And some people thought Deus Ex:HR was going to be "consolized"

Well, it seems like a step up from DE2 but still not a big step enough to even challange the original, with that said I am still sure it will be a decent game, just not as good as Deus Ex.

oh, ok, like I said, I only played blue, so I have no idea how the series has evolved since then

ohthemanatee

Competetively, the series has evolved a lot. In fact I dont remember Pokemon having a that big of a competitive scene until Ruby/Sapphire. But here is a video of how badly one can get destroyed if you dont know what you are doing. While it may be nowhere near as deep as Starcraft of anything like that it is still pretty deep.

Same thing, different perspective. The big thing is more intuitive interface while trying to cram everything onto a controller, but that doesn't mean the game is any less deep because they attempted to make actions more accessible. There is definitly a balance between deep and complex that no one seems to ever acknowledge that really needs to be there. Take regening health, well the mechanic on the PC that does the same thing happens ot be quick save... well now you don't have to press a button every time you get to a new point or reload a game everytime you make a mistake. One example is x3, there is no balance, everything about the game is complex, clunky, unintuitive, but because there is so much there everyone always says it has deep gameplay elements. Once you get around the interface its a fairly simple game its just a grind to get to the top. Games like plants vs zombies is a fairly simple game but its actually got pretty good depth. Its also different things that people appreciate, I think fable 2 while simple also has a pretty deep gameplay, but most people ingore 90% of what makes it fun because it isn't a tangeble reward you can use to hit someone with or use to buy something to hit someone with. complexity doesn't equate to deep and deep gameplay doesn't really equate to complexity. Consolization doesn't really mean less deep gameplay, it means a more intuitive experience with less systems that just aren't needed anymore.savagetwinkie

But isn't quick save completely different than regen health? One is a feature in the game that serves a completely different purpose that is saving whenever you want and prevent situations where you start playing do something important/hard and need to leave for some reason. If it gets abused in the way you described is a different story. You can use it or not as you described. Regen health is a feature that is obligatory in the game in this context and the game is made around it. Good luck using it or not in a game like quick save, you should be either kinda good and playing on easy or a legendary master to not use it.

I have seen some others posting the same about both in this thread, but I'm not sure about it.:?

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] Same thing, different perspective. The big thing is more intuitive interface while trying to cram everything onto a controller, but that doesn't mean the game is any less deep because they attempted to make actions more accessible. There is definitly a balance between deep and complex that no one seems to ever acknowledge that really needs to be there. Take regening health, well the mechanic on the PC that does the same thing happens ot be quick save... well now you don't have to press a button every time you get to a new point or reload a game everytime you make a mistake. One example is x3, there is no balance, everything about the game is complex, clunky, unintuitive, but because there is so much there everyone always says it has deep gameplay elements. Once you get around the interface its a fairly simple game its just a grind to get to the top. Games like plants vs zombies is a fairly simple game but its actually got pretty good depth. Its also different things that people appreciate, I think fable 2 while simple also has a pretty deep gameplay, but most people ingore 90% of what makes it fun because it isn't a tangeble reward you can use to hit someone with or use to buy something to hit someone with. complexity doesn't equate to deep and deep gameplay doesn't really equate to complexity. Consolization doesn't really mean less deep gameplay, it means a more intuitive experience with less systems that just aren't needed anymore.glez13

But isn't quick save completely different than regen health? One is a feature in the game that serves a completely different purpose that is saving whenever you want and prevent situations where you start playing do something important/hard and need to leave for some reason. If it gets abused in the way you described is a different story. You can use it or not as you described. Regen health is a feature that is obligatory in the game in this context and the game is made around it. Good luck using it or not in a game like quick save, you should be either kinda good and playing on easy or a legendary master to not use it.

I have seen some others posting the same about both in this thread, but I'm not sure about it.:?

basically you make check points any where you feel like in a game,

quicksave is for saving on the fly while your playing, saving it is intended for leaving, but they have a quick save, and quick load, so its easy to, save, try something, fail, revert. It essentially actually makes games easier then regening health because you also get your ammo back each time you do something stupid.

basically you make check points any where you feel like in a game,

savagetwinkie

But at the same time, any enemies you kill are back again, and if you quick saved in a tight spot, you are still in that spot. And quicksaves were not meant to be abused like that. If a game has a quicksave I am not forced to use the quicksave function, while if a game has regeneration the regeneration will be forced on me.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

quicksave is for saving on the fly while your playing, saving it is intended for leaving, but they have a quick save, and quick load, so its easy to, save, try something, fail, revert. It essentially actually makes games easier then regening health because you also get your ammo back each time you do something stupid.

basically you make check points any where you feel like in a game,

But at the same time, any enemies you kill are back again, and if you quick saved in a tight spot, you are still in that spot. And quicksaves were not meant to be abused like that. If a game has a quicksave I am not forced to use the quicksave function, while if a game has regeneration the regeneration will be forced on me.

Regening health is a feature to make up for the lack of a quick save button on consoles, otherwised you'd have to constantly pause, save the game, and continue, if you messed up, it was a lot easier to get screwed while on PC if you see a sticky situation, you press a button, make an attempt, if you don't like how good you did you just revert it. Plus if you fail to do something, the enemies are likely to still be there on either game, except one you didn't revert back to a point where you had more ammo. That is exactly what quick save is intended for, you just don't have to worry about constantly saving so you can't mess up to the point where you can't continue you have a way out. That is really the biggest difference between regening health and a quick save feature. They are designed to do pretty much the same thing, to encourage experimenting in a game.savagetwinkie

Yes but still quick save is a option that serves for another purpose and that might be used as you described. Regen health is not an equivalent of quick save in any way. It is obligatory in the context being discussed and it is more a way to keep the game action oriented and in the same time helping to limit backtracking. I seriously don't see how one is the equivalent of other.

Also what self respecting gamer would do something quicksave, do another thing- fail-reload, do it again-success-quicksave, and so on? That totally destroys the purpose of any game.

Regenerating health is used so much in pc-games today too, so don't come with this "bu bu bu dumbed down for consoles" because Deus Ex 3 has it too.

Some people always like to complain.

AHHHH it's just the same as the previous one.AHHHH It's nothing like the previous one.

I can't wait for this game. It's NR1 on my DO-WANT-list.

Regenerating health is used so much in pc-games today too, so don't come with this "bu bu bu dumbed down for consoles" because Deus Ex 3 has it too.

Cyberfairy

It looks... epic. Definitely buying that. It looks exactly like the sort of game I have been wanting this gen.

Regenerating health is used so much in pc-games today too, so don't come with this "bu bu bu dumbed down for consoles" because Deus Ex 3 has it too.

Cyberfairy

Well you know, you accomplished some hard feat, like conquering every nation, or figuring out some extremely creative way to progress, I don't know. Most games i play on my console are linear and cinematic and don't really allow me to think for myself. You either go on the way it's intended for you...or you simply don't go anywhere.GeneralShowzer

I get what you say but still... you can't blame them. They've streamlined games so that you get right to the chase. This is a boon especially for people hard pressed for time.

Well, it seems like a step up from DE2 but still not a big step enough to even challange the original, with that said I am still sure it will be a decent game, just not as good as Deus Ex.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

oh, ok, like I said, I only played blue, so I have no idea how the series has evolved since then

Maroxad

Competetively, the series has evolved a lot. In fact I dont remember Pokemon having a that big of a competitive scene until Ruby/Sapphire. But here is a video of how badly one can get destroyed if you dont know what you are doing. While it may be nowhere near as deep as Starcraft of anything like that it is still pretty deep.

That's a perfect example of what I said :) Thank you for the link. The video was awesome!

I remember in Ruby or Sapphire (can't remember), I had trouble with the 7th gym leader (twins actually) so I used my Blaziken and Wobbuffet. Lunatone and Solrock shifted their attention first on Blaziken and then I had Wobbuffet use Destiny Bond. 2nd turn, Wobbuffet gets knocked out and I win the battle by taking both Pokemon out (Destiny Bond takes down the Pokemon who knocks the user of Destiny Bond out. In a double battle, both members go down together) :D

It was really awesome. I wish I could go back and explore the games further :)

[QUOTE="Cyberfairy"]

Regenerating health is used so much in pc-games today too, so don't come with this "bu bu bu dumbed down for consoles" because Deus Ex 3 has it too.

FGMPR

Deus Ex for PS2 was just a simple port though, not made from the ground up for consoles.

[QUOTE="FGMPR"][QUOTE="Cyberfairy"]

Regenerating health is used so much in pc-games today too, so don't come with this "bu bu bu dumbed down for consoles" because Deus Ex 3 has it too.

Supabul

These mechanics: Regeneration, cover based shooting, removal of interactivity (one button instant kills) dont necessarily have to be because of just because of consoles (although they may be a part of it). For instance removal of interactivity seems to be because of the cinematic experience they are trying to achieve. And while regeneration may be more of a commonplace on consoles, they may have included it just be here because everyone else has it. Cover based shooting however, is pretty much a console thing (PC games tend to use the much superior lean and peak). Why cant more developers do what Bioware did with Dragon Age: Origins?

That's a perfect example of what I said :) Thank you for the link. The video was awesome!

I remember in Ruby or Sapphire (can't remember), I had trouble with the 7th gym leader (twins actually) so I used my Blaziken and Wobbuffet. Lunatone and Solrock shifted their attention first on Blaziken and then I had Wobbuffet use Destiny Bond. 2nd turn, Wobbuffet gets knocked out and I win the battle by taking both Pokemon out (Destiny Bond takes down the Pokemon who knocks the user of Destiny Bond out. In a double battle, both members go down together) :D

It was really awesome. I wish I could go back and explore the games further :)

fend_oblivion

Hahaha, nice, didnt know destiny bond took out both. You should visit smogon university (website not a real university), as it is dedicated entirely to the deeper, more competitive gameplay elements found in the pokemon games. That website will help you explore various tactics on what you can do.

Hahaha, nice, didnt know destiny bond took out both. You should visit smogon university (website not a real university), as it is dedicated entirely to the deeper, more competitive gameplay elements found in the pokemon games. That website will help you explore various tactics on what you can do.

Maroxad

Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it :)

I think they tweaked Destiny Bond in the newer games so it only knocks out one Pokemon to prevent it from being a game breaking move similar to how they tweaked Psychic Pokemon after Red/Blue/Yellow.