3ds specs are here!

That's not true at all. Anything besides your basic frustum culling requires a lot of CPU work, and that's not happening on an ARM11. Normal maps only add surface detail, and do nothing silhouettes. Plus a lot of times you need to split up surfaces so that you can mirror texture coords, or add per-vertex lighting/color. Tessellation increases the triangle count, meaning it makes the problem even worse.

Teufelhuhn

In the case of normal mapping, doesn't the added surface detail replace the need for more detailed models(i.e. higher poly count)? I remember reading that IW managed to have higher quality character models in COD4 despite using lower poly models than COD2 as a result of normal mapping.

So does normal mapping make use of tessellation illogical, or is it simply too computationally intense for a gpu like the PICA200 to handle? I assumed that these techniques would just work like they do on current PCs, but I guess there's a baseline power requirement to utilitze them. Thanks for your input, I'm always glad to learn more about game development.:)

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]
Back to what I was saying, though. Autostereo will make the games look way better than increased poly count could ever manage to do on it's own.

Teufelhuhn

I still feel like the stereo3D effect will do more for perceived image quality than just throwing more polygons at the scene. I had the chance to play around with Nvidia's 3D vision, and even something as simple as a cube looks incredible floating in space before your eyes, and is an effect that a high poly scene with the highest quality lighting and DoF can't replicate.

Well enough for a handheld. Like many others I like what I've seen, I wonder what the price is going to be.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/112/1122613p1.html

kinda disappointing when it comes to the gpu . But it has 2 cpus witch is not bad .

dontshackzmii

4MB VRAM?? OUCH!!!

people see the games = wow impressive

people read specs = disappointing, it sucks

Since when it's a handheld supposed to be a powerfull machine? Isn't that the reason why we have consoles and PCs in our house?

While this is old news I just thought I should share...

This is the Nvidia Tegra 2

• two ARM Cortex A9's at 1.0 ghz
• a dedicated 2d/3d GPU
• up to 1920x1080 resolution
• low power requirements
• DDR2 ram
• support for 3d touchscreen UI
• etc.

Facts: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra_250.html

Tegra 2 tech demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGtu_ZkwqA

So what's with the 3DS :? If the specs hold true handhelds from other companies should really make the 3DS look dated even before launch.

I'm not meaning to be a party killer, as I myself am planning on getting a 3DS, but this is just weird.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/112/1122613p1.html

kinda disappointing when it comes to the gpu . But it has 2 cpus witch is not bad .

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

While this is old news I just thought I should share...

This is the Nvidia Tegra 2

• two ARM Cortex A9's at 1.0 ghz
• a dedicated 2d/3d GPU
• up to 1920x1080 resolution
• low power requirements
• DDR2 ram
• support for 3d touchscreen UI
• etc.

Facts: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra_250.html

Tegra 2 tech demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGtu_ZkwqA

So what's with the 3DS :? If the specs hold true handhelds from other companies should really make the 3DS look dated even before launch.

I'm not meaning to be a party killer, as I myself am planning on getting a 3DS, but this is just weird.

sayyy-gaa

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

While this is old news I just thought I should share...

This is the Nvidia Tegra 2

• two ARM Cortex A9's at 1.0 ghz
• a dedicated 2d/3d GPU
• up to 1920x1080 resolution
• low power requirements
• DDR2 ram
• support for 3d touchscreen UI
• etc.

Facts: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra_250.html

Tegra 2 tech demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGtu_ZkwqA

So what's with the 3DS :? If the specs hold true handhelds from other companies should really make the 3DS look dated even before launch.

I'm not meaning to be a party killer, as I myself am planning on getting a 3DS, but this is just weird.

sayyy-gaa

I still like my gamegear more than my gameboy to this day.:D

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

While this is old news I just thought I should share...

This is the Nvidia Tegra 2

• two ARM Cortex A9's at 1.0 ghz
• a dedicated 2d/3d GPU
• up to 1920x1080 resolution
• low power requirements
• DDR2 ram
• support for 3d touchscreen UI
• etc.

Facts: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra_250.html

Tegra 2 tech demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGtu_ZkwqA

So what's with the 3DS :? If the specs hold true handhelds from other companies should really make the 3DS look dated even before launch.

I'm not meaning to be a party killer, as I myself am planning on getting a 3DS, but this is just weird.

NVIDIATI

The only thing that will cast a shadow over the 3ds is the 3ds advance when it's released 6 years from now. Every precedent for the past 20+ years has shown that technically superior handhelds won't do anything to nintendo's dominance.

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/112/1122613p1.html

kinda disappointing when it comes to the gpu . But it has 2 cpus witch is not bad .

Scoob64

4MB VRAM?? OUCH!!!

How is that ouch! Seems like that's pretty great actually.
I'm just gonna quote brain_stew from neogaf since he knows a whole lot more about this stuff than I do:

"The 4MB framebuffer will definitely not be cheap. That's 40% of the dedicated RAM that the 360 has, the same amount of dedicated RAM the PS2 has and more than the GCN/Wii has. Considering the resolution is much lower than any of them systems, its bloody massive. That 4MB of dedicated memory will do a lot more for performance in games than shifting upto 128MB would have done with in a GPU in this performance range."

"Its much more than I expected. The Wii has to push more than twice as many pixels (yes that includes the bottom screen and both viewpoints) and only has a 3MB embedded framebuffer."

''kinda disappointing when it comes to the gpu'' oh let me guess.. u assumed is a bad GPU just because of the clock speed :lol: ?

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"] Not weird...it's Nintendo. Dude, when I was a young whippersnapper we talked all day about why the original(i.e. brick) gameboy was so big and bulky and in B/W. My friends and I thought for sure everyone would get a game gear or TG16.20 years later Ninty is doing the same thing,and it's working. topgunmv

The only thing that will cast a shadow over the 3ds is the 3ds advance when it's released 6 years from now. Every precedent for the past 20+ years has shown that technically superior handhelds won't do anything to nintendo's dominance.

1.5GBs of storage? I think, if true, this means we could see a price point even lower than $199

Honestly, this should have 8GB minimum, this makes me think Nintendo is cutting costs coz, well 3D is a risk no matter how much it makes sense to us as gamers, I think they could very well get a $149-$179 price point if they really want.

''kinda disappointing when it comes to the gpu'' oh let me guess.. u assumed is a bad GPU just because of the clock speed :lol: ?

Tessellation

sadly thats a mistake alot of people make

In the case of normal mapping, doesn't the added surface detail replace the need for more detailed models(i.e. higher poly count)? I remember reading that IW managed to have higher quality character models in COD4 despite using lower poly models than COD2 as a result of normal mapping.

gamecubepad

So does normal mapping make use of tessellation illogical, or is it simply too computationally intense for a gpu like the PICA200 to handle? I assumed that these techniques would just work like they do on current PCs, but I guess there's a baseline power requirement to utilitze them. Thanks for your input, I'm always glad to learn more about game development.:)

gamecubepad

I still feel like the stereo3D effect will do more for perceived image quality than just throwing more polygons at the scene. I had the chance to play around with Nvidia's 3D vision, and even something as simple as a cube looks incredible floating in space before your eyes, and is an effect that a high poly scene with the highest quality lighting and DoF can't replicate.

gamecubepad

was expecting much more , nintendo is the king of selling old hardware xD

was expecting much more , nintendo is the king of selling old hardware xD

narog84

Much more and we would've had a really bad battery life. Gotta think, it's gonna be doing 3d graphics all the time, powering a new 3D screen too, with all the other goodies it might have that we don't know yet. If they would've gone more powerful, they'd have to get higher costing hardware and a better battery. Right now, I bet they're trying to make it as cheap as possible at first, then release better revisions later on (GBA -> GBA SP -> GBA Micro. NDS -> NDS Lite -> DSi -> DSi XL.) They're also breaking through another barrier, from 2D screens to 3D screens, and in a recovering market too.

1.5GBs of storage? I think, if true, this means we could see a price point even lower than $199

Honestly, this should have 8GB minimum, this makes me think Nintendo is cutting costs coz, well 3D is a risk no matter how much it makes sense to us as gamers, I think they could very well get a $149-$179 price point if they really want.

darth-pyschosis

Teufelhuhn

Thanks man. I honestly thought occlusion culling was just a general term for not rendering polygons that aren't visible to the viewport, and until you mentioned it, I wasn't even aware that there were different techniques to do it.:P So maybe backface culling was the term I was thinking of?

So what do you think of the PICA200 GPU and the MAESTRO extensions? I never bought into the whole "360/PS3" level gfx rumor that IGN was pushing, but it seems like it has a lot of the same capabilities that the original Xbox had. The Resident Evil Revelations demo was quite impressive, albeit, a giant cutscene. What do you think the chances of seeing a game like RE4 running with slightly lower polycount, but better lighting and normal mapping are?

Good good, should be affordable then shouldn't it and we have already been impressed by what they can squeeze out of it so nothing to be disappointed by. I was more worried the expensive tech would drive the price up, high priced handheld = no preorder for me :?.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Well that's still quite a false blanket statement.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gamer620"] What is disappointing about the GPU? The article itself states that numerous developers likened it's graphical capabilities to the 360 and PS3... how is that disappointing? Especially for a hand held? What standards are you expecting? sayyy-gaa

2 CPUs... It's gonna be tough to convince me that that was a good idea o.O (why not have a better single CPU?)

2 CPUs... It's gonna be tough to convince me that that was a good idea o.O (why not have a better single CPU?)

Blade8Aus

[QUOTE="Blade8Aus"]

2 CPUs... It's gonna be tough to convince me that that was a good idea o.O (why not have a better single CPU?)

_Pedro_

*facepalm* but if you had a single CPU that was just as powerful as that then it would have to be at least as power efficient, cheaper to produce, be just as good at multi-tasking and better at single applications.

EDIT: that and look at the SEGA Saturn o.O

EDIT2: I'm open to new ideas. especially ones regarding heat. But it'll need to be very convincing...

[QUOTE="_Pedro_"][QUOTE="Blade8Aus"]

2 CPUs... It's gonna be tough to convince me that that was a good idea o.O (why not have a better single CPU?)

Blade8Aus

*facepalm* but if you had a single CPU that was just as powerful as that then it would have to be at least as power efficient, cheaper to produce, be just as good at multi-tasking and better at single applications.

Well... NDS had 2 CPU's also.

little better than the PSP

Doesnt matter anyway, its all about the games and 3DS has the games

still the 3D can hold back the games graphics wise and the low resolution doesnt help (jaggies everywhere)

[QUOTE="Blade8Aus"]

[QUOTE="_Pedro_"] Multitasking. It's actually better to have two cpu's than one. Epak_

*facepalm* but if you had a single CPU that was just as powerful as that then it would have to be at least as power efficient, cheaper to produce, be just as good at multi-tasking and better at single applications.

Well... NDS had 2 CPU's also.

Well those were two different CPUs specifically designed for two different things. this is just two of the same CPU...

two 266MHz ARM11 CPUs

133MHz GPU

4MBs of dedicated VRAM

64MBs of RAM

1.5GBs of flash storage

Can we stop the talk about 3DS being similar to 360/PS3 now?

Put two Zunes over each other and poof! 3DS.

FragTycoon

Rather than compare these specs to 360/ps3 which are constructed to do wildly different things, can we compare the specs to the DS ones?
I'm more interested in how these two compare since we all know what the DS can do and the 3DS will be somewhat similar in functionality?

2 CPUs... It's gonna be tough to convince me that that was a good idea o.O (why not have a better single CPU?)

Blade8Aus

[QUOTE="Blade8Aus"]

2 CPUs... It's gonna be tough to convince me that that was a good idea o.O (why not have a better single CPU?)

meme_peddler

There'd be some weird reason I'm sure... but it wouldn't be for making programming easier. Having two CPUs would in most cases make programming more difficult if developers want to make full use of the 3DS's power.

If someone had said a year ago Nintendo were going to bring out a handheld that has GC power, plus 3D without glasses, we'd all have been happy. Now because of some dodgy articles comparing the 3DS with the 360 / PS3 people are somehow disapointed that it is only going to have roughly GC power??? Talk about unrealistic expectations. Sure it is possible to make handheld that looks like the 360/PS3 - but who wants to pay $400+ for a handheld?

This thing is going to be awesome, has enough power to make beautiful graphics, and it will be affordable enough to fly off the shelves!

Without a pre-order this thing is going to be impossible to buy for months after launch. It will be like the Wii launch x 10!

Then when the hype begins to die down, Nintendo will announce a 3D Pokemon game for it... :o :lol:

I read all this post and suprised how many people expect more and compare it to the Iphone, Ipod.... Look at the game libary and then compare it to the Iphone, Ipod. Thats what im most excited about and not the Specs.Dibdibdobdobo

You're right about the games, but I'm also excited about the autostereoscopic capability. Just adds to the already amazing features the DS had. We're looking at autostereo3D screen, dual screens, touch screen, rumble, tilt, analog stick, DS backwards compatibility, and GC/Wii level gfx with better shaders. Even if it's "only" GC level, imagine gfx like this in 3D...

[QUOTE="flipdc5"]

inb4psp2willhavebetterhardware

dontshackzmii

i am sure sony will put out a 720p 3d hand held

pathetic, it's clear nintendo continues to go the wii route. 64mb ram what are we still in 2005? might have 2 cpu cores but at only 266 it is a joke. The ipod touch 4g has a 1ghz cpu and 512mb ram. imprezawrx500

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/112/1122613p1.html

kinda disappointing when it comes to the gpu . But it has 2 cpus witch is not bad .

gamer620

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]pathetic, it's clear nintendo continues to go the wii route. 64mb ram what are we still in 2005? might have 2 cpu cores but at only 266 it is a joke. The ipod touch 4g has a 1ghz cpu and 512mb ram. Tessellation

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]

with these specs i dont see it being more then 200$ . I think i will hold off on buying it if its 229 or more .

FragTycoon

Probably also trying to keep the battery life figure high. Not much point in creating a powerful handheld console if you can't play it for more than a couple hours before having to recharge.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]pathetic, it's clear nintendo continues to go the wii route. 64mb ram what are we still in 2005? might have 2 cpu cores but at only 266 it is a joke. The ipod touch 4g has a 1ghz cpu and 512mb ram. Tessellation

The older iPod Touch 2G used a single ARM11 @ 532Mhz before being upgraded to the ARM Cortex-A8. There shouldn't be much doubt that the iPhone 3GS/4's CPU outperforms the 3DS's.

pathetic, it's clear nintendo continues to go the wii route.imprezawrx500

Or, you know, the DS route which came first.

I'm sure if your top priority in a handheld is graphical power, the PSP2 will be perfect for you.

Don't just look at the clock speed of the GPU, it's still set to be powerful if you read the article. I just hope like the PSPs CPU cap, Nintendo one day decide to unlock its GPU cap.

What? Then how did Capcom port the NT Framework engine to the 3DS? How does Resident Evil: Revelations look a lot like Resident Evil 5? :o

NINTENDO SAID POWER MATTERS!!! Now Imma not gettin teh 3DS cuz its no powerfu den iPhone 4!

Yeah, I reallly wanted a $300 handheld :|

What? Then how did Capcom port the NT Framework engine to the 3DS? How does Resident Evil: Revelations look a lot like Resident Evil 5? :o

NINTENDO SAID POWER MATTERS!!! Now Imma not gettin teh 3DS cuz its no powerfu den iPhone 4!

Yeah, I reallly wanted a $300 handheld :|

FireEmblem_Man