or something close to that).
To take it short:
Pirates:
There is no proof that there is a lost sale.
They can release anything they want without any quality check
If a game is good they might gain a sale.
Some people already own a copy but download it again anyway (be that its DRM, CD problem or they own it on another platform or whatever)
Some people just download it but never do anything with it.
It helps spread the gaming culture.'
Downloading have improved the features in the way games can be bougth and so on.
The nr of people playing and buying games is going up. If it was as bad as the devs said why are there more and more games being crated?
There is nothing wrong with testing it.
Some people might download it and never pay for it but they can't be seen as a customer.
Selling pirates games is bad!
We have been sharing with our friends but thats okey and this is not?
There should be demos
Anti-Pirates:
Its wrong
It reduce the nr of companise making games
It hurt sales and quality
You would not like if someone took somethign you have worked hard on.
If pirates stoped there would be better quality games.
If there was no pirates games would sell alot more
"some say" that every downloaded copy = a lost sale some say it would still sell alot better.
Demos don't help.
They put down alot of time and there for have earned the money
Ugh probably a few more under the anti piracy catagory but anyway... Im abit tired now.
So this is the entire topic and a few more.
And this is what will happen:
Some people that support piracy might get banned. The topic will be deleted and in another 1-2 weeks there will be a new one and the never ending loop of doom starts all over again ;)
Some people that support piracy might get banned. The topic will be deleted and in another 1-2 weeks there will be a new one and the never ending loop of doom starts all over again ;)KalDurenik
Wha? These threads are the funniest...it's a real shame there isn't as much people here as in the System Wars forum. Especially the "is PC losing the war" threads where PC bashers get desperately owned :lol:
I do agree these topics are funny. But that dont change the fact that what i wrote will happen :P
90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
Claim numbers are wrong without backing up statement: Check! Claim it's the developers fault: Check! Claim they are lazy and make bad games: Check! Claim they are greedy jerks: Check! What we got here is your standard piracy apologist post :)90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
Berserker1_5
[QUOTE="Berserker1_5"]Claim numbers are wrong without backing up statement: Check! Claim it's the developers fault: Check! Claim they are lazy and make bad games: Check! Claim they are greedy jerks: Check! What we got here is your standard piracy apologist post :) While I'm not saying those claim numbers are wrong, there's really no way to fact check it either. You pretty much just have to take the developer's word at face value and assume they didn't fudge the numbers. Is it accurate? Maybe, but you don't really know.90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
dnuggs40
[QUOTE="Berserker1_5"]Claim numbers are wrong without backing up statement: Check! Claim it's the developers fault: Check! Claim they are lazy and make bad games: Check! Claim they are greedy jerks: Check! What we got here is your standard piracy apologist post :) You have sat here and made horrible insults to people. You've pulled facts out no of no-where to defend ridiculous comments. and You've supplied Twisted, biased facts that only prove that you cannot make intelligent discussions where yo draw up your own conclusions. I'm going to go as far to say that you really need to get your head out of your *** and look at both sides, rather than making insults and jumping on the "I hate pirates, they're so evil they must eat babies" bandwagon90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
dnuggs40
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Berserker1_5"]Claim numbers are wrong without backing up statement: Check! Claim it's the developers fault: Check! Claim they are lazy and make bad games: Check! Claim they are greedy jerks: Check! What we got here is your standard piracy apologist post :) While I'm not saying those claim numbers are wrong, there's really no way to fact check it either. You pretty much just have to take the developer's word at face value and assume they didn't fudge the numbers. Is it accurate? Maybe, but you don't really know.90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
zomglolcats
It's not just a developer though...it's now tons of them and they are all saying the same thing. And even then it's not just developers saying it...there's studies that show the same thing. And EVEN THEN it's not just developers and studies...the torrents/usenet/ect stats say the same things.
It's an overwhelming amount of correlating evidence...it's way beyond just "believing what one person says".
And to be clear, I am not saying every single game has a 90% rate, or even that it's EXACTLY 90%...but it's extremely clear now that for any given game the range is between 50%-90% these days, and piracy is a MAJOR issue.
[QUOTE="Berserker1_5"]Claim numbers are wrong without backing up statement: Check! Claim it's the developers fault: Check! Claim they are lazy and make bad games: Check! Claim they are greedy jerks: Check! What we got here is your standard piracy apologist post :)90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
dnuggs40
1- I DON'T Pirate anything whatsoever. I don't believe piracy to be good. HOWEVER, I understand why people do it. I have friends who do it occasionally.
2- If you are going to stand there and say that a company isn't greedy and doesn't want more profit, then you are a bigger dumb-ass then I though. Every company wants to expand, every company want to use as little of their resources to make a product.
3- There is no way you can sit on that computer and claim how many games were pirated. There is no accurate way to find out. It all speculation that have some form of accuracy but no where near 100%. Company always like to overexxagerate there losses to thing. You can related it to anything today; not just gaming companies
4- Yes, I do believe developers are getting more and more greedy with what they are doing. They tend to make games that aren't that optimized. They tend to make games shorter. They try to make the best game on graphic and not gameplay. They don't try to use their profit to help stop piracy. They use some, but not a lot.
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Berserker1_5"]Claim numbers are wrong without backing up statement: Check! Claim it's the developers fault: Check! Claim they are lazy and make bad games: Check! Claim they are greedy jerks: Check! What we got here is your standard piracy apologist post :) You have sat here and made horrible insults to people. You've pulled facts out no of no-where to defend ridiculous comments. and You've supplied Twisted, biased facts that only prove that you cannot make intelligent discussions where yo draw up your own conclusions. I'm going to go as far to say that you really need to get your head out of your *** and look at both sides, rather than making insults and jumping on the "I hate pirates, they're so evil they must eat babies" bandwagon I have supplied facts from multiple sources that all say the same thing. What facts have YOU supplied? Nothing...nadda...zip...zilch. And you sir, are the only one on a bandwagon.90% Piracy rate is over exaggerated. Besides, even if it's true(it's not tho), it's the companies fault. They should make a server that YOU must login if you want to play the game if it's for single player use. Instead they try to make more money from the profit they gained by making bad game.
Nibroc420
Wow, a forum troll went fishin' and reeled in SEVEN pages of posts. Very impressive. Shame on you guys.
attirex
assumption is the mother of all mess-ups. considering the OP thinks that Pokemon would make a great MMO it is more likely they are new to PC gaming and as a result, new to the concept pirating... unless they modded their consoles of course.
[QUOTE="attirex"]
Wow, a forum troll went fishin' and reeled in SEVEN pages of posts. Very impressive. Shame on you guys.
weirjf
assumption is the mother of all mess-ups. considering the OP thinks that Pokemon would make a great MMO it is more likely they are new to PC gaming and as a result, new to the concept pirating... unless they modded their consoles of course.
Dude, Pokemon MMO would be awesome.I have supplied facts from multiple sources that all say the same thing. dnuggs40
Yes, that piracy is supposed to be a major issue and that they are losing tons and tons of money that if in their hands would obviously have been used to create better games.
Claim numbers are right and not biased: Check!
Claim it's all the pirates fault: Check!
Claim they aren't greedy and make good games: Check!
Claim they are losing a lot of money because of greedy people: Check!
What we got here is your standard anti-piracy post. I'd add a smile but it's really depressing.
Wow, a forum troll went fishin' and reeled in SEVEN pages of posts. Very impressive. Shame on you guys.
attirex
among the most effective and efficient page reeling topics at this forum,
the others are Crysis dis and system wars variants, "PC game is dying/dead" of sort.
Good Greef.... Those companies that went under are their faults mostly,because they made games that no one knew about or didnt care. For example the makers of World of Goo that was their ownly game that made any real money but because of their past failures WoG just delayed the ending. People dont see that part of the info, they just see the 80%+ pirate rate, and the truth is that even if all them bought the game the company would have ownly lasted another few months to a year.
"Why is piracy stealing?
If i rent a movie, i have no intention of buying that movie, i just want to watch it once.
if i rent a game, i have no intention of buying that game, i just want to play it once.
If i buy a pre-owned game off a friend, i had no intention of buying it new, but i wanted to play it.
if i download a game, i have no intention of buying that game, i just want to play it once.
in none of those situations, does the developer see any of MY money. Yet one isn't stealing, and one is?
in none of those situations stealing occurs. i physically have not stolen anything"
^ That is so true in so many ways because likeif you borrow a game from a friend your "stealing" from the company who made that game your suppose to buy that game before you play it. Buts its not wrong or viewed as stealing.
The information about 50-90% piratacy rate is so bloated out of size. Now Crysis sold more then 2 million copies within a 8 month period and "had and huge rate in pirated copies"They were hoping for 5 million+ sells in a 1/2 year but they were full of themselves because at that time only a small % of people could play the game descently which really cut the sells numbers "not fromthe downloading". Also not everyone likes those types of games too. There are so many factors that make people not buy,buy, or download games, weither its because of lack of Pc power to play it, dont like the type,story etc of the game/s or just want to try out the game not wanting to risk hard earned money on a broken,unfinished or a game they may not like.
And to finish up on the Crysis sale numbers the game costed them 25-26 million to make and produce and with only 1 million sold they almost doubled the the money they spent to make the game. With these devs putting out rushed, unfinished,broken, short games and then raising the prices on those games, they wonder why more and more look at 2nd handed games to downloading them rather then spending their hard earned money. Say you get $9 an hour and you want a $60 thats a days worth of work and you get 2-6 hours most of the time and that could be looked as wrong too.
Here we go again with another piracy debate. I was about to pull out my hair in frustration until dnuggs and charles saved my sanity with a healthy dose of common sense.
@dnuggs and charles, the best thing to do is try not to let the retarded kids on this site wind you up, after all when they grow up and stop fighting THE MAN or their parents or their teachers or the greedy game devs they will take that chip offlearn how the world works. At that point it may be worth debating with them but i get a feeling they won't be as passionate.
Find below my copy paste for piracy threads.
I have been gaming for a long time more than 20 years and love my hobby with a passion, don't think ill ever grow out of it. I have over 100 games in my pc collection and have bought and paid for every one. I follow gaming news and look forward to new releases. When i know a game is coming that i want i will usually have to work overtime to get it. Now let me paint a picture for you, when i work ovetime it means giving up my free weekend time at 5am on a saturday to go work on a job i dislike for 8 hours of my free time. I work hard for my family and myself and when i can save for a treat ie a new game i feel i deserve it.
Now i pay for these games because as i said i have been gaming for many years and for all the joy i have recieved i believe i should give something back. Thats why i pay for all my games and support the devs both big and indie with my money in the hope they can stay in business and make more games. I also know what it means to work hard on something and pay to show my respect to the guys for all their hard work on making my entertainment.
Now mr pirate comes along and has no interest in contributing to my hobby but still likes to reap the rewards of the devs work. They are takers, leeches, parasites,scumbags who think they have some divine right to take what they want when they want probably because their prents taught them no values. now i can accept these people exist and have to admit there is very little i can do to stop them so after expressing my opinion i move on.
However my blood really starts to boil when these people try to justify and defend their actions, if your gonna pirate then pirate but don't come here and tell me its ok. Don't come here and tell me the thing i gave away my free time for working at stupid hours because i care about the devs is fair game for theft. Don't tell me that some little punk who thinks the world owes him something is justified in stealing it because he can, or doesn't have the money, or is just trying it, or wouldn't buy it anyway.
Anyway rant over, just needed to get that out my system.
You download game files or obtain the game files without actually buying a copy of the game from the developer, you are playing the game for free and essentially stealing a game. Also pirates are trash, and it is highly illegal and if you gave a hoot about the gaming industry you would support devs and actually buy the game they put time and money into making. If you pirate a game you could just as easily have bought, then you have no excuse, you are cancer to the gaming industry.Im_single
Italics is the wrong stuff, Bold is what I agree with, the Italics should be true...
But as the game developer technically don't lose anything via you downloading it, it's technically not stealing, and it isn't highly illegal because you download it from someone else, not somewhere. Making it file sharing... Stupid loop-hole in the law...
It's stupid, and completely out of order on the people who have spent hours making this game only for you to not pay for it. Pirating should be illegal...
-
PS - I'm not sure how it get's put up in the first place, but the way you download it is by finding what you want and clicking download, it'll then download a link between you and the people your downloading from, and connect you together, more people get connected and the download becomes faster...
[QUOTE="weirjf"][QUOTE="attirex"]
Wow, a forum troll went fishin' and reeled in SEVEN pages of posts. Very impressive. Shame on you guys.
Nibroc420
assumption is the mother of all mess-ups. considering the OP thinks that Pokemon would make a great MMO it is more likely they are new to PC gaming and as a result, new to the concept pirating... unless they modded their consoles of course.
Dude, Pokemon MMO would be awesome.Hey.. I started the Pokemon MMO thread... :/
And thank you Nibroc420, it would be awesome.. And weirif, why you gotta be hurtin'?
[QUOTE="dnuggs40"] I have supplied facts from multiple sources that all say the same thing. Mograine
Yes, that piracy is supposed to be a major issue and that they are losing tons and tons of money that if in their hands would obviously have been used to create better games.
Claim numbers are right and not biased: Check!
Claim it's all the pirates fault: Check!
Claim they aren't greedy and make good games: Check!
Claim they are losing a lot of money because of greedy people: Check!
What we got here is your standard anti-piracy post. I'd add a smile but it's really depressing.
"Claim numbers are right and not biased: Check!"
They are accurate...prove otherwise. Have you been able to show a single solitary fact at all? Anything?
"Claim it's all the pirates fault: Check!"
Never said that.
"Claim they aren't greedy and make good games: Check!"
They do, and if they didn't what are you doing wasting your time being a gamer? Not to mention, if it was a bad game why are you pirating it?
"Claim they are losing a lot of money because of greedy people: Check!"
It's true, as shown by you know...the facts and common sense.
"What we got here is your standard anti-piracy post. I'd add a smile but it's really depressing."
At least when I did it my points were reflective of what the poster actually said. Also, imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I thank you.
Here we go again with another piracy debate. I was about to pull out my hair in frustration until dnuggs and charles saved my sanity with a healthy dose of common sense.
@dnuggs and charles, the best thing to do is try not to let the retarded kids on this site wind you up, after all when they grow up and stop fighting THE MAN or their parents or their teachers or the greedy game devs they will take that chip offlearn how the world works. At that point it may be worth debating with them but i get a feeling they won't be as passionate.
Find below my copy paste for piracy threads.
I have been gaming for a long time more than 20 years and love my hobby with a passion, don't think ill ever grow out of it. I have over 100 games in my pc collection and have bought and paid for every one. I follow gaming news and look forward to new releases. When i know a game is coming that i want i will usually have to work overtime to get it. Now let me paint a picture for you, when i work ovetime it means giving up my free weekend time at 5am on a saturday to go work on a job i dislike for 8 hours of my free time. I work hard for my family and myself and when i can save for a treat ie a new game i feel i deserve it.
Now i pay for these games because as i said i have been gaming for many years and for all the joy i have recieved i believe i should give something back. Thats why i pay for all my games and support the devs both big and indie with my money in the hope they can stay in business and make more games. I also know what it means to work hard on something and pay to show my respect to the guys for all their hard work on making my entertainment.
Now mr pirate comes along and has no interest in contributing to my hobby but still likes to reap the rewards of the devs work. They are takers, leeches, parasites,scumbags who think they have some divine right to take what they want when they want probably because their prents taught them no values. now i can accept these people exist and have to admit there is very little i can do to stop them so after expressing my opinion i move on.However my blood really starts to boil when these people try to justify and defend their actions, if your gonna pirate then pirate but don't come here and tell me its ok. Don't come here and tell me the thing i gave away my free time for working at stupid hours because i care about the devs is fair game for theft. Don't tell me that some little punk who thinks the world owes him something is justified in stealing it because he can, or doesn't have the money, or is just trying it, or wouldn't buy it anyway.
Anyway rant over, just needed to get that out my system.
dannyw7982
They are leeches, parasites, and scumbags...except I don't think they will ever grow out of it like you say. They are destined to be our welfare recipients, our "got drunk on the job and hurt himself and now collect unemployment" guy, our bums, and our degenerates. It's one thing to pirate just because you can...it's a whole different kind of mental illness to pretend it's due to all these idiotic excuses we heard in this thread.
These kids are a new breed of sorry...they are the entitlement generation. Where the people busting their arse all day and investing money are the lazy greedy bad guys, and the people freaking stealing the results from that labor were entitled to it and heck...even doing them a favor.
It's sick and it's sad...I really hope it's just a few misfits on the internet because if this is the general mindset of kids these days we are in big trouble...
[QUOTE="dannyw7982"]
Here we go again with another piracy debate. I was about to pull out my hair in frustration until dnuggs and charles saved my sanity with a healthy dose of common sense.
@dnuggs and charles, the best thing to do is try not to let the retarded kids on this site wind you up, after all when they grow up and stop fighting THE MAN or their parents or their teachers or the greedy game devs they will take that chip offlearn how the world works. At that point it may be worth debating with them but i get a feeling they won't be as passionate.
Find below my copy paste for piracy threads.
I have been gaming for a long time more than 20 years and love my hobby with a passion, don't think ill ever grow out of it. I have over 100 games in my pc collection and have bought and paid for every one. I follow gaming news and look forward to new releases. When i know a game is coming that i want i will usually have to work overtime to get it. Now let me paint a picture for you, when i work ovetime it means giving up my free weekend time at 5am on a saturday to go work on a job i dislike for 8 hours of my free time. I work hard for my family and myself and when i can save for a treat ie a new game i feel i deserve it.
Now i pay for these games because as i said i have been gaming for many years and for all the joy i have recieved i believe i should give something back. Thats why i pay for all my games and support the devs both big and indie with my money in the hope they can stay in business and make more games. I also know what it means to work hard on something and pay to show my respect to the guys for all their hard work on making my entertainment.
Now mr pirate comes along and has no interest in contributing to my hobby but still likes to reap the rewards of the devs work. They are takers, leeches, parasites,scumbags who think they have some divine right to take what they want when they want probably because their prents taught them no values. now i can accept these people exist and have to admit there is very little i can do to stop them so after expressing my opinion i move on.However my blood really starts to boil when these people try to justify and defend their actions, if your gonna pirate then pirate but don't come here and tell me its ok. Don't come here and tell me the thing i gave away my free time for working at stupid hours because i care about the devs is fair game for theft. Don't tell me that some little punk who thinks the world owes him something is justified in stealing it because he can, or doesn't have the money, or is just trying it, or wouldn't buy it anyway.
Anyway rant over, just needed to get that out my system.
dnuggs40
They are leeches, parasites, and scumbags...except I don't think they will ever grow out of it like you say. They are destined to be our welfare recipients, our "got drunk on the job and hurt himself and now collect unemployment" guy, our bums, and our degenerates. It's one thing to pirate just because you can...it's a whole different kind of mental illness to pretend it's due to all these idiotic excuses we heard in this thread.
These kids are a new breed of sorry...they are the entitlement generation. Where the people busting their arse all day and investing money are the lazy greedy bad guys, and the people freaking stealing the results from that labor were entitled to it and heck...even doing them a favor.
It's sick and it's sad...I really hope it's just a few misfits on the internet because if this is the general mindset of kids these days we are in big trouble...
we're already in trouble and its because of those kinds of kids and people like you we'd be better off without both of you
People like me? What, people who respect hard work and want other people not to get ripped off? People like me who are tired of listening to a bunch of selfish kids make excuses as to why their stealing is justified?
Yeah...damn me! :lol:
Anyways, their parents obviously aren't screwing their heads on straight they ought to hear it from somewhere lol.
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