COD4 dev blown away by PC piracy

sad

if devs stop making games for pc ,mac will win it

dulgn_ps

its mac that people only pirate games, and windows, boot camp is a mac pirater's haven.

Anyone who just focuses on "PCs" with piracy is misinformed at best, and truly ignorant at worst. What's on your iPod - do you own every piece of music (legally - have bought a copy on iTunes or the CD in store, or otherwise legally own the license) on your music player? Do your friends? Honestly

The DS and PSP have massive piracy - "hacked" DS and PSPs are so common that I've seen college girls on campus (with no technical knowledge) whip out a DS loaded with pirated software. Those PSP "emulators" you hear about? Everyone's playing legal games right? No one is stealing old SNES games or anything, right?

What about consoles? Are special hardware mods, or even a variety of non-invasive "piracy techniques" (which I cannot detail here, but are even easier than PC cracking) that uncommon? Really? I've run into more modded Xboxs than I've seen unmodded ones. I've seen casual gamers break out a modified PS2 or PS1 - and they weren't just playing imports (cough).

So let's get real - this "piracy" issue you discuess is universal, it's not just the PC platform that's facing the issue. You want reality time? You can't play online without a legitimate copy of a game on a PC - cracked games don't work online. Hence, PC (with its heavy focus on online) has become one of the leading platforms in managing DRM and security - it's honestly consoles that are the furthest behind, where a simple procedure universally "unlocks" the hardware - whereas on a PC the security of software is left up to the game maker.

-

So I say, not that piracy does not exist, but that to say "it's the PC only" or "it's a bigger problem on the PC than any other platform" is utterly bogus. If there's more stolen material on PCs, it's only because a billion people in the world own PCs who are downloading all kinds of pirated content each day - anyone who views consoles or handheld as some "piracy resistant" mecca is simply misinformed. I wish it weren't that way - I buy all of my games new to ensure my favorite developers are getting paid, but at the end of the day software theft has become a very real problem for allof gaming.

Anyone who just focuses on "PCs" with piracy is misinformed at best, and truly ignorant at worst. What's on your iPod - do you own every piece of music (legally - have bought a copy on iTunes or the CD in store, or otherwise legally own the license) on your music player? Do your friends? Honestly

The DS and PSP have massive piracy - "hacked" DS and PSPs are so common that I've seen college girls on campus (with no technical knowledge) whip out a DS loaded with pirated software. Those PSP "emulators" you hear about? Everyone's playing legal games right? No one is stealing old SNES games or anything, right?

What about consoles? Are special hardware mods, or even a variety of non-invasive "piracy techniques" (which I cannot detail here, but are even easier than PC cracking) that uncommon? Really? I've run into more modded Xboxs than I've seen unmodded ones. I've seen casual gamers break out a modified PS2 or PS1 - and they weren't just playing imports (cough).

So let's get real - this "piracy" issue you discuess is universal, it's not just the PC platform that's facing the issue. You want reality time? You can't play online without a legitimate copy of a game on a PC - cracked games don't work online. Hence, PC (with its heavy focus on online) has become one of the leading platforms in managing DRM and security - it's honestly consoles that are the furthest behind, where a simple procedure universally "unlocks" the hardware - whereas on a PC the security of software is left up to the game maker.

-

So I say, not that piracy does not exist, but that to say "it's the PC only" or "it's a bigger problem on the PC than any other platform" is utterly bogus. If there's more stolen material on PCs, it's only because a billion people in the world own PCs who are downloading all kinds of pirated content each day - anyone who views consoles or handheld as some "piracy resistant" mecca is simply misinformed. I wish it weren't that way - I buy all of my games new to ensure my favorite developers are getting paid, but at the end of the day software theft has become a very real problem for allof gaming.

subrosian

There are alot of places that MOD consoles and sell copied games. Linking this to the PC alone is just showing how ignorant people can be. I'm not referring to you I acutally agree with you.

Yeah sure, i dont put much validity in this guy's blog who fails to not only give the numbers but also doesn't disclose his sources. Piracy is a scape goat developers use when their games are horrible. COD4 is selling perfectly fine.Vandalvideo

""Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," Hollenshead said, noting that the current project Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is being scheduled for release on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Hollenshead's rationale is that console piracy is, by a large factor, minimal relative to the rampant PC piracy."

...

"PC Gaming is really falling apart. It killed us to make Unreal Tournament 3 cross-platform, but Epic had to do it to [recap its investment in the production costs]."

Let me guess, this is again an excuse because they want to make more money ? Or maybe... just maybe, piracy on PC is a bigger problem than you think ?

except not everyone can figure out how to crack steam, its much harderimprezawrx500

Not that it matters. Someone always figures out a way around copy protection and it has a trickle down effect because of the many cracking and scene release groups out there.

Just saying Steam has been no exception. Obviously you can't crack things like master server CD-key validation checks, but that's the case with any online game nowadays..not just Steam-based ones.

This leads me to believe that CoD4 dev is talking out of his ass. I'd like to know the source of these supposed "figures." I highly doubt they're letting clients with invalid CD-keys connect to the master server and join games.

""Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," Hollenshead said, noting that the current project Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is being scheduled for release on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Hollenshead's rationale is that console piracy is, by a large factor, minimal relative to the rampant PC piracy."

Forza_2

Yeah...it's not like every other damn ID game wasn't PC exclusive.

I mean...like Doom3...ugh...or Quake3...erm...Quake2...Quake1? ...wait...I know...Doom...nope..Wolfenstein 3D? Arg.... Ahh...found one....1991's Catacombs was PC only..ye

steam fixes pirating problems, steam will be the xbox live of pc gamesRiki101

You can still pirate through steam, though it may be much harder.

So, Epic and Id make terrible games ?

""Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," Hollenshead said, noting that the current project Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is being scheduled for release on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Hollenshead's rationale is that console piracy is, by a large factor, minimal relative to the rampant PC piracy."

...

"PC Gaming is really falling apart. It killed us to make Unreal Tournament 3 cross-platform, but Epic had to do it to [recap its investment in the production costs]."

Let me guess, this is again an excuse because they want to make more money ? Or maybe... just maybe, piracy on PC is a bigger problem than you think ?

Forza_2

Both Quake Wars and UT3 get most of their purchases on PC from the online gaming community. You can't play online without a retail copy of the game. If you pirate it, you're missing 95% of both games.

Also, try finding quotes from dev team members that actually matter. Hollenshead is a CEO. Mike Capps is the President of Epic Games. NEITHER of them actually work on games.

[QUOTE="Forza_2"]

""Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," Hollenshead said, noting that the current project Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is being scheduled for release on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Hollenshead's rationale is that console piracy is, by a large factor, minimal relative to the rampant PC piracy."

AdrianWerner

Yeah...it's not like every other damn ID game was or anythingmultiplatform :)

Every ID game has been multiplatform as far as I can tell....

and regarding Epic...Its funny to see them cry so much over UT3 being multiplatform...when the original UT was also.

Please... who doesn't want to make more money + it's easy since it's the same game ( so you don't need to add anything new to the game or make it better )Bebi_vegeta

I do believe that even if the piracy was low for their games, they would still make them for consoles eventually for profits. But, I also believe that they are not lying about piracy hurting their games.

I sometimes play pirated games on my PC, it's wrong but its so damn easy to do that it makes you wonder if their actually doing it on purpose. I think thats the death of PC gaming right there, the ease of piracy. The time of PC exclusives is over.... so sorry hermits!! I_Helios_I

Why does it have more exclusives than every other system?

But, I also believe that they are not lying about piracy hurting their games. Forza_2

Nobody said they were. They're making a bigger deal out of it than they should, though. PC games sell fine. And the developers don't have to pay all those pesky royalties and licensing fees like they do with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo.

Also, try finding quotes from dev team members that actually matter. Hollenshead is a CEO. Mike Capps is the President of Epic Games. NEITHER of them actually work on games.Velocitas8

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Please... who doesn't want to make more money + it's easy since it's the same game ( so you don't need to add anything new to the game or make it better )Forza_2

I do believe that even if the piracy was low for their games, they would still make them for consoles eventually for profits. But, I also believe that they are not lying about piracy hurting their games.

hardly anyone plays UT3, even on cracked servers. So in this case I doubt piracy had much to do with the game flopping.

They're making a bigger deal out of it than they should, though. Velocitas8

Anyone who just focuses on "PCs" with piracy is misinformed at best, and truly ignorant at worst. What's on your iPod - do you own every piece of music (legally - have bought a copy on iTunes or the CD in store, or otherwise legally own the license) on your music player? Do your friends? Honestly

The DS and PSP have massive piracy - "hacked" DS and PSPs are so common that I've seen college girls on campus (with no technical knowledge) whip out a DS loaded with pirated software. Those PSP "emulators" you hear about? Everyone's playing legal games right? No one is stealing old SNES games or anything, right?

What about consoles? Are special hardware mods, or even a variety of non-invasive "piracy techniques" (which I cannot detail here, but are even easier than PC cracking) that uncommon? Really? I've run into more modded Xboxs than I've seen unmodded ones. I've seen casual gamers break out a modified PS2 or PS1 - and they weren't just playing imports (cough).

So let's get real - this "piracy" issue you discuess is universal, it's not just the PC platform that's facing the issue. You want reality time? You can't play online without a legitimate copy of a game on a PC - cracked games don't work online. Hence, PC (with its heavy focus on online) has become one of the leading platforms in managing DRM and security - it's honestly consoles that are the furthest behind, where a simple procedure universally "unlocks" the hardware - whereas on a PC the security of software is left up to the game maker.

-

So I say, not that piracy does not exist, but that to say "it's the PC only" or "it's a bigger problem on the PC than any other platform" is utterly bogus. If there's more stolen material on PCs, it's only because a billion people in the world own PCs who are downloading all kinds of pirated content each day - anyone who views consoles or handheld as some "piracy resistant" mecca is simply misinformed. I wish it weren't that way - I buy all of my games new to ensure my favorite developers are getting paid, but at the end of the day software theft has become a very real problem for allof gaming.

subrosian

Good post. The problem will only grow as consoles attempt to make themselves more functional.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Please... who doesn't want to make more money + it's easy since it's the same game ( so you don't need to add anything new to the game or make it better )Forza_2

I do believe that even if the piracy was low for their games, they would still make them for consoles eventually for profits. But, I also believe that they are not lying about piracy hurting their games.

Piracy is done on every system... so your point is?

I sometimes play pirated games on my PC, it's wrong but its so damn easy to do that it makes you wonder if their actually doing it on purpose. I think thats the death of PC gaming right there, the ease of piracy. The time of PC exclusives is over.... so sorry hermits!! I_Helios_I

Try and play online now with thoses games.

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]They're making a bigger deal out of it than they should, though. Forza_2

Because they're acting as if PC gaming is suddenly dying..when in fact it's been growing over the past few years :| (Especially with digital distribution and Steam.)

It just isn't as mainstream as consoles in The States.

Piracy is done on every system... so your point is?Bebi_vegeta

:|

Because they're acting as if PC gaming is suddenly dying..when in fact it's been growing over the past few years :|Velocitas8

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Piracy is done on every system... so your point is?Forza_2

:|

ok?... I guess you just learned something.:|

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]Because they're acting as if PC gaming is suddenly dying..when in fact it's been growing over the past few years :|Forza_2

I doubt they themselves know. Which is why I never claimed I did. :|

Obviously piracy damages sales and lowers potential profits. But they're implying that piracy is killing PC gaming, when it's obvious that isn't true.

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]Because they're acting as if PC gaming is suddenly dying..when in fact it's been growing over the past few years :|Forza_2

Not to be callous, but companies like Epid and ID which put a large emphasis on online with their software should be able to protect themselves the best. Unreal Tournament is very, very difficult to pirate compared to say, the Witcher.

Yet Epis are the most vocal about it all.

The really vulnerable developers are the single player affairs, RPGs, Simulators, adventures, strategies. Yet I hardly ever hear these guys complaining.

That's not to say there isn't a problem.

Obviously piracy damages sales and lowers potential profits. But they're implying that piracy is killing PC gaming, when it's obvious that isn't true.Velocitas8

The really vulnerable developers are the single player affairs, RPGs, Simulators, adventures, strategies. Yet I hardly ever hear these guys complaining.Danm_999

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]The really vulnerable developers are the single player affairs, RPGs, Simulators, adventures, strategies. Yet I hardly ever hear these guys complaining.Forza_2

It's more likely it's because they are PC-only devs. While Epic and ID are (at least partialy) usingpiracy as excuse for going multiplat, they think it won't anger their communities this way.

It's more likely it's because they are PC-only devs. While Epic and ID are (at least partialy) usingpiracy as excuse for going multiplat, they think it won't anger their communities this way.AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]It's more likely it's because they are PC-only devs. While Epic and ID are (at least partialy) usingpiracy as excuse for going multiplat, they think it won't anger their communities this way.Forza_2

Previously they made their games for PC first and only later ported them to consoles. Now they're going multiplat and consolizing their games.

Ask yourself... ID and Epic games have been pirated heavily since forever why are they suddenly complaining now? Exacly around the time they're moving into multiplat development.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]The really vulnerable developers are the single player affairs, RPGs, Simulators, adventures, strategies. Yet I hardly ever hear these guys complaining.Forza_2

Eh?..Harder in what way? Developers of online-capable games don't really have any advantages in projecting the number of times their games are pirated. I guess they could track the number of IP addresses denied online game connection due to an invalid CD key. Obviously that'd be a rather small sample to project with in most cases..

Simply taking a look at average tracker downloads would be a much better method..and that works for non-online games as well.

Even if that weren't the case, it still doesn't give devs like Epic any more reason complain when smaller devs of singleplayer games that take a much harder hit from piracy haven't said a damn thing.

theres no way of safely releases game the pirater has every way to get around it.

they can make valve games run without steam, crack cd verfications, theres no way around. they could release a patch but it a few days it would be cracked. the only way of keeping it pirate free is due the thing mmos due.pay to play.

Developer forced to abandon game over piracy

Ask yourself... ID and Epic games have been pirated heavily since forever why are they suddenly complaining now? Exacly around the time they're moving into multiplat development.AdrianWerner

steam fixes pirating problems, steam will be the xbox live of pc gamesRiki101

theres no way of safely releases game the pirater has every way to get around it.

they can make valve games run without steam, crack cd verfications, theres no way around. they could release a patch but it a few days it would be cracked. the only way of keeping it pirate free is due the thing mmos due.pay to play.

Crusher89

This is a shame... its sorry to see this, especially for the small companys making games.

I think with music people can check a song or two to see if the album is worth buying in stores, i dont see a problem with that. but with PC games its people stealing the whole game and thats wrong. Some companys are able to make games UNPLAYABLE online, i think all companys should do this. Games like Diablo2 where you need to buy the game to play online, along with other games.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Ask yourself... ID and Epic games have been pirated heavily since forever why are they suddenly complaining now? Exacly around the time they're moving into multiplat development.Forza_2

Not likely, consideringDoom3 PC sold more than any previous ID game.And Doom1 was pirated like crazy, I honestly didn't know even one person who bought Doom legaly

The real problem isn't piracy, but dev costs. For huge companies like Epic or ID they got insanely high and PCgaming just can't support it fully. Most PC devs are preety small and operating on medium budget (the reason why majority of them can't even try moving to consoles), but some are so big they absolutely need console market. PC market alone can't support many $15mln+ games made by teams of 50-80 people, just like console market can't support devs who make games in 20 peoples teams with 2-3mln $s. That's whythe largest PC devs go multiplad, while smaller devs are having the best time ever now on PC (especialy since as CoD4 and UT3 have shown, mulitplat, consolized games sell worse on PC than their PC-only predecessors, so now that the big guys influence in pcgaming is vanishing there's more place to breat for smaller devs)

Here is another one.

Developer forced to abandon game over piracy

Forza_2

I honestly don't know what happened here. Either their threw awful lot of money in licensing or SEGA just had to big expectations wanting FootballManager-like sales. Because there are about 5 developers making this kind of games right now (not just one, each has multiple games of this type) and they're all doing well financialy, despite having much less popular licenses than Eastside Manger had.

This is a shame... its sorry to see this, especially for the small companys making games.

kozzy1234

Actualy smaller companies are doing fine, it's only the big ones that seem to have troubles.

Not likely, consideringDoom3 PC sold more than any previous ID game.And Doom1 was pirated like crazy, I honestly didn't know even one person who bought Doom legalyAdrianWerner

Also, where did you get the sales numbers for the Doom series ?

Yeah sure, i dont put much validity in this guy's blog who fails to not only give the numbers but also doesn't disclose his sources. Piracy is a scape goat developers use when their games are horrible. COD4 is selling perfectly fine.Vandalvideo

Finally some logic..

I honestly don't know what happened here. AdrianWerner

Maybe piracy hurts developers more than you think. Did you ever consider that for one second ?

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Ask yourself... ID and Epic games have been pirated heavily since forever why are they suddenly complaining now? Exacly around the time they're moving into multiplat development.Forza_2

Epic got a taste of market supremacy with Gears of War, it was only natural that they expected thier main franchise to do even better .............. but they were wrong, not only did it cripple its advantage in the PC community, the PS3 community isnt exactly the palce to make sales, and well ... by the time the 360 version is released ... im sure CoD4 / Halo 3 has already set in for most FPS gamers.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Not likely, consideringDoom3 PC sold more than any previous ID game.And Doom1 was pirated like crazy, I honestly didn't know even one person who bought Doom legalyForza_2

Also, where did you get the sales numbers for the Doom series ?

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Sales-for Doom 1 and 2



and Doom3

http://www.shacknews.com/docs/press/010710_id_carmack_emmys.x

"id's most recent internally developed title, DOOM 3�, extends a proven track record with over 3.5 million units sold and is id's most successful game to date."



and yeah...profits matter, but profits are also dropping for console games (they cost now up to ten times more to make and advertise than 5 years ago and they aren't selling ten times better). But this is it, the problem are dev costs, not piracy