Europa is our only hope for the future of creative freedom in videogames.
It seems the american male-white guilt hasn't permeated the old continent yet. It has however infused its nonsense into the UK and it's expanding, we can see it in sites like Eurogamer and their casual feminist agenda.
The alternate reality world where every thing is "offensive". Oh wait that is now...what the hell happened to the world in the last few years?
And neogaf... I got banned over there for saying "let artist tell their story, don't censor art".. and to "lighten up" and was "junior culled" for it.... censorship bullcrap. I wasn't really following any of these topics but getting banned there for that prompted me to. They made an enemy that day for sure.
Daniel Vavra of Kingdom come: Deliverance and Denis Dyack went in too due to Polygon complaining about that there weren't any black guys in Witcher 3 or something.
What I find sad is that these guys are standing up for a game that is not even theirs while CDPR are just sitting there and not giving a ****. It'd be funny though if CDPR came out of the woodwork only to defend Gies' right to write that shit.
Are you actually siding with that piece of crap sjw click bait ms whoring Gies? Really. Do you really think every game needs every race, creed, orientation in a game... it's not freakn realistic. It would be like telling a story about native Americans before the Europeans arrived in like 1200ad and expecting Caucasians, Asians, Latinos and Africans to be there just to fill a "race" quota, it's bull crap.
Respect the art that devs make and let them tell their story... stop with this liberal pc agenda bull crap already!
Weird complaint by Gies, but I can see where he's coming from. He has a right to write whatever he wrote in that provisional review.
Eeeh. Freedom of speech (the freedom to say what you want regarding a topic/issue/whatever) doesn't make you "safe" from criticism or consequence.
Also, assuming this counter-argument to Polygon's review is correct (I refuse to give them clicks) it seems Gies literally wrote his typical unfounded and cynical clickbait review. Gies work has been for a long time just that. Which is why I can't understand how some still support him.
Daniel Vavra of Kingdom come: Deliverance and Denis Dyack went in too due to Polygon complaining about that there weren't any black guys in Witcher 3 or something.
What I find sad is that these guys are standing up for a game that is not even theirs while CDPR are just sitting there and not giving a ****. It'd be funny though if CDPR came out of the woodwork only to defend Gies' right to write that shit.
I can see that representation of various types of people is a good thing in gaming at large. But Gies just looks silly taking it to this extreme. Who would complain if there were no foreigners in a samurai game?
Daniel Vavra of Kingdom come: Deliverance and Denis Dyack went in too due to Polygon complaining about that there weren't any black guys in Witcher 3 or something.
What I find sad is that these guys are standing up for a game that is not even theirs while CDPR are just sitting there and not giving a ****. It'd be funny though if CDPR came out of the woodwork only to defend Gies' right to write that shit.
And this, friends, is why you shouldn't really take Gies seriously. Northern/Central Europe was barren of any significative population of foreigners (read: non-white people) for quite some time. Only the odd merchant or entertainer (musician, writer, actor, etc) was found for the most part (there were likely some nomadic populations, but obviously they wouldn't stay put for long).
That obviously changed a lot in recent centuries, but given the apparent Slavic Mythology, era and regions used in the games, it makes sense for non-white people to be as rare as Unicorns. It's a fantasy game yes, but one grounded in reality. Adding non-white people just for the sake of it would make no sense as it would be similar to what some of these folks call "culture appropriation" aka people of different ethnicity adopting a culture that isn't "theirs". (Something that in my mind makes no sense. Cultures have an origin/birth place, yes. They are not however limited by that boundary. They never were. If they were the world wouldn't be the global village it is today. We can argue that many times different cultures are misrepresented in media and the like. That's what needs to be corrected, nothing else.)
Weird complaint by Gies, but I can see where he's coming from. He has a right to write whatever he wrote in that provisional review.
Eeeh. Freedom of speech (the freedom to say what you want regarding a topic/issue/whatever) doesn't make you "safe" from criticism or consequence.
Also, assuming this counter-argument to Polygon's review is correct (I refuse to give them clicks) it seems Gies literally wrote his typical unfounded and cynical clickbait review. Gies work has been for a long time just that. Which is why I can't understand how some still support him.
Yep.Anyway I could see why his complaint is heavily flawed because of the historical context of the game to an extent. I don't care much if the game had certain races in it, but some people may want other races to be in the game like Gies did. The complaint may have worked if he fleshed it out a bit more and explained it in depth, but I don't think he had enough room to do that in the review.
I don't think that complaint was the only reason witcher 3 scored an 8 on polygon anyway
@super600: In the context of the game and its inspirations, it still wouldnt have worked. They would feel like token characters which is honestly pointless IMO. Its as valid as saying more non-asian people should have roles/be present in the Yakuza series just because. Context, even in fiction, is always needed.
The issue doesnt seem to be with the score (I just found that out through you) but more with a poor argument filled with clickbait.
The problem of the Heroes being American and the lesser characters being British seems more problematic than a woman with an slightly open chest top. Shit might as well be Rocky 4.
In fact, remembering correctly, the Witcher 2 had a big, dumb ogre demanding vodka and guess what? It was Russian.
@uninspiredcup: How could it be a russian when it is a factual troll being EMO and drunk after his wife was killed?
I'll repeat it: it's a troll and not an ogre.
Source: Troll Trouble
Terminology is irrelevant. Once again, Americans are the the heroes, British requiring saving, and Russians being portrait as a a large, drunk fool demanding Vodka.
Not a single piece of media remotely criticized this, movies (being a higher form of art) are regularly criticized regardless of quality e.g. Saving Private Ryan...
@uninspiredcup: How could it be a russian when it is a factual troll being EMO and drunk after his wife was killed?
I'll repeat it: it's a troll and not an ogre.
Source: Troll Trouble
Terminology is irrelevant. Once again, Americans are the the heroes, British requiring saving, and Russians being portrait as a a large, drunk fool demanding Vodka.
Not a single piece of media remotely criticized this, movies (being a higher form of art) are regularly criticized regardless of quality e.g. Saving Private Ryan...
When looking at a movie series such as Lord Of The Rings, everyone is British, with no random Americans thrown in. Aside from making logical sense, it creates unification.
Even Conan, with Arnie's weird ass accent, make logical sense.
So basically if I drink vodka, I'm automatically a Russian? Seems legit.
Polygon and Loltaku are trash... Gone Home was Polygon's GOTY and we all know why. TBH, most game journalists including the ones on Gamespot are all SJW. The only difference is Lolygon is shittier.
@uninspiredcup: How could it be a russian when it is a factual troll being EMO and drunk after his wife was killed?
I'll repeat it: it's a troll and not an ogre.
Source: Troll Trouble
Terminology is irrelevant. Once again, Americans are the the heroes, British requiring saving, and Russians being portrait as a a large, drunk fool demanding Vodka.
Not a single piece of media remotely criticized this, movies (being a higher form of art) are regularly criticized regardless of quality e.g. Saving Private Ryan...
When looking at a movie series such as Lord Of The Rings, everyone is British, with no random Americans thrown in. Aside from making logical sense, it creates unification.
Even Conan, with Arnie's weird ass accent, make logical sense.
So basically if I drink vodka, I'm automatically a Russian? Seems legit.
According to the Witcher, that is indeed how it works.
The polygon reviewer is obviously an idiot and a loser, but the idiots in here complaining about dumb ass shit like characters not having British accents sound just as moronic.
Arthur Gies is terrible but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this type of discussion in the context of video games. If anything it should be encouraged to discuss video games from different angles due to how insular and all around bad the video game community is, an example being GamerGate. Even the OP who un-ironically used the term "SJW" - he clearly doesn't want to have an honest discussion about the social context of video games otherwise he wouldn't have poisoned the well from the very first post. A lot of members of the community shun dissenting opinions and viewpoints and IMO that's far worse than any shitty Arthur Gies article.
Yes, if this thread didn't open in such a shitty matter, then I might have actually took it seriously for some kind of discussion. I'm not hear to argue with people who use the term "SJW" in a serious matter. Those people are so deep down the gamergate or anti-feminist hole, trying to debate with them would be like talking to a brick wall. A lot of these issues aren't just one sided, they're completely open for intelligent discussion from everybody.
@Pray_to_me: to be fair it's only one person in here acting that way. I will give you a hint, it's the one who has 4 already accounts and does nothing but troll... he also likes cups.
Daniel Vavra of Kingdom come: Deliverance and Denis Dyack went in too due to Polygon complaining about that there weren't any black guys in Witcher 3 or something.
What I find sad is that these guys are standing up for a game that is not even theirs while CDPR are just sitting there and not giving a ****. It'd be funny though if CDPR came out of the woodwork only to defend Gies' right to write that shit.
If we're talking post medieval/more or less 13-1400s or something, I'm pretty certain there HAD to be other races in these areas, be it due to slavery or otherwise... Gies is dumb but arguing against him with dumb shit might make him look right.
@JangoWuzHere: one sided? Not likely... this place is probably the best place to discuss this unlike neocensorgaf, you can actually express your opinion without being banned if you disagree with the sjw agenda. That site is as one sided as you get a hive mind for anita worshiping censor freaks.
@JangoWuzHere: one sided? Not likely... this place is probably the best place to discuss this unlike neocensorgaf, you can actually express your opinion without being banned if you disagree with the sjw agenda. That site is as one sided as you get a hive mind for anita worshiping censor freaks.
I'm not going to bother debating with someone that uses that kind of language, it's a complete waste of time. I don't see much being discussed in this thread, so I don't understand how it's the "best place".
Daniel Vavra of Kingdom come: Deliverance and Denis Dyack went in too due to Polygon complaining about that there weren't any black guys in Witcher 3 or something.
What I find sad is that these guys are standing up for a game that is not even theirs while CDPR are just sitting there and not giving a ****. It'd be funny though if CDPR came out of the woodwork only to defend Gies' right to write that shit.
If we're talking post medieval/more or less 13-1400s or something, I'm pretty certain there HAD to be other races in these areas, be it due to slavery or otherwise... Gies is dumb but arguing against him with dumb shit might make him look right.
Slavery? In the 13-1400's in northern Europe slavery was pretty much non-existent. There was neither the need nor access to large slaving populations and was really only prevalent in the Islamic world. Seeing someone of colour outside of a few trading ports (and even then would have been spectacularly rare) would have been next to impossible and trading inland would have been absolutely pointless. Remember at this time in history, unless you were with a campaigning army, most people never left the immediate area in which they were born.
EDIT this is the same period as Marco Polo, who's travels, even for the great trading city of Venice, were ridiculed and amazed in equal portion and he just traveled along the silk routes which were major hubs. People dumped goods at a close city rather than navigate the entire route.
@JangoWuzHere: I say those words ease it's my experience there. People were complaining about how blank game should be censored and I commented that "censorship in all art is wrong. Let artist express there expressions and tell the stories they want to tell." And got met with a few hostile comments and bam banned for no reason mentioned. .. except for the fact that I wasn't toeing the ultra politically correct rehotoric they were spewing.
Most people over there aren't willing to hear an opposing view, it's why they ban anyone with a different opinion. It's frankly sickening and is nothing I would expect in a world with freedom of speech.
So yeah if I claim Gaf has an agenda and say terms like that it's because that site has made me look at them that way (not simple game discussions but anything that promotes censoring of art I am totally against)
Back in the day it was republican jack Thompson now we have some so called gamers that are for censoring? (Although I believe some are just following the crowd)
If we're talking post medieval/more or less 13-1400s or something, I'm pretty certain there HAD to be other races in these areas, be it due to slavery or otherwise... Gies is dumb but arguing against him with dumb shit might make him look right.
That's holds true for Southern Europe, not really for Northern/Central Europe. I mean, talking about slavery based on skin colour. The ancient trade routes were mostly Mediterranean, and that's where most of the European contacts with different ethnicities pre-Discoveries period were made (despite having knowledge of their existence, the Portuguese were still initially "shocked" when making contact with the many black tribes in Africa).
Slavery in general can be a different story. Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire (for example) made slaves out of anyone not born under/ruled by a specific city state or the Empire, regardless of skin colour or gender.
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