Grim Dawn - From the makers of Titan Quest

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Renevent42

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#101 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

New image (added to first post) just released showing early UI, merchant window, item art, and basic stat page. The developers have said this it all very early and they are still working on a lot of the UI and moving stuff around, creating better icon graphics, ect. Gives a good idea though of the really unique looking item and the gritty art style they are going for.

*edit*

Oh and forgot to add they are adding partial randomization to the TQ engine in addition to all the other improvements (also found on first post).

The mysterious crop-circle looking things in the image below are a new feature we're experimenting with that generates randomized scenery. Levels that use these won't be totally randomized as the heightmap terrain currently remains fixed but these "setpieces" can allow us to more significantly randomize the location of important things within the level as well as the general scenery. For example, in the level below, I'm using setpieces to generate natural scenery, enemy spawn locations, human camps, and loot chests. So far, this seems to be a nice blend between hand-crafted and randomized. You get the visual quality and uniqueness of hand-crafted terrain but some of the fun of exploring a level each time and never knowing quite what you might find or where.

We're also investigating methods of randomizing the path through the level by creating a bunch of different possible routes and then randomly closing some of them off with dynamically generated obstacles.
medierra

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KalDurenik

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#102 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts

This: * Gameplay designed to expand through downloadable content to provide 200 levels of character progression, equipment, and enemies to fight makes for ridiculous amounts of replay value. Made me very very uninterested in the game. its in what? alpha? yet they are considering DLC at this time O.o? Hell even before that =/

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Elann2008

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#103 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts
Very interesting. Definitely following this game. Grim Dawn, along with Dead State are the games to watch out for. (:
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ssvegeta555

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#104 ssvegeta555
Member since 2003 • 2448 Posts

I like the idea of the random generation.

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#105 spittis
Member since 2005 • 1875 Posts

Very interested in this one :)

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#106 MyopicCanadian
Member since 2004 • 8345 Posts

This: * Gameplay designed to expand through downloadable content to provide 200 levels of character progression, equipment, and enemies to fight makes for ridiculous amounts of replay value. Made me very very uninterested in the game. its in what? alpha? yet they are considering DLC at this time O.o? Hell even before that =/

KalDurenik
What are you even talking about? They need to create framework for the game to easily distribute additional content as they release it.. of course they're going to be designing that from the start.
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KalDurenik

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#107 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts
[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

This: * Gameplay designed to expand through downloadable content to provide 200 levels of character progression, equipment, and enemies to fight makes for ridiculous amounts of replay value. Made me very very uninterested in the game. its in what? alpha? yet they are considering DLC at this time O.o? Hell even before that =/

MyopicCanadian
What are you even talking about? They need to create framework for the game to easily distribute additional content as they release it.. of course they're going to be designing that from the start.

Im against DLC. Give me a good expansions that expand upon the game and give new areas, quests, loot, classes, game features, models, textures and other improvements to the engine and not just "dur here you go for 5$ one new area with 2 quests!"
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#108 MyopicCanadian
Member since 2004 • 8345 Posts

Ah, yeah. I agree with you there. I suppose I just have a broad view of DLC. This is a small company, so these guys probably don't want to waste any resources distributing full-on expansions like they did with Immortal Throne. I'm still thinking that their version of DLC would be a LOT of content, not just nickel and diming their own community.

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KalDurenik

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#109 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts
Well i mean im interested in the game (even if this game it drop somewhat). I will ofc keep a eye out and check up on the game once in a while but if they are going to milk the community with dlc when i wont buy it. But i guess we will see as time go on.
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Renevent42

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#110 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

[QUOTE="MyopicCanadian"][QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

This: * Gameplay designed to expand through downloadable content to provide 200 levels of character progression, equipment, and enemies to fight makes for ridiculous amounts of replay value. Made me very very uninterested in the game. its in what? alpha? yet they are considering DLC at this time O.o? Hell even before that =/

KalDurenik

What are you even talking about? They need to create framework for the game to easily distribute additional content as they release it.. of course they're going to be designing that from the start.

Im against DLC. Give me a good expansions that expand upon the game and give new areas, quests, loot, classes, game features, models, textures and other improvements to the engine and not just "dur here you go for 5$ one new area with 2 quests!"

That's exactly what they are planning...where did you see it would be just a new area with 2 quests?

Here is directly from the FAQ:

http://www.grimdawn.com/about_faq.php#q05

What is this talk of downloadable content?

When many people hear the term downloadable content they are filled with fear and rage. They imagine having to charge $0.50 to their credit cards everytime they buy a new item. This is not what we imagine. This is a downloadable game, so it makes sense that when we release expansion packs, they will also be downloadable. These expansions will be similar to a normal boxed game-expansion in that they will generally contain new story elements, classes, enemies, items, and new regions of the world to explore.

FAQ

(reading the answer from the FAQ is kind of funny in the context of this post...now I know why it's necessary to make disclaimers like that :P )

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#111 snared04
Member since 2009 • 455 Posts

Saw this a few weeks ago, looks great and I'll definitely buy it as some point, however I have to say that their release schedule couldn't be worse. Get it out in the next 4-5 months, and that'll be good. But releasing it next year? In the wake of Diablo III...? gotta be kidding me on that decision making paradigm.

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#112 chaoz-king
Member since 2005 • 5956 Posts
I've been wanting a game like this Torchlight just didn't cut it for me.
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Elann2008

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#113 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts

Saw this a few weeks ago, looks great and I'll definitely buy it as some point, however I have to say that their release schedule couldn't be worse. Get it out in the next 4-5 months, and that'll be good. But releasing it next year? In the wake of Diablo III...? gotta be kidding me on that decision making paradigm.

snared04
True. People will be playing Diablo 3 for a while. If it's anything like its predecessors, it will have longevity, therefore crushing Grim Dawn along its path if they release it after Diablo 3. They should release it by summer. Fall would be cutting it too close because there's a good chance now that Diablo 3 might come out later this year. But it looks like their window of opportunity is gone... and it's going to hurt sales for them. They should capitalize on releasing it before Diablo 3, because people are having Diablo withdrawal and Grim Dawn would have been a good filler along with Torchlight 2.
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#114 Gladestone1
Member since 2004 • 5695 Posts

From the makers of titan quest im all over this..Loved titan quest when it first came out..This is looking great..Sean it before long time ago.,Before they even had any video..Im shocked they dont have any backing..There creating this game on there own..Small studio or some thing..

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Renevent42

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#115 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

Saw this a few weeks ago, looks great and I'll definitely buy it as some point, however I have to say that their release schedule couldn't be worse. Get it out in the next 4-5 months, and that'll be good. But releasing it next year? In the wake of Diablo III...? gotta be kidding me on that decision making paradigm.

snared04
They are not intentionally releasing along side Diablo 3...nothing to do with decision making. The game is taking a long to to develop because they are an extremely small company and they only have so many man hours available. It's looking like (if Diablo 3 is released Q4 this year) that Grim Dawn will come out a good 3-4 months after Diablo 3 anyways. People do buy more than one game you know in the same genre. I know I personally will get both no matter the release. And Grim Dawn will be $20 as well so it's not like it's directly competing with Diablo 3 anyways.
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#116 snared04
Member since 2009 • 455 Posts

[QUOTE="snared04"]

Saw this a few weeks ago, looks great and I'll definitely buy it as some point, however I have to say that their release schedule couldn't be worse. Get it out in the next 4-5 months, and that'll be good. But releasing it next year? In the wake of Diablo III...? gotta be kidding me on that decision making paradigm.

Renevent42

They are not intentionally releasing along side Diablo 3...nothing to do with decision making. The game is taking a long to to develop because they are an extremely small company and they only have so many man hours available. It's looking like (if Diablo 3 is released Q4 this year) that Grim Dawn will come out a good 3-4 months after Diablo 3 anyways. People do buy more than one game you know in the same genre. I know I personally will get both no matter the release. And Grim Dawn will be $20 as well so it's not like it's directly competing with Diablo 3 anyways.

Err... I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they are intelligent enough to know that releasing an extremely similiar game next to a competing game launched by the most successful game company known to man is ALWAYS something to factor in.

That being said, seeing as how Diablo II is still going strong ten years after launch, I can hardly see 3-4 months as being an adequately long period of time for that honeymoon stage to wear off, and Diablo III players to even start thinking about other games in that genre to fill their time with.

Again, either release it before, or go home. And yes, I realise THQ's staff is small comparitively, but I think I have numbers to back my hypothesis.

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Baranga

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#117 Baranga
Member since 2005 • 14217 Posts

Err... I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they are intelligent enough to know that releasing an extremely similiar game next to a competing game launched by the most successful game company known to man is ALWAYS something to factor in.

That being said, seeing as how Diablo II is still going strong ten years after launch, I can hardly see 3-4 months as being an adequately long period of time for that honeymoon stage to wear off, and Diablo III players to even start thinking about other games in that genre to fill their time with.

Again, either release it before, or go home. And yes, I realise THQ's staff is small comparitively, but I think I have numbers to back my hypothesis.

snared04

Grim Dawn has a different enough setting, mood, graphical design and weapon system to make it interesting for Diablo fans.

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#118 snared04
Member since 2009 • 455 Posts

[QUOTE="snared04"]

Err... I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they are intelligent enough to know that releasing an extremely similiar game next to a competing game launched by the most successful game company known to man is ALWAYS something to factor in.

That being said, seeing as how Diablo II is still going strong ten years after launch, I can hardly see 3-4 months as being an adequately long period of time for that honeymoon stage to wear off, and Diablo III players to even start thinking about other games in that genre to fill their time with.

Again, either release it before, or go home. And yes, I realise THQ's staff is small comparitively, but I think I have numbers to back my hypothesis.

Baranga

Grim Dawn has a different enough setting, mood, graphical design and weapon system to make it interesting for Diablo fans.

Which is why Titan Quest inevitably saw such a large draw from Diablo fans, having been released half a decade after Diablo II came out...

^ "half a decade" being the key term here.

3-4 months isn't going to draw jack from the Diablo crowd.

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#119 TailBlood
Member since 2011 • 944 Posts
I loved TQ, so definitely looking forward to this.
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#120 Baranga
Member since 2005 • 14217 Posts

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="snared04"]

Err... I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they are intelligent enough to know that releasing an extremely similiar game next to a competing game launched by the most successful game company known to man is ALWAYS something to factor in.

That being said, seeing as how Diablo II is still going strong ten years after launch, I can hardly see 3-4 months as being an adequately long period of time for that honeymoon stage to wear off, and Diablo III players to even start thinking about other games in that genre to fill their time with.

Again, either release it before, or go home. And yes, I realise THQ's staff is small comparitively, but I think I have numbers to back my hypothesis.

snared04

Grim Dawn has a different enough setting, mood, graphical design and weapon system to make it interesting for Diablo fans.

Which is why Titan Quest inevitably saw such a large draw from Diablo fans, having been released half a decade after Diablo II came out...

^ "half a decade" being the key term here.

3-4 months isn't going to draw jack from the Diablo crowd.

TQ had far more problems than Torchlight and hopefully Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn.

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#121 Krelian-co
Member since 2006 • 13274 Posts

[QUOTE="MyopicCanadian"][QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

This: * Gameplay designed to expand through downloadable content to provide 200 levels of character progression, equipment, and enemies to fight makes for ridiculous amounts of replay value. Made me very very uninterested in the game. its in what? alpha? yet they are considering DLC at this time O.o? Hell even before that =/

KalDurenik

What are you even talking about? They need to create framework for the game to easily distribute additional content as they release it.. of course they're going to be designing that from the start.

Im against DLC. Give me a good expansions that expand upon the game and give new areas, quests, loot, classes, game features, models, textures and other improvements to the engine and not just "dur here you go for 5$ one new area with 2 quests!"

that kind of expansions dont exist anymore, welcome to dlcs where they add a bad map or two and nothing else and charge you for it.

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Renevent42

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#122 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

[QUOTE="Renevent42"][QUOTE="snared04"]

Saw this a few weeks ago, looks great and I'll definitely buy it as some point, however I have to say that their release schedule couldn't be worse. Get it out in the next 4-5 months, and that'll be good. But releasing it next year? In the wake of Diablo III...? gotta be kidding me on that decision making paradigm.

snared04

They are not intentionally releasing along side Diablo 3...nothing to do with decision making. The game is taking a long to to develop because they are an extremely small company and they only have so many man hours available. It's looking like (if Diablo 3 is released Q4 this year) that Grim Dawn will come out a good 3-4 months after Diablo 3 anyways. People do buy more than one game you know in the same genre. I know I personally will get both no matter the release. And Grim Dawn will be $20 as well so it's not like it's directly competing with Diablo 3 anyways.

Err... I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they are intelligent enough to know that releasing an extremely similiar game next to a competing game launched by the most successful game company known to man is ALWAYS something to factor in.

That being said, seeing as how Diablo II is still going strong ten years after launch, I can hardly see 3-4 months as being an adequately long period of time for that honeymoon stage to wear off, and Diablo III players to even start thinking about other games in that genre to fill their time with.

Again, either release it before, or go home. And yes, I realise THQ's staff is small comparitively, but I think I have numbers to back my hypothesis.

Benefit of the doubt? :lol: Anyways the game doesn't have a huge budget they said if they can get 100K sales they consider the game a success. They've also said they aren't competing with Diablo 3 (heck, the main designer of Grim Dawn loves Diablo) and they are releasing the game cheap. It will be a digital game released through steam so it will have a wide audience. Titan Quest also has tons of fans, and I think people are generally excited about the prospect of a ARPG from the guys who help make it. It's a different setting, darker and grittier world, and retains the unique class system from TQ. I think there's even some crossover from the people who think Diablo 3 is too bright and cuddly...so that's another potential demographic that may be interested. If Grim Dawn was some huge budget game that competed directly against D3 you would have a point...but it's not. Further more with digital distribution the video game market place has changed anyways. The conventional wisdom you talk about is no longer valid.
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#123 Postal_Guy
Member since 2006 • 2643 Posts

I love TQ, i'm still playing it (well, thats because it randomly crashes).

Looking forward to this!

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#124 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

New screen shot added:

adsfasdf

Also, dev made an interesting description about the image:

Behold, my mighty crossbow of zapping and poisonization! Okay, so maybe that isn't the real name and maybe the electrical dmg actually comes from a necklace but, hey, this is a dramatization... As you can see, I've scored a hit on a Rifthound as it charges across a plank-bridge and my charged necklace has triggered delivering bonus electrical damage. I started shooting them when they were way off to the left of the screenshot but Rifthounds are fast... very fast. You can see the front of the pack is already across the river and about to circle around behind me. Of course, also behind me is a row of thermite mines. :p

GrimDawnDev

So seems like there will be a better use of terrain/elevation in Grim Dawn, in addition elemental damage from other items procing effects.

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#125 Lach0121
Member since 2007 • 11815 Posts

[QUOTE="snared04"]

Saw this a few weeks ago, looks great and I'll definitely buy it as some point, however I have to say that their release schedule couldn't be worse. Get it out in the next 4-5 months, and that'll be good. But releasing it next year? In the wake of Diablo III...? gotta be kidding me on that decision making paradigm.

Elann2008

True. People will be playing Diablo 3 for a while. If it's anything like its predecessors, it will have longevity, therefore crushing Grim Dawn along its path if they release it after Diablo 3. They should release it by summer. Fall would be cutting it too close because there's a good chance now that Diablo 3 might come out later this year. But it looks like their window of opportunity is gone... and it's going to hurt sales for them. They should capitalize on releasing it before Diablo 3, because people are having Diablo withdrawal and Grim Dawn would have been a good filler along with Torchlight 2.

I agree, releasing it by the end of Summer would be best, that is if it is finished! Don't want another unfinished buggy product,instead of a wonderful work of art!

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Renevent42

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#127 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

Just released a new screenshot of the new class...Occultist. Not a lot of info yet but looks pretty wicked...probably will have some kind of demonic skills/summoning.

asdfsdaf

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#128 elalcaudon
Member since 2011 • 25 Posts
This is great news titan quest was my favorite diablo clone i really enjoyed it alot got over 40 hours of gameplay from it plus the expansion
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Renevent42

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#129 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts
I got well over 200 hours :P Actually, I was bored last night and started a new character again lol.
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#130 bloodreaperfx
Member since 2006 • 415 Posts

Wow, character animations (DW stance), inventory, even graphic engine look exactly the same as TQ. Pretty neat. I loved TQ. I just hope they get more support and a decent publisher. TQ+IM were underated as hell. A shame really.

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#131 Gooeykat
Member since 2006 • 3412 Posts
Dang, those are some nice, detailed textures in that screenshot.
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Renevent42

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#133 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

Just released a couple screenshots showing the updated UI/inventory/HUD:

asdfsdafa

dfgdsfgsdfg

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#134 Walincas
Member since 2006 • 511 Posts

This looks NAJS.

Definately going to get this game!

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Renevent42

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#135 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts
What is NAJS?
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#136 Bros89
Member since 2004 • 624 Posts

I really like the atmo in this one, i shall buy it aswell.

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#137 Walincas
Member since 2006 • 511 Posts

What is NAJS?Renevent42

Im a redneck, so instead of writing NICE, im writing NAJS :)

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Elann2008

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#138 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts

Just released a couple screenshots showing the updated UI/inventory/HUD:

asdfsdafa

dfgdsfgsdfg

Renevent42

NICE! This and Dead State need to come out fast. I'm becoming restless.

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#139 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 11895 Posts

Why do people always have to compare a game to the most popular in it's genre.|

OMG this game is like CoD

OMG this game is like Halo

OMG this game is like WoW

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Renevent42

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#140 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts
Because it's an easy way to criticize a game.
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#141 1076751
Member since 2008 • 328 Posts

Life is short and time is very limited. Which means I only have enough time to play the best of the best.

Blizzard, hurry up with Diablo III will you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Renevent42

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#142 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

Variety is the spice of life. Plus, the reality is other games in the genre tend to offer different takes and unique ideas.

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#143 donnovan86
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
Is there an official release date for the game?
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#145 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

New interview with Aurthor Bruno by Rock Paper Shotgun:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/03/titanic-quest-crate-speak-about-grim-dawn/

Titanic Quest: Crate Speak About Grim Dawn

By John Walker on August 3rd, 2011 at 11:03 am.

Crate Entertainment, an indie development studio born out of the ashes of Titan Quest creators Iron Lore, have been working on their first major project for a while now. Grim Dawn, built using the tech behind Titan Quest, will hopefully be entering alpha at some point this year, and it's a game we're extremely excited to see. So we caught up with Crate's core man, Arthur Bruno, to learn more. In a wonderful interview he tells us about the fall of Iron Lore, and the birth of Crate, explains where Titan Quest fell short, and how Grim Dawn is not attempting to appeal to casual players. In fact, it's going to be actively hostile toward them. And he introduces us to the concept of rainbow farting machines.

RPS: Can you explain a little about how Iron Lore came to an end, and then how Crate began?

Arthur Bruno: There were many decisions and factors within and outside the studio's control that lead directly or indirectly, over the course of several years, to the studio's ultimate demise. In some ways it is similar to when an individual suffers some misfortune like a car accident and then looks back and thinks about how the whole terrible event could have been averted if any number of little, seemingly innocuous events or decisions had played out differently. "If only that other guy had been going the speed limit, if only I hadn't stopped to get the coffee that spilled in my lap and distracted me, if only my boss hadn't kept me at work late to fill out my TPS reports."

Ultimately though, all the decisions the company made and all the events that transpired, lead to a situation where Iron Lore couldn't survive a gap between projects. This is generally what has occurred when a seemingly healthy independent studio suddenly vanishes after releasing a game.

What a lot of people don't realize is that many, if not most independent studios, make little or no money off the actual sales of games they develop. If you take the case of Titan Quest and Immortal Throne, information I've been given put the combined sales over a million copies in late 2008. At that time I heard that it had reached profitability for THQ. Since then it has continued to do surprisingly well in digital sales given its age. Yet, the owners of Iron Lore never and probably will never receive a royalty payment due to the structure of the funding deal.

Studios survive by jumping right from one publisher funded project to the next and try to build enough of a profit margin into their development budgets that they can potentially survive a few months between funded projects. Supporting a thirty person development team, similar to what Iron Lore and most mid-sized studios employ can cost $300,000 a month or more when you add up salaries, office rent, taxes, and other operating costs. Those costs don't all stop after the last publisher payment is cashed and until funding starts for a new game, the studio is just burning through whatever they've managed to stash away.

It generally takes a hit game before a studio can build up enough of a nest-egg that there is some breathing room in this cycle. Until that happens, the count-down to bankruptcy is always running and each new funded project just puts a little more time on the clock. For a variety of reasons, some just bad luck, Iron Lore couldn't line up that next project fast enough and the clock ran out…

RPS: Were you happy with Titan Quest? Was there anything about it you wished you could have done but couldn't?

Bruno: Yes and no. Over time the game went on to sell rather well considering the slow start it had. Given how few games are profitable for publishers, I have to think Titan Quest was at least a success in that regard. I also continue to be amazed at how long some fans have been playing the game and the fact that the number of people playing seems to still be growing so long after release. Although it is now barely hanging on, you can still often see it among the top 100 games by players on Steam. So yeah, Iron Lore is gone but I do think Titan Quest turned out to be a game that I'm proud to have worked on.

There are of course many things I wish we could have done differently or better. I could probably write an entire dissertation about it. One of the biggest things I would have liked to improve was the general presentation and feel of the game. God of War's dark and edgy feel was a much sexier way to sell mythology to people. You can see our obvious attempt to course correct as much as we were allowed to in the difference between the Titan Quest and Immortal Throne box art and the atmosphere of the games overall. The atmosphere of the original game was seriously lacking a sense of dread and mystery. It was just sort of like "Oh hai! Welcome to ancient Greece, btw there are some monsters around."

I believe this all impacted people's early perception of what the game was about and didn't help us much when it came to marketing. Regardless of features or other information about the game, I think at some level people just sort of look at the material available, the screenshots, the box art on the store shelf, and quickly form an impression of what the game is. If that superficial impression isn't appealing enough, they won't be interested in learning more and you've lost them. Even if they would have loved the game, they will never know it unless sometime down the road, someone recommends it to them or they have some cause to re-examine it. I think Titan Quest as a franchise really failed in this regard. I've read so many stories about people who initially passed up Titan Quest but then ended up playing it years later and loved it. This is something we've been really conscious of in designing the look and atmosphere of Grim Dawn… Hell, even the name!

Another big issue with Titan Quest was the feel and pacing of combat. One of the most frequent complaints I've seen about Titan Quest was that people felt like combat was slow and attacks had no real sense of power or impact. A lot of this stems from a lack of satisfying combat effects, hit reactions and death effects. The mandate that the game stay within an "E for everyone" or "T for teen" rating really restricted us here. It was rather funny when the original box shipped with an "M for mature" rating because the rating board decided the nymph pet was too scantily clad even though no actual naughty parts were showing and it was tiny on-screen. That eventually got amended.

I could go on and on but the last, most significant thing to me was the lack of secure multiplayer. THQ just didn't want to invest the money for that. The previous two issues are things we've greatly improved upon for Grim Dawn but secure multiplayer is still something that eludes us due to the cost – for now… If the game is successful enough, this is something we will be keen to develop in the future.

Did you think about developing something other than an ARPG when you started Crate?

Bruno: Well, originally we set out to pitch the last game we had started developing at Iron Lore, which was a multi-platform, open-world RPG with action-****combat. It was sort of a Gears of War meets Oblivion. We had a demo for Xbox 360 showing off PvP combat and our gruesome "overkill" system. It was pretty damn fun, but it also came with a relatively large price-tag. A few publishers had been very interested when we were pitching it at Iron Lore but, ultimately, they couldn't stay alive long enough to see a deal through. For Crate, it was quite a tough sell trying to convince publishers to invest that much in a small start-up studio during a time of economic crisis. As the world economy went down the toilet and publisher funding dried up even for established studios, we decided it was an impossible mission.

It was a tough time and I actually considered calling it quits. The prospect of getting any funding to do anything seemed dreary at best and we had no programmer, so it didn't seem like we could do much by ourselves. It was at that point that I learned the owners of Iron Lore had moved on to other things and had no plans to use the Titan Quest engine. I also noticed that the number of active users on titanquest.net had grown dramatically over the years instead of declining as you'd typically expect. I realized there were a lot of Titan Quest fans who wanted another game, so I went to talk to the Iron Lore owners and worked out a deal for the rights to the engine.

With a complete engine and toolset, we were able to begin building a new game straight away. A few months down the road we got a programmer on board, which has allowed us to make a lot of improvements and add a bunch of very cool new features. Over time, we found more outside help, mainly from ex-Iron Lore colleagues and some other volunteers and Grim Dawn slowly took shape.

So, our return to ARPG was really sort of a natural progression. Perhaps you could call it fate? It is my favourite genre, alongside RTS, and I feel like I have unfinished business here after Titan Quest, so I'm quite pleased to be working on ARPG's again.

RPS: Grim Dawn isn't set on Earth, nor during a period of recognised mythology. So can you explain a bit about the process of coming up with your world and its history?

Bruno: Creating fictional worlds has long been a sort of hobby of mine ever since a relative bought me Lord of the Rings when I was about ten or eleven. When I finished the books, probably for the fifth time, I wanted more. Alas, there wasn't much else that really compared to Tolkien at the time, so I set about planning my own epic fantasy novel… Mainly that has revolved around imagining and detailing out fictional worlds but never actually writing much. Since I tended to be more interested in designing worlds than writing fiction, this interest aligned well with game design.

I think all that imagining of fantasy worlds sparked an interest in ancient history and I ended up majoring in it, in college. A background in ancient history helps tremendously in planning out the history of a fantasy world and the characteristics of its civilizations. When fantasy locations, characters, or cultures are too far removed from the real world, I think people have a tough time relating to them. They have no frame of reference within which to ground the fantasy elements. I believe this is the primary reason that most fantasy cultures in books, movies and games tend to be modelled after real-world cultures, rather than it just being a lack of imagination on the part of the creators. Of course, this can also feel rather cheesy when it isn't done right.

So, generally I use a historical culture or a combination of historical cultures as a foundation. Then of course, you have to figure out your time period, which might inform the choice of cultures. With a culture and time period, you have to think through the technology and decide what will mirror the real-world and where things might diverge. If you have magic, you have to account for how that might have impacted the development of technology. For example, if your fictional civilization has tamed magical unicorns that fart rainbows and can run at the speed of sound, then they may not have had any reason to invent automobiles or rainbow farting machines as we have in the real world.

A sense of consistency and logic is necessary to create a truly believable fantasy world. From there, it just requires good creative judgment to flesh things out in a way that will be believable and compelling to people.

RPS: While a lot of ARPGs will create an elaborate backstory, they do tend to somewhat forget to tell a – I guess – forestory. Will your game have a meaningful narrative, or does that get in the way of the hacking and slashing?

Bruno: I believe that a meaningful narrative could be worked into an ARPG as long as it was done in such a way that it did not intrude into the gameplay of those who weren't interested in it.

Grim Dawn, however, isn't really focused on one flowing narrative. We're more interested in providing backstory and atmosphere. We also want to tie the player down to one chronological sequence of events, but aim to give the player some latitude as to the order in which they do things or in terms of what they decide to complete. You might say our narrative is told indirectly through a collection of smaller, side-quest type stories that all trend together and cast light on the event that destroyed human civilization, the last hours of dead, the struggles and loss of those who survived. As the player progresses, they will also start to convey hope as Grim Dawn is ultimately a story of survival and redemption. Many of the quests will revolve around protecting and rebuilding the scattered, fragile human enclaves, and helping individuals get back some of what they've lost.

Of course, we're a very small team and our resources are limited, so I'm not sure how much far we'll be able to go in terms of story. Developing story and quests is always one of the more demanding aspects of RPG development. We've put a lot of thinking and creativity into the planning of our world. If we aren't able to fully realize our goals for the story and back-story in the first release, it is something we will continue to develop with the release of later content. Our hope is that the first release of Grim Dawn will be enough of a success that we're able to expand our team and really build out the game a lot more in our next offering.

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Renevent42

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#146 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

RPS: The action RPG seems to be becoming more popular of late, which is great news. How will Grim Dawn stand out – what makes it unique?

Bruno: I think we're probably unique just in the sense that, while most studios are redesigning their games to be more casual-player friendly, we're busy making Grim Dawn more complex and probably casual-player hostile.

I think older, traditional PC games had a certain magic that has been lost in most modern games. Bethesda comes to mind as one of the few big companies left still making games with the kind of depth and magic that games had when I was a kid. I mean no disrespect in saying this, but their games are sort of complex, clunky, and often rife with imbalance and exploit. The very sort of imbalances and exploits that I delight in discovering and abusing but not the sort that are so bad they ruin the game. They are the sort of complex but loose systems that leave the player wondering how far they can push the limits of what is possible, and where there are no hard caps obviously and arbitrarily restricting what they can do. I sometimes wonder whether this sort of thing is intentional or not. I certainly add some deliberate measure of this in my games where I can get away with it.

I love systems that are asymmetrical and chaotic, where the player can't easily see the tell-tale structure and patterns of deliberate, organized human design. The real world isn't always perfectly planned or sensible and I don't think game worlds should be either, otherwise you see the hand of the developers everywhere you look and it erodes the magic of feeling like you are in a living and unpredictable world. Exploration of game systems is all about the discovery of what is possible. When there is too clear a structure and pattern to the design, not only does it feel artificial but the player is much more quickly able to assess the limits of the system. Unfortunately, most of the industry is moving away from this sort of design.

There has been a growing realization in the industry, propelled in previous years by Wii sales and more recently by the astronomical success of social games like FarmVille and smartphone games like Angry Birds, that the vast scale of the casual market makes it a veritable goldmine. Publishers and developers are increasingly looking to boost their sales by attracting more of the casual market and increase their revenue by getting this larger audience to make a lot of small purchases.

To court the casual audience, developers are simplifying game systems and minimizing the potential for inexperienced players to make bad choices. They're reducing the amount of time it takes to finish games, adding a constant stream of visible rewards for increasingly simplified achievements, and allowing players to pay for success when the effort of achieving it through the game proves too challenging or time consuming. We've come a long way from my childhood, where failure in most games caused you to start completely over from the beginning, to a point where it is impossible to fail in many games and in some you can just pull out your credit card when you decide it is time to win.

The sad reality though, is that this isn't some evil corporate executives have perpetrated upon humanity, it's what people want. At least, some people. Well, as it stands, it appears to be quite a lot of people and that is why the industry and gaming is largely trending in this direction. This is all anathema to what I love about games and is much of the reason that I've forgone earning an income the past couple years and instead slave away, with a few other dedicated souls, to create a game that we hope will embody some of what we loved about the games of yesteryear.

While the casual market is certainly large, the hardcore gaming audience has also grown tremendously over recent years. As the heavyweights of the industry move to grab a piece of the massive casual market I think this creates an opportunity for a smaller company like us. I believe many in the more traditional, core gaming audience are starting to become frustrated with the changes they're seeing to their most beloved games. They say you can't please all of the people all of the time and I think this is certainly true. Our belief is that we can perhaps better please some of the people most of the time by catering Grim Dawn more closely to the desires of that traditional, core audience (and ourselves).

So yeah, what are we doing that is unique? Moving backwards some might say…

RPS: You've already started talking about DLC. Are you intending for this to be content that adds onto the end of the game, or expands it sideways?

Bruno: It will likely be a bit of both. The first release of Grim Dawn will be somewhat comparable to Greece in Titan Quest. That is to say, it will be about one-third of the content that players might expect in a full-sized game, which is why we've priced the normal edition at one-third the cost of a full-sized game. That idea is that we're too small a team to produce a full-sized game on the first go, so we're doing it in pieces. Players will really get a bit more than a third of a game though with the first release since it will include a fairly robust feature set and allow them to replay it on higher difficulties to continue levelling their character.

We're hoping profits from the first release will allow us to expand our team a bit and follow up quickly with more content. Subsequent content will both extend the game with new regions of the world and add to the earlier areas with new ****s, equipment, enemies, and quests.

RPS: Have you explored any other pricing methods than a straight fee for the game? Lots of indies seem to be having success with innovative approaches.


Bruno: Honestly, we don't have time to think about much else beyond making progress with development and getting the alpha out. I've read about the incredible success other companies have seen with different monetization models but it isn't something we're really considering right now. At this point, I think the simplest plan is the best plan. In the future, we'd only look at other models if we felt like they could be implemented in a way that was agreeable to our fans and fit with our own development and gaming ideals.

RPS: Thanks for your time.

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#147 Bros89
Member since 2004 • 624 Posts

nice interview, the guy really sounds like a fun guy to have a drink with.
I love it how he's so passionate about his games, and that he dislikes the enormous casual market:

To court the casual audience, developers are simplifying game systems and minimizing the potential for inexperienced players to make bad choices. They're reducing the amount of time it takes to finish games, adding a constant stream of visible rewards for increasingly simplified achievements, and allowing players to pay for success when the effort of achieving it through the game proves too challenging or time consuming. We've come a long way from my childhood, where failure in most games caused you to start completely over from the beginning, to a point where it is impossible to fail in many games and in some you can just pull out your credit card when you decide it is time to win.


The sad reality though, is that this isn't some evil corporate executives have perpetrated upon humanity, it's what people want. At least, some people. Well, as it stands, it appears to be quite a lot of people and that is why the industry and gaming is largely trending in this direction. This is all anathema to what I love about games and is much of the reason that I've forgone earning an income the past couple years and instead slave away, with a few other dedicated souls, to create a game that we hope will embody some of what we loved about the games of yesteryear.

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So you see boys and girls, its not the corperations who ruin your games (Looks like Diablo III can be added to the "to ruin list"). Its the players itself who want to play games with no depth. So ofcourse if crysis 2, dragon age 2 or diablo 3 launches and people complain about the lack of depth its normal that a lot (probably most) players will defend those games because they like simplified games, its only a small number of people who don't like the superficial games. I mean, games today are so short BUT how many people can't even finish those :P

I will definitly buy this game, it will probably replace diablo III as my new action RPG, not because Diablo III 'sucks' but because i really don't like 'easy/streamlined games where you can buy your victor'. But a lot of people apparently do, so Diablo III will be a good succesful game for that audience. I'm not an elitist i just really like depth in my games :), how harder the better.

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Renevent42

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#148 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts
I like most games (even the "casual" ones)...but being an old school gamer I do have a softspot for older styled games and deeper, unforgiving mechanics. It's sad that most mainstream games these days are moving in a more casual direction, but thanks to smaller companies (like Crate) there will still be games like this to play :)
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#149 Rickylee
Member since 2002 • 1342 Posts

Life is short and time is very limited. Which means I only have enough time to play the best of the best.

Blizzard, hurry up with Diablo III will you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1076751

Sorry but weren't you the person that blew through all the Steam sale games you bought because your in a wheelchair and have nothing else to do but play games? Seems to me you'd have time to do both and who's to say this game won't be good and thus worthy of your attention? Just curious cause I have little else to do also being rertired due to disability.

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#150 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60619 Posts

[quote="article"]

While the casual market is certainly large, the hardcore gaming audience has also grown tremendously over recent years. As the heavyweights of the industry move to grab a piece of the massive casual market I think this creates an opportunity for a smaller company like us. I believe many in the more traditional, core gaming audience are starting to become frustrated with the changes they're seeing to their most beloved games. They say you can't please all of the people all of the time and I think this is certainly true. Our belief is that we can perhaps better please some of the people most of the time by catering Grim Dawn more closely to the desires of that traditional, core audience (and ourselves).

Renevent42



I've been saying this for years, and it is nice to hear my sentiments echoed by an industry professional.

Great interview!