And some people thought Deus Ex:HR was going to be "consolized"

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

Name me one console game with deep and complexgameplay?

loadedboon

Baten Kaitos 1 and 2

The World Ends With You

Bad Company 2 (I play it on PC though)

Metal Gear Solid 4 (a lot of choices of sneaking, going rambo, tons of guns...sound like anything else?)

LBP (the level of customization in this game is mind blowing)

GT5

Do I need to name more?

Yes because all the games you mentioned are neither deep or complex

I SERIOUSLY doubt you have even played all the games in my list. Why do I even bother?

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Baten Kaitos 1 and 2

The World Ends With You

Bad Company 2 (I play it on PC though)

Metal Gear Solid 4 (a lot of choices of sneaking, going rambo, tons of guns...sound like anything else?)

LBP (the level of customization in this game is mind blowing)

GT5

Do I need to name more?

NaveedLife

Yes because all the games you mentioned are neither deep or complex

I SERIOUSLY doubt you have even played all the games in my list. Why do I even bother?

Really now?

do you want my PSN Tag and STEAM ID?

those games simply just aren't deep or comples just because you think they are doesn't make it so.

[QUOTE="Luxen90"][QUOTE="Yangire"]

Regenerating health, instakill melee attacks, popamole gameplay, and level scaling. I bet I could think of more if I was actually following this game.

I also heard the levels are more linear, but I don't care enough to look for a source.

AiurProtoss

example

So first you say the game isn't dumbed down and now you say it is?

make up your mind

Yes because all the games you mentioned are neither deep or complex

loadedboon

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

Yes because all the games you mentioned are neither deep or complex

loadedboon

I SERIOUSLY doubt you have even played all the games in my list. Why do I even bother?

Really now?

do you want my PSN Tag and STEAM ID?

those games simply just aren't deep or comples just because you think they are doesn't make it so.

Well technically 3 of the games are not on PC and PS3 :P. What games do you consider complex and deep?

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

Yes because all the games you mentioned are neither deep or complex

Luxen90

That one I will also give you. Seems like I have gotten 2 deep and compex games on consoles till now.

So I will admit it has a few but definetaly not alot.

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I SERIOUSLY doubt you have even played all the games in my list. Why do I even bother?

NaveedLife

Really now?

do you want my PSN Tag and STEAM ID?

those games simply just aren't deep or comples just because you think they are doesn't make it so.

Well technically 2 of the games are not on PC and PS3 :P. What games do you consider complex and deep?

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I SERIOUSLY doubt you have even played all the games in my list. Why do I even bother?

NaveedLife

Really now?

do you want my PSN Tag and STEAM ID?

those games simply just aren't deep or comples just because you think they are doesn't make it so.

Well technically 2 of the games are not on PC and PS3 :P. What games do you consider complex and deep?

X3, flight sims, company of heroes, dawn of war series (except the 2nd one), Master Of Orion series, Jagged Alliance series, Dues Ex 1, Total War series, Eschalon Book 1 and 2, Gothic 1-3 and alot of the older PC games during the glory days known as DOS.

So what makes this not consolized?

Yangire

Because none is giving the guy a deep/complex console game I'll chip in..

Nobunaga's Ambition (series)

The pictures shown are of Nobunaga no Yabou: Tendou for the Xbox 360, PS3, and PC.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

Really now?

do you want my PSN Tag and STEAM ID?

those games simply just aren't deep or comples just because you think they are doesn't make it so.

loadedboon

Well technically 2 of the games are not on PC and PS3 :P. What games do you consider complex and deep?

X3, flight sims, company of heroes, dawn of war series (except the 2nd one), Master Of Orion series, Jagged Alliance series, Dues Ex 1, Total War series, Eschalon Book 1 and 2, Gothic 1-3 and alot of the older PC games during the glory days known as DOS.

I have not played many of those I will be honest. Seen clips of a few and most did not impress me. I have never been a big fan of RTS games nor Strategy RPG (Disgaea). Sure SRPG's SEEM more complex than turn based, but they are only more complex in SOME ways. Baten Kaitos has TONS of cards you can collect and (no it doesnt play like a card game) mix them in peoples (multipl chars) decks however you want. The customization is almost endless in this sense and it is extremely fun. BTW I love Diablo II and got reccomended Eschalon and well...it plays like you are moving an RTS unit rather than you are controlling that character precisely like in Diablo. IDK I just couldnt get into it from the moment I turned it on. It feels SO archaic.

Because none is giving the guy a deep/complex console game I'll chip in..

Nobunaga's Ambition (series)

The pictures shown are of Nobunaga no Yabou: Tendou for the Xbox 360, PS3, and PC.

Yangire

Hmmm,but isn´t that a game made with the PC in mind?

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

Because none is giving the guy a deep/complex console game I'll chip in..

Nobunaga's Ambition (series)

The pictures shown are of Nobunaga no Yabou: Tendou for the Xbox 360, PS3, and PC.

Arach666

Hmmm,but isn´t that a game made with the PC in mind?

Nope, the original games were console only and it was ported to the PC.

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Well technically 2 of the games are not on PC and PS3 :P. What games do you consider complex and deep?

NaveedLife

X3, flight sims, company of heroes, dawn of war series (except the 2nd one), Master Of Orion series, Jagged Alliance series, Dues Ex 1, Total War series, Eschalon Book 1 and 2, Gothic 1-3 and alot of the older PC games during the glory days known as DOS.

I have not played many of those I will be honest. Seen clips of a few and most did not impress me. I have never been a big fan of RTS games nor Strategy RPG (Disgaea). Sure SRPG's SEEM more complex than turn based, but they are only more complex in SOME ways. Baten Kaitos has TONS of cards you can collect and (no it doesnt play like a card game) mix them in peoples (multipl chars) decks however you want. The customization is almost endless in this sense and it is extremely fun. BTW I love Diablo II and got reccomended Eschalon and well...it plays like you are moving an RTS unit rather than you are controlling that character precisely like in Diablo. IDK I just couldnt get into it from the moment I turned it on. It feels SO archaic.

I respect that point of view but a word of advice the eschalone games are nothing like Diablo. They are recent old school isometric rpg's

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

Because none is giving the guy a deep/complex console game I'll chip in..

Nobunaga's Ambition (series)

The pictures shown are of Nobunaga no Yabou: Tendou for the Xbox 360, PS3, and PC.

Yangire

Hmmm,but isn´t that a game made with the PC in mind?

Nope, the original games were console only and it was ported to the PC.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

So what makes this not consolized?

Yangire

Better question.. what makes it consolized?

Looks just as diverse as the original.

Regenerating health, instakill melee attacks, popamole gameplay, and level scaling. I bet I could think of more if I was actually following this game.

I also heard the levels are more linear, but I don't care enough to look for a source.

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

Hmmm,but isn´t that a game made with the PC in mind?

Arach666

Nope, the original games were console only and it was ported to the PC.

Anyways I suggest the series, as stated it's deep, complex, and the like but it's very slow paced.

I recommend the newest localized games for the PS2:

Rise to Power

and the Iron Triangle

(only good screenshots I could find were PC and Japanese)

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="Yangire"]

Nope, the original games were console only and it was ported to the PC.

Yangire

Anyways I suggest the series, as stated it's deep, complex, and the like but it's very slow paced.

I recommend the newest localized games for the PS2:

Rise to Power

and the Iron Triangle

(only good screenshots I could find were PC and Japanese)

If they´re only localised on the PS2 then no way,I hate playing any stategy game whetsoever on a console. The PC version isn´t in english,right?

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"] Ah ok,I was just asking because those shots look make it look more of a PC game(at least,those shots seem to be from the PC version).Arach666

Anyways I suggest the series, as stated it's deep, complex, and the like but it's very slow paced.

I recommend the newest localized games for the PS2:

Rise to Power

and the Iron Triangle

(only good screenshots I could find were PC and Japanese)

If they´re only localised on the PS2 then no way,I hate playing any stategy game whetsoever on a console. The PC version isn´t in english,right?

Well they are TBS, but if you can't find it in yourself to play it on a console I suggest the RotTK series, it's very similar and it has PC versions.

Hey yangire, have you played bladestorm? Also would you recommend those nobunaga games over Romance of the 3 kingdoms and Kessen?Luxen90

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

Anyways I suggest the series, as stated it's deep, complex, and the like but it's very slow paced.

I recommend the newest localized games for the PS2:

Rise to Power

and the Iron Triangle

(only good screenshots I could find were PC and Japanese)

Yangire

If they´re only localised on the PS2 then no way,I hate playing any stategy game whetsoever on a console. The PC version isn´t in english,right?

Well they are TBS, but if you can't find it in yourself to play it on a console I suggest the RotTK series, it's very similar and it has PC versions.

Hey yangire, have you played bladestorm? Also would you recommend those nobunaga games over Romance of the 3 kingdoms and Kessen?Luxen90

Yeah I own Bladestorm, I enjoy the game though I do think the combat could be improved (R1 is the only way to use non-charged attacks) here is a informative review of the game that might help you. As I said in my previous post Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of the Three Kingdoms are very similar series (kinda like Dynasty Warriors and Samuari Warriors), I look into one game in both series and see if you like it rather than debating what series to get into. As for Kessen the game is more comparable to Bladestorm gameplay wise rather than Nobunaga and Three Kingdoms, I say pick up three or two before buying Bladestorm and see if you like it (they are regarded as better and they are cheaper).

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

Really now?

do you want my PSN Tag and STEAM ID?

those games simply just aren't deep or comples just because you think they are doesn't make it so.

loadedboon

Well technically 2 of the games are not on PC and PS3 :P. What games do you consider complex and deep?

X3, flight sims, company of heroes, dawn of war series (except the 2nd one), Master Of Orion series, Jagged Alliance series, Dues Ex 1, Total War series, Eschalon Book 1 and 2, Gothic 1-3 and alot of the older PC games during the glory days known as DOS.

I love the Gothic series, but it's about as deep as many console games that were listed in this thread, also, the master of orion "series" isn't deep at all

Master of Orion 2 is incredibly deep and one of the greatest strategy games of all time, but the first one is pretty shallow and simple and the third is just broken

yes games should never be made more simple so only hard core gamers can play it .

yes games should never be made more simple so only hard core gamers can play it .

dontshackzmii

would you like it if nintendo suddenly canceled all mario platformer games so they could only focus on mario spin-offs now and forever?

What determines whether a game has become consolized or not? I hear people talking about the games being dumbed down but i need some examples to see for myself

RyanShazam

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

The only thing you did is prove that it is butchered with dumbing down for the consoles. This game has nothing on the original Deus Ex if anything it is the bastard child of the series.

GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

Now, i consider Deus Ex to be one of THE greatest games of all times, i always have the game on my HDD, playing it from time to time, using various mods.

But don't be quick to judge Deus Ex: HR, very foolish thing to do, since you haven't played it, neither is it released yet so we could dwelve a bit into its features, which i doubt we have a basic understanding at this point.. Wait, a little longer.

Like I said it is made with consoles in mind so I don't need to wait to know how the game will turn out.

Yeah consoles never have deep gameplay or anything good on them :roll:.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

Like I said it is made with consoles in mind so I don't need to wait to know how the game will turn out.

savagetwinkie

Yeah consoles never have deep gameplay or anything good on them :roll:.

....You know I was defending consoles right? Maybe I misunderstood you haha. I love depth in games and customization and such, but I think some people on this thread take it too far. Most of my favorite games are on console, so I dont think games being "consolized" on PC makes any sense really. I agree about tedious elements and such. I was worried about Diablo III and some of the stuff they are changing and taking out, but now I realize its all for the better. A lot of the stuff was broken and needs fixing, which some see as "streamling" or "consolization".

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Yeah consoles never have deep gameplay or anything good on them :roll:.

....You know I was defending consoles right? Maybe I misunderstood you haha. I love depth in games and customization and such, but I think some people on this thread take it too far. Most of my favorite games are on console, so I dont think games being "consolized" on PC makes any sense really. I agree about tedious elements and such. I was worried about Diablo III and some of the stuff they are changing and taking out, but now I realize its all for the better. A lot of the stuff was broken and needs fixing, which some see as "streamling" or "consolization".

Whats the offical defenition of deep and complex gameplay? I see people throw those words around,but seem to only pick out games they personaly think is deep and complex. I want a factual defenition of the terms. Or is it just person to person kind of thing.

Hmm... I'm not liking the quick time events. Can anyone confirm if these are ingame? Or have they done that just for this trailer?

Outside of that it looks good to me. Just as long as they give the player multiple options to advance through a level and also tied with your ability to permanently change the story, then I''ll be more than satisfied. In fact they can make numerous advancements with this game, especially on Stealth in comparison to the other games in the series. Just give us an actual decent AI in a Deus Ex game and the Stealth will actually feel like it's worth for something outside of escaping bots.

Regenerating health, instakill melee attacks, popamole gameplay, and level scaling. I bet I could think of more if I was actually following this game.

I also heard the levels are more linear, but I don't care enough to look for a source.

Yangire

To be fair the original Deus Ex had the first two.

Anyway, here we go with the consolization business...

It IS consolized. Going up to someone and being able to push 1 button to kill them is the very definition of consolized.

It still looks amazing though, and is one of my most anticipated games for next year, but the complexity has been toned down from DX1, which I still recommend to anybody, esp as everybody can pretty much run it on their PC's.

It IS consolized. Going up to someone and being able to push 1 button to kill them is the very definition of consolized.

FGMPR

You could do that in the first Deus Ex :?. Hell, I'm not even touching Invisible War here.

[QUOTE="Yangire"]

Regenerating health, instakill melee attacks, popamole gameplay, and level scaling. I bet I could think of more if I was actually following this game.

I also heard the levels are more linear, but I don't care enough to look for a source.

StealthSting

To be fair the original Deus Ex had the first two.

Not really. Instakill melee attacks probably refer to the QTE's. Regenerating health wasn't there by default occuring magically, you could achieve it with a price.

Anyway I think some people here are just making wild guesses with the stuff they have showed, if the game ends up being the way these people say would probably be pure coincidental luck. They have just showed a few videos of "gameplay", trying to be cool for promotional purposes, rather than actual gameplay.

I don't know why but this gameplay vid reminded me of mixture of good old fashioned Goldeneye 007 and Metal Gear Solid, I liked what I saw.

This game keeps getting better and better with each new footage.

And this is really what "consolization" is, removal of tedious and clunky systems that every one claims is "dumbing" down the game. savagetwinkie

However to claim it's just a removal of "clunky and tedious systems" is a joke. By writing this you are just reinforcing stereotype of console games as people who have problem handling anything deeper than the next brainless button masher.

Not really. instakill melee attacks porbably refer to the QTE's. Regenerating health wasn't there by default occuring magically, you could achieve it with a price.

Anyway I think some people here are just making wild guesses with the stuff they have showed, if the game ends up being the way these people say would probably be pure coincidental luck. Just few videos of "gameplay" trying to be cool for promotional purposes than actual gameplay.

glez13

So what's the difference? I'm not liking the QTE's, but you could pull out an instant kill in the first Deus Ex with a hand weapon--that's a fact.

I'll give you regenerating health, but it was still there, so my point still stands. We can't talk much about anything we've been shown thus far, unless you guys can tell me at what point in time in the game is this gameplay happening?

However to claim it's just a removal of "clunky and tedious systems" is a joke. By writing this you are just reinforcing stereotype of console games as people who have problem handling anything deeper than the next brainless button masher.AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="glez13"]

Not really. instakill melee attacks porbably refer to the QTE's. Regenerating health wasn't there by default occuring magically, you could achieve it with a price.

Anyway I think some people here are just making wild guesses with the stuff they have showed, if the game ends up being the way these people say would probably be pure coincidental luck. Just few videos of "gameplay" trying to be cool for promotional purposes than actual gameplay.

StealthSting

So what's the difference? I'm not liking the QTE's, but you could pull out an instant kill in the first Deus Ex with a hand weapon--that's a fact.

I'll give you regenerating health, but it was still there, so my point still stands. We can't talk much about anything we've been shown thus far, unless you guys can tell me at what point in time in the game is this gameplay happening?

Yes but in the first Deus Ex you had to do it yourself, you had to sneak behind and get into arm reach them aim to the head area(I believe higher back was also valid, not sure) and press the button. In these QTE you just kinda sneak close and push a button, the game does the rest for you.

[QUOTE="StealthSting"]

[QUOTE="glez13"]

Not really. instakill melee attacks porbably refer to the QTE's. Regenerating health wasn't there by default occuring magically, you could achieve it with a price.

Anyway I think some people here are just making wild guesses with the stuff they have showed, if the game ends up being the way these people say would probably be pure coincidental luck. Just few videos of "gameplay" trying to be cool for promotional purposes than actual gameplay.

glez13

So what's the difference? I'm not liking the QTE's, but you could pull out an instant kill in the first Deus Ex with a hand weapon--that's a fact.

I'll give you regenerating health, but it was still there, so my point still stands. We can't talk much about anything we've been shown thus far, unless you guys can tell me at what point in time in the game is this gameplay happening?

Yes but in the first Deus Ex you had to do it yourself, you had to sneak behind and get into arm reach them aim to the head area(I believe higher back was also valid, not sure) and press the button. In these QTE you just kinda sneak close and push a button, the game does the rest for you.

Lol that doesnt sound too different to me. The only difference is in one you have to aim at their head....I personally dont have much of a problem aiming at someones head ;).

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

looks like it has the art style of fear

NaveedLife

Really? It reminds me of Perfect Dark 64 :).

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

looks like it has the art style of fear

mouthforbathory

Really? It reminds me of Perfect Dark 64 :).

[QUOTE="mouthforbathory"][QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Really? It reminds me of Perfect Dark 64 :).

110million

yeah this too no doubt. But loving MGS and PD both are a good thing hahah.

Haven't played Deus Ex, so I can't really comment on the "consolization" aspect of this game, but that trailer was awesome. Don't confuse "consolization" with streamlining.

Consolized has to be one of the most overused terms in this forum, and it's probably the dumbest one. You can't confine simple and complex to a certain piece of hardware.