This topic is locked from further discussion.
Thought I'd post this...it's a excerpt from a RPS interview with the lead designer of Crate Entertainment. I think it hits home for a lot of people in how they view a lot of games/developers today and what they want to see instead (looking at you Diablo 3!). I realize (just as he does) that the direction many games are going in is actually what a lot of people want to see, but personally I am glad there still appears to be some high quality old school stuff on the horizon. Can't wait to play stuff like Legend of Grimrock, Grim Dawn, and many others :)
RPS: The action RPG seems to be becoming more popular of late, which is great news. How will Grim Dawn stand out – what makes it unique?
Bruno: I think we're probably unique just in the sense that, while most studios are redesigning their games to be more casual-player friendly, we're busy making Grim Dawn more complex and probably casual-player hostile. I think older, traditional PC games had a certain magic that has been lost in most modern games. Bethesda comes to mind as one of the few big companies left still making games with the kind of depth and magic that games had when I was a kid.
I mean no disrespect in saying this, but their games are sort of complex, clunky, and often rife with imbalance and exploit. The very sort of imbalances and exploits that I delight in discovering and abusing but not the sort that are so bad they ruin the game. They are the sort of complex but loose systems that leave the player wondering how far they can push the limits of what is possible, and where there are no hard caps obviously and arbitrarily restricting what they can do. I sometimes wonder whether this sort of thing is intentional or not. I certainly add some deliberate measure of this in my games where I can get away with it.
I love systems that are asymmetrical and chaotic, where the player can't easily see the tell-tale structure and patterns of deliberate, organized human design. The real world isn't always perfectly planned or sensible and I don't think game worlds should be either, otherwise you see the hand of the developers everywhere you look and it erodes the magic of feeling like you are in a living and unpredictable world. Exploration of game systems is all about the discovery of what is possible. When there is too clear a structure and pattern to the design, not only does it feel artificial but the player is much more quickly able to assess the limits of the system. Unfortunately, most of the industry is moving away from this sort of design.
There has been a growing realization in the industry, propelled in previous years by Wii sales and more recently by the astronomical success of social games like FarmVille and smartphone games like Angry Birds, that the vast scale of the casual market makes it a veritable goldmine. Publishers and developers are increasingly looking to boost their sales by attracting more of the casual market and increase their revenue by getting this larger audience to make a lot of small purchases. To court the casual audience, developers are simplifying game systems and minimizing the potential for inexperienced players to make bad choices. They're reducing the amount of time it takes to finish games, adding a constant stream of visible rewards for increasingly simplified achievements, and allowing players to pay for success when the effort of achieving it through the game proves too challenging or time consuming.
We've come a long way from my childhood, where failure in most games caused you to start completely over from the beginning, to a point where it is impossible to fail in many games and in some you can just pull out your credit card when you decide it is time to win. The sad reality though, is that this isn't some evil corporate executives have perpetrated upon humanity, it's what people want. At least, some people. Well, as it stands, it appears to be quite a lot of people and that is why the industry and gaming is largely trending in this direction. This is all anathema to what I love about games and is much of the reason that I've forgone earning an income the past couple years and instead slave away, with a few other dedicated souls, to create a game that we hope will embody some of what we loved about the games of yesteryear.
While the casual market is certainly large, the hardcore gaming audience has also grown tremendously over recent years. As the heavyweights of the industry move to grab a piece of the massive casual market I think this creates an opportunity for a smaller company like us. I believe many in the more traditional, core gaming audience are starting to become frustrated with the changes they're seeing to their most beloved games. They say you can't please all of the people all of the time and I think this is certainly true. Our belief is that we can perhaps better please some of the people most of the time by catering Grim Dawn more closely to the desires of that traditional, core audience (and ourselves).
So yeah, what are we doing that is unique? Moving backwards some might say… RPSInterview
Started up a new character the other day in TQ. All this D3 hype is getting to me. The sad thing is, I don't D3 will be better than what I already have in TQ.GooeykatIt would be a sad day if Diablo 3 won't be able to be at least as good as the bottom of the list when it comes to this genre.
[QUOTE="Gooeykat"]Started up a new character the other day in TQ. All this D3 hype is getting to me. The sad thing is, I don't D3 will be better than what I already have in TQ.DanielDustIt would be a sad day if Diablo 3 won't be able to be at least as good as the bottom of the list when it comes to this genre. Mmm okay Daniel, trying to pick a fight are we?
[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="Gooeykat"]Started up a new character the other day in TQ. All this D3 hype is getting to me. The sad thing is, I don't D3 will be better than what I already have in TQ.GooeykatIt would be a sad day if Diablo 3 won't be able to be at least as good as the bottom of the list when it comes to this genre. Mmm okay Daniel, trying to pick a fight are we? Nope, why, do you need to make it into a fight to prove something?
For those who are interested they just released a "state of the game" post...looks like alpha ia about 6-8 months off with their current resources, although they are trying to get a kickstarter off the ground so maybe they can get a few more devs on board depending on how successful it is.
Figured I'd post something talking about where we are, where we have to go and when people can roughly expect various releases since it seems to be getting asked with increasing frequency and it would be better to just refer people to one place then continuing to respond to individual posts.
Where is the game at?
Gameplay:
As you can see from the Occultist video, the gameplay is well developed and already quite fun. Balance is fairly good for an alpha. Physics, pathing, and all of those sort of underlying systems are in reasonable shape but could use polish. Unfortunately, there just isn't enough playable or content to constitute an alpha quite yet. More on that below. Major UI is all working, although the art could use some love.
World
This is probably the single most significant effort left before we can release the full game. We have an area almost finished that would probably provide about 2-4 hours of gameplay that is probably sufficient for the alpha. There is a much larger expanse of world beyond that, which is laid out but in varying levels of completion. Finally, there are areas we've planned even further out that don't yet exist. I put together a quick little progress-map using a shot of the actual levels taken from the editor layout mode to help illustrate this.
The green areas are the mostly finished levels. This is probably about large enough for us to begin the alpha with once we finish adding the quests, close off the exits into unplayable area, and tidy it up. As I said, this is probably about 2-4 hours but could grow once it has some questing. It can also currently be replayed up to level 30 since I haven't put the enemy level cap on the starting area yet. The yellow area outlines levels that are semi-developed and wouldn't take too much work to finish but need revisions, final setup of enemies and loot proxies, and polish. Some of these areas though flow right into less finished orange regions and couldn't be opened up for the alpha until the adjacent orange areas were finished. The orange represents levels that range from partially completed but still needing a fair amount of work to barely started levels that need a lot of work but for which we have all or almost all of the necessary art assets. Red levels are basically prototypes that need more art before they could be finished.
Purple represents an approximation of the additional areas we want to build for the final release. For some of these areas, we already have all or most of the art needed. Others would need a larger amount of new artwork before we could begin building them. Undergrounds and "rift areas" are currently just set up as prototypes and need to have their entrances hooked into the world. We need a much larger number of finished undergrounds.
Skill Masteries
We have 3 of the skill masteries nearly completed (the other two being Soldier and Demolition). The other two masteries I've started are about 1/3 and 1/2 finished. We could go alpha with 3 masteries as we continue to work on the remaining 2. This is probably the biggest gameplay task left to finish before final release.
Enemies We have two major enemy sets that are basically completed with a large number of skills and behaviors that create interesting tactical situations. These are the zombies / aether corruptions and the grobles / dranghouls. We then have 3 minor enemy sets that include 2-3 enemy types and a couple solitary enemies mostly finished. In total we have 20 unique enemy models right now. Each of those has or will have 2-5 different "****" variants and hero monsters based off them. Of that 20 though, 15 are in-game while 5 have finished models but are waiting on waiting animation and design work to get them in-game.
Also in that 20 are 3 mini-boss / boss type creates but one is still waiting on animation and design work. Note that these numbers do not include human enemies, of which there are currently outlaws and cultists. About 6-8 more regular enemies and another boss monster would probably be enough to ship with but I'd be much happier if we had 12-15 additional enemies and 2-3 more bosses. There are currently no named hero versions finished, just normal and champion and the two bosses.
Loot and Economy
We have all of the common items in-game for normal difficulty. We have large number of magical affixes in-game too so that the looting feels fairly rewarding. There are almost no unique items in yet though. We have art for about 20 unique melee weapons and a couple pieces of armor but we obviously need much more. This is something we could easily outsource if we just had a full-time artist who could help managing the outsourcing and getting the returned items game-ready. The economy is in pretty good shape. It is actually refreshingly challenging to accumulate money and there is a good balance of finding items in the world vs. wanting to buy stuff off merchants.
Story / Quests
We have a good background for the game and a rough outline of what we want to do for the main quests. We also have brand new, much easier to use and more powerful quest and conversation editors. However, almost nothing is implemented here. We've have a few prototype quests set up in-game that will probably be in the final game but need polishing up, especially in the dialog department.
Stability
The game is running reasonably well for an alpha and I can often play for 30 minutes or more without any problems. There are a few major bugs and occasional crashes though, as well as little bugs that range from annoying to comical. This is all to be expected at this stage though and I think we're generally in good shape.
Feature / Code Completion
The game is nearly feature-complete but there are still various revisions and fixes that need to happen to some existing features and there is a lot of work that needs to be done to get multiplayer working. Our overhaul of pathing, physics and various systems broke multiplayer and the work needed to get it working again is difficult and could be extensive. That said, we could release the alpha without multiplayer and continue to work on it. There are a few things that need to happen before alpha.
Releases
Alpha Release
We're not far off from a minimalist alpha where players can replay a small chunk of the world that comprises about 3-4 hours of gameplay. With the enemy level caps off, it could be replayed up to level 30. The following is a rough list of the most significant tasks that would need to be finished:
Rough estimate is that this will take 6-8 months to complete with our current resources.
Beta Release
The time between alpha and beta will depend on whether we want to shoot for a real content-complete beta or more of a Minecraft or Path of Exile ****beta where the game is more complete than alpha but still in development. I'm thinking we're probably going to want to go with the work-in-progress ****beta. I think we would still want to aim to have a more significant level of content built out though and this could take some time. With our current resources, it might 4-6 months from the start of alpha but we won't know until we see how alpha goes.
Final Release
We can't really provide a good estimate right now given our current situation. Getting to the full release is mainly just a matter of filling out content though at this point.
medierra
TQ is a solid game but nerds like to put it on pedestal in the absence of the Diablo.Elann2008
Or maybe those "nerds" (we are all nerds if we are on a gaming forum lets be real here) actually really liked Titans Quest as much as Diablo?
I know for me personally Titans Quest cant hold a candle to Diablo but I respect others opinions who like Titans Quest as much as Diablo or more.
I know plenty of people who's favorite series is Diablo but still ended up loving Titans Quest to.
Everyone has there own personal opinions, if some Titans Quest fans really like it more then Diablo then so be it, its there own opinion. I just don't see how TQ fans are NERDS because they enjoy TQ as much or more then diablo. Myself I think Diablo series destroys TQ, but thats besides the point.. everyone enjoys different things.
New video about how they are creating the sound/music from the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bKb5rX9_P1M Pretty cool, and they of course give props to Matt Uelmen as their inspiration, which I think is cool. Anyways the kickstarter is now at $215,000...almost there! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crateentertainment/grim-dawnRenevent42
Matt Uelmen is one of my favorite composers, and half of the reason I am waiting for Torchlight 2 to release.
Video game music is a big inspiration for my music, and Matt has always struck a "chord" with me ever since I heard his work on the Original Diablo.
Path of Exile for the multiplayer and Grim Dawn for it's singleplayer. Diablo 3 is a distant memory. To be honest 4 years ago I would not even think we would be seeing any decent pc catered games anymore. Yet from 2011 onwards indies really can obtain alot of pc market share. This might be the beginning of the rise of new companies delivering games optimized for pc. The cycle restarts.Sentinel112the cycle actually restarted in 2007
Updated main page with a couple new screen shots. Also just some updated info...the kickstarter was wildly successful generating almost $500K so they will now add a bunch of new features/content to the game. Also, they have been able to hire some folks full including an artist, a designer, and an animator...so the quality of the game should be even better. Some of them actually came over from (the now defunct) 38 Studios.
Anyways some stuff the devs been working on:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4490
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4287
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4267
Update on epic/unique/items. Their intent is that while these items won't rain from the sky or anything, you will start to find powerful unique/set items starting from around level 10. Basically same deal as Titan Quest. While uniques are not always guaranteed to be better than a great regular magic item, you should feel happy when seeing blue text on the ground because more often than not it will be an upgrade. They will also follow specific themes and beyond unique names will have unique art and attributes.
Also note, these are just the first teir of epics/set items...like Titan Quest in later difficulties entirely new teir of items (legendaries) start popping up.
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=70866#post70866
Apologies for the delay to your regular broadcast. Those responsible have been tortured and maimed. Now back to the news:
Hello and welcome to Grim Misadventures! Zantai reporting with an update that is 105% (+/- 5%) elected by the community. With a majority that would make presidential candidates jealous, epic items won last weeks poll with 66.04% of the votes submitted. Epic items in Grim Dawn are the first tier of our hand-crafted itemization. These are powerful rare items with strong themes and some unique effects.
While they may not always be better than a rare quality item, seeing blue on the screen should be a moment of happy fun times. As of now, all epics planned for the alpha stage have been theorized, calculated, morphed, forged, teleported, and stamped. Thats good stuff! In case you are wondering, thats 81 delicious items ready to drop from just about anywhere*.
Epic items will begin at level 10, but you may see them drop sooner if the luck of the roll is with you. Without further delay, we will let the items speak for themselves. *Items will not drop just about anywhere. But they sure do drop all over the place! Disclaimer: the following names, stats, requirements, and more stats are work in progress and may not reflect the final product. Complainers will be thoroughly mocked. These items do not yet have their final art. You can hurt the slacker artists (Please dont hurt the artists. Theyre not slackers.).
developer
I would say they learned a lesson from D3 (as is, what not to do)...but honestly this is how it worked in Titan Quest so really they are just improving what they had already done in the past :)
Examples:
Well it's just the alpha, so keep that in mind. With that said people are already planning to live stream it: http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7157 So it will be pretty easy for folks to see it in action if they weren't part of the alpha. There's no NDA, either, so it's all good :)Renevent42
Good to hear the game is coming along nicely and the enthousiasm of the fans. I will watch some alpha gameplay when it's out.
Necro! Thread! attirex
Not in this case. This is a genuine update with new info :|Â
Who cares? It's relevant to the topic and pertains to both the game the thread is based on and an event that is current (alpha release).Renevent42
I would have to agree, a justified necro of a thread.
I, for one, am glad you did so. Its good to hear the game is coming along.
Looks like an interesting and fresh, unused setting for an ARPG, the pictures have a vibe of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. to it, just with more film noir atmosphere
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment