Console power - the truth

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xX0LDSCH00LXx

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#51 xX0LDSCH00LXx
Member since 2007 • 1423 Posts
[QUOTE="Plagueless"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Plagueless"] Your point that PS3 is more powerful is pure theory. Yes, the Cell should have potential to be better, but reality is that multiplat devs dont see the point in making the PS3 version look better when the 360 version is the better seller ofthe two. Also, the GPU in the 360 is not the same as the ps3's: the 360 uses unifed shader architecture for textures and vertex, while ps3 has dedicated shaders fo those purposes. In short, that means the 360 can use more power for textures or vertex when needed unlike the Ps3. Its kinda funny because the 360 does the same thing with its gpu that the ps3 does with the cell: rerouting power.

The 360 may be better tapped-out due to being a more efficient design but it's not more powerful. The reason why the graphics don't look much better on the PS3 is simply that it's GPU is nothing special and the GPU just happens to be more important for the graphics. But in raw power the PS3 is undoubtly more powerful.

Raw power equals Memory (Ram) CPU, and GPU. 360 wins two of those catagories but not by much. How is PS3 more powerful again? The 360 and PS3 are called the HD twins for a reason. They are probably the most alike consoles (in terms of power) in recent memory. Sorry, but until I see an exclusive PS3 game that absolutley blows Crysis 2 and Gears 3 out of the water, your argument is purely guesswork. In theory the PS3's cell should more than make up for its outdated memory and GPU, but as I said before there has not been a game that sets a graphical benchmark that the 360 couldn't reach. Cows have been saying that the ps3 has better graphics and more power for half a decade and its still not reality.

I'm definately no expert with tech but from what i do know the Cell can NOT make up for lack of ram it's just silly even to think that any cpu can do this, and it can only help a little with certain gpu tasks. This is just basic knowledge that I've gathered over the past few years from sites like Beond3D and Anandtech etc..
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delta3074

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#52 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

Wii is more powerful than Xbox, GameCube and PS2. It's basically a enhanced GameCube which already was comparable to Xbox in graphics if well used and the Wii is better than it. If many Wii games look on-par or even worse than PS2 titles does not negate it's power.

3DS is more powerful than PSP and way more powerful than the DSi/XL. While concrete specs may be sparse, from all the information I gather it has two CPUs which combined are faster than PSP's, a graphics chip that has way better shading capabilites than the PSP and much more total RAM. If many games don't show that due to rendering two pictures for the 3D effect does not negate it's power.

As for unreleased consoles: Vita will, from all I gather, be way more powerful than the 3DS and not really competition for it while Wii-U will be considerably more powerful than the HD twins and way more powerful than Wii.

So there you have it. Objection is not possible :P

nameless12345
the RSX gpu in the Ps3 is not on par with the xenos in the 360 FACT, the xenos was ahead of it's time when the 360 released, the gimped 7900 in the Ps3 was already obsolete, the xenos was the first GPU to use unified shader architecture and unlike the RSX can support DX10 subroutines, the fact that the xenos canrender nearly twice as many polygons a second as the RSX makes them far from being equal,it has a lot of other features that the RSX is lacking as well, for instance the RSX has no tesselator API and can't even do texture culling.
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delta3074

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#53 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts
[QUOTE="xX0LDSCH00LXx"][QUOTE="Plagueless"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

The 360 may be better tapped-out due to being a more efficient design but it's not more powerful. The reason why the graphics don't look much better on the PS3 is simply that it's GPU is nothing special and the GPU just happens to be more important for the graphics. But in raw power the PS3 is undoubtly more powerful.

Raw power equals Memory (Ram) CPU, and GPU. 360 wins two of those catagories but not by much. How is PS3 more powerful again? The 360 and PS3 are called the HD twins for a reason. They are probably the most alike consoles (in terms of power) in recent memory. Sorry, but until I see an exclusive PS3 game that absolutley blows Crysis 2 and Gears 3 out of the water, your argument is purely guesswork. In theory the PS3's cell should more than make up for its outdated memory and GPU, but as I said before there has not been a game that sets a graphical benchmark that the 360 couldn't reach. Cows have been saying that the ps3 has better graphics and more power for half a decade and its still not reality.

I'm definately no expert with tech but from what i do know the Cell can NOT make up for lack of ram it's just silly even to think that any cpu can do this, and it can only help a little with certain gpu tasks. This is just basic knowledge that I've gathered over the past few years from sites like Beond3D and Anandtech etc..

you are right because everything the CPU or GPU does in ANY harware requires RAM resources to do it, the only way the CPU could make up for lack of RAM is if it did tings wothout using RAM resourses which quite frankly is impossible, it's like a CAR imagine the CPU or GPU is like the car engine and the RAM is the fuel that drives that, as it stands the 360 has more memory due to it's extra 10MB of Edram plus the fact that it has a lower OS footprint which gives developers roughly an extra 32mb of RAM to work with, add to that the fact that the xenos uses unified shader architecture which uses less recourses for shading and you find that the 360 has a clear advantage in useable RAM.
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Funconsole

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#55 Funconsole
Member since 2009 • 3223 Posts
Actually, objection is. The people who know, ya know, the developers, have said the ps3 and 360 are even.dotWithShoes

PS3 and 360 are exactly the same.

Fizzman
These. Unless you are some amazing developer we've never heard of, I trust developers words than some random guy on a forum
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Khoo1992

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#56 Khoo1992
Member since 2005 • 2472 Posts

PS3 might have a very powerful CPU, but the weak GPU is stopping everything.

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aleuni

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#57 aleuni
Member since 2010 • 87 Posts

When the most famous programmer on the earth was asked about 360/PS3 differences couple days ago he answered...

Q : "Why You Think X360 More PowerFull Than Ps3 But The Ps3 Have 1 Core And 7 Spu And Have 50 Giga Disk And Have Rsx Why ?" (yea...I know,who could ask such a question :lol: )

A : "@AhmedElblassy ps3 has more raw CPU power, but 360 has more GPU, avail memory, and is easier to develop for."

Than other guy asked this...

Q : "@ID_AA_Carmack and how the firsts SONY get the best graphics on the PS3 (Uncharted 3, Killzone 3, GOW3)?? XB360 has nothing like this game"

A : "@Desmio thedifferences between the PS3 and 360 are modest enough that differences between developers is a much larger factor. "

Well...there you have it folks!That wraps it up :P

http://twitter.com/#!/ID_AA_Carmack

Bus-A-Bus

what do you have to say, TC?

and no, the ps3 gpu is NOT on par of the 360's.

come back when you'll know more than someone like Carmack.

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MonsieurX

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#58 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39858 Posts
Consoles...always fighting for the 2nd place I see
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planbfreak4eva

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#59 planbfreak4eva
Member since 2006 • 2856 Posts

90 percent look better because its the devs who make games. if they are almost identical they are happy. and usually they start working on 360 version and the porting to ps3..thats why...we human beings are all lazy sometimes...

and uc2 is the best looking gaming till now. some might say kz3 or gow3 but guess what. they all look better than the 360s exclusives. if you say 360s best looking game is a multiplat then 360 really got some bad unmotivated devs...

uc2>any 360 game in graphics department. and now uc3 will be the best. and guess what. ps3 was released a year later so the power speaks for itself. it took 360 2 years to do what sony achieved in 1... now that is the truth

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sami117

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#60 sami117
Member since 2008 • 650 Posts

[QUOTE="MozartXVI"]

1. most multiplats are better on the 360

2. crysis 2 on the 360 is the current graphics king

3. carmack stated that the two consoles are pretty much equal in power

4. sorry to break it to you, but there's no hidden untapped power within the cell. :(

nameless12345

1. means nothing really. The PS3 is as good as the effort the devs are willing to put into. Compare GTA IV and Uncharted 2 on the PS3 and you'll see a massive difference.

There completly equal...

2. if you mean console graphics king, that could be so but graphics are subjective anyway.

NO Aesthetics are subjective... (compare pc and xbox 360 in this 1080p is technically better than 720p...)

3. they are comparable but by no means equal.

There 100% equal, the weak cell is more powerful than the weak 360 cpu, and the xbox gpu is better than the ps3 gpu.

4. it's not about "hidden untapped power", it's about how the devs use it's advantages.

THeir is NO untapped power....

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04dcarraher

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#61 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23859 Posts
The 360 has a stronger gpu(not by much) and as for the cpu it beats the Cell in Million instructions per second wise in performance. the PS3's Cell does not not have unlimited power or devs havent unlocked the theoretical potential. The theoretical processing power is in GFLOPS which usually means all processors work at one item not multiple. Also they can never reach the limit of the Cell because of memory limits in amount and memory bandwidth in the PS3. The core of the Cell the PPE (main cpu) is slower then a pentium 4 and the 360's cpu just rips it a new one. What helps the Cell is the seven SPE's that have more in common with modern shader processors from gpu's then normal cpu's. Each one is assigned a specific job and has that only job unless changed by the game's requirements coded within. If not coded all the time they just sit there and do nothing which what happened with early games and multiplats. By Dev's offloading post processing effects and a few other gpu normal tasks onto the Cell helped to relieve the RSX and allow it to use it abilities somewhere else. Which is why the 360 and PS3 are pretty much equal in graphical abilities , between that both consoles being memory limited in amount and bandwidth neither one cant really out do one another because they are both in the same boat.
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04dcarraher

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#62 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23859 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="MozartXVI"]

1. most multiplats are better on the 360

2. crysis 2 on the 360 is the current graphics king

3. carmack stated that the two consoles are pretty much equal in power

4. sorry to break it to you, but there's no hidden untapped power within the cell. :(

sami117


1. means nothing really. The PS3 is as good as the effort the devs are willing to put into. Compare GTA IV and Uncharted 2 on the PS3 and you'll see a massive difference.

There completly equal...

2. if you mean console graphics king, that could be so but graphics are subjective anyway.

NO Aesthetics are subjective... (compare pc and xbox 360 in this 1080p is technically better than 720p...)

3. they are comparable but by no means equal.

There 100% equal, the weak cell is more powerful than the weak 360 cpu, and the xbox gpu is better than the ps3 gpu.

4. it's not about "hidden untapped power", it's about how the devs use it's advantages.

THeir is NO untapped power....

On that number two point sami117, that is not correct ethier most of the 360 games are in 720 or lower only a few select games that are actaully rendered in true 1080 everything else is upscaled. the 360 nor PS3 didnt even render Crysis 2 in 720.

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GD1551

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#63 GD1551
Member since 2011 • 9645 Posts

PS3 more powerful? Umm, no? Crysis 2, FM4, Gears 3, RDR? More like the same.racing1750

Doesn't C2 run better on the PS3?

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Funconsole

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#64 Funconsole
Member since 2009 • 3223 Posts

On that number two point sami117, that is not correct ethier most of the 360 games are in 720 or lower only a few select games that are actaully render in true 1080 everything else is upscaled.

04dcarraher

Same as the PS3. There's barely any native 1080p games

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delta3074

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#65 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

[QUOTE="sami117"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]


1. means nothing really. The PS3 is as good as the effort the devs are willing to put into. Compare GTA IV and Uncharted 2 on the PS3 and you'll see a massive difference.

There completly equal...

2. if you mean console graphics king, that could be so but graphics are subjective anyway.

NO Aesthetics are subjective... (compare pc and xbox 360 in this 1080p is technically better than 720p...)

3. they are comparable but by no means equal.

There 100% equal, the weak cell is more powerful than the weak 360 cpu, and the xbox gpu is better than the ps3 gpu.

4. it's not about "hidden untapped power", it's about how the devs use it's advantages.

THeir is NO untapped power....

04dcarraher

On that number two point sami117, that is not correct ethier most of the 360 games are in 720 or lower only a few select games that are actaully render in true 1080 everything else is upscaled. the 360 nor PS3 didnt even rendered in 720 for crysis 2

both the 360 and Ps3 have roughly the same amount of Native 1080p games, the difference between the 2 is that ALL games on the 360 can be upscaled to 1080p whereas not all games on the Ps3 can be upscaled to 1080p this is due to the fact that the Ps3 uses software driven upscaling whereas the 360 uses harware driven upscaling which is more effeicient.
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-Snooze-

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#66 -Snooze-
Member since 2009 • 7304 Posts

Carmack said they're equal. I'm not exactly a Rocket-Scientologist, but I'd imagine his opinion (Based on facts we dont know) is far more accurate then Random forum goer #1314

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navyguy21

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#67 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17956 Posts

Carmack said they're equal. I'm not exactly a Rocket-Scientologist, but I'd imagine his opinion (Based on facts we dont know) is far more accurate then Random forum goer #1314

-Snooze-
And Carmack IS actually a rocket scientist :P
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theuncharted34

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#68 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

nameless12345

Nope, you are very wrong.

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-Snooze-

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#69 -Snooze-
Member since 2009 • 7304 Posts

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

Carmack said they're equal. I'm not exactly a Rocket-Scientologist, but I'd imagine his opinion (Based on facts we dont know) is far more accurate then Random forum goer #1314

navyguy21

And Carmack IS actually a rocket scientist :P

But is he a Rocket-Scientologist? I think not good sir.

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tempest91

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#70 tempest91
Member since 2003 • 2411 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

theuncharted34

Nope, you are very wrong.

Yeah, both of those statement are pretty ridiculous. Let's just forget that the "total RAM" he is talking about is shared RAM (which according to sony is not enough to support crossgame chat) and that the GPU's are not equal in the least.

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delta3074

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#71 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

Carmack said they're equal. I'm not exactly a Rocket-Scientologist, but I'd imagine his opinion (Based on facts we dont know) is far more accurate then Random forum goer #1314

-Snooze-

And Carmack IS actually a rocket scientist :P

But is he a Rocket-Scientologist? I think not good sir.

no one is, scientologist is a religeous thing,lol
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theuncharted34

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#72 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

tempest91

Nope, you are very wrong.

Yeah, both of those statement are pretty ridiculous. Let's just forget that the "total RAM" he is talking about is shared RAM (which according to sony is not enough to support crossgame chat) and that the GPU's are not equal in the least.

It's not so much that the RAM in the ps3 is *split*, (as that has some benefits over shared) but more so that the ps3's os uses up more RAM than the 360's os. And yes, the 360's gpu is much stronger. Thankfully the Ps3's Cell evens the two out completely.

I'm actually surprised we are still having these threads, and from a higher level poster at that!

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monkeysmoke

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#73 monkeysmoke
Member since 2010 • 457 Posts
I dont understand why people act as if it only the ps3 that gets worse multiplats but mutiplate games like : 1. Final fantasy xiii 2. Dantes inferno 3. Darksiders 4. Vanquish 5. Ninja gaiden 2 6. Mortal kombat 9 7. Castlevania LOS 8. L.A Noire 9. Bioshock 2 10. PES 2011 all look beter than on the ps3 than 360. Multiplates dont realy show the power of a console because any game can look beter on any system which the devs puts more effort on. PS3's (RSX+CELL+Blueray) is always greater than 360's (XENOS+XENON+DVD) any day :P No exclusive or Multiplates on the XBOX 360 looks close to ps3 exclusives. Yeah killzone 3 looks better Crysis 2. Killzone 3 MLAA(= 8msaa)+locked 30fps+HD Crysis 2 Poor AA(ghosting)+Unstable 30fps+sub HD :( + unnecessasary pop ups. PS3 WINS B) END of DICUSION
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Darth_DuMas

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#74 Darth_DuMas
Member since 2006 • 2687 Posts

Wii is more powerful than Xbox, GameCube and PS2. It's basically a enhanced GameCube which already was comparable to Xbox in graphics if well used and the Wii is better than it. If many Wii games look on-par or even worse than PS2 titles does not negate it's power

So there you have it. Objection is not possible :P

nameless12345

The gamecube did not perform nearly as well as the Xbox, and i've yet to see a Wii game out perform an Xbox game as well.

I've got a Wii and this can be argued till people are blue in the face. I have it's best looking games and they look like something the Xbox could easily handle. Even Xenoblade (I have this too) looks pretty standard.

What is fact is, Nintendo went major cheap ass on the GPU of the Wii. It can't even do AA, it just plain SUCKS.

People say that here and i'll never except it. I could live with Xbox like graphics even now and the Wii doesn't stand up to that.

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adamosmaki

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#75 adamosmaki
Member since 2007 • 10718 Posts
PS3 and 360 are basically even the minor difference comes from Sony's first party devs While the Cpu on PS3 is faster the GPU on 360 is better thanks to the unified shader architecture
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Phazevariance

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#76 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

Wii is more powerful than Xbox, GameCube and PS2. It's basically a enhanced GameCube which already was comparable to Xbox in graphics if well used and the Wii is better than it. If many Wii games look on-par or even worse than PS2 titles does not negate it's power.

3DS is more powerful than PSP and way more powerful than the DSi/XL. While concrete specs may be sparse, from all the information I gather it has two CPUs which combined are faster than PSP's, a graphics chip that has way better shading capabilites than the PSP and much more total RAM. If many games don't show that due to rendering two pictures for the 3D effect does not negate it's power.

As for unreleased consoles: Vita will, from all I gather, be way more powerful than the 3DS and not really competition for it while Wii-U will be considerably more powerful than the HD twins and way more powerful than Wii.

So there you have it. Objection is not possible :P

nameless12345

John Carmack, disagrees with you, and he programs for both consoles. Better CPU on ps3, but ram, and GPu are better for graphics and best on 360. Look it up yourself.

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Golden_Boy187

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#77 Golden_Boy187
Member since 2007 • 787 Posts

gears 3 looks better than anything on PS3.

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Fizzman

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#78 Fizzman
Member since 2003 • 9895 Posts

They are exactly the same in terms of performance.

PS3 is not a super computer. Cell is not some kind of insane monster that can magically give you infinite performance. It's an outdated POS just like the 360. Blu-ray is useless with that slow drive and the fact that 99% of PS3 games require an install.

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Bus-A-Bus

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#79 Bus-A-Bus
Member since 2009 • 5089 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]Because most 3rd party devs are unwilling to explore the PS3's hardware to the fullest and rather make games for the 360 and port them over to the PS3 since it's easier to do so.foxhound_fox
Actually, I remember a third party developer saying it was easier to make their games on the PS3 and port to the 360. I can't remember exactly who it was though.

Everyone of them.Thats why,in last year or so,almost all developers are leading it on PS3 than porting it on 360.Or at least making them at same time(Rockstar,Id,Ubi).DICE lead console platform is PS3.

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planbfreak4eva

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#81 planbfreak4eva
Member since 2006 • 2856 Posts

gears 3 looks better than anything on PS3.

Golden_Boy187
you misspelled uncharted 3
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Bus-A-Bus

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#82 Bus-A-Bus
Member since 2009 • 5089 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

Wii is more powerful than Xbox, GameCube and PS2. It's basically a enhanced GameCube which already was comparable to Xbox in graphics if well used and the Wii is better than it. If many Wii games look on-par or even worse than PS2 titles does not negate it's power.

3DS is more powerful than PSP and way more powerful than the DSi/XL. While concrete specs may be sparse, from all the information I gather it has two CPUs which combined are faster than PSP's, a graphics chip that has way better shading capabilites than the PSP and much more total RAM. If many games don't show that due to rendering two pictures for the 3D effect does not negate it's power.

As for unreleased consoles: Vita will, from all I gather, be way more powerful than the 3DS and not really competition for it while Wii-U will be considerably more powerful than the HD twins and way more powerful than Wii.

So there you have it. Objection is not possible :P

delta3074

the RSX gpu in the Ps3 is not on par with the xenos in the 360 FACT, the xenos was ahead of it's time when the 360 released, the gimped 7900 in the Ps3 was already obsolete, the xenos was the first GPU to use unified shader architecture and unlike the RSX can support DX10 subroutines, the fact that the xenos canrender nearly twice as many polygons a second as the RSX makes them far from being equal,it has a lot of other features that the RSX is lacking as well, for instance the RSX has no tesselator API and can't even do texture culling.

If you would use all ALUs from Xenos just for polygons it would be more like 4-5 times faster on that.In normal situation you will have to do occlusion culling and vertex culling on CELL to help it out(20-30% of CELL time).

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monkeysmoke

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#83 monkeysmoke
Member since 2010 • 457 Posts

gears 3 looks better than anything on PS3.

Golden_Boy187
Errr no Uncharted 3 looks better...........have you seen the desert village multiplayer gameplay vid ?
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Darth_DuMas

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#84 Darth_DuMas
Member since 2006 • 2687 Posts

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Wii is more powerful than Xbox, GameCube and PS2. It's basically a enhanced GameCube which already was comparable to Xbox in graphics if well used and the Wii is better than it. If many Wii games look on-par or even worse than PS2 titles does not negate it's power

So there you have it. Objection is not possible :P

theuncharted34

The gamecube did not perform nearly as well as the Xbox, and i've yet to see a Wii game out perform an Xbox game as well.

I've got a Wii and this can be argued till people are blue in the face. I have it's best looking games and they look like something the Xbox could easily handle. Even Xenoblade (I have this too) looks pretty standard.

What is fact is, Nintendo went major cheap ass on the GPU of the Wii. It can't even do AA, it just plain SUCKS.

People say that here and i'll never except it. I could live with Xbox like graphics even now and the Wii doesn't stand up to that.

Must be nice to live in fantasy land.

If you think the Wii is more capable in terms of graphics you're kidding yourself. Has a better CPU though, i'll give it that.

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ronvalencia

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#85 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

Let me end console power debates once and for all:

PS3 is more powerful than Xbox 360. That's a fact and you can't argue about it. It has a more advanced CPU that's more powerful, the same amount of total RAM (which is faster even) and it's graphics chip is on-par with 360's (Geforce 7800 series is comparable to Radeon X1900 series). Furthermore it has more storage space (blu-ray vs DVD). If it harder to program for or has some issues does not negate it's power.

nameless12345

For today's raster workloads, the RSX/Geforce 7 is an aging GPU.

From Reference link

------------------------

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

On the subject onf calculating RSX/G70's the amount of shader operations per cycle, most estimates (e.g. RSX didn't factored the RSX's/G70's shader topology

The RSX has 24 of these.

As you can see, the front-end will limit the RSX/G70 design i.e. for RSX/G70's pixel shaders, you have 24 pipes. You then have dependencies e.g. FPU2 is dependent on FPU1.

Refer to RSX's design flaw

Read Jawed's post

For example texture fetches in RSX will always be painfully slow in comparison - but how slow depends on the format of the textures.

Also, control flow operations in RSX will be out of bounds because they are impractically slow - whereas in Xenos they'll be the bread and butter of good code because there'll be no performance penalty.

Dependent texture fetches in Xenos (I presume that's what the third point means), will work without interrupting shader code - again RSX simply can't do this, dependent texturing blocks one ALU per pipe

ATI Xenos's approached is this problem by having wider front-end i.e. nearly flat 48 pipelines.

ATI Radeon HD 48X0(RV770)'s approached this problem by having wider front-end.

There are 160 of these units i.e.giving a total of 800 stream processors.

NVIDIA RSX is NOT on par with AMD Xenos.

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theuncharted34

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#86 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

The gamecube did not perform nearly as well as the Xbox, and i've yet to see a Wii game out perform an Xbox game as well.

I've got a Wii and this can be argued till people are blue in the face. I have it's best looking games and they look like something the Xbox could easily handle. Even Xenoblade (I have this too) looks pretty standard.

What is fact is, Nintendo went major cheap ass on the GPU of the Wii. It can't even do AA, it just plain SUCKS.

People say that here and i'll never except it. I could live with Xbox like graphics even now and the Wii doesn't stand up to that.

Darth_DuMas

Must be nice to live in fantasy land.

If you think the Wii is more capable in terms of graphics you're kidding yourself. Has a better CPU though, i'll give it that.

The gamecube was very close to the Xbox, and the Wii is an overclocked gamecube with a little more than twice the RAM.

The Xbox has nothing to compare to Super mario galaxy, DCKR or Monster Hunter Tri. Maybe you should go back and play some Xbox games.

But anyways, this isn't worth talking about as the Wii is just a pitiful piece of hardware in the year 2011. It's not like it's that far ahead of the Xbox tbh.

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xeffectx

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#87 xeffectx
Member since 2004 • 227 Posts

My PC = 100 ps3 and 360 combined !

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04dcarraher

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#88 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23859 Posts

Here

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CwlHeddwyn

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#89 CwlHeddwyn
Member since 2005 • 5314 Posts
CELL is more powerful than the X360 CPU but the RSX GPU in the PS3 is weaker than the R500 in the X360. PS3 has 512MB RAM X360 has 512MB + 10MB EDRAM. Further still the OS that runs the X360 uses 32MB RAM while I forget the exact figure for PS3 but it's at least twice that if not more. To conclude the extra power used by the CELL is focussed on making up for the RSX's shortcomings and the lower amount of RAM available. It ends up as a tie.
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Golden_Boy187

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#90 Golden_Boy187
Member since 2007 • 787 Posts

[QUOTE="Golden_Boy187"]

gears 3 looks better than anything on PS3.

planbfreak4eva

you misspelled uncharted 3

No you just misread Gears 3 looks better than U3

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theuncharted34

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#91 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

Here

04dcarraher

Those charts are very misleading as far as the Playstation Cpu's go.

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Tessellation

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#92 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9297 Posts
Carmack already said xbox 360 has the edge over the ps3 and he is a legend n a developer...so i will take his word over yours and even more knowing he got experience in the field.. what about you?
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Darth_DuMas

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#93 Darth_DuMas
Member since 2006 • 2687 Posts

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

Must be nice to live in fantasy land.

theuncharted34

If you think the Wii is more capable in terms of graphics you're kidding yourself. Has a better CPU though, i'll give it that.

The gamecube was very close to the Xbox, and the Wii is an overclocked gamecube with a little more than twice the RAM.

The Xbox has nothing to compare to Super mario galaxy, DCKR or Monster Hunter Tri. Maybe you should go back and play some Xbox games.

But anyways, this isn't worth talking about as the Wii is just a pitiful piece of hardware in the year 2011. It's not like it's that far ahead of the Xbox tbh.

Ninja Gaiden Black, Halo 2, DoA Ultimate, Project Gothem Racing 1 and 2, Toca Race Driver 2 and 3, Farcry Instincts/Evolution, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Conker Live and Reloaded, Fable The Lost Chapters, Jade Empire, Pro Evo 5 (Still looks better than the Wiis own), Forza 1. Each of these either match or outclass the best the Wii offers.

I have those games apart from monster hunter. Still not as good. Part of it is the lack of AA, really ruins it.

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04dcarraher

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#94 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23859 Posts

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

Here

theuncharted34

Those charts are very misleading as far as the Playstation Cpu's go.

No its correct , the chart is showing MIPS Millions of instructions per second, which is used for normal cpu performance comparison. The Cell or Sony's big numbers is based on theoretical numbers which based one a linear single compute numbers which is GFLOPS Also The Cell can never reach those numbers abecause of memory limits.
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Mozelleple112

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#95 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

1. most multiplats are better on the 360

2. crysis 2 on the 360 is the current graphics king

3. carmack stated that the two consoles are pretty much equal in power

4. sorry to break it to you, but there's no hidden untapped power within the cell. :(

MozartXVI
False. Killzone 3, Uncharted AND God of War 3 looks better than Crysis 2 on 360. Not Crysis 2 PS3 though.
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theuncharted34

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#96 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

If you think the Wii is more capable in terms of graphics you're kidding yourself. Has a better CPU though, i'll give it that.

Darth_DuMas

The gamecube was very close to the Xbox, and the Wii is an overclocked gamecube with a little more than twice the RAM.

The Xbox has nothing to compare to Super mario galaxy, DCKR or Monster Hunter Tri. Maybe you should go back and play some Xbox games.

But anyways, this isn't worth talking about as the Wii is just a pitiful piece of hardware in the year 2011. It's not like it's that far ahead of the Xbox tbh.

Ninja Gaiden Black, Halo 2, DoA Ultimate, Project Gothem Racing 1 and 2, Toca Race Driver 2 and 3, Farcry Instincts/Evolution, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Conker Live and Reloaded, Fable The Lost Chapters, Jade Empire, Pro Evo 5 (Still looks better than the Wiis own). Each of these either match or outclass the best the Wii offers.

I have those games apart from monster hunter. Still not as good. Part of it is the lack of AA, really ruins it.

Like I said, you should probably go back and play them.

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theuncharted34

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#97 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

Here

04dcarraher

Those charts are very misleading as far as the Playstation Cpu's go.

No its correct , the chart is showing MIPS Millions of instructions per second, which is used for normal cpu performance comparison. The Cell or Sony's big numbers is based on theoretical numbers which based one a linear single compute numbers which is GFLOPS Also The Cell can never reach those numbers abecause of memory limits.

But they aren't being used for normal Cpu operations >.> So the chart is pointless. Not to mention it's not taking into account the cell's Spe's or the emotion engine's vector units. Which would be like chopping a Cpu into 4ths :lol:

That is why it's misleading and doesn't mean anything.

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Darth_DuMas

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#98 Darth_DuMas
Member since 2006 • 2687 Posts

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

The gamecube was very close to the Xbox, and the Wii is an overclocked gamecube with a little more than twice the RAM.

The Xbox has nothing to compare to Super mario galaxy, DCKR or Monster Hunter Tri. Maybe you should go back and play some Xbox games.

But anyways, this isn't worth talking about as the Wii is just a pitiful piece of hardware in the year 2011. It's not like it's that far ahead of the Xbox tbh.

theuncharted34

Ninja Gaiden Black, Halo 2, DoA Ultimate, Project Gothem Racing 1 and 2, Toca Race Driver 2 and 3, Farcry Instincts/Evolution, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Conker Live and Reloaded, Fable The Lost Chapters, Jade Empire, Pro Evo 5 (Still looks better than the Wiis own). Each of these either match or outclass the best the Wii offers.

I have those games apart from monster hunter. Still not as good. Part of it is the lack of AA, really ruins it.

Like I said, you should probably go back and play them.

I own both consoles and a ton of games for each.

I am sure.

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theuncharted34

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#99 theuncharted34
Member since 2010 • 14529 Posts

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

Ninja Gaiden Black, Halo 2, DoA Ultimate, Project Gothem Racing 1 and 2, Toca Race Driver 2 and 3, Farcry Instincts/Evolution, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Conker Live and Reloaded, Fable The Lost Chapters, Jade Empire, Pro Evo 5 (Still looks better than the Wiis own). Each of these either match or outclass the best the Wii offers.

I have those games apart from monster hunter. Still not as good. Part of it is the lack of AA, really ruins it.

Darth_DuMas

Like I said, you should probably go back and play them.

I own both consoles and a ton of games for each.

I am sure.

Well, it's not like I can post screenshots of these old games, but either you're being biased or it's been a long time since you've played those xbox games and they look much better in your memory than they do in reality. Which is why I said, "maybe you should go *back* and play them."

For the record Conker Live and reloaded is the only the game that surpasses anything on the *Gamecube* let alone the Wii.

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nameless12345

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#100 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] And theoretical potential is meaningless in practice.ohthemanatee

Theoretical potential is an ideal to which the devs should aim for.

by that logic the Sega saturn outshines the PS1 in 3D graphics

...now show me a saturn game that outshines all PS1 games

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUe9ASlu9Us

Yeah, not a finished game but the Saturn had the edge in CPU power.