He writes "squeeze more water from that stone". Why are people acting as if he saying the 360 is just getting started. His comment makes absolute sense. He is talking about optimization and minor enhancements to make games look better. Hence the reference to a stone and not a sponge. Why don't half of you understand the context of the quote?

Cliffy B will literally say anything good about Microsoft.

Crazyguy105

Because he's employed by them.

QUICK 360 OWNERS! STEAL THAT CROWN FROM THE PS3 AND RUN AWAY WITH THAT GRAPIX KING WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

On the other hand, I call bs, but what do I know? :P

Blabadon

What is that gif from?

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] It's called optimisation something not much used in the PC world. In the PC world you just upgrade the hardware to boost the graphics. In the console world you've gotta learn how to cut the right corners.juno84

Except most of the devs doing the 'optimizing' are ex-PC devs...

Anyhow, I really don't think game opimization is coding gymnastics as much as it is content trimming. Does the level run like garbage? Simplify the tree and foilage geometry on outlying areas. Still runs like garbage? Remove some trees and foliage. Still garbage? Reduce the number of enemies. Reduce draw distance. Reduce the resolution. Reduce texture resolutions. Remove lighting sources and so on until the bloody level works.

Throw a greasy blur filter over the whole thing and then talk about how your game is close to maxing out a system. Sure, there are coding optimizations, but I doubt it's anywhere to the extent people on these boards seem to think it is. I guess "Using the lowest quality assets to achieve the appearance of high image quality" doesn't sound as good as optimization.

Also when your building systems this big its easy to get one subsystem to be completely bloated, become redundant, or just use too much resources to get something done, when you first make something you make it to work not work efficiently, its not like all these people are senior level software engineers, and might not right code that is really smart. eventually older parts have to be touched, reworked, and work more effectively with new changes.

the quality of graphics ur geeting on 5 year old machines are amazing. you would need a pc with a 280gtx and 2gig ram to equal it lol

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

It's not a random picture, I took it myself.

I trust DF, but perhaps they were refering to the beta or got there notion of it. I can link you to those particular screen shots that were taken on the same video in motion.

Obviously there's been a lot of improvement. And jags are far less noticeable on the retail build then generally in the beta.

Not to mention Epic updated UE specifically for FXAA shortly after the Gears of war 3 beta.

Also note that attempting to make your argument more realible by saying "hahaha" or attempting to laugh via text on the internet makes you look like an imbecile. I wouldn't suggust it.

I don't see hardly any jaggies so they did an amazing job if there is no AA....it's a gorgeous game

the quality of graphics ur geeting on 5 year old machines are amazing. you would need a pc with a 280gtx and 2gig ram to equal it lol

the quality of graphics ur geeting on 5 year old machines are amazing. you would need a pc with a 280gtx and 2gig ram to equal it lol

Bladex2k

[QUOTE="noob-saibot2010"]

when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

It's called optimisation something not much used in the PC world. In the PC world you just upgrade the hardware to boost the graphics. In the console world you've gotta learn how to cut the right corners.CwlHeddwyn

I think you should read up on deferred rendering and AA. 'A less emotional perspective on topics such as this would'nt hurt you and your credibility either.

[QUOTE="da_illest101"]

when you think about it, it's not very impressive to say that you can't max out a 5 or 6 year old console, and i'm not even a pc gamer

noob-saibot2010

technology developes I guess.so 360 and ps3 are still able to impress us.when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.it's all about technology IMO.

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"][QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

I think you should read up on deferred rendering and AA. 'A less emotional perspective on topics such as this would'nt hurt you and your credibility either.

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

if you'd actually read the Digitalfoundry link I posted above ^, you'd know for sure that Gears 3 have ZERO AA, yes Retail Final Build. bullshots are bullshots

rich-sac

Right, because there blatent words with no evidence what so ever prove so. Especially when there not developers for the game.

Regardless, I have pictures; and you can clearly see the improvement. Do you honestly think those are bull shots?

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] well the tech is ancient in the HD Twins deferred rendering eats up memory bandwidth in systems that don't have much to start off with plus of course we are talking about pre- DirectX10 hardware, which itself was designed with deferred rendering and AA in mind. godzillavskong

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

Right, because there blatent words with no evidence what so ever prove so. Especially when there not developers for the game.

Regardless, I have pictures; and you can clearly see the improvement. Do you honestly think those are bull shots?

Diviniuz

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

I haven't been on for weeks since a couple days ago. How have I been making 50 accounts. And Darkener is a huge picture host for Gears of war 3.

HOPEFULLY the nexgens will have 2 gig ram and 470gtx or equivilent card with a 6 core amd or intel cpu man they are gona be killer with those specs lolBladex2k

The hidden power of the consoles emerges again? Think it's disheartening it's 2011 and people still play in 720 at barely 30 fps. And there's years of the same more to come. I guess the "Consoles have hidden power and are constantly evolving" is something console only owners can cling too.. GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]The hidden power of the consoles emerges again? Think it's disheartening it's 2011 and people still play in 720 at barely 30 fps. And there's years of the same more to come. I guess the "Consoles have hidden power and are constantly evolving" is something console only owners can cling too.. PSP107

Wonder how much he gets paid to spread this kind of information. Yeah, just keep riding on that 6 year old hardware, while the rest of the PC world just keeps blasting by you making your 360 look like a yugo.

[QUOTE="Diviniuz"][QUOTE="rich-sac"]

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

Bretter2200

I haven't been on for weeks since a couple days ago. How have I been making 50 accounts. And Darkener is a huge picture host for Gears of war 3.

I love how people are like "THERES NO AA DEEERP YOU XBOT!!" and yet most games that have come out this gen have little to no AA which goes for the vast majority of PS3 games. Lol you cows crack me up.AiurProtoss

If a fanboy says a game has no AA, an in fact the game has no AA, isn't it still a fact that the game has no AA.

[QUOTE="rich-sac"][QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

It's not a random picture, I took it myself.

I trust DF, but perhaps they were refering to the beta or got there notion of it. I can link you to those particular screen shots that were taken on the same video in motion.

Obviously there's been a lot of improvement. And jags are far less noticeable on the retail build then generally in the beta.

Not to mention Epic updated UE specifically for FXAA shortly after the Gears of war 3 beta.

Also note that attempting to make your argument more realible by saying "hahaha" or attempting to laugh via text on the internet makes you look like an imbecile. I wouldn't suggust it.

Dang, I didn't know you were part of the Gears of war 3 development team. Alright, I'll take your word for it, because obviously you're a developer for Gears of war 3.

I mean, it's perfectly normal for jags to dissapear without the inclusion of A.A.

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="slaves"]

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

slaves

pfftt super saiyan is nothin when your up against and

LOL You are correct my friend but I don't think any console has ascended this far yet.

[QUOTE="slaves"]

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

pfftt super saiyan is nothin when your up against and

kickass1337

LOL You are correct my friend but I don't think any console has ascended this far yet.

A weakling :P

yeah, I'd rather trust 2 high class developers like Cliffy B and John Carmack than the GS forum community

yeah, I'd rather trust 2 high class developers like Cliffy B and John Carmack than the GS forum community

OB-47

Cliffy B is sort of a fanboy too... you shouldn't take what he says too seriously. There is no more "hidden power" in consoles... tricks where you can save processing power to alocate elsewhere? sure... but this gen wont see anything ground-breaking.

lol at all the people on here basically calling cliffy B a liar, how many of you are game developers? how many of you have actually developed a game on the 360? none of you, i will take his word as a developer over all the people on her who think they know better but really don't, getting a bit sick of the armchair developers in this forum,loldelta3074

We may not be developers, but any of us can identify BS when it's there. 360 isn't maxed out? Explain why they cut FXAA even though they had it working.

[QUOTE="delta3074"]lol at all the people on here basically calling cliffy B a liar, how many of you are game developers? how many of you have actually developed a game on the 360? none of you, i will take his word as a developer over all the people on her who think they know better but really don't, getting a bit sick of the armchair developers in this forum,lolChubbyGuy40

We may not be developers, but any of us can identify BS when it's there. 360 isn't maxed out? Explain why they cut FXAA even though they had it working.

What's with this bull this week. First, there was Sony that stated that they don't want 3DS to fail, then the MW3 devs stated that they don't care about sales, now Cliffy B thinks he can 'max out' a 6 year piece of hardware from the stone age. It's ben over half a decade now, developers have gotten accustomed to this old system and its potential is fully realised.

What's with this bull this week. First, there was Sony that stated that they don't want 3DS to fail, then the MW3 devs stated that they don't care about sales, now Cliffy B thinks he can 'max out' a 6 year piece of hardware from the stone age. It's ben over half a decade now, developers have gotten accustomed to this old system and its potential is fully realised.

Lucianu

I think Cliffy B has the possibility of being correct. Gears of war 3 does look nice compared to other titles out there.. I think the reasons why we really aren't seeing is because exclusives are so low these days.Santesyu

You can cut a lot of corners to add more to the code, but that means they would also make more sacrificies to be at a stable framerate. A game could be more advanced in some ways than Gear of War 3 at 10 frames per second and a resolution such as Alan Wake's. But that's up to the devs, they have a choice if they want to take advantage of the hardware or not, and it also depends of their experience with the hardware at hand.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]lol at all the people on here basically calling cliffy B a liar, how many of you are game developers? how many of you have actually developed a game on the 360? none of you, i will take his word as a developer over all the people on her who think they know better but really don't, getting a bit sick of the armchair developers in this forum,loldelta3074

We may not be developers, but any of us can identify BS when it's there. 360 isn't maxed out? Explain why they cut FXAA even though they had it working.

That doesnt stop Pc games from having AA. The would have put it in if they could. I agree Gears3 looks fantastic, but lets be real here.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

We may not be developers, but any of us can identify BS when it's there. 360 isn't maxed out? Explain why they cut FXAA even though they had it working.

Advid-Gamer

That doesnt stop Pc games from having AA. The would have put it in if they could. I agree Gears3 looks fantastic, but lets be real here.

The reason you believe there's A.A, is because there's A.A!

Oh ffs. Are they going to repeat that line till 2020?

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

15strong

PS2 can be improved upon but the improvements would be so miniscule that it is not worth it. Every console can be improved upon.

The reason is cus the disk space is allways full. Can't wait to see crysis on demand.

Ya know everyone says "lol"

but im gonna ride the train on this one.

I believe cliffyB. I know most of us here probably don't develop games for it. So why laugh at him?

they said this like 100 times with 360/ps3

they were maxed years ago

Gears 3 was able to pull off higher res textures because it didnt have MSAA like Gears 2, so enjoy your jaggies

Gears 3 also has a much worse framerate and uses blur to cover it up

optimization!