Calling Killzone 2 a Failure Compared to Halo is Like...

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="IronBass"] Consdering that this two: "Environments full of life and motion. Seamless mix of ragdoll physics and scripted animation to make every bullet have a rewarding impact on the enemy. " Have been done on a lot of games before, we got the first two claimed standard that KZ2 didn't set. The otehr is just a multiplayer mode, as there are lots of them across the genre. And finaly, "Volumetric effects used in every bullet to give them a powerful feel."... well... really?IronBass

Those are all pre-scripted animations.Rikusaki

And the difference is that noticeable?

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"] RE5, RE4, CoD4, Gears of War...IronBass

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"] Really? Are you sure about that first one? Show me a game where the character model's physics engine reacts to every bullet impact. Stevo_the_gamer

Play KZ2 and you'll see :D. Not only noticeable, but tide-changing.TREAL_Since

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"] Play KZ2 and you'll see :D. Not only noticeable, but tide-changing.IronBass

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"] Play KZ2 and you'll see :D. Not only noticeable, but tide-changing.IronBass

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="TREAL_Since"] Play KZ2 and you'll see :D. Not only noticeable, but tide-changing.TREAL_Since

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]I think a game in raise the bar in multiple ways. Of course setting a standard automatically qualifies. But also improvements on existing standards and implementing new ideas (which KZ2 does) raises the bar. Even if we don't see it in every game in the future.Rikusaki

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"][QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]On another note: I don't see how COD4 set standards per say. But it definitely raised the bar.Episode_Eve

Not really, ragdoll in HL2 doesn't come into play until the target is dead. They're immovable bullet-sponges. KZ2's hit-response system is much more integrated and advance compared to post-death ragdoll.TREAL_Since

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]Not really, ragdoll in HL2 doesn't come into play until the target is dead. They're immovable bullet-sponges. KZ2's hit-response system is much more integrated and advance compared to post-death ragdoll.Stevo_the_gamer

Could somebody explain to me what's the difference between "setting a standard" and "rising a bar"? To me, they sound exactly as the same thing.IronBass

To me setting a standard means that something will be used alot in new games. (like the controlls of the Halo games for the xbox consoles).

Raising a bar well...look at Crysis, raised the bar in terms of graphics and physics. Other developers have yet to top it.

You really have to play the game in its entirety. That includes SP and MP. Watching vids don't do it justice. It is a video game after all, not a movie :P. But hit-response isn't the only reason KZ2 raises the bar and can potentially set new standards. It's really the sum of its parts. Warzone, hit-repsonse, momentum based mechanics, and Gamebattles-like clan integration to name a few. Much like Halo 2 for example.TREAL_Since

I'll be seeing roughly the same or similar animations regardless so why wouldn't a video do justice? It's not like I have to "actually play the game" in order to experience what a character looks like when he's shot and killed. Again, after seeing it in action -- I have to say it's not impressive as you claim it to be; it looks nothing new.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]

You really have to play the game in its entirety. That includes SP and MP. Watching vids don't do it justice. It is a video game after all, not a movie :P. But hit-response isn't the only reason KZ2 raises the bar and can potentially set new standards. It's really the sum of its parts. Warzone, hit-repsonse, momentum based mechanics, and Gamebattles-like clan integration to name a few. Much like Halo 2 for example.Stevo_the_gamer

I'll be seeing roughly the same or similar animations regardless so why wouldn't a video do justice? It's not like I have to "actually play the game" in order to experience what a character looks like when he's shot and killed. Again, after seeing it in action -- I have to say it's not impressive as you claim it to be; it looks nothing new.

It's deeper than the looks. It affects the game play as in enemy accuracy and reaction times. The animations are tied to it all. One's impressions don't change the fact its something new for the genre. It's a super evolution to RE4's hit-detection. In the end it's one of many thing that KZ2 does so well and new.

TREAL_Since

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]

It's deeper than the looks. It affects the game play as in enemy accuracy and reaction times. The animations are tied to it all. One's impressions don't change the fact its something new for the genre. It's a super evolution to RE4's hit-detection. In the end it's one of many thing that KZ2 does so well and new.

Stevo_the_gamer

But... the good thing is that the hit-response in KZ2 isn't the only aspect that's "new" or an "improvement" to the genre. Even if you want to personally single it out of the equation there are multiple other aspects.

FEAR doesn't have a hit-response system like KZ2 that effects enemy accuracy and response times. Great animations no doubt though. It's an evolution to an existing standard. But... the good thing is that the hit-response in KZ2 isn't the only aspect that's "new" or an "improvement" to the genre. Even if you want to personally single it out of the equation there are multiple other aspects.TREAL_Since

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]FEAR doesn't have a hit-response system like KZ2 that effects enemy accuracy and response times. Great animations no doubt though. It's an evolution to an existing standard. But... the good thing is that the hit-response in KZ2 isn't the only aspect that's "new" or an "improvement" to the genre. Even if you want to personally single it out of the equation there are multiple other aspects.Stevo_the_gamer

The point Rikusaki made pretty much stands. Now we have to wait and see if any of KZ2's ideas and improvements are implemented into future shooters. It's very likely.

It's funny how fanboys think because they say it brings something new and raises the bar is true,it doesn't do anything new get over it.McdonaIdsGuy

The PC can outdo consoles on a technical level. It's basically limitless. Like Crysis. That game was almost 2 years ahead of it's time. A game could not release like that on a console with set hardware. In that case, PC is defintely the best tech wise.

The point Rikusaki made pretty much stands. Now we have to wait and see if any of KZ2's ideas and improvements are implemented into future shooters. It's very likely.

TREAL_Since

I still don't understand nor get how ANYONE can call Killzone 2 a failure.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]The PC can outdo consoles on a technical level. It's basically limitless. Like Crysis. That game was almost 2 years ahead of it's time. A game could not release like that on a console with set hardware. In that case, PC is defintely the best tech wise.

The point Rikusaki made pretty much stands. Now we have to wait and see if any of KZ2's ideas and improvements are implemented into future shooters. It's very likely.

Stevo_the_gamer

I still don't understand nor get how ANYONE can call Killzone 2 a failure.

Its a bad comparation considering Forza series outscore and outsell GT series these days. Anyway, i dont think Killzone2 is a failure....far from it. Its a great game!

No sir. Forza is what GT strives to be, a racing sim (more so, atleast) Since it's release it has out scored GT, and has been univerally praised as the top console racing sim. Killzone 2, despite how great it is, has not. It's just a very good shooter, with no real innovation.

...calling the Forza series a failure compared to Gran Turismo.

Both games are great. Gran Turismo and Halo are much more successful because they've both been here longer and have a much larger fan-base.

Forza and Killzone (especially Killzone since the first game was bad) have much smaller fan-bases and they will obviously sell less.

Both Halo and GT were revolutionary when they first started, but after that, they just seemed great, not amazing.

Killzone 2 is a great game that has raised the bar for the FPS genre. You can't deny that.

It had to raise the bar somewhat or it wouldn't have gotten a 9.0 here on GS. Simple as that.

Even though Halo and Gran Turismo are ahead in sales, both games are missing features that their less successful competitors have.

Rikusaki

Its a bad comparation considering Forza series outscore and outsell GT series these days. Anyway, i dont think Killzone2 is a failure....far from it. Its a great game!

PAL360

...calling the Forza series a failure compared to Gran Turismo.

Both games are great. Gran Turismo and Halo are much more successful because they've both been here longer and have a much larger fan-base.

Forza and Killzone (especially Killzone since the first game was bad) have much smaller fan-bases and they will obviously sell less.

Both Halo and GT were revolutionary when they first started, but after that, they just seemed great, not amazing.

Killzone 2 is a great game that has raised the bar for the FPS genre. You can't deny that.

It had to raise the bar somewhat or it wouldn't have gotten a 9.0 here on GS. Simple as that.

Even though Halo and Gran Turismo are ahead in sales, both games are missing features that their less successful competitors have.

Rikusaki

if u believe what ur saying u would not have posted this topic. it has being posted over 100 time. if ur that insecure about the greatness of kllzone 2 dont play it.

At least KZ2 did what Halo 3 didn't graphically and it has destructible environment something I wanted to see in a next-gen Halo.

Other than that, the Warzone, it was a smart idea but they didn't implement it very well because they sacrificed singleplay for the sake of teamplay, they should include five different match types in their next dlc for single play like free for all and other new match types and make the MP modes changes on the fly exactly like the current warzone, this way I think KZ2 would be the standard for MP.

Is it a failure? Hell no, any game that sells over 1M is not a failure, was the sales of the game a let-down? yes,after this much hype for it, I expected more sales but it's only been a month for the release of the game so lets wait and see where the sales go.

I mean it's a shooter which is the most popular genre this gen and was amazingly executed graphically and gameplay, everything a shooter fan could ask for.

[QUOTE="Ibacai"]Yeah, but didn't Forza 2 outsell GT5 Prologue? Might want to think up another comparison.Rikusaki

So now GT5: Prologue isn't a full game? So Prologue buyers were charged $40 for a demo, like I originally said. How interesting.

While it certainly is not a failure, it also isn't the paradigm shift that some Sony fanboys make it out to be. To me it's like Dead Space, it took a bunch of already existing game concepts and melded them together to make an extremely solid game. But to be honest, I never felt that while playing it, that it was anything special. But calling it a failure is just dumb.

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="Ibacai"]Yeah, but didn't Forza 2 outsell GT5 Prologue? Might want to think up another comparison.whatisazerg

So now GT5: Prologue isn't a full game? So Prologue buyers were charged $40 for a demo, like I originally said. How interesting.

[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"] Play KZ2 and you'll see :D. Not only noticeable, but tide-changing.IronBass

This is what it looks like just incase you don't own the game.

Since it's a physics engine instead of scripted animation, every kill is unique and rewarding.

This isn't revolutionary, but it's a nice step forward.

GT5 Prologue is not a full game, that's why. It only has 70 cars, 5 tracks. GT5 Prologue is really not a major installment to the series. Why not compare Forza 1 to GT4 Prologue, then?Rikusaki

So now GT5: Prologue isn't a full game? So Prologue buyers were charged $40 for a demo, like I originally said. How interesting.

[QUOTE="whatisazerg"]

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"] GT5 Prologue is not a full game, that's why. It only has 70 cars, 5 tracks. GT5 Prologue is really not a major installment to the series. Why not compare Forza 1 to GT4 Prologue, then?navstar29

So now GT5: Prologue isn't a full game? So Prologue buyers were charged $40 for a demo, like I originally said. How interesting.

I was surprised so few games after Halo 3 included a theatre mode or metagame scoring. The fact hat Halo Wars didn't even have some type of video recording mode, given that most games in the RTS genre do, was extremely disappointing to me.

There's no telling what dev's will do in the future - so it's kinda of presumputuous to say KZ2 has changed the industry in any significant way. We just have to wait and see how many of KZ2 features other devs implement and build upon, you know?

Just my two cents.

In terms of gameplay, KZ2 isn't a failure. The campaign is entertaining and the multiplayer is solid. My only complaint was that my squad member's AI sometimes did stupid things that would either get me killed or caused certain checkpoints to be more difficult than they should have been.

In terms of sales, Sony doesn't simply want this game to break even after all the time and money put into it. This is a marquee title for the PS3 that should move consoles. It's still too early to determine whether or not it succeeded. You may not think sales matter, but if it doesn't make enough profits for Sony we might not see as much effort and money put into a sequel.