Busting a myth: xbox live is worth $50 edition

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]

Honest to god, i dont think you could miss the point more times than you already have. And i'm not flaming you - i'm honestly not - , i'm genuinely expressing frustration as i simply cannot talk to you.

"You said it's better!"
YES I KNOW

I KNOW IT'S BETTER. I SAID THAT FROM THE START. I'VE SAID IT DOZENS OF TIMES! THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S WORTH $50 THOUGH. READ THE TOPIC BEFORE POSTING!

And no, i'm not angry. I'm posting in caps because i've said this to you at least ten times already yet you keep replying with the same thing.

I dont have to question every person on earth who has xbox live. That's rediculous. I made a thread asking people if it's worth paying for and what we're paying for. The opinions of people here will do just fine.

Honestly, if you think i look immature good for you. I honestly cant explain this any more times than i already have.

3picuri3

keep in mind that a lot of people in this thread are equally frustrated with your stance. how can you say something that is better isn't worth 50$??? it's not even the full price of a game and it covers you for all online play for a year... 7 cents a day and you get unified buddy lists, voice chat, access to tons of other features that PSN doens't currently have. the fact that the PSN laundry list of upcoming changes are directly lifted from features on XBL speaks volumes. I know you're pulling the 'i said it was better' junk, but buddy.. if you keep doing that you're just shooting your argument in the foot.

besides all of that --- what about all of the online gaming? all of the insane fun I've had since launch with my 360 on over 50 different multiplayer games? how the hell is that not worth 7 cents a day?

maybe you're frustrated because you're realizing how flawed you myth debunk is.

Again though all you've given me is "tons of other features!"

What features? That was the thread here and nobody can answer it. The other guy gave me "and loads more" but he scurried off when i asked him like what.

And again; if $50 is totally worth it why do you feel the need to break it down to how many pennies a day to make it appear smaller?

Better does not equal=worth $50. That logic doesn't make any sense at all. Like i said, it IS better but it isn't better to the degree that i'd pay $50 for it. I dont see how saying it's better is remotely shooting myself in the foot. :|

Honestly; you say my post if flawed yet you've offered absolutely nothing to answer the question i asked, which is really very simple.

What does it have over everything else which is worth $50 a year?

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]

Honest to god, i dont think you could miss the point more times than you already have. And i'm not flaming you - i'm honestly not - , i'm genuinely expressing frustration as i simply cannot talk to you.

"You said it's better!"
YES I KNOW

I KNOW IT'S BETTER. I SAID THAT FROM THE START. I'VE SAID IT DOZENS OF TIMES! THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S WORTH $50 THOUGH. READ THE TOPIC BEFORE POSTING!

And no, i'm not angry. I'm posting in caps because i've said this to you at least ten times already yet you keep replying with the same thing.

I dont have to question every person on earth who has xbox live. That's rediculous. I made a thread asking people if it's worth paying for and what we're paying for. The opinions of people here will do just fine.

Honestly, if you think i look immature good for you. I honestly cant explain this any more times than i already have.

Ninja-Vox

keep in mind that a lot of people in this thread are equally frustrated with your stance. how can you say something that is better isn't worth 50$??? it's not even the full price of a game and it covers you for all online play for a year... 7 cents a day and you get unified buddy lists, voice chat, access to tons of other features that PSN doens't currently have. the fact that the PSN laundry list of upcoming changes are directly lifted from features on XBL speaks volumes. I know you're pulling the 'i said it was better' junk, but buddy.. if you keep doing that you're just shooting your argument in the foot.

besides all of that --- what about all of the online gaming? all of the insane fun I've had since launch with my 360 on over 50 different multiplayer games? how the hell is that not worth 7 cents a day?

maybe you're frustrated because you're realizing how flawed you myth debunk is.

Again though all you've given me is "tons of other features!"

What features? That was the thread here and nobody can answer it. The other guy gave me "and loads more" but he scurried off when i asked him like what.

And again; if $50 is totally worth it why do you feel the need to break it down to how many pennies a day to make it appear smaller?

Better does not equal=worth $50. That logic doesn't make any sense at all. Like i said, it IS better but it isn't better to the degree that i'd pay $50 for it. I dont see how saying it's better is remotely shooting myself in the foot. :|

Honestly; you say my post if flawed yet you've offered absolutely nothing to answer the question i asked, which is really very simple.

What does it have over everything else which is worth $50 a year?

Its not worth $50, its been said a ton of times now, why do you keep looking for an answer no one can give you? Let this thread die.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

how is it not 50$ better? 7.3 cents a day is too much for something you admit is better? it also includes a gold Gaming For Windows Live subscription (not that the service is really taking off yet - but still).

you really haven't debunked anything really - there's one saying that says you will never debunk it (if you believe it, and you can't say you don't because it's absolutely true) :

Question: What is something worth? Answer: Whatever people will pay for it.

i dunno what to tell you if you don't think that little parable rings true. because it is true. if themajority of 360 owners didn't think it was worth it they wouldn't be buying it :) but they are, and in record numbers. keep in mind i game on PS3/360/Wii/PC too - so i'm not just some dribbling fanboy.

Ninja-Vox

It is better. It isn't $50 a year better. Seriously, breaking it down to how many pennies an hour it is is just silly. It shows that you dont want to admit that it's $50 a year and would rather make it seem smaller.

Simply put, i play all three consoles and my PC. My 360 is the only thing i have to PAY for to use online. And frequently i find horrendous multiplayer games like gears, or the odd session of rainbow six where lag is so bad i literally cannot play any more and i have to stop and ask; what am i paying for? Why are there no dedicated servers if we're paying all this money every year? What exactly is microsoft giving me in return for my money, seeing as the game is hosted on my connection?

And like others have said, people pay for it because they have to. I do. The guy i was talking to just one page back does too. Because it's a price which isn't extortionate. You dont feel as if it's a criminal waste of money. But at the same time, i've wondered why i pay for it. And if that's not a big enough hint that you're not getting bang for your buck, i dont know what is.

Nice post, by the way.

i'm not trying to avoid saying it's 50$ a year. i can say that as much as you like. i was just trying to show it from a different angle, sometimes breaking costs down help people realize how valuable something truly is.

lag will be an issue always because the majority of xbl games are privately hosted - a good argument against a fee, but it insures the game will be there for you to play for some time to come as you aren't relying on a fixed server (which can be worse for so many other reasons). but to be honest this is an issue with all platforms - no amount of money will fix networking infrastructure (imean in terms of service price, obviously money can improve infrastructure)- or people running filesharing apps while they host games :) if you really want me to get in to the other problems involved in fixed servers I will.

i don't really know what else to say, because like I said before something is only worth what someone will pay for it. and if you're at that point i guess all i can do is wish you luck in your future online gaming without xbl :) i personally think all the fun i've had with it warrants the cost. and it isn't just the fun, it's all the other little things under the hood with xbl - all the great chat features, integrated messager, video chat, buddy lists, background downloading, etc. As far as console gaming goes its the best that's out there - so i have to say it's worth my 50$ for those reasons.

You're the one that brought the wrong/ right philosophy into it. All I did was ask what you based your opinion on. There has to be a comparison. In that way, the pricing of other services is relevant. So you're saying that competitor pricing is not a factor on whether another service is worth it? If so, YOU ARE WRONG.

Trashface

Honestly, what are you even talking about?

My point was simple: just because others pay MORE does not mean you paying less is worth the money. That dosen't make any sense.

Points dont get any simpler than that. Where you're pulling wrong/right philosophy and competitor pricing from is beyond me.

My incredibly simple point:

You pay money for product a). Other people pay MORE money for product b). Just because they pay MORE than you do does not suddenly mean product a) is worth every penny. Product a) could stink and still be a complete rip-off regardless of product b) being more expensive.

And *NO* i'm not saying xbox live stinks. It's just an example.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]

Honest to god, i dont think you could miss the point more times than you already have. And i'm not flaming you - i'm honestly not - , i'm genuinely expressing frustration as i simply cannot talk to you.

"You said it's better!"
YES I KNOW

I KNOW IT'S BETTER. I SAID THAT FROM THE START. I'VE SAID IT DOZENS OF TIMES! THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S WORTH $50 THOUGH. READ THE TOPIC BEFORE POSTING!

And no, i'm not angry. I'm posting in caps because i've said this to you at least ten times already yet you keep replying with the same thing.

I dont have to question every person on earth who has xbox live. That's rediculous. I made a thread asking people if it's worth paying for and what we're paying for. The opinions of people here will do just fine.

Honestly, if you think i look immature good for you. I honestly cant explain this any more times than i already have.

Ninja-Vox

keep in mind that a lot of people in this thread are equally frustrated with your stance. how can you say something that is better isn't worth 50$??? it's not even the full price of a game and it covers you for all online play for a year... 7 cents a day and you get unified buddy lists, voice chat, access to tons of other features that PSN doens't currently have. the fact that the PSN laundry list of upcoming changes are directly lifted from features on XBL speaks volumes. I know you're pulling the 'i said it was better' junk, but buddy.. if you keep doing that you're just shooting your argument in the foot.

besides all of that --- what about all of the online gaming? all of the insane fun I've had since launch with my 360 on over 50 different multiplayer games? how the hell is that not worth 7 cents a day?

maybe you're frustrated because you're realizing how flawed you myth debunk is.

Again though all you've given me is "tons of other features!"

What features? That was the thread here and nobody can answer it. The other guy gave me "and loads more" but he scurried off when i asked him like what.

And again; if $50 is totally worth it why do you feel the need to break it down to how many pennies a day to make it appear smaller?

Better does not equal=worth $50. That logic doesn't make any sense at all. Like i said, it IS better but it isn't better to the degree that i'd pay $50 for it. I dont see how saying it's better is remotely shooting myself in the foot. :|

Honestly; you say my post if flawed yet you've offered absolutely nothing to answer the question i asked, which is really very simple.

What does it have over everything else which is worth $50 a year?

well if you really wanta list i can make it - most people are probably balking at if because it's a beautiful sunday on a long weekend :) i do have a friend coming over shortly so give me some time. i'll definitely put it up today though - i promise :)

i'm not trying to avoid saying it's 50$ a year. i can say that as much as you like. i was just trying to show it from a different angle, sometimes breaking costs down help people realize how valuable something truly is.

lag will be an issue always because the majority of xbl games are privately hosted - a good argument against a fee, but it insures the game will be there for you to play for some time to come as you aren't relying on a fixed server (which can be worse for so many other reasons). but to be honest this is an issue with all platforms - no amount of money will fix networking infrastructure - or people running filesharing apps while they host games :) if you really want me to get in to the other problems involved in fixed servers I will.

i don't really know what else to say, because like I said before something is only worth what someone will pay for it. and if you're at that point i guess all i can do is wish you luck in your future online gaming without xbl :) i personally think all the fun i've had with it warrants the cost. and it isn't just the fun, it's all the other little things under the hood with xbl - all the great chat features, integrated messager, video chat, buddy lists, background downloading, etc. As far as console gaming goes its the best that's out there - so i have to say it's worth my 50$ for those reasons.

3picuri3

I'll keep paying for it. :) I'll have to if i want to play Halo 3. And i'm a huge halo fanboy so that's a must. I think microsoft could do an awful lot more for their customers though. After all, if it weren't for the awful gears of war netcode, the glitches all over the place, the host advantage and the occassional lag i sure as heck wouldn't be complaining. Remove all of that and you've got perfect online gaming and bang for your buck.

My major complaint is that you cannot have a paid service which has all of the same flaws and issues that free services have.

But like i said, i'll keep paying. I can only hope that they fix these issues. And that bungie's netcode is even better than Halo 2's.

well if you really wanta list i can make it - most people are probably balking at if because it's a beautiful sunday on a long weekend :) i do have a friend coming over shortly so give me some time. i'll definitely put it up today though - i promise :)

3picuri3

Five things which are worth going from paying nothing to paying $50 a year will do just fine.

I'll keep paying for it. :) I'll have to if i want to play Halo 3. And i'm a huge halo fanboy so that's a must. I think microsoft could do an awful lot more for their customers though. After all, if it weren't for the awful gears of war netcode, the glitches all over the place, the host advantage and the occassional lag i sure as heck wouldn't be complaining. Remove all of that and you've got perfect online gaming and bang for your buck.

My major complaint is that you cannot have a paid service which has all of the same flaws and issues that free services have.

But like i said, i'll keep paying. I can only hope that they fix these issues. And that bungie's netcode is even better than Halo 2's.

Ninja-Vox

I totally agree - it's not perfect. But MS does do regular dashboard updates to include new features that have never increased the cost of service. you have to give them some credit for that -- even if the last major spring update did brick my 360 :).

bungies netcode is nearly flawless :) they set the bar for other games in terms of matchmaking and online goodness. i'm not a massive halo fan, but i can recognize a good service when i see one.

i'll put together a point form list of features on xbl vs. other free online providers a bit later today - i'll post it here ;) then maybe we can do a more constructive breakdown of the service.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

well if you really wanta list i can make it - most people are probably balking at if because it's a beautiful sunday on a long weekend :) i do have a friend coming over shortly so give me some time. i'll definitely put it up today though - i promise :)

Ninja-Vox

Five things which are worth going from paying nothing to paying $50 a year will do just fine.

i'll try to do something a bit more comprehensive :) something that compares it to other similar free services. but like i said, i likely won't post it until later tonight - making ice cream in a bag with a friend, lol. then some drinks on mah patio - but then i'll get to work on it.

i'll let you know how the ice cream goes too, heh.

well as of right now we're paying 50a year for no dedicated servers and from what i hear psn has tons set up for warhawk and later games too, i also heard a rumor that live was gonna get dedicated servers for halo 3 but this is something that should be available to every xbox live game being that we're paying for it, gears would be so much better on dedicated servers, no bullet lag and no host advantageblues3531

that's not quite true - some 360 games do use/rely on dedicated servers :)

Dont worry about it man. I think this thread went horribly off track with so many people thinking it was a complaint about money and posting "but anyone can afford $50 man!"

I guess that's what you get for posting a wall of text; dont expect anyone to read it. :P

Dont worry about it man. I think this thread went horribly off track with so many people thinking it was a complaint about money and posting "but anyone can afford $50 man!"

I guess that's what you get for posting a wall of text; dont expect anyone to read it. :P

Ninja-Vox

that's system wars for you :)

Ninja-Vox speaketh truth.

While XBL is better, there is no reason for there to be an annual fee for its features.

...but I'm not going to stop paying for it either.

[QUOTE="Trashface"]

You're the one that brought the wrong/ right philosophy into it. All I did was ask what you based your opinion on. There has to be a comparison. In that way, the pricing of other services is relevant. So you're saying that competitor pricing is not a factor on whether another service is worth it? If so, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ninja-Vox

Honestly, what are you even talking about?

My point was simple: just because others pay MORE does not mean you paying less is worth the money. That dosen't make any sense.

Points dont get any simpler than that. Where you're pulling wrong/right philosophy and competitor pricing from is beyond me.

My incredibly simple point:

You pay money for product a). Other people pay MORE money for product b). Just because they pay MORE than you do does not suddenly mean product a) is worth every penny. Product a) could stink and still be a complete rip-off regardless of product b) being more expensive.

And *NO* i'm not saying xbox live stinks. It's just an example.

Yes, I understand and understood your point. I'll simplify mine. While you can't base something's quality solely on competitor prices, other's rates do reflect and have some indication on the bang for the buck you get with your service.

IMO It's Worth it. For $50 I can talk to my family in Serbia on Videochat for as long as I want. AlthoughI do agree with the lag and stuff in Live. The only lag I experience is Bullet Lag and Lag in Sports Games. But nothing is perfect right?

It's robbery.ball_of_air

if so then let them steal!!! We'll just continue having fun with their service!!! Halo deathmatches in HD y'all!!!! Are you ready to finish the fight??

yeah true, i was also kind off surprised that they charge $50 and have no dedicated serversnaval

Off topic: no game you listed in "best games" have been released. How can they be best if no one has played them?

Ninja, you should have made a poll. Anyways, I paid $40 for 13 months of LIVE and I can honestly say it's the best online experience I've ever had. If it was a little cheaper though, with dedicated servers, it would possibly be the best ever.

LIVE is awesome.

If MS had a bunch of servers and it actually cost them to maintainthe servers toensure quality xbox live service, then $50 a year would be worth it.

But,$50 for p2p service is basically a scam that most lems would be willing to pay.

[QUOTE="naval"]yeah true, i was also kind off surprised that they charge $50 and have no dedicated serversTrashface

Off topic: no game you listed in "best games" have been released. How can they be best if no one has played them?

ahh this is what i am actually hoping/hyping to be the best games( for the period of this gen of consoles ) more than anything, but imo besides crysis all other have a very good chance of coming true.

If MS had a bunch of servers and it actually cost them to maintainthe servers toensure quality xbox live service, then $50 a year would be worth it.

But,$50 for p2p service is basically a scam that most lems would be willing to pay.

outlawz247

Must agree. No sense at all in charging people while only offering P2P, meanwhile the competition has dedicated servers (and less lag as a direct result).

It's definately not worth it, had I been a Live subscriber from the start(02?) I would now be 410 bucks poorer(it's more expensive in here), considering that I will prolly be a gamer for the rest of my life, that small annual fee would eventually end up costing a lot. I mean I pay my ISP only half of what Live costs! And for that I get to access everything in the web. If I've already paid for the game and to my ISP, why should I have to pay even more just to play the friggin game online.

But just like with MMORPGs, as long as people are willing to pay, companies will be happy to charge them. And they don't call them lemmings for nothing!

Great post Ninja-Vox. I feel the same way. I can understand the pricing before but with the new ways to make money --- microtransactions, movies, xbox live arcade, I think Microsoft is just overcharging for this service. Heck look at Steam, its free and beats anything out there, Xfire, PSN and soon Xbox Live as long as Microsoft sit back on their laurels and justify their yearly subscription.

Yeh, I pretty much agree with that. I haven't paid for mine yet. I've been living off free trials, then my 360 broke. I've got about another 3 months worth of free Xbox Live somewhere.

Anyway. The only way I think Microsoft could justify it is by a) giving us dedicated servers or b) making online play free. They won't though. Xbox Live Gold is easy money for Microsoft, and they're (still) targeting making a profit.

Ill trade my Wi-Fi on my Wii for your XBL if you want?

Any takers?

I thought MS was going to do something about this, maybe make it cheaper, add servers. But now they can't. Why? The 3 red lights. They need to make money to cover up that $1 billion loss. Best way to make it? XBL.

Another thing I wonder is if XBL would have as many demos/videos/bringing it home and so on if it was all free. Something tells me no............

Until PSN or Wii online is as good as XBL, I am not going to complain. I mean hey, I am playing the cod4 beta right now. I guess that $50 a year did something!

I thought MS was going to do something about this, maybe make it cheaper, add servers. But now they can't. Why? The 3 red lights. They need to make money to cover up that $1 billion loss. Best way to make it? XBL.

Another thing I wonder is if XBL would have as many demos/videos/bringing it home and so on if it was all free. Something tells me no............

Until PSN or Wii online is as good as XBL, I am not going to complain. I mean hey, I am playing the cod4 beta right now. I guess that $50 a year did something!

limpbizkit818

1 Billion is a blow to microsoft, but not a big enough one for them not to be able to wait. Microsoft is a HUGE company, this wll not hurt them that badly

Gears of War anyone?

I almost break controllers over this game online(and I never do stuff like that).

What is up with the advertisements onxbox live? I pay money and i still have tosee an annoying mountain dew orany other eye annoyance.At least on the PS3 youdon't see any advertisment onthe maindashboard.Untillon log on to the PS store.gamindude_basic

yeah it's not a big deal but it pisses me off too.... i remember when everyone had to have basic after their name :lol:

I dunno, i like Xbox Live, i think its worth 50 a year for the stuff they give you: Demos, Movies, TV Shows, Full Games, XBLA Games, and Online service for games. Itd be worth it even more if they got rid of the ads -.-. I mean if you're gunna have ads on XBL, at least make it cheaper -.-.

Yes, I understand and understood your point. I'll simplify mine. While you can't base something's quality solely on competitor prices, other's rates do reflect and have some indication on the bang for the buck you get with your service.

Trashface

Honestly, i dont think i've ever seen anyone make so many rediculous posts all just so they dont have to admit they messed up and didn't get somebody's point. I already said it was my fault for not wording it better.

Let it go. Wow.