Are you expecting a significant graphical leap with next-gen consoles?

You guys are too pessimistic on these boards or maybe you are all pc elitest who can't stand the thought of a powerful games console. Every generation there has been a leap in visuals and next gen will be no different. As much as you say consoles are becoming casual there still needs to be a technical leap seen by them to think its a true next gen system. And if the rumored specs for Xbox loop/infinity are real then it won't be weak at all. A hex core CPU @3.8ghz, duel state of the art AMD gpu, 2 gigs of DDR3(I suspect that's system ram but there should be another 2gigs of fast DDR5 or XDR2. Add that together with good size HDD, high storage optical disc, and enhanced kinect 2.0 all in a closed environment that will be easy to dev for and it will hold its own for years against pc.GotNugz

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]You guys are too pessimistic on these boards or maybe you are all pc elitest who can't stand the thought of a powerful games console. Every generation there has been a leap in visuals and next gen will be no different. As much as you say consoles are becoming casual there still needs to be a technical leap seen by them to think its a true next gen system. And if the rumored specs for Xbox loop/infinity are real then it won't be weak at all. A hex core CPU @3.8ghz, duel state of the art AMD gpu, 2 gigs of DDR3(I suspect that's system ram but there should be another 2gigs of fast DDR5 or XDR2. Add that together with good size HDD, high storage optical disc, and enhanced kinect 2.0 all in a closed environment that will be easy to dev for and it will hold its own for years against pc.RyviusARC

No, I doubt it.

Though with the Wii to the Wii U. Oh yeah, sure, Its going to be a larger leap than the graphical leap made from xbox to xbox 360 :P

You guys are too pessimistic on these boards or maybe you are all pc elitest who can't stand the thought of a powerful games console. Every generation there has been a leap in visuals and next gen will be no different. As much as you say consoles are becoming casual there still needs to be a technical leap seen by them to think its a true next gen system. And if the rumored specs for Xbox loop/infinity are real then it won't be weak at all. A hex core CPU @3.8ghz, duel state of the art AMD gpu, 2 gigs of DDR3(I suspect that's system ram but there should be another 2gigs of fast DDR5 or XDR2. Add that together with good size HDD, high storage optical disc, and enhanced kinect 2.0 all in a closed environment that will be easy to dev for and it will hold its own for years against pc.GotNugz

You're expecting 16 core cpu's to be in the next gen consoles?. Ahahahaha no just no. Though I do think you're right in expecting a decent amount of RAM and a decent video card in the mix.

Theres no doubt the next gen of consoles will have some beef behind them but expecting 16 cores is a dream.

I think for the hardware and price, probably looking at a small jump (maybe the great looking games of 2-3 years ago on the pc), with more focus on high framerates.

Even with the best optimization, making a game look as good as current PC titles playing at the same framerate would be expensive and hot, both things consoles should NOT be.

If there wasn't, there wouldn't be a need for next gen consoles, would there? :idea:

A hex core CPU @3.8ghzGotNugz

A hex core cpu alone is more than half the price of consoles now, and the amount/type of cooling needed to run at 3.8ghz won't be reasonable on a console. Not to mention a good gpu to compilment the cpu...

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]You guys are too pessimistic on these boards or maybe you are all pc elitest who can't stand the thought of a powerful games console. Every generation there has been a leap in visuals and next gen will be no different. As much as you say consoles are becoming casual there still needs to be a technical leap seen by them to think its a true next gen system. And if the rumored specs for Xbox loop/infinity are real then it won't be weak at all. A hex core CPU @3.8ghz, duel state of the art AMD gpu, 2 gigs of DDR3(I suspect that's system ram but there should be another 2gigs of fast DDR5 or XDR2. Add that together with good size HDD, high storage optical disc, and enhanced kinect 2.0 all in a closed environment that will be easy to dev for and it will hold its own for years against pc.Ocid1

You're expecting 16 core cpu's to be in the next gen consoles?. Ahahahaha no just no. Though I do think you're right in expecting a decent amount of RAM and a decent video card in the mix.

Theres no doubt the next gen of consoles will have some beef behind them but expecting 16 cores is a dream.

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]A hex core CPU @3.8ghzAndyAlfredo

A hex core cpu alone is more than half the price of consoles now, and the amount/type of cooling needed to run at 3.8ghz won't be reasonable on a console. Not to mention a good gpu to compilment the cpu...

[QUOTE="Ocid1"]

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]You guys are too pessimistic on these boards or maybe you are all pc elitest who can't stand the thought of a powerful games console. Every generation there has been a leap in visuals and next gen will be no different. As much as you say consoles are becoming casual there still needs to be a technical leap seen by them to think its a true next gen system. And if the rumored specs for Xbox loop/infinity are real then it won't be weak at all. A hex core CPU @3.8ghz, duel state of the art AMD gpu, 2 gigs of DDR3(I suspect that's system ram but there should be another 2gigs of fast DDR5 or XDR2. Add that together with good size HDD, high storage optical disc, and enhanced kinect 2.0 all in a closed environment that will be easy to dev for and it will hold its own for years against pc.GotNugz

You're expecting 16 core cpu's to be in the next gen consoles?. Ahahahaha no just no. Though I do think you're right in expecting a decent amount of RAM and a decent video card in the mix.

Theres no doubt the next gen of consoles will have some beef behind them but expecting 16 cores is a dream.

Lol **** You're right. Seen hex and immediately thought Hexidecimal thats why I thought WTF?! Might be time to sleep

My bad dude. Sorry.

Better hope no-one at college see's that. I'll get thrown out lol.

I want to and I expect the next-gen consoles to have a huge leap in processing power.

I want to play new IPs implementing new concepts and technologies, I want to be blown away again.

I expect to see something slightly worse (keyword: slightly) than what I can get on my desktop PC. And that's good.

No, I expect them to barely change.

Just 1080p HD and very few jaggies alone is a significant leap from the jagfest that is todays consoles. Of course there'll be a big leap in graphics since graphics are extremely important these days.

lol the launch titles will look better than the best PC games?

lol no console game looks better than HL2 or Doom 3 on PC, even Fear 1 trumps nearly all console games

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]If we judge by 360, they will have 10x stronger than 2011 hardware, better than the best on PC at the time of release in holiday 2013, that is two years from nowRyviusARC

Man that poster you quoted flew way over the cuckoo's nest. *forever banned for horrible joke*. :P

On-Topic: No. If you look at the direction Microsoft and Sony have been going, it is definately more of a Wii-route with less focus on raw graphical power and more about interactive experiences with games through motion controls. Lets be honest here depending solely on great graphics for a console and trying to make it all powerful is a terrible idea and in which the market cannot sustain. $400 for a home console is too much, $600 was way to much. Not only does having a powerful console drive up the cost of your unit, but it decreases your profit, adds to the already high development costs of games, and may drive away potential customers.

There will a good progress in texture detail, level sizes, true 1080 resolutions, and the features from modern Direct x10/11 based gpu's. However most people here that believe or want Consoles that can surpass today's med ranged gaming Pc's are going to be disappointed. The Wii-U will equal on par with High ended gaming Pc's from 2007. Then the next xbox has been confirmed to be AMD APU based it being APU based right there tell's (people that understand hardware) that will be a limit in what they can put inside the die. The GPU section will take up more then 75% of the transistor room which means there will be a power and heat boundary too. By the end of 2013 the best you will see in an APU is AMD 6770 type gpu performance, But realisticly 6670... and a quad core cpu. Then the PS4 will be using a revised Cell, but no real info on GPU.

I really really doubt it unless there is a huge overhaul to the way pricing schemes work on consoles.

Right now you either launch as a full-priced retail title, or a low-budget arcade title. There's no real middle ground for products that fit within that area. This can literally kill some games outright because it doesn't fit as an arcade title, but won't sell as a retail title. Upping console power (without changing the pricing scheme) would flat out kill the average-sized developers.

That's one of the areas PC flourishes in as of now. Everything can have it's exact price value met without harming the developer. Not only that, but there is no 'PSN' or 'XBLA' to differentiate the low-budget games from the big boys, so there's no added stigma about a $30 PC game being a sub-par in comparison to a $60 game which is good.

So yah to sum up my point if the 360 and PS3 have a big boost in power they need to drop the PSN/XBLA title off their downloadable store, and a middle ground NEEDS to be established. Games should be able to come out at $10, $20, $30, or $40 and flourish just as well as a $60 blockbuster. As it stands now without the middle ground those 'lower budget' titles just get tossed aside.

Again I will reiterate that consoles are closed environment that can be highly optimized, take the 360 and put it in a pc and the games won't look nearly as good.GotNugz

Well, here's my hopeful (and possibly overly optimistic) wish list:

• 1080p or 720p resolutions at 60fps minimum
• High quality textures
• Less pop-in in open world games
• 4x MSAA at a minimum
• Faster loading
• Reduced / no controller input lag
• Better AI
• Better effects (particle, volumetric smoke, water, etc.)
• Better shadows, AF, draw distance, and more implementation of HDR and SSAO

lol the launch titles will look better than the best PC games?

lol no console game looks better than HL2 or Doom 3 on PC, even Fear 1 trumps nearly all console games

HaloinventedFPS

so your saying doom 3 looks better than KZ2,3, Uncharted 3, Crysis 1 and 2, gears 3, ? lol Perfect Dark Zero looks better than the games you just mentioned and yes next gen launch titles will look as good as any maxed pc game in 2012.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]There will a good progress in texture detail, level sizes, true 1080 resolutions, and the features from modern Direct x10/11 based gpu's. However most people here that believe or want Consoles that can surpass today's med ranged gaming Pc's are going to be disappointed. The Wii-U will equal on par with High ended gaming Pc's from 2007. Then the next xbox has been confirmed to be AMD APU based it being APU based right there tell's (people that understand hardware) that will be a limit in what they can put inside the die. The GPU section will take up more then 75% of the transistor room which means there will be a power and heat boundary too. By 2013 the best you will see in an APU is AMD 6770 type gpu performance. and a quad core cpu. Then the PS4 will be using a revised Cell, but no real info on GPU. GotNugz

not true

find me a console game that looks better than Doom 3 on ultra, you cant

people with PC's less powerful than 360's maxed out Doom 3 and HL2 in 2004

consoles are much more easy to develop for, but they are not magic boxes, optimization is a buzzword chucked around alot these days and most console gamers dont even know what it means

it all comes down to how talented the dev is, HL2 and Doom 3 ran on weaker hardware then consoles, yet most decent gaming PC's in 2004 could max them

thats mainly because Carmack was a wizard before he sold out to consoles and the Source engine was god tier back in the day

Well, here's my hopeful (and possibly overly optimistic) wish list:

• 1080p or 720p resolutions at 60fps minimum
• High quality textures
• Less pop-in in open world games
• 4x MSAA at a minimum
• Faster loading
• Reduced / no controller input lag
• Better AI
• Better effects (particle, volumetric smoke, water, etc.)
• Better shadows, AF, draw distance, and more implementation of HDR and SSAO

Ryan_Som

thats not very optimistic at all the Wii U will be capable of that. the other machines will be able to run samaritan demo without much problem. cliffy b already said he could get it to run on a single 580

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

lol the launch titles will look better than the best PC games?

lol no console game looks better than HL2 or Doom 3 on PC, even Fear 1 trumps nearly all console games

GotNugz

so your saying doom 3 looks better than KZ2,3, Uncharted 3, Crysis 1 and 2, gears 3, ? lol Perfect Dark Zero looks better than the games you just mentioned and yes next gen launch titles will look as good as any maxed pc game in 2012.

Doom 3 doesnt look better than Crysis 1 and 2 on PC, but it sure looks better than any of the other games you mentioned

[QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

Well, here's my hopeful (and possibly overly optimistic) wish list:

• 1080p or 720p resolutions at 60fps minimum
• High quality textures
• Less pop-in in open world games
• 4x MSAA at a minimum
• Faster loading
• Reduced / no controller input lag
• Better AI
• Better effects (particle, volumetric smoke, water, etc.)
• Better shadows, AF, draw distance, and more implementation of HDR and SSAO

GotNugz

thats not very optimistic at all the Wii U will be capable of that. the other machines will be able to run samaritan demo without much problem. cliffy b already said he could get it to run on a single 580

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

[QUOTE="GotNugz"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]There will a good progress in texture detail, level sizes, true 1080 resolutions, and the features from modern Direct x10/11 based gpu's. However most people here that believe or want Consoles that can surpass today's med ranged gaming Pc's are going to be disappointed. The Wii-U will equal on par with High ended gaming Pc's from 2007. Then the next xbox has been confirmed to be AMD APU based it being APU based right there tell's (people that understand hardware) that will be a limit in what they can put inside the die. The GPU section will take up more then 75% of the transistor room which means there will be a power and heat boundary too. By 2013 the best you will see in an APU is AMD 6770 type gpu performance. and a quad core cpu. Then the PS4 will be using a revised Cell, but no real info on GPU. HaloinventedFPS

not true

find me a console game that looks better than Doom 3 on ultra, you cant

people with PC's less powerful than 360's maxed out Doom 3 and HL2 in 2004

consoles are much more easy to develop for, but they are not magic boxes, optimization is a buzzword chucked around alot these days and most console gamers dont even know what it means

it all comes down to how talented the dev is, HL2 and Doom 3 ran on weaker hardware then consoles, yet most decent gaming PC's in 2004 could max them

thats mainly because Carmack was a wizard before he sold out to consoles and the Source engine was god tier back in the day

i have already listed games that look better than Doom 3 on ultra, just because you set a game thats old to ultra isn't going to work wonders. so what people maxed out doom with 2004 kit? are you implying that the 360 couldn't run Doom 3? if you have talked to any developer you would know that developing on pc is a pain, i also invite you to set up a rig with 512mb DDR3, core 2 duo, and an X1900XT and see how well it will run games of 2011.

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

[QUOTE="GotNugz"] Where are you getting the APU based stuff from? And yes atleast the nextbox and ps4 will be more powerful than a midrange setup. Latest rumors from multiple sources says hexcore CPU and duel powerful AMD gpu's. Again I will reiterate that consoles are closed environment that can be highly optimized, take the 360 and put it in a pc and the games won't look nearly as good.GotNugz

not true

find me a console game that looks better than Doom 3 on ultra, you cant

people with PC's less powerful than 360's maxed out Doom 3 and HL2 in 2004

consoles are much more easy to develop for, but they are not magic boxes, optimization is a buzzword chucked around alot these days and most console gamers dont even know what it means

it all comes down to how talented the dev is, HL2 and Doom 3 ran on weaker hardware then consoles, yet most decent gaming PC's in 2004 could max them

thats mainly because Carmack was a wizard before he sold out to consoles and the Source engine was god tier back in the day

i have already listed games that look better than Doom 3 on ultra, just because you set a game thats old to ultra isn't going to work wonders. so what people maxed out doom with 2004 kit? are you implying that the 360 couldn't run Doom 3? if you have talked to any developer you would know that developing on pc is a pain, i also invite you to set up a rig with 512mb DDR3, core 2 duo, and an X1900XT and see how well it will run games of 2011.

Xbox 360 could play Doom 3 on ultra, but at 720p with no AA at 30fps

while any decent PC now can play it at 1080p wiith Super sample AA and at 60fps

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

[QUOTE="Ryan_Som"]

Well, here's my hopeful (and possibly overly optimistic) wish list:

• 1080p or 720p resolutions at 60fps minimum
• High quality textures
• Less pop-in in open world games
• 4x MSAA at a minimum
• Faster loading
• Reduced / no controller input lag
• Better AI
• Better effects (particle, volumetric smoke, water, etc.)
• Better shadows, AF, draw distance, and more implementation of HDR and SSAO

HaloinventedFPS

thats not very optimistic at all the Wii U will be capable of that. the other machines will be able to run samaritan demo without much problem. cliffy b already said he could get it to run on a single 580

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

wii u can't do what? better draw distances than 360/PS3 sure, 1080p@30 frames sure, better AI is 50/50 hardware and programming but it can do better ai than the twins so sure, not really sure what your getting at

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

thats not very optimistic at all the Wii U will be capable of that. the other machines will be able to run samaritan demo without much problem. cliffy b already said he could get it to run on a single 580

GotNugz

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

wii u can't do what? better draw distances than 360/PS3 sure, 1080p@30 frames sure, better AI is 50/50 hardware and programming but it can do better ai than the twins so sure, not really sure what your getting at

congrats, Wii U can now do what PC's from 2005 did

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

thats not very optimistic at all the Wii U will be capable of that. the other machines will be able to run samaritan demo without much problem. cliffy b already said he could get it to run on a single 580

GotNugz

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

wii u can't do what? better draw distances than 360/PS3 sure, 1080p@30 frames sure, better AI is 50/50 hardware and programming but it can do better ai than the twins so sure, not really sure what your getting at

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

HaloinventedFPS

wii u can't do what? better draw distances than 360/PS3 sure, 1080p@30 frames sure, better AI is 50/50 hardware and programming but it can do better ai than the twins so sure, not really sure what your getting at

congrats, Wii U can now do what PC's from 2005 did

[QUOTE="GotNugz"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]There will a good progress in texture detail, level sizes, true 1080 resolutions, and the features from modern Direct x10/11 based gpu's. However most people here that believe or want Consoles that can surpass today's med ranged gaming Pc's are going to be disappointed. The Wii-U will equal on par with High ended gaming Pc's from 2007. Then the next xbox has been confirmed to be AMD APU based it being APU based right there tell's (people that understand hardware) that will be a limit in what they can put inside the die. The GPU section will take up more then 75% of the transistor room which means there will be a power and heat boundary too. By 2013 the best you will see in an APU is AMD 6770 type gpu performance. and a quad core cpu. Then the PS4 will be using a revised Cell, but no real info on GPU. 04dcarraher

sorry i'd have more faith in multiple sources that are recent than some supposed leak from months ago. check the front page of GS, or teamxbox, or xboxygen, or eurogamer. i'm not saying they are true but i doubt MS is going the apu route. the amd cpu although powerful runs cool, and the gpu's make sense as they will most likely be manufactured on 28 or 22nm process=lees heat having duel chips also make 1080p rendering much easier.

PC's from 2005 could do 1600x1200 and if we are talking Ai, well Fear 1 came out in 2005 and still has the best Ai in any shooter, the graphics are still very good today, even better than Fear 2/3 thanks to consoles

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

04dcarraher

wii u can't do what? better draw distances than 360/PS3 sure, 1080p@30 frames sure, better AI is 50/50 hardware and programming but it can do better ai than the twins so sure, not really sure what your getting at

i'm not saying wii u is going to be very powerful but haloinventedfps is saying it can't do some standard things slightly better than the twins

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

HaloinventedFPS

Cool story bro. Mind sharing where you got that information?

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

Wii U cant do that bro, its not that powerful, its a buffed up 360

ChubbyGuy40

Cool story bro. Mind sharing where you got that information?

the CPU was the same as 360 wasnt it?

ITT: people with zero hardware background arguing about hardware

I expect what was shown with the unreal next gen tech demo. Why? Because it was unreal and it said next gen tech demo.

Well, here's my hopeful (and possibly overly optimistic) wish list:

• 1080p or 720p resolutions at 60fps minimum
• High quality textures
• Less pop-in in open world games
• 4x MSAA at a minimum
• Faster loading
• Reduced / no controller input lag
• Better AI
• Better effects (particle, volumetric smoke, water, etc.)
• Better shadows, AF, draw distance, and more implementation of HDR and SSAO

Ryan_Som

I expect what was shown with the unreal next gen tech demo. Why? Because it was unreal and it said next gen tech demo.

15strong

It's also a tech demo.

Stuff from the Unreal Engine 3 tech demo has still never been replicated.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="GotNugz"] Where are you getting the APU based stuff from? And yes atleast the nextbox and ps4 will be more powerful than a midrange setup. Latest rumors from multiple sources says hexcore CPU and duel powerful AMD gpu's. Again I will reiterate that consoles are closed environment that can be highly optimized, take the 360 and put it in a pc and the games won't look nearly as good.GotNugz

sorry i'd have more faith in multiple sources that are recent than some supposed leak from months ago. check the front page of GS, or teamxbox, or xboxygen, or eurogamer. i'm not saying they are true but i doubt MS is going the apu route. the amd cpu although powerful runs cool, and the gpu's make sense as they will most likely be manufactured on 28 or 22nm process=lees heat having duel chips also make 1080p rendering much easier.

the CPU was the same as 360 wasnt it?

HaloinventedFPS

A tri-core CPU based off a brand-new architecture that powers that Watson super-computer that IBM has.

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Look it up "next xbox to use AMD APU based on Trinity architecture " .... And no the next xbox will not surpass a 2011 mid ranged gaming Pc's ie quad core cpu, 4gb , Nvidia GTX 460/AMD 6850 . Ya those rumors are way off and two strong AMD gpu's O please they cant be serious.... they are not going to create a consoles that needs 500w of power and $100 worth of cooling to prevent overheating. Thenthe consoles still have to follow basic hardware laws of abilities and the 360 can not equal pc hardware thats multiple times faster and has more memory resources to use. Optimization is the not the magic answer to get console games to look and better its called compromising what can we cut to save resources. 04dcarraher

sorry i'd have more faith in multiple sources that are recent than some supposed leak from months ago. check the front page of GS, or teamxbox, or xboxygen, or eurogamer. i'm not saying they are true but i doubt MS is going the apu route. the amd cpu although powerful runs cool, and the gpu's make sense as they will most likely be manufactured on 28 or 22nm process=lees heat having duel chips also make 1080p rendering much easier.

well since either of us really doesn't know unless you work for MS i guess we will have to wait and see. you do also realise that the first xbox 360 dev kit was nothing but a glorifed apple A5 single processor underclocked with a gimped graphics card? early dev kits have no bearing on final hardware.

[QUOTE="GotNugz"]

GotNugz

well since either of us really doesn't know unless you work for MS i guess we will have to wait and see. you do also realise that the first xbox 360 dev kit was nothing but a glorifed apple A5 single processor underclocked with a gimped graphics card? early dev kits have no bearing on final hardware.

The dual gpu section of the rumor is just baseless , having two low end gpu's would not do anything over a stronger single gpu. You have the problem with extra heat produced and power, it would cost more to produce two gpu die's then just one die with more transistors. then you have the memory scaling problem when you use multi gpu's like SLI or Crossfire.

*edit* unless they plan on doing APU(cpu + gpu) + gpu crossfire scaling which is still pointless really. because you would only see around 15% boost over a discrete gpu.

ie A8-3850 with 6570 (crossfire) vs a A8 3850 with 6670.